10 ms·

Theranos Faces Growing Number of Lawsuits Over Blood Tests

84 points by ucha 10y ago

Overtonwindow 10y ago
tl;dr: Patients and investors are pissed, and so they're suing for fraud.
partycoder 10y ago
Most software companies have a Theranos-like business model, ship broken stuff on purpose for profit. It worked great until someone thought it was a great idea to do it with technology used to provide medical treatment to human beings.
- TillE 10y ago
  It's also unwise when your concept probably isn't even theoretically possible. You can definitely bite off more than you can chew with software, but most problems are actually solvable.
  - duaneb 10y ago
    > It's also unwise when your concept probably isn't even theoretically possible. If the concept is easier and cheaper blood tests, I think we can solve that. If the concept is testing with a given volume of arbitrary blood, you've dug yourself your own grave.
    - petra 10y ago
      >> easier and cheaper blood tests, Cheaper isn't enough to drive enough demand against the competition, because of insurance. So they got pushed towards easier, i.e. no pain finger prick, which was their downfall.
    - gnipgnip 10y ago
      I'm not familiar with medicine; was this not known in the field ? Surely a student from Stanford, who I hear was also doing research at NUS, should have had access to enough advisers who could've averred that to her (before the company took off) ?
      - maverick_iceman 10y ago
        A lot of her professors in Stanford told her that her vision is not possible. Of course she didn't listen to them.
  - partycoder 10y ago
    How companies see themselves: Disruptive next-gen mobile VR social network startup powered by serverless machine learning and blockchains implemented by engineers/adept hikers fed exclusively with gluten free organic kale/tofu/quinoa salads and kombucha. What they really are: Death march ran by Steve Jobs' cultists/buzzword collectors solving problems that nobody has in a way they don't really understand implemented by overworked depressed people that drink themselves into oblivion to cope with technical debt.
- Fomite 10y ago
  "Move fast and break things" works well until one of those "things" is grandma.
- return0 10y ago
  Even in the software world, at least the product "basically" works. In this case even the basic product didnt work.
- SEJeff 10y ago
  And when most software companies break things people don't die or get misdiagnosed and then die! This is very different.
  - partycoder 10y ago
    https://youtu.be/aRrDsbUdY_k?t=5m23s https://youtu.be/aRrDsbUdY_k?t=5m23s http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/20/3363914/wrong-turn-apple-ios-6-maps-phone-5-buggy-complaints http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/20/3363914/wrong-turn-apple-i... http://www.dailytech.com/Lockheeds+F22+Raptor+Gets+Zapped+by+International+Date+Line/article6225.htm http://www.dailytech.com/Lockheeds+F22+Raptor+Gets+Zapped+by... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter
    - striking 10y ago
      The first one isn't a product that can be sold but rather a systemic failure. The rest of them didn't kill anyone. iOS 6 Maps was definitely a pretty big mistake, but Google Maps was available the majority of the time it was broken. I guess I can let you have that one, since it was pretty appallingly bad and because not everyone knew you could download the actually good Maps app. The next two examples were unfortunate mistakes where a tiny bug caused a massive failure, and these things happen sometimes. They didn't ship a broken product, just a product with a worse-than-expected bug. I feel like that's understandable when your target platform is a damned jet airplane or ship, and your underlying platform is some complicated 35 "Intel i960" mess running Ada[1] or 27 Pentium Pro computers all running Windows NT 4.0.[2] I'm not sure what you expected. And yes, the loss of the Mars Orbiter was awful, and yes the error was noticed by two different people who said something about it.[3] I think this might be the most applicable scenario to your point, where a broken product was shipped broken on purpose because of stupid time pressure. Two of five isn't too bad, but it hardly shows a pattern of shipping broken stuff for profit. Sometimes people want profit, but many times people make mistakes. 1: http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/print/volume-12/issue-5/news/f-22-avionics-designers-rely-on-obsolescent-electronics-but-plan-for-future-upgrades.html http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/print/volume-12/is..., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i960 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i960 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)#Smart_ship_testbed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)#Smart_shi... 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- erikb 10y ago
  I think they are not the only ones who provide broken medical technology. It sks but that is how most businesses work. Overpromising and underdelivering. But the ones that get attacked get attacked because they made too many enemies. In some regards they are actually the ones who tried the most to actually change something, thereby commiting themselves too much to attack.
hockeybias 10y ago
bye bye
thinkcomp 10y ago
