5 ms·

Super Mario 64 – 1996 Developer Interviews

338 points by Impossible 10y ago

baconomatic 10y ago
If you're at all interested in speedruns, this is a great video that takes it to the extreme for Super Mario 64: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A
- JoshTriplett 10y ago
  That's a fairly deep technical analysis of a tool-assisted run with an unusual constraint. I'd suggest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swNX-GQt67M#t=7m30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swNX-GQt67M#t=7m30s instead, for a live speedrun race between two of the best players in the world.
  - qwtel 10y ago
    is there any explanation as to what happens in the code that makes those weird wall exploits possible?
    - JoshTriplett 10y ago
      Mario's speed was limited via "speed < MAX_SPEED", but it didn't have any boundary on negative speed. So you can build up effectively infinite negative speed by chaining long-jumps backward, without turning Mario around. Get enough (negative) speed, and the boundary checks for walls get bypassed, because you move all the way through them in one frame. You can combine that with another trick: chaining long jumps works as long as you're close enough to the ground to kick off the ground, so if you hit the jump button rapidly enough, you'll jump repeatedly without leaving the ground. Notice in the linked video that you'll hear many jumping sounds rapidly, but occasionally the player will miss the timing and do a full-height jump. That same trick also works to bypass the "infinite" staircase without having 70 stars (because you move past the looping portion in one frame). Human players can successfully use this to warp through walls and bypass star/key requirements, to complete the game with 50, 16, 1, or 0 stars. Tool-assisted speedruns also use this to move rapidly through levels, but that requires a series of frame-perfect inputs.
      - pfedak 10y ago
        To add to this, the "walking in place" animation happens when Mario's position + velocity would end up out of bounds, which the game doesn't generally permit. When the player turns and allows the speed to drop, the motion will take Mario to a valid position, and he will zoom until he gets stuck again.
    - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
      My assumption was some sort of flaw or limitation in hit detection but it would be awesome if someone who actually worked on it or similar could comment further :)
- Karunamon 10y ago
  Ph0A.. must be the parallel universe video. ..yup! I have no idea how anyone has the degree of patience and passion to put that much effort into totally breaking down a game's limitations, but it's really something else to see in practice.
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
  pannenkoek2012's videos are a fascinating insight into the implementation details of an N64 game from the perspective of a speedrunner. Every exploitable glitch reflects some aspect of how the game engine works. (There's also a secret sister channel, pannenkeok2012, for lower-effort videos. Among other things, there's a comprehensive search of the game's PRNG in there!)
corysama 10y ago
Shameless plug: We collect this kind of material over in https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/ There's also https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoGameScience https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoGameScience for more technical material. BTW: The linked site has a whole lot more articles like this one http://shmuplations.com/games/ http://shmuplations.com/games/
- wyldfire 10y ago
  Do any of the infocom games ever come up in /r/TheMakingOfGames? Looking at the page now, none happen to be there but just wondering if they have in the past.
  - corysama 10y ago
    Infocom has come up at least twice https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/search?q=infocom&restrict_sr=on https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/search?q=infocom&r... There might be more if you search for specific title names. Also, there are 2 more Infocom articles here: http://www.filfre.net/sitemap/ http://www.filfre.net/sitemap/
- agumonkey 10y ago
  Pretty cool. Subscribed x 2
dmbaggett 10y ago
>The N64 hardware has something called a Z-Buffer, and thanks to that, we were able to design the terrain and visuals however we wanted. This was a huge advantage for them. In contrast, for Crash Bandicoot -- which came out for the PS1 at the same time -- we had to use over an hour of pre-computation distributed across a dozen SGI workstations for each level to get a high poly count on hardware lacking a Z-buffer. A Z-buffer is critical, because sorting polygons is O(n^2), not O(n lg n). This is because cyclic overlap breaks the transitive property required for an N lg N sorting algorithm. The PS2 got Sony to parity; at that point both Nintendo and Sony had shipped hardware with Z-buffers.
- fuckyeah 10y ago
  Had the ps1 a dedicated chipset for 3d graphics or was it a pre-written software renderer library kind of thing? Was writting a software renderer (with perspective correct texture mapping and a zbuffer, amongst other things) out of question?
  - dmbaggett 10y ago
    Yes, a software renderer would have been far too slow. The PS1 had a 33Mhz MIPS processor.
  - zubat 10y ago
    The PS1 can be characterized as "half-software" because the geometry transforms are done through a CPU coprocessor, then sent to a mostly-2D GPU capable of filling in the gaps with affine transformations. This unusual pipeline accounts for why the rendering artifacts have a system-defining character to them - information about the geometry is lost after leaving the CPU and the GPU operates at screenspace precision, making the biggest polygons onscreen the most visibly inaccurate.
    - JonnieCache 10y ago
      Nice to have a proper explanation of why PS1 games look so weird.
pcunite 10y ago
I think the first time I played this game was with the Nemu64 emulator using a good computer and LCD monitor. The monitor alone made for a better experience than the scaly TV sets typical of the day. Also, being able to pause, save, and replay an area was nice.
- bitwize 10y ago
  I had a joystick called the Gravis Xterminator I used to play emulated N64 games. Its analog stick and button layout were similar enough to the N64 to make emulated Super Mario 64 almost as playable and enjoyable as the real thing.
