8 ms·

So interestingly, hiding you star in a Dyson sphere, turns it into the loudest beacon in the galaxy, for a while. If we wanted to be 'found' by aliens, we shou

by neals 10y ago

So interestingly, hiding you star in a Dyson sphere, turns it into the loudest beacon in the galaxy, for a while. If we wanted to be 'found' by aliens, we should do this to our sun.

jerry40 10y ago
Also we can use this as a trap. Just choose a star, make it darker and wait.
- drzaiusapelord 10y ago
  A trap for what exactly? By the time your society can do this to a star, you're not exactly fighting others for resources. You're very much into post-scarcity territory and the traditional motivations for conflict are long gone. I never understood the scarcity mentality we apply to hypothetical super-advanced civilizations. This is like expecting Jesus to take your wallet or the Buddha to kick you down the stairs. If there are other advanced societies out there I seriously doubt war is their main motivator in space exploration, the same way Voyager and Curiosity are unarmed. Sure, that makes for fun sci-fi stories, but real life is governed by fairly simplistic game theory rules, at least from a high-level perspective. The motivators we have been given through evolution will be the motivators they have as well. Unless we're dismissing evolution as only a local phenomenon, we should expect similar beings to ourselves. I think the 'hostile alien' scenario shouldn't be our default. Sadly, that approach sells ad impressions and schlocky futurist books and influences a lot of people to believe things that are pretty questionable. If we discovered a primitive species in the European seas we'd be tripping over ourselves to preserve them and study them and to make sure they never, ever get hurt by us (or a stray asteroid or anything we could prevent). We wouldn't be conquering them with robot subs for their pretty coral jewellery or sub-surface oil or whatever. We have enough pretty things and energy here on Earth and in unihabited places if need be. Life is rare enough that we don't need to attack other life for resources, assuming we ever find any.
  - thaw13579 10y ago
    Haven't atrocious things been done during "exploration" on Earth, e.g. European imperialism and colonization? I'd like to think humanity has moved past that, but there currently seem to be enough war torn areas to show otherwise...
    - Xixi 10y ago
      European imperialism and colonization was pretty much not done in a post-scarcity area: we [1] needed all these resources so we took them. There were also ideological reasons involved in colonization ("I repeat, that the superior races have a right because they have a duty. They have the duty to civilize the inferior races" [2]). Humanity still very much depends on various resources today: fossil fuels, uranium, metals, fish stocks, etc. So wars over resources still very much exist. The sense of "duty to civilize the inferior races" is also alive and maybe even stronger than ever, though expressed with less offensive words. I would expect a civilization sufficiently advanced to build a Dyson sphere to have reached some sort of sustainability with regard to resources. But what about ideology? What if they deem us barbarians that need to be civilized? [1] I'm French, hence the "we". [2] In Jules Ferry speech before the French Chamber of Deputies: http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1884ferry.asp http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1884ferry.asp
      - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
        I would argue that the political/race/religious reasons are just cultural cover for resource stealing. Example, Russia just stole Crimea because a warm weather port is a rare resource in their region and benefits their various military strategies. Everything about "history justifies it," "Ukrainian Nazis were planning on killing everyone," and "they wanted us to liberate them" is propaganda. Once you are post-scarcity, this kind of propaganda will be much less effective. It'll be more obvious its bullshit.
      - thaw13579 10y ago
        Interesting points. But while such a civilization would be energy rich, wouldn't planets in the habitable zone still be scarce? There are experiments showing a "behavioral sink" in mice when given everything needed but space. And who knows, humans could even be of interest as a "model organism" for scientifically inclined alien species... [1] http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/22514/ http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/22514/
- yuncun 10y ago
  Sounds like the plot of Pandora's Star by Peter Hamilton. (I'm not done with it yet tho, so maybe not)
  - littlegreenb18 10y ago
    You are in for a treat. Hands down my favorite sci-fi series of all time.
    - jerry40 10y ago
      You both have intrigued me. Seems that I need to read the series. Thanks!