Dockets: http://www.plainsite.org/profiles/theranos-inc/ http://www.plainsite.org/profiles/theranos-inc/ http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/304bu4iy6/arizona-district-court/toy-v-theranos-incorporated-et-al/ http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/304bu4iy6/arizona-district-...
Mz 10y ago
I really think the underlying problem is that she was a pretty young woman and this prevented her from getting the kind of reality check she should have gotten much earlier. I am a woman and I find that men either won't really engage me at all or they want to, I don't know, be nice? Be encouraging? I know it is always challenging to get good constructive feedback, but I think charming, pretty women more often than others either get no feedback or get gushed at. I have a tendency to get treated by people like I am their best friend or something and it often weirds me out and fairly often leads to uncomfortable and problematic situations. I have spent a lot of years trying to find a solution to this. I am kind of glad to see this company being reigned in, but I find it sad to watch what happens with Ms. Holmes, who probably believed and probably still believes the hype about herself. I think she still is failing to get the memo she needs to get and it is kind of tragic. She was essentially a child when she started this. Her elders and so-called advisors -- all brilliant men, it seems -- should have pulled her up short a long, long time ago. Instead, she is being dragged through this bloody mess. It's a hard thing to watch, in part because I am so glad to see this vaporware company called on its BS, but at the same time I am generally inclined to be compassionate and I just feel someone -- probably many someone's -- failed in their duty (edit: To Ms. Holmes, a young kid with a dream) long ago and for a long time. It should have never gone this far.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
  - Mz 10y ago
    From what I have read, she spent like a decade "building" this company before making any effort to release a product. She dropped out of Stanford and has been hailed as a genius while failing to launch and when she did finally launch, this is the result. Meanwhile, she has apparently been backed for a very, very long time by such luminaries as Henry Kissinger and former US senator and presidential candidate Sam Nunn: https://www.theranos.com/leadership/counselors https://www.theranos.com/leadership/counselors So, some pretty girl had former serious VIPs on the world stage patting her on the head and saying "You go, girl!" while she had no product. And we wonder why it became such a huge mess. She was like 19 or 20 when she dreamed this up. I don't know how long she has had their backing, but that is heady stuff for almost anyone, of any age. If she had it in her early twenties, good luck reigning in her insane ego and getting her to see reality. Her reality is that she can get the backing of people like that. Many people are very "la la la, not listening -- don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up." If they can get social proof that they are awesome, it gets far, far worse. And being backed by people like that is very strong social proof. So, in my opinion, they had an obligation to also put the brakes on and demand real proof while patting her on the head and fueling the growth of her enormous ego. Is it any wonder she has such an enormous ego given those experiences?
wtvanhest 10y ago
Some of you may remember this article and these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10252183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10252183 When I read this, I immediately thought it was a red flag. So far, I have never heard of a founder/employee who successfully executes without sleeping or idolizing a mythical version of Steve jobs. I have a feeling that this is a clear pattern. Founders who claim not to need to sleep / date / etc. have major problems with their business.
- nostromo 10y ago
  As with all self-reported claims, take it with a grain of salt. Among my own entrepreneurial friends, I often notice a difference between self-reported hours worked and actual hours worked. I also notice a strong under-representation of hours slept, as if not getting enough sleep is the key to becoming an ubermensch. These aren't even dishonest people. I think there's just a lot of peer pressure in tech to brag about how much you work.
  - wtvanhest 10y ago
    The self-reported lack of sleep is a pretty good indicator that the ceo/worker is focused on the wrong thing. Self reporting is probably a stronger signal than actually knowing how much they sleep!
  - noam87 10y ago