intsunny 10y ago
I'll always remember the first time I saw Super Mario 64 in front of my very eyes in ToysRUS. It was as if every other 3D game in history suddenly didn't matter anymore. Here was the future of 3D gaming. Here was a game with unbelievably fluid controls in really large levels clearly designed to be explored. Unlike most previous Mario games, there was no timer either. This only further encouraged players to really explore the 3D environment, collect the side-quest coins, and not be stressed out.
- epidemian 10y ago
  Oh yes, i distinctly remember seeing commercials of Super Mario 64 on TV and being mesmerized by them. At the time, we had a Sega Genesis at home, but i had already seen some PlayStation games, and played a bit of Doom on a PC, so i already "knew" what 3D graphics were. Mario 64, however, felt like something completely new. It was like the intro to Sonic 3D Blast[1], but with infinitely higher frame rate, and not pre-rendered! [1]: https://youtu.be/oNS4_8ZX_tc https://youtu.be/oNS4_8ZX_tc Yep, not the most exciting of Sonic games by any stretch, but kids used to the Genesis graphics may had found a lot of promise for the future of 3D graphics on that now-crappy-looking intro (i know i did).
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    Plugged in an N64 a year or two back with a mate for a quick blast. After starting it we had an embarrassingly long period of cable fiddling trying to work out why it looked so... average. It turns out the the combo of screens getting way bigger and the graphics being fairly low res by modern standards was actually the issue. It's funny how even now I remember it being pixel perfect.
    - softawre 10y ago
      Heh, yup. This is why, when playing these old games via an emulator, it is so important to get the video config setup properly. You can't just stretch to 16:9, you want to play at some multiple of the original resolution (or exactly at the original resolution if you're crazy for perfect graphics).
mr_pink 10y ago
Holy crap, Super Mario 64 is 20 years old now. I've never felt my age more than I do right now...
- k__ 10y ago
  Yes, I also feel old when I hear people talk about games, that came out when I was already >18, as "classics". What is wrong with you people, these games are only 13 years old!!! ;)
  - hood_syntax 10y ago
    You shouldn't feel bad about that, some games are considered classics far sooner than 13 years. Take Half Life 2 or Bioshock for easy examples. Classic /= retro, it can mean highly influential or innovative as well.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  And I was just reading this .. https://howchoo.com/g/mti0oge5nzk/pi-cart-a-raspberry-pi-retro-gaming-rig-in-an-nes-cartridge https://howchoo.com/g/mti0oge5nzk/pi-cart-a-raspberry-pi-ret...
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Yep, i get the same thing more and more often these days...
TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
> —The way Mario’s face moves is really great too. Like in the opening scene. > Miyamoto: That actually came from a prototype for Mario Paint 3D (that we’re still going to release). I wonder, was Miyamoto referring to Mario Artist?
- MBCook 10y ago
  Yep. Mario Paint 64 was the name used during development. By the time it got released it became three titles and was released under Mario Artist.
wodenokoto 10y ago
I really loved this game and have always been sad that they didn't do a proper sequel. Reading this interview now, it sounds like they had plenty ideas for new stuff.
- BoorishBears 10y ago
  Weren't the Galaxy games the sequel?
spdustin 10y ago
Awesome interview. The other comments reminded me of this fan-made video of an Unreal Engine-powered Super Mario 64. It's stunning. https://youtu.be/VUKcSiAPJoQ https://youtu.be/VUKcSiAPJoQ Note: keep playing past 0:50 - it's not just the non-Mario environment.
- whamlastxmas 10y ago
  Worth noting that the majority of those settings are the pre-built demo environments Unreal provides. This guy is essentially just moving a Mario character inside the existing Unreal tech demos.
russellbeattie 10y ago
I should probably make an effort to finish that game someday. Not that I've finished many Super Mario games. I think I've purchased every one, but have completed maybe two of them. So many levels incomplete... I wonder if game devs feel bad working on higher levels, knowing only a tiny portion of players will actually ever see them?
racl101 10y ago
Really cool. Super Mario 64 was such an amazing game back in the day. It totally changed my life.
johnm1019 10y ago
The opening quote totally blows my mind as a humble non-game dev. I never thought of it this way. > Miyamoto: Ever since Donkey Kong, it’s been our thinking that for a game to sell, it has to excite the people who are watching the player—it has to make you want to say, “hey, gimme the controller next!” ... The simple approach is to say, "to make a great game, it should be fun for the person playing it." But they've already taken a step back and approached it from the perspective that great gaming happens socially. Maybe this is one reason I cherished all the Nintendo games as much as I did. It's because the memories of playing them are always with other people and we're all having fun. It wasn't a solo act.
Insanity 10y ago
I have fond memories of this game, and a lot of what they spoke about in the interview regarding what gamers enjoyed ringed true for me. The movement of Mario did feel great, and I had a lot of fun exploring the environment, jumping in the water for swimming or seeing how Mario's movement was different in different environments. (I did notice his centre of gravity as well, and it seems like a great fit). It is great to read that they actually had players like me in mind when they created the game. This article actually makes me want to dig up the game and play it through again.
ravenstine 10y ago
I would love to see something similar for Goldeneye/Perfect Dark. I've been slowly but surely working on building a demo FPS engine using very minimalist implementation to learn about game dynamics, and I'd love to hear what sort of technical challenges were faced at Rare and how they developed their(albeit simplistic) enemy AIs with pathfinding.

