7 ms·

MacOS Sierra

56 points by clumsysmurf 10y ago

iptables 10y ago
yeah don't be an idiot and install this on your work computer and break vpn. what kind of idiot does that....
- empath75 10y ago
  We got a warning from work about it.
- szastupov 10y ago
  I feel you. Had to migrate to IPSec, luckily there is a docker container that makes things a little bit easier.
- azinman2 10y ago
  what's the specific issue?
  - OhSoHumble 10y ago
    I was the idiot who made the jump. While on VPN, no less. My work laptop has both GlobalProtect and Cisco installed as VPN clients. The GlobalProtect client broke but the Cisco client works fine - both require two factor authentication. Everything seems to work so the unnecessary risk I took didn't cause too much harm.
    - azinman2 10y ago
      Ah ok so 3rd party software not yet ready for new kernel. I thought apple dropped support for pptp or something of the like, esp with the IPSec comment in the thread.
sdegutis 10y ago
This is the first version of Mac OS X that I'm 0% excited about. Literally none of the new features[1] are useful to me, considering: I don't have or want an iPhone I don't have or want an iPad I don't have or want an iWatch I don't have or want an iCloud account I don't have or want an Apple Pay account I don't have or want an iTunes Music account I don't use or need Photos.app I don't use or need Messages.app I don't like speaking to my computer I don't watch TV while doing something else on the computer I don't use the computer enough for tabs to be useful Am I really the only one who hits all these bullet points? Am I part of a dying demographic, who doesn't use/need/want any of this fancy Star Trek futuristic life, who's okay with using a credit card and organizing photos via folders, and manually typing stuff into google, and taking notes on a physical note pad with a physical pen? [1] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-sierra/id1127487414?mt=12 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-sierra/id1127487414?mt... (click "...More")
- iptables 10y ago
  yes
- kbenson 10y ago
  Well, if you use your computer as a sort of "dumb device" or single (or few) purpose instrument (typewriter, internet terminal, etc), then there's only so much innovation they are likely to make in those areas over a period of time. It's natural for them to also look at integrating with other devices and providing new functionality. Obviously not everything will interest you, and it's possible some releases will just happen to have few changes that hit the particular areas that you care about.
  - sdegutis 10y ago
    "Integrating with other devices" is not their goal. Selling desktops, laptops, monitors, phones, tablets, watches, keyboards, mice, trackpads, ear buds, and to a lesser extent subscription accounts, that's their goal. If they truly wanted to provide useful integration, they would make Android and Windows Phone devices first class citizens just as much as the iPhone. They're first and foremost a hardware company. Even their Mac's OS is free! Because they get money from the Mac, not the OS. There's plenty of useful innovations they could still make that doesn't require them to focus on up-selling me new hardware, if innovating was still their goal. They're using a Star Trek future as their marketing ploy, and it's working scarily well. I guess the one upside you could say is that they're probably not selling your data and/or profile to advertisers. So at least they have that going for them.
    - kbenson 10y ago
      > "Integrating with other devices" is not their goal. Selling desktops, laptops, monitors, phones, tablets, watches, keyboards, mice, trackpads, ear buds, and to a lesser extent subscription accounts, that's their goal. Obviously, but offering better integration (even if only with their own ecosystem) is how they are trying to sell more right now. > There's plenty of useful innovations they could still make that doesn't require them to focus on up-selling me new hardware I didn't say there weren't, just that it's not likely to advance beyond a certain level in a certain time period. This is about feedback and learning what ideas survive in the market. To their credit, Apple is fairly good at coming up with radical leaps (or, at least implementing those leaps on a mass scale)[1], but they are fairly bad IMO at listening to whether they are working out well in practice (Google has the opposite problem, they so aggressively remove failed ideas that the few people that liked them feel betrayed, and express it loudly). Throwing a few hundred million dollars right now at word processing, or the browser, or any particular thing and then ignoring it is probably not as efficient as a few tens of millions spread out over years, just because there's only so much you can do to advance a field in a short period. > I guess the one upside you could say is that they're probably not selling your data and/or profile to advertisers. So at least they have that going for them. Apple ran (runs?) their own advertising service for mobile apps, iAd. I'm not sure the status currently. That said, Google isn't selling your profile or data to advertisers. That makes zero sense for them to do, and they probably have quite a lot of safeguards to make sure absolutely the bare minimum of information about an individual an ad is served to makes it back to the advertiser (preferably nothing). This isn't because they are stalwart defenders of privacy, but because it's in their best interest to not give away the data that they make their money from. I trust them to act in their self interest.
digitalsushi 10y ago
I'm excited to see a working speech interface. I use the one on my phone quite a bit to send quick messages to my wife while I'm driving. The shortest command so far is [press siri button on dashboard] + "tell my wife to come down in 2 minutes". I wish I could tell Siri I trust it and not to confirm the message. [Are you ready to send this message?] "Yes" [Ok, I'll send it]. Every. time. On the flip side, we're past the line of scrimmage where I like my OS knowing about my files and talking to a mothership about them. I know it was probably three operating systems ago that my checksums started leaking to interested parties, "hey he has a copy of Frozen, did you know that?" In about 4 months I'll give it a try. I want to hear how the hardware reacts. I installed 10.10 the day it came out, and got bit by that flakey wifi bug for what was it, nine months before Apple fixed it? I automatically bluetooth paired with the phone when the wifi froze, did about 19 gig over LTE (which kept up!) A beautiful failure scenario. I think I might not value my privacy enough, is my lingering thought, in reflection of this being available.