    This. I can produce code for 4-5 hours a day, and my dumb face generally fills up a large percentage of the ticketing system's "done" column. Sure, there are emergency situations when a 14 hour shift is needed, but keep that up for long, and you and your project will suffer the consequences (found that out the hard way just recently). Has anyone here worked at a place where developers truly spend a 10 hours a day coding at full productivity? More likely they're lying to themselves: either they spend an inordinate amount of time at the water-cooler, or they're so slogged down can't remember what being productive feels like anymore. I also find that most days, by the time I've sat down to write a feature, I've already fleshed out how I'm going to implement it. A lot of the "work" happens in the shower, or while doing groceries, or while biking around the city. Then once a day I turn on my computer, bang out my solutions, do some code reviews, and turn that ungodly glowing screen right the hell back off. Not that it means spending the rest of the day idle... not working oneself to oblivion means time and energy left over for learning new things, doing math puzzles, playing with interesting technologies, reading, or simply relaxing and letting one's brain have some defrag time while staring at the ceiling. Many of the most useful patterns I've used to solve tough problems I only learned because I was playing with subjects wholly unrelated to my work. I can't imagine this not being true for everyone. I believe G.H Hardy said in "A Mathematician's Apology" that any more than 4 hours of mathematics a day was counterproductive. (As with everything: YMMV. But for me this holds true.)
mikeryan 10y ago
I have no inside knowledge but at this point it doesn't seem that Theranos has any real assets outside of whatever hard assets and cash they've still got from their funding? At what point do you just throw in the towel, declare bankruptcy and try to make your creditors and investors as whole as possible. The buzzards are circling on this one.
tenpies 10y ago
It's interesting that in the midst of all this, Holmes is carving out time to host a Hillary fundraiser[1]. I almost wonder if we'll see the government/military magically acquire her company at a pre-scandal valuation in a couple of months. --- [1] http://www.recode.net/2016/3/14/11586966/theranos-ceo-elizabeth-holmes-is-holding-a-hillary-fundraiser-with http://www.recode.net/2016/3/14/11586966/theranos-ceo-elizab...
- SmokyBorbon 10y ago
  Only thing that can save her is a presidential pardon.
- simplemath 10y ago
  How exactly is that interesting, or relevant?
  - bduerst 10y ago
    It's not, but it's election season and certain voters like to wax-vitriol about opposing candidates.
- apsec112 10y ago
  Not going to happen. Bureaucrats aren't CEOs, they can't just unilaterally spend billions of dollars. The money would have to be appropriated by Congress, and the chance of Congress doing that in the current environment is about 0%. Whoever sponsored the bill would get raked over the coals for years.
  - cylinder 10y ago
    Didn't DoE give a loan to a solar startup?
- trhway 10y ago
  >I almost wonder if we'll see the government/military magically acquire her company at a pre-scandal valuation in a couple of months. no chance. They already tried to sell the tech to DOD in 2012 and that failed spectacularly in the best style of "Pentagon Wars". https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/internal-emails-reveal-concerns-about-theranoss-fda-compliance-date-back-years/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/inter... As i see it it was the beginning of the end as it seems to me that it was the only real business plan they had and it failing forced them to pivot to try to produce at least something for consumer market. Btw, the 4 star Marines general they have on the board is the one who was using his position back then to push the deal through.
agumonkey 10y ago
Are other medical startups having troubles because the science is inherently hard or is it really because Theranos did some "mistakes" ?
jimmywanger 10y ago
I'm reminded of the cargo cult mentality. Just because you act like Steve Jobs and have the same fashion sense and sense of secrecy, doesn't mean you can build another Apple. It almost feels as though she was more focused on her image as an important CEO and a female pioneering a role in tech than, you know, actually building the tech and company itself.
- lobster_johnson 10y ago
  Agreed — if you read the great Vanity Fair article [1] about Theranos, one thing that becomes apparent is that Holmes's public statements were classic sales hubris; she was publicly announcing rollouts of technology that didn't work yet, and her scientists were learning about the plans after the fact. It's possible that she genuinely believed her own hype — her surprised reaction to the FDA shutting them down seems to indicate this. [1] http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-exclusive http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/elizabeth-holmes-ther...
- rhino369 10y ago
  Investors seemed to reward the veneer of success more than looking at the fundamentals.
dannylandau 10y ago
Is there a real chance she might be criminally charged, and end up in prison?
desireco42 10y ago
Here is naive question: The problem Theranos is solving can't be that difficult, you just need to take smaller amounts of blood and automate testing. Is anyone else doing this? Seems very promising area. I see that Theranos is facing crazy obstacles to make things work, not 100% sure why can't they produce something instead of nothing.
- lokedhs 10y ago
  Statistics stops you. Blood testing is all about statistics. You measure a certain number of things in the blood test, which gives you an idea of how much of the thing you're looking for is in the blood. Some of these things (bacteria, virus, etc) only needs to be in the blood in very low concentrations to be harmful, and to get a good reading you need a larger sample.

