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So don't use it? I'm not sure how your comments reflect on WeChat; it's not like stores are insisting on you paying through the app, or that businesses are forc

So don't use it? I'm not sure how your comments reflect on WeChat; it's not like stores are insisting on you paying through the app, or that businesses are forcing you to use WeChat to contact them. It's an added convenience, and it seems people like that.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
You can't use Didi's black car (Uber-like) service without wechat/wepay.
- joosters 10y ago
  You can pay in cash for Didi.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Only taxi, not for private cars.
amelius 10y ago
> So don't use it? That's an old argument which totally ignores the network effect.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- joosters 10y ago
  The original argument, and your reply, is also based on ignoring stuff - namely that people are using and liking these apps & services. The network effect that WeChat has is because it is popular. Would you prefer I use the other old argument, which is 'so build your own app then'? Equally frustrating and annoying, yet at the same time is probably the only other way to fight these walled garden apps. Short of banning popular apps & services that you disapprove of, I'm not sure what else there is to do...
  - catdog 10y ago
    > The original argument, and your reply, is also based on ignoring stuff - namely that people are using and liking these apps & services. The network effect that WeChat has is because it is popular. And those who don't like it or discover the downsides later (let alone that some downsides may are added later) have to bite the dust because they are locked in.
- jasonlingx 10y ago
  So persuade all your friends not to use it?
hiisukun 10y ago
I only agree in theory. In practice, many small businesses in my area only have a Facebook homepage now (and no other website). Many friends and colleagues solely organise get togethers (farewells, engagement parties, birthdays) on Facebook. There have been quite a few web services I would have tried around the place, but they only supported 'Log in with Facebook' or 'Log in with Google+' or similar. Luckily I have an understanding peer group, who will send me a message outside of Facebook to let me know when stuff is going on. Of course to them I'm spoken of as "... oh hiisukun doesn't use Facebook because of some weird nerd reasons ..." Not everyone is so lucky as me, and more importantly - there are certainly enough alternatives that I don't -really- miss that particular social network. But if I was in China on WeChat, would I feel the same way?
- joosters 10y ago
  As a facebook avoider myself, I feel your pain! But I am happy with staying away from it, the choice is always there to sign up or not. I find it strange though that people think that these messaging apps are too large and their ecosystems are becoming too powerful, and yet at the same time there seem to be far too many different messaging platforms.
  - intended 10y ago
    Well...They are that many platforms because the dominant ones are so obviously powerful and lucrative.
delegate 10y ago
I generally try to avoid these services, but it's impossible to not use some of them, because of their monopolistic position. I have to use Facebook sometimes because people use it to organise events, concerts and other things which are now inaccessible to me unless I use Facebook. Which is terrible. These services are bad because they are popular and successful and because they try to offer more and more services on top of the 'social' aspect. >it seems people like that That's exactly my point. By catering to what the masses 'like', we're slowly closing the door to the 'free Internet', replacing it with a hegemony of "social" networks, owned by big corps. And people don't just 'like' that - otherwise companies wouldn't have sales and marketing and advertising departments. They're unwitting players in complex games of chess between these companies and their value to these companies is the tendency to accept subliminal suggestions and then act on those suggestions when they make purchasing decisions. Also called advertising.
- Feuilles_Mortes 10y ago
  I'm in a similar position to you in regards to facebook. My strategy is to use custom CSS to remove the elements of the site that only serve to distract me (newsfeed, etc.). I still get notifications for events, chat, etc. so it works out alright.
  - walterbell 10y ago
    Are there example open-source stylesheets to accomplish this filtering?
    - blacksmith_tb 10y ago
      Many of the user styles (e.g. for Stylish) are purely cosmetic[1], but you can see what elements they're matching on and roll your own. 1: https://userstyles.org/styles/browse/facebook https://userstyles.org/styles/browse/facebook
- 794CD01 10y ago
  If tech people dream about a product that real people have no desire to use, is it really the consumers' fault for "liking the wrong things", or is it the inventors' fault for dreaming about a product that doesn't meet people's needs? Assuming that the rest of the world is wrong because it's moving in a direction you personally disagree with doesn't make you courageous or visionary, it makes you Principal Skinner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMqZ2PPOLik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMqZ2PPOLik