338 points by Impossible 10y ago

If you're at all interested in speedruns, this is a great video that takes it to the extreme for Super Mario 64: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpk2tdsPh0A

JoshTriplett 10y ago
That's a fairly deep technical analysis of a tool-assisted run with an unusual constraint. I'd suggest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swNX-GQt67M#t=7m30s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swNX-GQt67M#t=7m30s instead, for a live speedrun race between two of the best players in the world.
- qwtel 10y ago
  is there any explanation as to what happens in the code that makes those weird wall exploits possible?
  - JoshTriplett 10y ago
    Mario's speed was limited via "speed < MAX_SPEED", but it didn't have any boundary on negative speed. So you can build up effectively infinite negative speed by chaining long-jumps backward, without turning Mario around. Get enough (negative) speed, and the boundary checks for walls get bypassed, because you move all the way through them in one frame. You can combine that with another trick: chaining long jumps works as long as you're close enough to the ground to kick off the ground, so if you hit the jump button rapidly enough, you'll jump repeatedly without leaving the ground. Notice in the linked video that you'll hear many jumping sounds rapidly, but occasionally the player will miss the timing and do a full-height jump. That same trick also works to bypass the "infinite" staircase without having 70 stars (because you move past the looping portion in one frame). Human players can successfully use this to warp through walls and bypass star/key requirements, to complete the game with 50, 16, 1, or 0 stars. Tool-assisted speedruns also use this to move rapidly through levels, but that requires a series of frame-perfect inputs.
    - pfedak 10y ago
      To add to this, the "walking in place" animation happens when Mario's position + velocity would end up out of bounds, which the game doesn't generally permit. When the player turns and allows the speed to drop, the motion will take Mario to a valid position, and he will zoom until he gets stuck again.
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    My assumption was some sort of flaw or limitation in hit detection but it would be awesome if someone who actually worked on it or similar could comment further :)
Karunamon 10y ago
Ph0A.. must be the parallel universe video. ..yup! I have no idea how anyone has the degree of patience and passion to put that much effort into totally breaking down a game's limitations, but it's really something else to see in practice.
TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
pannenkoek2012's videos are a fascinating insight into the implementation details of an N64 game from the perspective of a speedrunner. Every exploitable glitch reflects some aspect of how the game engine works. (There's also a secret sister channel, pannenkeok2012, for lower-effort videos. Among other things, there's a comprehensive search of the game's PRNG in there!)