- billforsternz 10y ago
  How about "Ask my wife to come down in 2 minutes"? :-)
AdamGibbins 10y ago
Careful if you're a user of Karabiner, it doesn't work in Sierra - there's a rewrite underway to correct.
- kickdaddy 10y ago
  yeah - this (and Seil) is why I am holding off for now
- mhmiles 10y ago
  Was sad to see that karabiner no longer works. I discovered that bettertouchtool can substitute for my purposes (adding media keys to a dasKeyboard)
  - guiambros 10y ago
    +1 to Bettertouchtool. I've been using it for the last year, and it is awesome. It meets all my needs of customizing a bunch of shortcuts to different apps.
  - laktak 10y ago
    AFAIK bettertouchtool is not open source, so you have to place your trust onto one individual instead of the community. Not sure I want to do that as it has access to everything I type.
    - SilentNuke 10y ago
      It being closed source doesn't mean that they are any less trustworthy or competent. Trust me, I am totally on board with what you're saying. In this case though, I'd say there would be no need for concern. The developer behind BTT and BST has established trust with their users, great communication and good support. Also, as for BetterTouchTool being able to replace Karabiner, I have to disagree. I have used both for as long as I can remember and consider them "must haves." But for me at least, they have always been separate in their use and function. I made the unfortunate mistake of upgrading to Sierra before doing a more thorough check of all my application's compatibility with Sierra. I found out about Karabiner too late - total bummer. I hope an update rolls out soon. (I haven't tried the current "interim" application they created - I need the real thing)
protomyth 10y ago
Finder is worse than 10.11 and it crashes on multiple moves. At this point I'm just not sure what the heck is the problem. Now it stops being able to do command-drags (moves) after a while.
- lj3 10y ago
  The finder never worked all that well. I stopped using it in 10.7 and switched to path finder.
jesseendahl 10y ago
The new smart card support is pretty cool: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12543905 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12543905
- rkeene2 10y ago
  Mac OS X has had smartcard support for a long time. They started removing it a few "updates" ago, but the support was still there. CACKey specifically added missing bits as Apple removed them. This latest release probably features their replacement architecture. I haven't seen what is needed to make CACKey work on the latest release of the Apple's OS since I don't use it, someone else works on packaging that up.
  - jesseendahl 10y ago
    Yep I realize it's been there, but (as you mentioned) keeping it updated has been ignored by Apple long time and turned into a community effort. Sierra brought a significant overhaul.
bigdubs 10y ago
It's 2016 and we still can't disable the acceleration curve for wired / non-trackpad mice.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  It's 2016 and you still can't disable the trackpad while typing. This drove me insane after switching to an MPB. The solution was to put the trackpad on the highest pressure setting and hope for the best.
Kadin 10y ago
Doesn't seem to be much of interest there if you're a Mac user without an interest in iOS devices. Of the WSJ's "Top 5" features [1]: - Universal Clipboard: Neat, but iOS only. Doesn't appear there's an open API for it that would make it useful elsewhere, which is too bad, because it could be rather neat. - iCloud Drive: Cloud sync of your document folders. Free space (5GB) is surprisingly limited and the upgrade pricing isn't any better than Dropbox, so not a lot of motivation to switch from Dropbox/Onedrive/Google Drive -- except for the iOS integration. It'll be interesting to see if they end up making any of the filesystem or sync logic that they're using public, so that Dropbox et al could use them (instead of Dropbox's bolt-on hack), but I'm not holding my breath. - Optimized Storage: Basically a 'feature' that automatically deletes stuff off of local storage when your disk gets full, leaving it on iCloud Drive. This basically makes my skin crawl and I can't imagine ever using it; it seems like a conceptually bad idea. Anyone want to place a bet on how long before the first article in a major news outlet about some poor soul losing everything they've ever created since the age of 5 due to this thing uploading it to the cloud, and then deleting their iCloud Drive account? I'm giving it six months on the outside. - Apple Pay: Conceptually interesting, and I'm certainly interested in anything that shakes up electronic payments, but there's no way to use it from the desktop (AFAICT) without an iOS device, because that's how you authorize payments. Unfortunate. - Apple Watch Unlock: Obviously only of interest if you have an Apple Watch. Again, a quick search doesn't seem to reveal any sort of API for other hardware, so it's a dead end unless you're interested in the Apple Watch. Looking through more feature lists, the only thing I can come up with that seems remotely interesting is the picture-in-picture video, although I don't know why it's better than QuickTime Player's relatively-ancient "stay on top" mode (unless they removed that when I haven't been looking). But hey, I can at least see that getting some use on my workstation. All in all, it seems like a representative sampling of what Apple has become: a bunch of neat ideas (well, except for the 'Optimized Storage' thing), but they've basically crippled them for business reasons in order to prop up their walled garden hardware ecosystem. It's exactly the sort of behavior people used to lament Microsoft for: coming up with great ideas, but then kneecapping them on the way out the door to make sure nothing threatened the golden goose. [1]: http://www.wsj.com/articles/apples-macos-sierra-five-top-features-1474391116 http://www.wsj.com/articles/apples-macos-sierra-five-top-fea... or if that's paywalled, Google for "Apple’s MacOS Sierra: Five Top Features"
fabioyy 10y ago
Any news about APFS?
jbmorgado 10y ago
I see they changed very little, so I'm hopeful this is one of those versions (like Lion if I remember correctly, might be other) where basically Apple just stopped one year, add very few features, and improved the system stability and performance. I didn't see (perhaps I've missed it) them saying this was the case, so, any insights on that?

