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Your comment touches on how this happens, but not why. If rich people have more say in what they do, why are they working instead of things that might be more

Your comment touches on how this happens, but not why. If rich people have more say in what they do, why are they working instead of things that might be more "fun"? If rich people have far more leverage in their hourly earnings, why not work far fewer hours? I'm not sure the article really solved it, either. It's a curiosity to me as someone who has determined the quality of life I desire and want to "work" the bare minimum to achieve that.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> If rich people have more say in what they do, why are they working instead of things that might be more "fun"? If rich people have far more leverage in their hourly earnings, why not work far fewer hours? There's probably a correlation between being rich and being more inclined to spend time on activities which return money. In that, ceteris paribus, having less of that inclination will reduce your probability of becoming rich.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  I'd turn it around: Being rich provides you with the opportunity to spend time on activities which return more and more money, opportunities that do not exist for (or are out of reach of) the poor.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    I don't doubt that, the two ideas are in no way mutually exclusive.
tw04 10y ago
Because, generally speaking, by the time you get to that point, work has become your life. Some people can't handle the disconnect. Much like when a pro athlete retires, they often lose their sense of self-worth because it was so closely tied to their profession.
Retric 10y ago
I think it's the same addiction cycle that drives MMO addicts. If work is the only thing in your life going well you may focus on it rather than fix what's broken. Many successful people are less happey in retirement because that don't get a social circle playing up the importance of what they are doing. Sitting on a beach is simply less rewarding than landing a major contract. Thus, these people are not checking email on vacation because of dedication they are chasing a reward cycle.
beachstartup 10y ago
i'll give it a shot. i own a business that could potentially make me rich if i sold it, but haven't considered it yet. (it could also make me go broke, but that's another story). a poor or lower middle class person would probably disagree if they saw my income and business bank accounts, but hey, everything is relative. anyway. here are some reasons that may or may not apply to myself and my group of peers (all business owners end up hanging out with a bunch of other business owners or sales-type people, it just happens). 1. they like working. they may deny it, but they do. they like making things happen, making things in general, etc. 2. they feel like if they stop working, the money will disappear, or be taken somehow. this may or may not be rational. 3. they are compelled to do it, it is simply an inner drive they can't overcome. i.e. that's how the money was made to begin with. 4. they like having a high level of disposable income to spend on nice things/experiences/influence. this is the polar opposite of how a lot of people on HN think, who seem to constantly trying to humble-brag about their rankings in the frugality olympics. i definitely fall into #4, the others maybe, maybe not. i like nice shit, so i work hard. if i wanted to not spend money, i'd just be poor and not work much. i did it for 4 years in college, i could do it for the rest of my life if i wanted to. it's not hard to do nothing and spend nothing. it's literally the easiest thing in the world, you just don't do anything, all day long. sorry for being snarky.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  Another point is that people have their sense of self-worth tied up in their occupation. I get paid a lot => I'm an important part of the world => if I stop then the world will fail (in some [tiny] way). You see a corollary of this in retirees, their occupation defined them. Pre-retirement they say "hi, I'm Joe, I'm a professor" - a professor isn't a professor when they're relaxing and enjoying themselves (the thought process goes) so in order to be a professor I must work long hours at teaching students.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