corysama 10y ago

Shameless plug: We collect this kind of material over in https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/ There's also https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoGameScience https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoGameScience for more technical material. BTW: The linked site has a whole lot more articles like this one http://shmuplations.com/games/ http://shmuplations.com/games/

wyldfire 10y ago
Do any of the infocom games ever come up in /r/TheMakingOfGames? Looking at the page now, none happen to be there but just wondering if they have in the past.
- corysama 10y ago
  Infocom has come up at least twice https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/search?q=infocom&restrict_sr=on https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMakingOfGames/search?q=infocom&r... There might be more if you search for specific title names. Also, there are 2 more Infocom articles here: http://www.filfre.net/sitemap/ http://www.filfre.net/sitemap/
agumonkey 10y ago
Pretty cool. Subscribed x 2

dmbaggett 10y ago

>The N64 hardware has something called a Z-Buffer, and thanks to that, we were able to design the terrain and visuals however we wanted. This was a huge advantage for them. In contrast, for Crash Bandicoot -- which came out for the PS1 at the same time -- we had to use over an hour of pre-computation distributed across a dozen SGI workstations for each level to get a high poly count on hardware lacking a Z-buffer. A Z-buffer is critical, because sorting polygons is O(n^2), not O(n lg n). This is because cyclic overlap breaks the transitive property required for an N lg N sorting algorithm. The PS2 got Sony to parity; at that point both Nintendo and Sony had shipped hardware with Z-buffers.

fuckyeah 10y ago
Had the ps1 a dedicated chipset for 3d graphics or was it a pre-written software renderer library kind of thing? Was writting a software renderer (with perspective correct texture mapping and a zbuffer, amongst other things) out of question?
- dmbaggett 10y ago
  Yes, a software renderer would have been far too slow. The PS1 had a 33Mhz MIPS processor.
- zubat 10y ago
  The PS1 can be characterized as "half-software" because the geometry transforms are done through a CPU coprocessor, then sent to a mostly-2D GPU capable of filling in the gaps with affine transformations. This unusual pipeline accounts for why the rendering artifacts have a system-defining character to them - information about the geometry is lost after leaving the CPU and the GPU operates at screenspace precision, making the biggest polygons onscreen the most visibly inaccurate.
  - JonnieCache 10y ago
    Nice to have a proper explanation of why PS1 games look so weird.

pcunite 10y ago

I think the first time I played this game was with the Nemu64 emulator using a good computer and LCD monitor. The monitor alone made for a better experience than the scaly TV sets typical of the day. Also, being able to pause, save, and replay an area was nice.

bitwize 10y ago
I had a joystick called the Gravis Xterminator I used to play emulated N64 games. Its analog stick and button layout were similar enough to the N64 to make emulated Super Mario 64 almost as playable and enjoyable as the real thing.

intsunny 10y ago

I'll always remember the first time I saw Super Mario 64 in front of my very eyes in ToysRUS. It was as if every other 3D game in history suddenly didn't matter anymore. Here was the future of 3D gaming. Here was a game with unbelievably fluid controls in really large levels clearly designed to be explored. Unlike most previous Mario games, there was no timer either. This only further encouraged players to really explore the 3D environment, collect the side-quest coins, and not be stressed out.

epidemian 10y ago
Oh yes, i distinctly remember seeing commercials of Super Mario 64 on TV and being mesmerized by them. At the time, we had a Sega Genesis at home, but i had already seen some PlayStation games, and played a bit of Doom on a PC, so i already "knew" what 3D graphics were. Mario 64, however, felt like something completely new. It was like the intro to Sonic 3D Blast[1], but with infinitely higher frame rate, and not pre-rendered! [1]: https://youtu.be/oNS4_8ZX_tc https://youtu.be/oNS4_8ZX_tc Yep, not the most exciting of Sonic games by any stretch, but kids used to the Genesis graphics may had found a lot of promise for the future of 3D graphics on that now-crappy-looking intro (i know i did).
- lostlogin 10y ago
  Plugged in an N64 a year or two back with a mate for a quick blast. After starting it we had an embarrassingly long period of cable fiddling trying to work out why it looked so... average. It turns out the the combo of screens getting way bigger and the graphics being fairly low res by modern standards was actually the issue. It's funny how even now I remember it being pixel perfect.
  - softawre 10y ago
    Heh, yup. This is why, when playing these old games via an emulator, it is so important to get the video config setup properly. You can't just stretch to 16:9, you want to play at some multiple of the original resolution (or exactly at the original resolution if you're crazy for perfect graphics).

