9 ms·

I've been part of a technical training program at a Fortune 100 company. I've done technical training for new hires at a Fortune 500 company. I've also voluntee

by dopeboy 10y ago

I've been part of a technical training program at a Fortune 100 company. I've done technical training for new hires at a Fortune 500 company. I've also volunteer taught high school kids how to code. I consider myself an introvert with a extrovert mode that gets turned on when needed. Couple thoughts: * As an instructor, I hate standing in front of the class and talking. That asymmetric form of teaching is pointless and I'd argue, outdated. * Interactivity is important in a training setting because you're learning along with others. That initial path you create in your brain is dotted with waypoints that everyone in class travels together. This is powerful when learning because more likely than not, you will be able to pull each other way from common pitfalls and also connect concepts that you know about already. * I see your point on group activity. It depends on the nature of the training. If it's a highly technical topic like a new programming language, it probably makes sense to have individual practice before any group project.

hannob 10y ago
"I consider myself an introvert with a extrovert mode that gets turned on when needed." Then please understand that unlike you many others aren't introverts by choice. They can't simply "turn it off".
- paulcole 10y ago
  Saying, "I'm an introvert" isn't an excuse to avoid interacting with others. Learning how to spend time in a group is a valuable skill, especially for introverts.
  - noobiemcfoob 10y ago
    Unless the course is about training group communication skills, etc, the fact that it is a good and useful skill has no bearing on its use for instructing other topics. The point of a course is to teach you a topic, not teach skills outside of that topic. This was the worst with instructors and professors who felt they needed to teach you some life skill along with calculus. They'd fail to notice a large number of other professors were doing it too. Then you have 5 different people all convinced and trying their hardest to ingrain group communications skills right alongside advanced topics. Meanwhile, I'm crying inside as I struggle with 5 different group projects - not because of the material, I could do each of these projects alone with only moderately more time - but because of the awkwardness of forgetting everyone's name and those details about each of their personal lives they want to talk about for the first 15 minutes of every meeting. Take your life skills and write a self-help book. I just want to learn some integrals.
- jordanlev 10y ago
  I think there's a misunderstanding of what introversion is... it's not just "being shy" versus "being outgoing", but rather (as the article and lots of other commenters have pointed out) about what recharges your mental energy. So it's kind of like saying "make sure you spend some time each day doing that strenuous activity so you get more used to it". Just like someone would say "go to the gym and work out a few times a week". Just because one person isn't as physically fit as another, doesn't mean the less-fit person shouldn't get any exercise at all.
  - ashark 10y ago
    I entirely fail to relate to this analogy. Boring/not-boring matters so much more than "is this an extroverted or introverted activity?" as far as draining my mental energy that the latter doesn't even register. I would never think: "doing some boring solo work will totally recharge my batteries after that equally-boring meeting I just got out of". Is it truly common to operate that way?
    - jordanlev 10y ago
      You are probably then close to the middle of being an introvert vs. an extrovert. If you ask someone who very much considers themselves an introvert (like myself), the answer would be "I would SO much rather do boring solo work than sit in a boring meeting", and actually doing boring solo work would probably be the thing I most look forward to after a boring meeting. If you ask someone who strongly identifies as being an extrovert, I think they'd answer the other way: after some boring solo work they're probably craving some human interaction, even if it's in the context of a boring meeting.
dasmoth 10y ago
>>> Interactivity is important in a training setting because you're learning along with others. That initial path you create in your brain is dotted with waypoints that everyone in class travels together. This is powerful when learning because more likely than not, you will be able to pull each other way from common pitfalls and also connect concepts that you know about already. This is true for some, not for others. Once again, probably at least correlating with the extrovert-introvert axis. Agree that the "lecture" format isn't great, though. For me, books, some space to work through/try the stuff at my own pace, and ideally an expert I can discuss stuff with 1:1 if I'm really stuck. Don't worry, I'll consult the FAQ first -- so long as one exists.
wolfgke 10y ago
> I consider myself an introvert with a extrovert mode that gets turned on when needed. Introvert vs. extrovert doesn't refer to whether you like to work alone or in a group but what kind of environment gives you back your energy/exhausts your energy: Being alone in a (typically) silent environment vs. interacting in a group.
- anonymfus 10y ago
  Is "energy" a metaphor? Does exhausting energy refers to causing stress, fatigue or something else?
  - Filligree 10y ago
    It refers to getting tired.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    For me it is mental energy. I get the same kind of tired as I do writing code just much faster.
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    > Is "energy" a metaphor? Rather "yes" (don't use the term from physics ;-) ). I think Filligree (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12461044 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12461044) and cmdrfred (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12461049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12461049) gave decent short descriptions. I would describe it in a lot more words with: You surely know after what kind of activities you feel really exhausted (in particular mentally, but also physically) that you just want to go to bed (or as an introvert to some silent place). These are activities that exhaust your energy. On the other hand there are activities that will give you energy (for some introverts for example intelligent conversations with close friends). So "energy" refers to the state whether you are mentally exhausted or have enough ressources available that you would love, say, found a startup, to revolutionize the way something is done (which does not mean you are capable to do or it is a good idea - but you really would love to and mentally you are willing). See "energy" as the noun derived from the "energetic" adjective in "Jane Doe is a very energetic person".
maus42 10y ago
>* Interactivity is important in a training setting because you're learning along with others. That initial path you create in your brain is dotted with waypoints that everyone in class travels together. I'm sorry, I'm totally lost at what this metaphor is even supposed to mean. I have no idea what the deep mental processes of my fellow students are when they are learning, even if we would talk about the material and ask questions and discuss, and I'm not even sure why I should follow the same "pathways" as them to learn to grok some concept. Most efficient learning method I've found is to study materials on your own (be their written materials, videos, recorded lectures, though I prefer texts), try to apply it (first to some basic exercises if available, then try more independent work), and ask a more knowledgeable person questions about it when I have questions to ask. The last stage is inherently interactive, but at the first stage all and the only action that happens should be you and your brain concentrating on the material.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
  Yes. I think this is how it works for a lot of people. The idea of waypoints etc sounds more like a clumsy narrative about how it should work than how it really does. If I'm "learning with others", I'm putting a lot more energy into being with others than into learning. Unless it's an explicitly social problem, it's a very inefficient way to learn. There are problems with self-directed learning. The most obvious is that because you don't know what you don't know, you can build an oversimplified mental model, which can cause issues later. And if you're not taught best-practices and microskills that people learn with experience, your learning will be incomplete. It's up to course material developers to try to solve both of those problems. Ideally teaching should combine rich and realistic model/overview with useful time-saving rote skills from real practice.
quantumhobbit 10y ago
In my experience interactivity is only really useful for forcing people who don't want to be there to pay attention.
- noobiemcfoob 10y ago
  *forcing people who don't want to be there to want to be there even less. FTFY!
marcosdumay 10y ago
About #1 - it really depends on the subject. For #2 - "everyone in class travels together" means slowing everybody down to the rate of the slowest person on the room. If you insist on that, you'd better filter your participants into a very homogeneous group (on both style and capacity), or you'll lose anybody that is not completely stupid.