MacOS Sierra

56 points by clumsysmurf 10y ago

iptables 10y ago

yeah don't be an idiot and install this on your work computer and break vpn. what kind of idiot does that....

empath75 10y ago
We got a warning from work about it.
szastupov 10y ago
I feel you. Had to migrate to IPSec, luckily there is a docker container that makes things a little bit easier.
azinman2 10y ago
what's the specific issue?
- OhSoHumble 10y ago
  I was the idiot who made the jump. While on VPN, no less. My work laptop has both GlobalProtect and Cisco installed as VPN clients. The GlobalProtect client broke but the Cisco client works fine - both require two factor authentication. Everything seems to work so the unnecessary risk I took didn't cause too much harm.
  - azinman2 10y ago
    Ah ok so 3rd party software not yet ready for new kernel. I thought apple dropped support for pptp or something of the like, esp with the IPSec comment in the thread.

sdegutis 10y ago

This is the first version of Mac OS X that I'm 0% excited about. Literally none of the new features[1] are useful to me, considering: I don't have or want an iPhone I don't have or want an iPad I don't have or want an iWatch I don't have or want an iCloud account I don't have or want an Apple Pay account I don't have or want an iTunes Music account I don't use or need Photos.app I don't use or need Messages.app I don't like speaking to my computer I don't watch TV while doing something else on the computer I don't use the computer enough for tabs to be useful Am I really the only one who hits all these bullet points? Am I part of a dying demographic, who doesn't use/need/want any of this fancy Star Trek futuristic life, who's okay with using a credit card and organizing photos via folders, and manually typing stuff into google, and taking notes on a physical note pad with a physical pen? [1] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-sierra/id1127487414?mt=12 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/macos-sierra/id1127487414?mt... (click "...More")