mr_pink 10y ago

Holy crap, Super Mario 64 is 20 years old now. I've never felt my age more than I do right now...

k__ 10y ago
Yes, I also feel old when I hear people talk about games, that came out when I was already >18, as "classics". What is wrong with you people, these games are only 13 years old!!! ;)
- hood_syntax 10y ago
  You shouldn't feel bad about that, some games are considered classics far sooner than 13 years. Take Half Life 2 or Bioshock for easy examples. Classic /= retro, it can mean highly influential or innovative as well.
agumonkey 10y ago
And I was just reading this .. https://howchoo.com/g/mti0oge5nzk/pi-cart-a-raspberry-pi-retro-gaming-rig-in-an-nes-cartridge https://howchoo.com/g/mti0oge5nzk/pi-cart-a-raspberry-pi-ret...
digi_owl 10y ago
Yep, i get the same thing more and more often these days...

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago

> —The way Mario’s face moves is really great too. Like in the opening scene. > Miyamoto: That actually came from a prototype for Mario Paint 3D (that we’re still going to release). I wonder, was Miyamoto referring to Mario Artist?

MBCook 10y ago
Yep. Mario Paint 64 was the name used during development. By the time it got released it became three titles and was released under Mario Artist.

wodenokoto 10y ago

I really loved this game and have always been sad that they didn't do a proper sequel. Reading this interview now, it sounds like they had plenty ideas for new stuff.

BoorishBears 10y ago
Weren't the Galaxy games the sequel?

spdustin 10y ago

Awesome interview. The other comments reminded me of this fan-made video of an Unreal Engine-powered Super Mario 64. It's stunning. https://youtu.be/VUKcSiAPJoQ https://youtu.be/VUKcSiAPJoQ Note: keep playing past 0:50 - it's not just the non-Mario environment.

whamlastxmas 10y ago
Worth noting that the majority of those settings are the pre-built demo environments Unreal provides. This guy is essentially just moving a Mario character inside the existing Unreal tech demos.

russellbeattie 10y ago

I should probably make an effort to finish that game someday. Not that I've finished many Super Mario games. I think I've purchased every one, but have completed maybe two of them. So many levels incomplete... I wonder if game devs feel bad working on higher levels, knowing only a tiny portion of players will actually ever see them?

racl101 10y ago

Really cool. Super Mario 64 was such an amazing game back in the day. It totally changed my life.

johnm1019 10y ago

The opening quote totally blows my mind as a humble non-game dev. I never thought of it this way. > Miyamoto: Ever since Donkey Kong, it’s been our thinking that for a game to sell, it has to excite the people who are watching the player—it has to make you want to say, “hey, gimme the controller next!” ... The simple approach is to say, "to make a great game, it should be fun for the person playing it." But they've already taken a step back and approached it from the perspective that great gaming happens socially. Maybe this is one reason I cherished all the Nintendo games as much as I did. It's because the memories of playing them are always with other people and we're all having fun. It wasn't a solo act.

Insanity 10y ago

I have fond memories of this game, and a lot of what they spoke about in the interview regarding what gamers enjoyed ringed true for me. The movement of Mario did feel great, and I had a lot of fun exploring the environment, jumping in the water for swimming or seeing how Mario's movement was different in different environments. (I did notice his centre of gravity as well, and it seems like a great fit). It is great to read that they actually had players like me in mind when they created the game. This article actually makes me want to dig up the game and play it through again.

ravenstine 10y ago

I would love to see something similar for Goldeneye/Perfect Dark. I've been slowly but surely working on building a demo FPS engine using very minimalist implementation to learn about game dynamics, and I'd love to hear what sort of technical challenges were faced at Rare and how they developed their(albeit simplistic) enemy AIs with pathfinding.