84 points by ucha 10y ago

tl;dr: Patients and investors are pissed, and so they're suing for fraud.

Most software companies have a Theranos-like business model, ship broken stuff on purpose for profit. It worked great until someone thought it was a great idea to do it with technology used to provide medical treatment to human beings.

TillE 10y ago
It's also unwise when your concept probably isn't even theoretically possible. You can definitely bite off more than you can chew with software, but most problems are actually solvable.
- duaneb 10y ago
  > It's also unwise when your concept probably isn't even theoretically possible. If the concept is easier and cheaper blood tests, I think we can solve that. If the concept is testing with a given volume of arbitrary blood, you've dug yourself your own grave.
  - petra 10y ago
    >> easier and cheaper blood tests, Cheaper isn't enough to drive enough demand against the competition, because of insurance. So they got pushed towards easier, i.e. no pain finger prick, which was their downfall.
  - gnipgnip 10y ago
    I'm not familiar with medicine; was this not known in the field ? Surely a student from Stanford, who I hear was also doing research at NUS, should have had access to enough advisers who could've averred that to her (before the company took off) ?
    - maverick_iceman 10y ago
      A lot of her professors in Stanford told her that her vision is not possible. Of course she didn't listen to them.
- partycoder 10y ago
  How companies see themselves: Disruptive next-gen mobile VR social network startup powered by serverless machine learning and blockchains implemented by engineers/adept hikers fed exclusively with gluten free organic kale/tofu/quinoa salads and kombucha. What they really are: Death march ran by Steve Jobs' cultists/buzzword collectors solving problems that nobody has in a way they don't really understand implemented by overworked depressed people that drink themselves into oblivion to cope with technical debt.
Fomite 10y ago
"Move fast and break things" works well until one of those "things" is grandma.
return0 10y ago
Even in the software world, at least the product "basically" works. In this case even the basic product didnt work.
SEJeff 10y ago
And when most software companies break things people don't die or get misdiagnosed and then die! This is very different.
- partycoder 10y ago
  https://youtu.be/aRrDsbUdY_k?t=5m23s https://youtu.be/aRrDsbUdY_k?t=5m23s http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/20/3363914/wrong-turn-apple-ios-6-maps-phone-5-buggy-complaints http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/20/3363914/wrong-turn-apple-i... http://www.dailytech.com/Lockheeds+F22+Raptor+Gets+Zapped+by+International+Date+Line/article6225.htm http://www.dailytech.com/Lockheeds+F22+Raptor+Gets+Zapped+by... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter
  - striking 10y ago
    The first one isn't a product that can be sold but rather a systemic failure. The rest of them didn't kill anyone. iOS 6 Maps was definitely a pretty big mistake, but Google Maps was available the majority of the time it was broken. I guess I can let you have that one, since it was pretty appallingly bad and because not everyone knew you could download the actually good Maps app. The next two examples were unfortunate mistakes where a tiny bug caused a massive failure, and these things happen sometimes. They didn't ship a broken product, just a product with a worse-than-expected bug. I feel like that's understandable when your target platform is a damned jet airplane or ship, and your underlying platform is some complicated 35 "Intel i960" mess running Ada[1] or 27 Pentium Pro computers all running Windows NT 4.0.[2] I'm not sure what you expected. And yes, the loss of the Mars Orbiter was awful, and yes the error was noticed by two different people who said something about it.[3] I think this might be the most applicable scenario to your point, where a broken product was shipped broken on purpose because of stupid time pressure. Two of five isn't too bad, but it hardly shows a pattern of shipping broken stuff for profit. Sometimes people want profit, but many times people make mistakes. 1: http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/print/volume-12/issue-5/news/f-22-avionics-designers-rely-on-obsolescent-electronics-but-plan-for-future-upgrades.html http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articles/print/volume-12/is..., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i960 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_i960 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)#Smart_ship_testbed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)#Smart_shi... 3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
erikb 10y ago
I think they are not the only ones who provide broken medical technology. It sks but that is how most businesses work. Overpromising and underdelivering. But the ones that get attacked get attacked because they made too many enemies. In some regards they are actually the ones who tried the most to actually change something, thereby commiting themselves too much to attack.

hockeybias 10y ago

bye bye

thinkcomp 10y ago

Dockets: http://www.plainsite.org/profiles/theranos-inc/ http://www.plainsite.org/profiles/theranos-inc/ http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/304bu4iy6/arizona-district-court/toy-v-theranos-incorporated-et-al/ http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/304bu4iy6/arizona-district-...