by dopeboy 10y ago

hannob 10y ago

"I consider myself an introvert with a extrovert mode that gets turned on when needed." Then please understand that unlike you many others aren't introverts by choice. They can't simply "turn it off".

paulcole 10y ago
Saying, "I'm an introvert" isn't an excuse to avoid interacting with others. Learning how to spend time in a group is a valuable skill, especially for introverts.
- noobiemcfoob 10y ago
  Unless the course is about training group communication skills, etc, the fact that it is a good and useful skill has no bearing on its use for instructing other topics. The point of a course is to teach you a topic, not teach skills outside of that topic. This was the worst with instructors and professors who felt they needed to teach you some life skill along with calculus. They'd fail to notice a large number of other professors were doing it too. Then you have 5 different people all convinced and trying their hardest to ingrain group communications skills right alongside advanced topics. Meanwhile, I'm crying inside as I struggle with 5 different group projects - not because of the material, I could do each of these projects alone with only moderately more time - but because of the awkwardness of forgetting everyone's name and those details about each of their personal lives they want to talk about for the first 15 minutes of every meeting. Take your life skills and write a self-help book. I just want to learn some integrals.
jordanlev 10y ago
I think there's a misunderstanding of what introversion is... it's not just "being shy" versus "being outgoing", but rather (as the article and lots of other commenters have pointed out) about what recharges your mental energy. So it's kind of like saying "make sure you spend some time each day doing that strenuous activity so you get more used to it". Just like someone would say "go to the gym and work out a few times a week". Just because one person isn't as physically fit as another, doesn't mean the less-fit person shouldn't get any exercise at all.
- ashark 10y ago
  I entirely fail to relate to this analogy. Boring/not-boring matters so much more than "is this an extroverted or introverted activity?" as far as draining my mental energy that the latter doesn't even register. I would never think: "doing some boring solo work will totally recharge my batteries after that equally-boring meeting I just got out of". Is it truly common to operate that way?
  - jordanlev 10y ago
    You are probably then close to the middle of being an introvert vs. an extrovert. If you ask someone who very much considers themselves an introvert (like myself), the answer would be "I would SO much rather do boring solo work than sit in a boring meeting", and actually doing boring solo work would probably be the thing I most look forward to after a boring meeting. If you ask someone who strongly identifies as being an extrovert, I think they'd answer the other way: after some boring solo work they're probably craving some human interaction, even if it's in the context of a boring meeting.

