6 ms·
Kinda puts it in perspective how weird it is that companies have so much control over how software is distributed and sold these days. This would never have ha
by davesque 10y ago
Kinda puts it in perspective how weird it is that companies have so much control over how software is distributed and sold these days. This would never have happened a decade ago.
- zymhan 10y agoWe also weren't using as many walled-garden devices and ecosystems a decade ago. There are certainly a lot of issues with the app store model. But using a service like download.com was also rife with issues.
- 1_2__3 10y agoAnd having lived through that, and now lived through the walled garden/App Store experience, I'll say with confidence the old way was better.
- blktiger 10y agoBetter for you maybe, but not better for the average user who ended up with malware infecting their systems left and right because they weren't technical enough to avoid it.
- givinguflac 10y agoExactly. I have personally been on the receiving end of plenty of phone calls from users who had no idea they couldn't necessarily trust an application downloaded from a 3rd party site. "But it's the same application!" Sure it is, but who knows what else you're getting, even if it's as 'benign' as shitty toolbars. Has no one ever seen a parent/grandparents nightmare of toolbar hell in a browser window?
- izacus 10y agoWe did. And somehow the computer revolution still happened even though people actually had to learn a bit about how their tools worked. Meanwhile in that crazy wild west the whole OSS infrastructure powering the most important global computer network was born. Tools, operating systems and software that isn't allowed to exist in app stores because they might be "dangerous" to the average user (whoever that is).
- icebraining 10y agopeople actually had to learn a bit about how their tools worked. They didn't, though; they just muddled through and asked their friends or some tech support service to reinstall Windows occasionally, when the viruses, adware and other crap made the computer too slow, or when the ramsomware encrypted all their files.
- xg15 10y agoThen we should either: a) Educate users and give them more knowledge and better tools to easily protect themselves or b) Have app-stores organized in such a way that user interests and legitimate security concerns are not conflated with commercial interests of the platform owners as it's currently the case. Either treat app stores as a public utility with rights and regulations or require all devices to support competing stores.
- SunShiranui 10y agoYou don't necessarily need a walled garden to solve that problem - package managers on Linux distribution do the same. It needs the appropriate user experience for non-technical users.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ixtli 10y agoThis is an excellent example: all of those less "walled gardens" ended up a mess of malware and abusive advertising. It's a pretty clear trade-off so far as I can tell.
- maxerickson 10y agoI get a headache every time I look at an app store. Google Play is full of crap, Apple's app store has plenty of low value apps, the Windows 10 App store sucks, etc, etc, etc. They've improved user security, but the amount of garbage to sift through is terrible.
- kefka 10y agoI think the following is a good way to do an "App Store": http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ And companies, individuals, non-profits, and others are all allowed to run their own repos, or mirror these.
- ixtli 10y agoTo be honest I think the chrome extension storefront(?) is pretty decent as well. It's just a matter of curation from the point they've got it at. The reality is that the average user _wants_ a barrier to entry: no one likes what download.com or sourceforge have become.
- weaksauce 10y agoMozilla now, and not sure how long it's been doing this, does code review on all submitted extensions to their extension marketplace. Google chrome's store is less restrictive as they don't do any review of it but rely on user reports to find violations of TOU/malicious activity. Similar approaches to the apple app store vs. android store... up front binary check from apple vs. a permissive store with user reports being the primary thing that pulls apps from circulation.
- mikestew 10y ago
- ungzd 10y agoDownload.com was no more than SEO junk site, no one really needed it.
- codazoda 10y agoIt was more than that, originally, it just degraded over time. They also bought up all the good competitors (softseek anyone?) and then killed them off.
- Quenz 10y agoWhat things like apt-get?
- __jal 10y agoYep. That was, best I can tell, the original "app store". Also, still the best implementation.
- paulcole 10y agoAs a consumer, I love the walled garden. I can trust things will work more or less as advertised and that I'll have financial recourse if they don't.
- jshevek 10y agoWhat you trust is the app store manager. The entire ecosystem doesn't need to be walled off in order to achieve that.
- the8472 10y agoA curated app-store should not be considered synonymous with walled garden. android allows side-loading. windows has "install.exe", the microsoft store and steam co-existing side-by-side. linux distros have their package managers, container images and `curl ... | sudo bash`. Anyone who argues that all users must be herded into a walled garden in the name of security and alternatives are not acceptable is essentially advocating a digital nanny state.
- monksy 10y ago> `curl ... | sudo bash`. That is the herpes of the Linux world. That is one of the worse things that someone can suggest to install something.
- the8472 10y agoYou missed the essence of my argument. The curl approach serves as an example of some less trustworthy, unvetted ways of installing software, similar to downloading an installer or apk from some random website. Is it a bad idea? Maybe, especially if you're not technically versed. Does that mean we should take everyone's freedom to make their own choices. "because we know what's best for you"? I don't think so. I believe that most non-technical users are self-aware enough that they stick to curated app-stores of their own volition.
- RIMR 10y agoWhy can't we just have the equivalent of APT for mobile devices?
- viraptor 10y agoWe did. On N900, but the hardware was bulky and then Nokia stopped being Nokia.
- zymhan 10y agoThat's actually pretty much what Cydia for iOS is.
- Natanael_L 10y agoF-Droid?
- api 10y agoToday's non-geek has two choices: walled garden or malware cesspool.
- logfromblammo 10y agoThird choice: buy advice/services from an expert with similarly aligned interests. If the walled gardens charge 50% on top of the manufacturer's price (or 33% what the customer pays), there is plenty of room to undercut there.
- mhurron 10y ago> buy advice/services from an expert with similarly aligned interests. For most people, that's probably the walled gardens that people not on HN don't complain about.
- logfromblammo 10y agoNo, the walled garden is the walled garden. The expert consultant is often a relative or favorite blogger or golfing buddy or corporate IT person. How many of us have set up a clueless person's computer? We give them a restricted user account, so they can't install 500 random spyware/adware toolbars. We change the IE/Edge shortcut to open Firefox instead. We install ad-blockers and script-blockers with an overly generous whitelist. Maybe we even install Linux with remote admin, and automatic updates, and just slap on a wm that looks vaguely like Windows. Their expert is us, or people like us, and our services are not always bought with spendable currency. I don't always enjoy being that expert, or getting paid for it in cookies and ugly sweaters. And in that situation, the walled garden is great. We can all roll our clueless friends up in carpets and dump them over the wall, where they can stumble around all day without getting hurt. But some people can actually make a business out of it. They do exist. And some of them won't shamelessly price-gouge their clueless customers.
- izacus 10y agoThe difference is, that that user can turn off the walled garden if they will. That user can also choose what it wants inside the garden instead of being told what he can use by someone from California which may or may not share the values or culture.
- erikpukinskis 10y agoA decade ago there were many more, much higher hurdles to software distribution. This developer's woes are nothing compared to the challenges to getting shrink-wrapped software in boxes, getting people to download and install an executable, or god forbid getting a mobile app onto one of the mobile carrier's app stores,
- beamatronic 10y agoNot on Palm OS. Check out the old Treo phones. Touch screen, camera, SD slot, full keyboard, free and open API for app development.
- mozumder 10y ago> This would never have happened a decade ago. Happened 30 years ago with Nintendo.