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

You can't use Didi's black car (Uber-like) service without wechat/wepay.

joosters 10y ago
You can pay in cash for Didi.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Only taxi, not for private cars.

amelius 10y ago

> So don't use it? That's an old argument which totally ignores the network effect.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
joosters 10y ago
The original argument, and your reply, is also based on ignoring stuff - namely that people are using and liking these apps & services. The network effect that WeChat has is because it is popular. Would you prefer I use the other old argument, which is 'so build your own app then'? Equally frustrating and annoying, yet at the same time is probably the only other way to fight these walled garden apps. Short of banning popular apps & services that you disapprove of, I'm not sure what else there is to do...
- catdog 10y ago
  > The original argument, and your reply, is also based on ignoring stuff - namely that people are using and liking these apps & services. The network effect that WeChat has is because it is popular. And those who don't like it or discover the downsides later (let alone that some downsides may are added later) have to bite the dust because they are locked in.
jasonlingx 10y ago
So persuade all your friends not to use it?

hiisukun 10y ago

I only agree in theory. In practice, many small businesses in my area only have a Facebook homepage now (and no other website). Many friends and colleagues solely organise get togethers (farewells, engagement parties, birthdays) on Facebook. There have been quite a few web services I would have tried around the place, but they only supported 'Log in with Facebook' or 'Log in with Google+' or similar. Luckily I have an understanding peer group, who will send me a message outside of Facebook to let me know when stuff is going on. Of course to them I'm spoken of as "... oh hiisukun doesn't use Facebook because of some weird nerd reasons ..." Not everyone is so lucky as me, and more importantly - there are certainly enough alternatives that I don't -really- miss that particular social network. But if I was in China on WeChat, would I feel the same way?

joosters 10y ago
As a facebook avoider myself, I feel your pain! But I am happy with staying away from it, the choice is always there to sign up or not. I find it strange though that people think that these messaging apps are too large and their ecosystems are becoming too powerful, and yet at the same time there seem to be far too many different messaging platforms.
- intended 10y ago
  Well...They are that many platforms because the dominant ones are so obviously powerful and lucrative.

delegate 10y ago

I generally try to avoid these services, but it's impossible to not use some of them, because of their monopolistic position. I have to use Facebook sometimes because people use it to organise events, concerts and other things which are now inaccessible to me unless I use Facebook. Which is terrible. These services are bad because they are popular and successful and because they try to offer more and more services on top of the 'social' aspect. >it seems people like that That's exactly my point. By catering to what the masses 'like', we're slowly closing the door to the 'free Internet', replacing it with a hegemony of "social" networks, owned by big corps. And people don't just 'like' that - otherwise companies wouldn't have sales and marketing and advertising departments. They're unwitting players in complex games of chess between these companies and their value to these companies is the tendency to accept subliminal suggestions and then act on those suggestions when they make purchasing decisions. Also called advertising.

Feuilles_Mortes 10y ago
I'm in a similar position to you in regards to facebook. My strategy is to use custom CSS to remove the elements of the site that only serve to distract me (newsfeed, etc.). I still get notifications for events, chat, etc. so it works out alright.
- walterbell 10y ago
  Are there example open-source stylesheets to accomplish this filtering?
  - blacksmith_tb 10y ago
    Many of the user styles (e.g. for Stylish) are purely cosmetic[1], but you can see what elements they're matching on and roll your own. 1: https://userstyles.org/styles/browse/facebook https://userstyles.org/styles/browse/facebook
794CD01 10y ago
If tech people dream about a product that real people have no desire to use, is it really the consumers' fault for "liking the wrong things", or is it the inventors' fault for dreaming about a product that doesn't meet people's needs? Assuming that the rest of the world is wrong because it's moving in a direction you personally disagree with doesn't make you courageous or visionary, it makes you Principal Skinner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMqZ2PPOLik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMqZ2PPOLik