iptables 10y ago
yes
kbenson 10y ago
Well, if you use your computer as a sort of "dumb device" or single (or few) purpose instrument (typewriter, internet terminal, etc), then there's only so much innovation they are likely to make in those areas over a period of time. It's natural for them to also look at integrating with other devices and providing new functionality. Obviously not everything will interest you, and it's possible some releases will just happen to have few changes that hit the particular areas that you care about.
- sdegutis 10y ago
  "Integrating with other devices" is not their goal. Selling desktops, laptops, monitors, phones, tablets, watches, keyboards, mice, trackpads, ear buds, and to a lesser extent subscription accounts, that's their goal. If they truly wanted to provide useful integration, they would make Android and Windows Phone devices first class citizens just as much as the iPhone. They're first and foremost a hardware company. Even their Mac's OS is free! Because they get money from the Mac, not the OS. There's plenty of useful innovations they could still make that doesn't require them to focus on up-selling me new hardware, if innovating was still their goal. They're using a Star Trek future as their marketing ploy, and it's working scarily well. I guess the one upside you could say is that they're probably not selling your data and/or profile to advertisers. So at least they have that going for them.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    > "Integrating with other devices" is not their goal. Selling desktops, laptops, monitors, phones, tablets, watches, keyboards, mice, trackpads, ear buds, and to a lesser extent subscription accounts, that's their goal. Obviously, but offering better integration (even if only with their own ecosystem) is how they are trying to sell more right now. > There's plenty of useful innovations they could still make that doesn't require them to focus on up-selling me new hardware I didn't say there weren't, just that it's not likely to advance beyond a certain level in a certain time period. This is about feedback and learning what ideas survive in the market. To their credit, Apple is fairly good at coming up with radical leaps (or, at least implementing those leaps on a mass scale)[1], but they are fairly bad IMO at listening to whether they are working out well in practice (Google has the opposite problem, they so aggressively remove failed ideas that the few people that liked them feel betrayed, and express it loudly). Throwing a few hundred million dollars right now at word processing, or the browser, or any particular thing and then ignoring it is probably not as efficient as a few tens of millions spread out over years, just because there's only so much you can do to advance a field in a short period. > I guess the one upside you could say is that they're probably not selling your data and/or profile to advertisers. So at least they have that going for them. Apple ran (runs?) their own advertising service for mobile apps, iAd. I'm not sure the status currently. That said, Google isn't selling your profile or data to advertisers. That makes zero sense for them to do, and they probably have quite a lot of safeguards to make sure absolutely the bare minimum of information about an individual an ad is served to makes it back to the advertiser (preferably nothing). This isn't because they are stalwart defenders of privacy, but because it's in their best interest to not give away the data that they make their money from. I trust them to act in their self interest.

digitalsushi 10y ago

I'm excited to see a working speech interface. I use the one on my phone quite a bit to send quick messages to my wife while I'm driving. The shortest command so far is [press siri button on dashboard] + "tell my wife to come down in 2 minutes". I wish I could tell Siri I trust it and not to confirm the message. [Are you ready to send this message?] "Yes" [Ok, I'll send it]. Every. time. On the flip side, we're past the line of scrimmage where I like my OS knowing about my files and talking to a mothership about them. I know it was probably three operating systems ago that my checksums started leaking to interested parties, "hey he has a copy of Frozen, did you know that?" In about 4 months I'll give it a try. I want to hear how the hardware reacts. I installed 10.10 the day it came out, and got bit by that flakey wifi bug for what was it, nine months before Apple fixed it? I automatically bluetooth paired with the phone when the wifi froze, did about 19 gig over LTE (which kept up!) A beautiful failure scenario. I think I might not value my privacy enough, is my lingering thought, in reflection of this being available.

billforsternz 10y ago
How about "Ask my wife to come down in 2 minutes"? :-)

AdamGibbins 10y ago

Careful if you're a user of Karabiner, it doesn't work in Sierra - there's a rewrite underway to correct.

kickdaddy 10y ago
yeah - this (and Seil) is why I am holding off for now
mhmiles 10y ago
Was sad to see that karabiner no longer works. I discovered that bettertouchtool can substitute for my purposes (adding media keys to a dasKeyboard)
- guiambros 10y ago
  +1 to Bettertouchtool. I've been using it for the last year, and it is awesome. It meets all my needs of customizing a bunch of shortcuts to different apps.
- laktak 10y ago
  AFAIK bettertouchtool is not open source, so you have to place your trust onto one individual instead of the community. Not sure I want to do that as it has access to everything I type.
  - SilentNuke 10y ago
    It being closed source doesn't mean that they are any less trustworthy or competent. Trust me, I am totally on board with what you're saying. In this case though, I'd say there would be no need for concern. The developer behind BTT and BST has established trust with their users, great communication and good support. Also, as for BetterTouchTool being able to replace Karabiner, I have to disagree. I have used both for as long as I can remember and consider them "must haves." But for me at least, they have always been separate in their use and function. I made the unfortunate mistake of upgrading to Sierra before doing a more thorough check of all my application's compatibility with Sierra. I found out about Karabiner too late - total bummer. I hope an update rolls out soon. (I haven't tried the current "interim" application they created - I need the real thing)

protomyth 10y ago

Finder is worse than 10.11 and it crashes on multiple moves. At this point I'm just not sure what the heck is the problem. Now it stops being able to do command-drags (moves) after a while.