roc 10y ago
I would guess: 1. Because the mindset of work > leisure is rewarded in the U.S., so wealthier people aren't choosing work because they're wealthier, they're wealthier because they choose work. 2. Because they have more leverage not only in how much they work, but in what work they do. If you draw a stark line between your job and what you enjoy, naturally you'll want to minimize that work and maximize your leisure. But if you actually enjoy your job...
maxxxxx 10y ago
I think they keep working because they achieve a lot of success with it so it's very rewarding. I am sure I would enjoy work much more if I felt that my work really makes a difference.
douche 10y ago
Some people really like working. If I was independently wealthy, I would work like a dog on the things I'm interested in, and I'd enjoy the hell out of it. It's not so much doing the work, it's having to do the work, and not having control over my time, that gets under my collar.
cloakandswagger 10y ago
It's pretty simple really: making money feels good. I run my own business, and as a result I have a very highly correlated effort-to-earnings relationship. The more I work, the more I make. I could spend my time doing "leisurely" activities away from work and I'd still make more than enough to live on, but instead I spend the better part of my work days (and oftentimes weekends) grinding away, trying to make this my highest earning September yet. I don't do this in the pursuit of some end goal. I have fairly modest tastes, and 90% of the money I earn goes into a bank account or brokerage where it sits forever. All I can say is that earning money gives me the most concrete measure of achievement I've found. When I was a kid I played World of Warcraft relentlessly, and gaining another level in that game gave me the same sense of forward progress. Money feels like the grown-up version of that.
- seangrogg 10y ago
  So what do end-game raids look like to you?
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Wonder if this is somehow upbringing-related. I've never felt the "making money feels good" thing. Sure, it feels great to have a surplus on my bank account, so that I don't have to worry about not having money for food, or buying quality computing equipment when I need it, or helping a friend in need. But the act of making money? It always felt to me (and still feels today) as a period of grinding you have to endure, a painful sacrifice, that will ensure the bank balance will maintain its level.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  >>All I can say is that earning money gives me the most concrete measure of achievement I've found. You make money when you generate value for someone. It's OK to tie it to a sense of achievement, but at the end of the day you also have to remember to generate value for yourself.
- intended 10y ago
  In school, one conversation with a close friend made it clear what this was about. I'd been brought up with a strong influence from my father who believed the pursuit of wealth for wealthy sake was pointless. It mattered what you did as a person than what you earned. My ideal job would be to become a scientist. My friend told me that he wanted to earn money, not because he wanted to be rich, but because he liked seeing that number go up. He knew that it was a straight up numeric increment for him. Now that's a relatively deep insight for a teen, which applies to everything from gaming to work. It's obvious and direct behavioral reinforcement. Oddly it doesn't explain why he grew up to be a scientist (bio-analytics/genomics) and I ended up wading into finance and business. Maybe self awareness is the pre requisite to being more comfortable with less than comfortable choices.
Swizec 10y ago
Is it perhaps because the type of person who gets rich is more likely to be the type of person who enjoys the work they do in and of itself?
zhemao 10y ago
It does implicitly answer the "why". If you have more choice in what you work on, you can choose work that you enjoy. If you enjoy your work, you'll do more of it. It's no longer a paradox when you take into account the fact that high-earning professionals consider work to be "fun".