by neals 10y ago

So interestingly, hiding you star in a Dyson sphere, turns it into the loudest beacon in the galaxy, for a while. If we wanted to be 'found' by aliens, we should do this to our sun.

jerry40 10y ago

Also we can use this as a trap. Just choose a star, make it darker and wait.

drzaiusapelord 10y ago
A trap for what exactly? By the time your society can do this to a star, you're not exactly fighting others for resources. You're very much into post-scarcity territory and the traditional motivations for conflict are long gone. I never understood the scarcity mentality we apply to hypothetical super-advanced civilizations. This is like expecting Jesus to take your wallet or the Buddha to kick you down the stairs. If there are other advanced societies out there I seriously doubt war is their main motivator in space exploration, the same way Voyager and Curiosity are unarmed. Sure, that makes for fun sci-fi stories, but real life is governed by fairly simplistic game theory rules, at least from a high-level perspective. The motivators we have been given through evolution will be the motivators they have as well. Unless we're dismissing evolution as only a local phenomenon, we should expect similar beings to ourselves. I think the 'hostile alien' scenario shouldn't be our default. Sadly, that approach sells ad impressions and schlocky futurist books and influences a lot of people to believe things that are pretty questionable. If we discovered a primitive species in the European seas we'd be tripping over ourselves to preserve them and study them and to make sure they never, ever get hurt by us (or a stray asteroid or anything we could prevent). We wouldn't be conquering them with robot subs for their pretty coral jewellery or sub-surface oil or whatever. We have enough pretty things and energy here on Earth and in unihabited places if need be. Life is rare enough that we don't need to attack other life for resources, assuming we ever find any.
- thaw13579 10y ago
  Haven't atrocious things been done during "exploration" on Earth, e.g. European imperialism and colonization? I'd like to think humanity has moved past that, but there currently seem to be enough war torn areas to show otherwise...
  - Xixi 10y ago
    European imperialism and colonization was pretty much not done in a post-scarcity area: we [1] needed all these resources so we took them. There were also ideological reasons involved in colonization ("I repeat, that the superior races have a right because they have a duty. They have the duty to civilize the inferior races" [2]). Humanity still very much depends on various resources today: fossil fuels, uranium, metals, fish stocks, etc. So wars over resources still very much exist. The sense of "duty to civilize the inferior races" is also alive and maybe even stronger than ever, though expressed with less offensive words. I would expect a civilization sufficiently advanced to build a Dyson sphere to have reached some sort of sustainability with regard to resources. But what about ideology? What if they deem us barbarians that need to be civilized? [1] I'm French, hence the "we". [2] In Jules Ferry speech before the French Chamber of Deputies: http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1884ferry.asp http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1884ferry.asp
    - drzaiusapelord 10y ago
      I would argue that the political/race/religious reasons are just cultural cover for resource stealing. Example, Russia just stole Crimea because a warm weather port is a rare resource in their region and benefits their various military strategies. Everything about "history justifies it," "Ukrainian Nazis were planning on killing everyone," and "they wanted us to liberate them" is propaganda. Once you are post-scarcity, this kind of propaganda will be much less effective. It'll be more obvious its bullshit.
    - thaw13579 10y ago
      Interesting points. But while such a civilization would be energy rich, wouldn't planets in the habitable zone still be scarce? There are experiments showing a "behavioral sink" in mice when given everything needed but space. And who knows, humans could even be of interest as a "model organism" for scientifically inclined alien species... [1] http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/22514/ http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/22514/
yuncun 10y ago
Sounds like the plot of Pandora's Star by Peter Hamilton. (I'm not done with it yet tho, so maybe not)
- littlegreenb18 10y ago
  You are in for a treat. Hands down my favorite sci-fi series of all time.
  - jerry40 10y ago
    You both have intrigued me. Seems that I need to read the series. Thanks!