lj3 10y ago
The finder never worked all that well. I stopped using it in 10.7 and switched to path finder.

jesseendahl 10y ago

The new smart card support is pretty cool: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12543905 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12543905

rkeene2 10y ago
Mac OS X has had smartcard support for a long time. They started removing it a few "updates" ago, but the support was still there. CACKey specifically added missing bits as Apple removed them. This latest release probably features their replacement architecture. I haven't seen what is needed to make CACKey work on the latest release of the Apple's OS since I don't use it, someone else works on packaging that up.
- jesseendahl 10y ago
  Yep I realize it's been there, but (as you mentioned) keeping it updated has been ignored by Apple long time and turned into a community effort. Sierra brought a significant overhaul.

bigdubs 10y ago

It's 2016 and we still can't disable the acceleration curve for wired / non-trackpad mice.

dogma1138 10y ago
It's 2016 and you still can't disable the trackpad while typing. This drove me insane after switching to an MPB. The solution was to put the trackpad on the highest pressure setting and hope for the best.

Kadin 10y ago

Doesn't seem to be much of interest there if you're a Mac user without an interest in iOS devices. Of the WSJ's "Top 5" features [1]: - Universal Clipboard: Neat, but iOS only. Doesn't appear there's an open API for it that would make it useful elsewhere, which is too bad, because it could be rather neat. - iCloud Drive: Cloud sync of your document folders. Free space (5GB) is surprisingly limited and the upgrade pricing isn't any better than Dropbox, so not a lot of motivation to switch from Dropbox/Onedrive/Google Drive -- except for the iOS integration. It'll be interesting to see if they end up making any of the filesystem or sync logic that they're using public, so that Dropbox et al could use them (instead of Dropbox's bolt-on hack), but I'm not holding my breath. - Optimized Storage: Basically a 'feature' that automatically deletes stuff off of local storage when your disk gets full, leaving it on iCloud Drive. This basically makes my skin crawl and I can't imagine ever using it; it seems like a conceptually bad idea. Anyone want to place a bet on how long before the first article in a major news outlet about some poor soul losing everything they've ever created since the age of 5 due to this thing uploading it to the cloud, and then deleting their iCloud Drive account? I'm giving it six months on the outside. - Apple Pay: Conceptually interesting, and I'm certainly interested in anything that shakes up electronic payments, but there's no way to use it from the desktop (AFAICT) without an iOS device, because that's how you authorize payments. Unfortunate. - Apple Watch Unlock: Obviously only of interest if you have an Apple Watch. Again, a quick search doesn't seem to reveal any sort of API for other hardware, so it's a dead end unless you're interested in the Apple Watch. Looking through more feature lists, the only thing I can come up with that seems remotely interesting is the picture-in-picture video, although I don't know why it's better than QuickTime Player's relatively-ancient "stay on top" mode (unless they removed that when I haven't been looking). But hey, I can at least see that getting some use on my workstation. All in all, it seems like a representative sampling of what Apple has become: a bunch of neat ideas (well, except for the 'Optimized Storage' thing), but they've basically crippled them for business reasons in order to prop up their walled garden hardware ecosystem. It's exactly the sort of behavior people used to lament Microsoft for: coming up with great ideas, but then kneecapping them on the way out the door to make sure nothing threatened the golden goose. [1]: http://www.wsj.com/articles/apples-macos-sierra-five-top-features-1474391116 http://www.wsj.com/articles/apples-macos-sierra-five-top-fea... or if that's paywalled, Google for "Apple’s MacOS Sierra: Five Top Features"

fabioyy 10y ago

Any news about APFS?

jbmorgado 10y ago

I see they changed very little, so I'm hopeful this is one of those versions (like Lion if I remember correctly, might be other) where basically Apple just stopped one year, add very few features, and improved the system stability and performance. I didn't see (perhaps I've missed it) them saying this was the case, so, any insights on that?