dragonwriter 10y ago

> If rich people have more say in what they do, why are they working instead of things that might be more "fun"? If rich people have far more leverage in their hourly earnings, why not work far fewer hours? There's probably a correlation between being rich and being more inclined to spend time on activities which return money. In that, ceteris paribus, having less of that inclination will reduce your probability of becoming rich.

ryandrake 10y ago
I'd turn it around: Being rich provides you with the opportunity to spend time on activities which return more and more money, opportunities that do not exist for (or are out of reach of) the poor.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  I don't doubt that, the two ideas are in no way mutually exclusive.

tw04 10y ago

Because, generally speaking, by the time you get to that point, work has become your life. Some people can't handle the disconnect. Much like when a pro athlete retires, they often lose their sense of self-worth because it was so closely tied to their profession.

Retric 10y ago

I think it's the same addiction cycle that drives MMO addicts. If work is the only thing in your life going well you may focus on it rather than fix what's broken. Many successful people are less happey in retirement because that don't get a social circle playing up the importance of what they are doing. Sitting on a beach is simply less rewarding than landing a major contract. Thus, these people are not checking email on vacation because of dedication they are chasing a reward cycle.

beachstartup 10y ago

i'll give it a shot. i own a business that could potentially make me rich if i sold it, but haven't considered it yet. (it could also make me go broke, but that's another story). a poor or lower middle class person would probably disagree if they saw my income and business bank accounts, but hey, everything is relative. anyway. here are some reasons that may or may not apply to myself and my group of peers (all business owners end up hanging out with a bunch of other business owners or sales-type people, it just happens). 1. they like working. they may deny it, but they do. they like making things happen, making things in general, etc. 2. they feel like if they stop working, the money will disappear, or be taken somehow. this may or may not be rational. 3. they are compelled to do it, it is simply an inner drive they can't overcome. i.e. that's how the money was made to begin with. 4. they like having a high level of disposable income to spend on nice things/experiences/influence. this is the polar opposite of how a lot of people on HN think, who seem to constantly trying to humble-brag about their rankings in the frugality olympics. i definitely fall into #4, the others maybe, maybe not. i like nice shit, so i work hard. if i wanted to not spend money, i'd just be poor and not work much. i did it for 4 years in college, i could do it for the rest of my life if i wanted to. it's not hard to do nothing and spend nothing. it's literally the easiest thing in the world, you just don't do anything, all day long. sorry for being snarky.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago
Another point is that people have their sense of self-worth tied up in their occupation. I get paid a lot => I'm an important part of the world => if I stop then the world will fail (in some [tiny] way). You see a corollary of this in retirees, their occupation defined them. Pre-retirement they say "hi, I'm Joe, I'm a professor" - a professor isn't a professor when they're relaxing and enjoying themselves (the thought process goes) so in order to be a professor I must work long hours at teaching students.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

roc 10y ago

I would guess: 1. Because the mindset of work > leisure is rewarded in the U.S., so wealthier people aren't choosing work because they're wealthier, they're wealthier because they choose work. 2. Because they have more leverage not only in how much they work, but in what work they do. If you draw a stark line between your job and what you enjoy, naturally you'll want to minimize that work and maximize your leisure. But if you actually enjoy your job...

maxxxxx 10y ago

I think they keep working because they achieve a lot of success with it so it's very rewarding. I am sure I would enjoy work much more if I felt that my work really makes a difference.

douche 10y ago

Some people really like working. If I was independently wealthy, I would work like a dog on the things I'm interested in, and I'd enjoy the hell out of it. It's not so much doing the work, it's having to do the work, and not having control over my time, that gets under my collar.

cloakandswagger 10y ago

It's pretty simple really: making money feels good. I run my own business, and as a result I have a very highly correlated effort-to-earnings relationship. The more I work, the more I make. I could spend my time doing "leisurely" activities away from work and I'd still make more than enough to live on, but instead I spend the better part of my work days (and oftentimes weekends) grinding away, trying to make this my highest earning September yet. I don't do this in the pursuit of some end goal. I have fairly modest tastes, and 90% of the money I earn goes into a bank account or brokerage where it sits forever. All I can say is that earning money gives me the most concrete measure of achievement I've found. When I was a kid I played World of Warcraft relentlessly, and gaining another level in that game gave me the same sense of forward progress. Money feels like the grown-up version of that.

seangrogg 10y ago
So what do end-game raids look like to you?
TeMPOraL 10y ago
Wonder if this is somehow upbringing-related. I've never felt the "making money feels good" thing. Sure, it feels great to have a surplus on my bank account, so that I don't have to worry about not having money for food, or buying quality computing equipment when I need it, or helping a friend in need. But the act of making money? It always felt to me (and still feels today) as a period of grinding you have to endure, a painful sacrifice, that will ensure the bank balance will maintain its level.
enraged_camel 10y ago
>>All I can say is that earning money gives me the most concrete measure of achievement I've found. You make money when you generate value for someone. It's OK to tie it to a sense of achievement, but at the end of the day you also have to remember to generate value for yourself.
intended 10y ago
In school, one conversation with a close friend made it clear what this was about. I'd been brought up with a strong influence from my father who believed the pursuit of wealth for wealthy sake was pointless. It mattered what you did as a person than what you earned. My ideal job would be to become a scientist. My friend told me that he wanted to earn money, not because he wanted to be rich, but because he liked seeing that number go up. He knew that it was a straight up numeric increment for him. Now that's a relatively deep insight for a teen, which applies to everything from gaming to work. It's obvious and direct behavioral reinforcement. Oddly it doesn't explain why he grew up to be a scientist (bio-analytics/genomics) and I ended up wading into finance and business. Maybe self awareness is the pre requisite to being more comfortable with less than comfortable choices.

Swizec 10y ago

Is it perhaps because the type of person who gets rich is more likely to be the type of person who enjoys the work they do in and of itself?

zhemao 10y ago

It does implicitly answer the "why". If you have more choice in what you work on, you can choose work that you enjoy. If you enjoy your work, you'll do more of it. It's no longer a paradox when you take into account the fact that high-earning professionals consider work to be "fun".