Mz 10y ago

I really think the underlying problem is that she was a pretty young woman and this prevented her from getting the kind of reality check she should have gotten much earlier. I am a woman and I find that men either won't really engage me at all or they want to, I don't know, be nice? Be encouraging? I know it is always challenging to get good constructive feedback, but I think charming, pretty women more often than others either get no feedback or get gushed at. I have a tendency to get treated by people like I am their best friend or something and it often weirds me out and fairly often leads to uncomfortable and problematic situations. I have spent a lot of years trying to find a solution to this. I am kind of glad to see this company being reigned in, but I find it sad to watch what happens with Ms. Holmes, who probably believed and probably still believes the hype about herself. I think she still is failing to get the memo she needs to get and it is kind of tragic. She was essentially a child when she started this. Her elders and so-called advisors -- all brilliant men, it seems -- should have pulled her up short a long, long time ago. Instead, she is being dragged through this bloody mess. It's a hard thing to watch, in part because I am so glad to see this vaporware company called on its BS, but at the same time I am generally inclined to be compassionate and I just feel someone -- probably many someone's -- failed in their duty (edit: To Ms. Holmes, a young kid with a dream) long ago and for a long time. It should have never gone this far.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
- Mz 10y ago
  From what I have read, she spent like a decade "building" this company before making any effort to release a product. She dropped out of Stanford and has been hailed as a genius while failing to launch and when she did finally launch, this is the result. Meanwhile, she has apparently been backed for a very, very long time by such luminaries as Henry Kissinger and former US senator and presidential candidate Sam Nunn: https://www.theranos.com/leadership/counselors https://www.theranos.com/leadership/counselors So, some pretty girl had former serious VIPs on the world stage patting her on the head and saying "You go, girl!" while she had no product. And we wonder why it became such a huge mess. She was like 19 or 20 when she dreamed this up. I don't know how long she has had their backing, but that is heady stuff for almost anyone, of any age. If she had it in her early twenties, good luck reigning in her insane ego and getting her to see reality. Her reality is that she can get the backing of people like that. Many people are very "la la la, not listening -- don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up." If they can get social proof that they are awesome, it gets far, far worse. And being backed by people like that is very strong social proof. So, in my opinion, they had an obligation to also put the brakes on and demand real proof while patting her on the head and fueling the growth of her enormous ego. Is it any wonder she has such an enormous ego given those experiences?

wtvanhest 10y ago

Some of you may remember this article and these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10252183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10252183 When I read this, I immediately thought it was a red flag. So far, I have never heard of a founder/employee who successfully executes without sleeping or idolizing a mythical version of Steve jobs. I have a feeling that this is a clear pattern. Founders who claim not to need to sleep / date / etc. have major problems with their business.

nostromo 10y ago
As with all self-reported claims, take it with a grain of salt. Among my own entrepreneurial friends, I often notice a difference between self-reported hours worked and actual hours worked. I also notice a strong under-representation of hours slept, as if not getting enough sleep is the key to becoming an ubermensch. These aren't even dishonest people. I think there's just a lot of peer pressure in tech to brag about how much you work.
- wtvanhest 10y ago
  The self-reported lack of sleep is a pretty good indicator that the ceo/worker is focused on the wrong thing. Self reporting is probably a stronger signal than actually knowing how much they sleep!
- noam87 10y ago
  This. I can produce code for 4-5 hours a day, and my dumb face generally fills up a large percentage of the ticketing system's "done" column. Sure, there are emergency situations when a 14 hour shift is needed, but keep that up for long, and you and your project will suffer the consequences (found that out the hard way just recently). Has anyone here worked at a place where developers truly spend a 10 hours a day coding at full productivity? More likely they're lying to themselves: either they spend an inordinate amount of time at the water-cooler, or they're so slogged down can't remember what being productive feels like anymore. I also find that most days, by the time I've sat down to write a feature, I've already fleshed out how I'm going to implement it. A lot of the "work" happens in the shower, or while doing groceries, or while biking around the city. Then once a day I turn on my computer, bang out my solutions, do some code reviews, and turn that ungodly glowing screen right the hell back off. Not that it means spending the rest of the day idle... not working oneself to oblivion means time and energy left over for learning new things, doing math puzzles, playing with interesting technologies, reading, or simply relaxing and letting one's brain have some defrag time while staring at the ceiling. Many of the most useful patterns I've used to solve tough problems I only learned because I was playing with subjects wholly unrelated to my work. I can't imagine this not being true for everyone. I believe G.H Hardy said in "A Mathematician's Apology" that any more than 4 hours of mathematics a day was counterproductive. (As with everything: YMMV. But for me this holds true.)