dasmoth 10y ago

>>> Interactivity is important in a training setting because you're learning along with others. That initial path you create in your brain is dotted with waypoints that everyone in class travels together. This is powerful when learning because more likely than not, you will be able to pull each other way from common pitfalls and also connect concepts that you know about already. This is true for some, not for others. Once again, probably at least correlating with the extrovert-introvert axis. Agree that the "lecture" format isn't great, though. For me, books, some space to work through/try the stuff at my own pace, and ideally an expert I can discuss stuff with 1:1 if I'm really stuck. Don't worry, I'll consult the FAQ first -- so long as one exists.

wolfgke 10y ago

> I consider myself an introvert with a extrovert mode that gets turned on when needed. Introvert vs. extrovert doesn't refer to whether you like to work alone or in a group but what kind of environment gives you back your energy/exhausts your energy: Being alone in a (typically) silent environment vs. interacting in a group.

anonymfus 10y ago
Is "energy" a metaphor? Does exhausting energy refers to causing stress, fatigue or something else?
- Filligree 10y ago
  It refers to getting tired.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  For me it is mental energy. I get the same kind of tired as I do writing code just much faster.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > Is "energy" a metaphor? Rather "yes" (don't use the term from physics ;-) ). I think Filligree (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12461044 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12461044) and cmdrfred (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12461049 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12461049) gave decent short descriptions. I would describe it in a lot more words with: You surely know after what kind of activities you feel really exhausted (in particular mentally, but also physically) that you just want to go to bed (or as an introvert to some silent place). These are activities that exhaust your energy. On the other hand there are activities that will give you energy (for some introverts for example intelligent conversations with close friends). So "energy" refers to the state whether you are mentally exhausted or have enough ressources available that you would love, say, found a startup, to revolutionize the way something is done (which does not mean you are capable to do or it is a good idea - but you really would love to and mentally you are willing). See "energy" as the noun derived from the "energetic" adjective in "Jane Doe is a very energetic person".

maus42 10y ago

>* Interactivity is important in a training setting because you're learning along with others. That initial path you create in your brain is dotted with waypoints that everyone in class travels together. I'm sorry, I'm totally lost at what this metaphor is even supposed to mean. I have no idea what the deep mental processes of my fellow students are when they are learning, even if we would talk about the material and ask questions and discuss, and I'm not even sure why I should follow the same "pathways" as them to learn to grok some concept. Most efficient learning method I've found is to study materials on your own (be their written materials, videos, recorded lectures, though I prefer texts), try to apply it (first to some basic exercises if available, then try more independent work), and ask a more knowledgeable person questions about it when I have questions to ask. The last stage is inherently interactive, but at the first stage all and the only action that happens should be you and your brain concentrating on the material.

TheOtherHobbes 10y ago
Yes. I think this is how it works for a lot of people. The idea of waypoints etc sounds more like a clumsy narrative about how it should work than how it really does. If I'm "learning with others", I'm putting a lot more energy into being with others than into learning. Unless it's an explicitly social problem, it's a very inefficient way to learn. There are problems with self-directed learning. The most obvious is that because you don't know what you don't know, you can build an oversimplified mental model, which can cause issues later. And if you're not taught best-practices and microskills that people learn with experience, your learning will be incomplete. It's up to course material developers to try to solve both of those problems. Ideally teaching should combine rich and realistic model/overview with useful time-saving rote skills from real practice.

quantumhobbit 10y ago

In my experience interactivity is only really useful for forcing people who don't want to be there to pay attention.

noobiemcfoob 10y ago
*forcing people who don't want to be there to want to be there even less. FTFY!

marcosdumay 10y ago

About #1 - it really depends on the subject. For #2 - "everyone in class travels together" means slowing everybody down to the rate of the slowest person on the room. If you insist on that, you'd better filter your participants into a very homogeneous group (on both style and capacity), or you'll lose anybody that is not completely stupid.