mikeryan 10y ago

I have no inside knowledge but at this point it doesn't seem that Theranos has any real assets outside of whatever hard assets and cash they've still got from their funding? At what point do you just throw in the towel, declare bankruptcy and try to make your creditors and investors as whole as possible. The buzzards are circling on this one.

tenpies 10y ago

It's interesting that in the midst of all this, Holmes is carving out time to host a Hillary fundraiser[1]. I almost wonder if we'll see the government/military magically acquire her company at a pre-scandal valuation in a couple of months. --- [1] http://www.recode.net/2016/3/14/11586966/theranos-ceo-elizabeth-holmes-is-holding-a-hillary-fundraiser-with http://www.recode.net/2016/3/14/11586966/theranos-ceo-elizab...

SmokyBorbon 10y ago
Only thing that can save her is a presidential pardon.
simplemath 10y ago
How exactly is that interesting, or relevant?
- bduerst 10y ago
  It's not, but it's election season and certain voters like to wax-vitriol about opposing candidates.
apsec112 10y ago
Not going to happen. Bureaucrats aren't CEOs, they can't just unilaterally spend billions of dollars. The money would have to be appropriated by Congress, and the chance of Congress doing that in the current environment is about 0%. Whoever sponsored the bill would get raked over the coals for years.
- cylinder 10y ago
  Didn't DoE give a loan to a solar startup?
trhway 10y ago
>I almost wonder if we'll see the government/military magically acquire her company at a pre-scandal valuation in a couple of months. no chance. They already tried to sell the tech to DOD in 2012 and that failed spectacularly in the best style of "Pentagon Wars". https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/internal-emails-reveal-concerns-about-theranoss-fda-compliance-date-back-years/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/inter... As i see it it was the beginning of the end as it seems to me that it was the only real business plan they had and it failing forced them to pivot to try to produce at least something for consumer market. Btw, the 4 star Marines general they have on the board is the one who was using his position back then to push the deal through.

agumonkey 10y ago

Are other medical startups having troubles because the science is inherently hard or is it really because Theranos did some "mistakes" ?

jimmywanger 10y ago

I'm reminded of the cargo cult mentality. Just because you act like Steve Jobs and have the same fashion sense and sense of secrecy, doesn't mean you can build another Apple. It almost feels as though she was more focused on her image as an important CEO and a female pioneering a role in tech than, you know, actually building the tech and company itself.

lobster_johnson 10y ago
Agreed — if you read the great Vanity Fair article [1] about Theranos, one thing that becomes apparent is that Holmes's public statements were classic sales hubris; she was publicly announcing rollouts of technology that didn't work yet, and her scientists were learning about the plans after the fact. It's possible that she genuinely believed her own hype — her surprised reaction to the FDA shutting them down seems to indicate this. [1] http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-exclusive http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/elizabeth-holmes-ther...
rhino369 10y ago
Investors seemed to reward the veneer of success more than looking at the fundamentals.

dannylandau 10y ago

Is there a real chance she might be criminally charged, and end up in prison?

desireco42 10y ago

Here is naive question: The problem Theranos is solving can't be that difficult, you just need to take smaller amounts of blood and automate testing. Is anyone else doing this? Seems very promising area. I see that Theranos is facing crazy obstacles to make things work, not 100% sure why can't they produce something instead of nothing.

lokedhs 10y ago
Statistics stops you. Blood testing is all about statistics. You measure a certain number of things in the blood test, which gives you an idea of how much of the thing you're looking for is in the blood. Some of these things (bacteria, virus, etc) only needs to be in the blood in very low concentrations to be harmful, and to get a good reading you need a larger sample.