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> the biggest difference is that those technologies were all on the downward slope of their popularity when Apple made the move Were any of them? MacBook Air r

> the biggest difference is that those technologies were all on the downward slope of their popularity when Apple made the move Were any of them? MacBook Air released in 2008. DVD media sales rose YOY 2005 => 2009. Flash video did not decrease in popularity pre-iPhone, it decreased because of the iPhone. > The headphone jack is just as popular today as it has ever been "DVDs are as popular today as they have ever been" - someone in 2008 > they by design can't be a universal solution They've been explicitly designed to be as close to a universal solution as is possible. Pair them with one of your Apple devices and that pairing is synced to all others. Instead of unplugging your cable from your phone to your Mac you simply start doing something on your Mac and the audio source switches. If the Airpods did not require power and were simply completely wireless they'd be the perfect solution. Apple is betting that battery advances will mean that the utility of these headphones (no wire, built in sensors) massively outweighs the cons (require power). Right now they only benefit "a lot" of people.

theli0nheart 10y ago
>> the biggest difference is that those technologies were all on the downward slope of their popularity when Apple made the move > Were any of them? MacBook Air released in 2008. DVD media sales rose YOY 2005 => 2009. Flash video did not decrease in popularity pre-iPhone, it decreased because of the iPhone. And yet most people still need to buy external DVD/Blu-Ray drives. It's been 7 years, and not having DVD drives built into Mac hardware is still incredibly inconvenient. >> The headphone jack is just as popular today as it has ever been > "DVDs are as popular today as they have ever been" - someone in 2008 I'm sure someone said that, but I think most people were already moving on to Blu-Ray.
- cloudjacker 10y ago
  and not having a dvd drive built in is incredibly convenient for the form factor and durability of the machine
  - pritambaral 10y ago
    That gain in form-factor is not comparable to the removal of the 3.5mm port though.
    - cloudjacker 10y ago
      As someone that has been using noise cancelling wireless headphones for 3 years, sorry I can't relate. I'm considerate of the price premium this represents, and how Apple's new buds unfortunately only offer 5 hours of charge. But I just want you to know there is another perspective.
      - anonred 10y ago
        Given your usage patterns, what sort of battery performance do you normally expect from wireless earbuds? 5hrs with a 24hr+ charging case seems decently long to someone who only uses wired earbuds.
        georgespencer 10y ago
        Bose QC-25 give me 35 hours of active noise cancelling on a single AAA battery.
- jmtorresg 10y ago
  > And yet most people still need to buy external DVD/Blu-ray drives. I don't agree with you on that point, and that's coming from someone who has a computer which came with a DVD drive. I've literally used it maybe, what, twice since I got it? And honestly I can't find an example off the top of my head of a mac-owning friend of mine who'd complain about not having a optical drive on their machine.
- flukus 10y ago
  DVD media sales don't mean much because most of those would be watched on home entertainment centers, not MacBook. My ~5 year old laptop came with a blue ray drive. It has never held a blue ray disc and only once held a DVD. I wish other manufacturers were quicker to follow suite.
- oldmanjay 10y ago
  I'm not sure most Mac owners are buying external DVD drives. Do you have any reason for believing that? It's possible my experience isn't representative but I do know hundreds of Mac owners and DVD drives aren't very evident. Nor are any discs, generally. It seems to be a very networked subculture.
- georgespencer 10y ago
  You've said "most people" twice here and I think it's wrong both times. No, most people who buy Mac laptops and iMacs do _not_ buy an external DVD or Blu Ray drive. Apple is not shifting Macs:Drives in a 2:1 ratio or anything even approaching that. > I think most people were already moving on to Blu-Ray In 2008 Blu Ray vs HD-DVD was only just coming to an end. It's extraordinary to claim that "most people" [who had a DVD drive] were transitioning over to Blu Ray. If anything, I'd argue that a huge chunk of people who had DVD players flat-out have not transitioned to BR at all. Either way "most people" is an insane number.
DiThi 10y ago
> as close to a universal solution as is possible As long as you only use Apple hardware, of course.
- georgespencer 10y ago
  If you don't use Apple hardware it doesn't seem like a huge inconvenience that Apple is replacing the headphone jack…
jmtorresg 10y ago
Even if the headphone jack were dying out (which IMO is not the case, but anyway), one has to admit that replacing it by a proprietary system like Lightning is a bad idea. Now, I get their goal is pushing toward the use of wireless, but they'll have to explain themselves as to how they're planning on pulling that off when the only official wireless alternative they offer is a $159 pair of earphones as opposed to their wired alternative which is literally more than 4x cheaper.
- conistonwater 10y ago
  A decent pair of earbuds can cost about $10, even their wired alternative is grotesquely overpriced.
- matwood 10y ago
  I agree with you here. If the goal was to get people moving to wireless, including the AirPods with the iPhone would have been real 'courage'.
- georgespencer 10y ago
  > which IMO is not the case, but anyway The headphone jack was not dying out up until yesterday. As of today, it is. In the next five years a whole bunch of phone manufacturers are going to do the same thing. You're going to absolutely shit yourself when Apple removes the lightning port from the iPhone 10. > one has to admit that replacing it by a proprietary system like Lightning is a bad idea Apple's view: we've replaced it with wireless. Use Bluetooth or Apple W1-enabled headphones. It is much better for many reasons. If you can't use them for some reason, use the Lightning headphones we shipped in the box If you can't use them, use the 3.5mm=>Lightning adapter we shipped in the box. > the only official wireless alternative they offer is a $159 pair of headphones The only official laptops they offer start at $700. Apple is a premium brand. As of today the complete range of choices Apple enables you to make on headphones, right out of the box: 1. Wired lightning headphones 2. Wired 3.5mm headphones via lightning dongle 3. Any pair of bluetooth headphones 4. Any pair of Apple W1-enabled wireless headphones If you don't want to spend $159 on a pair of bluetooth headphones then you can go ahead and buy some cheaper ones!
unprepare 10y ago
>"DVDs are as popular today as they have ever been" - someone in 2008 What percentage of motor vehicles had a DVD player in 2008, vs what percentage of motor vehicles have an aux port today? A car is not something you can just go out and upgrade. Try getting a dealership to install a factory bluetooth system in your 2010 chevy - let me know how it goes. Keep in mind Apple is decidedly against, on a cultural level, aftermarket customization, so some off the shelf, bestbuy radio head unit is not an acceptable apple-like solution. >They've been explicitly designed to be as close to a universal solution as is possible. Oh thats great news, then they must have covered these extremely common cases, right? How about all my friends cars? Will i be able to play a song after my friend by virtue of this magical universal airpod system? (oh right, as long as i remember to carry my handy-dandy headphone dongle in my pocket at all times everywhere i go, ill be able to do what ive done for years without carrying anything!) When i get into my car and bluetooth doesnt connect before i take it out of park, how will this system magically connect my phone so i can listen to music on my drive? (again, as long as ive got my trusty headphone dongle on me, all things are solved. It Just Works TM) And those lightning headphones i just bought for my new iphone, how do i plug them into my mac, which doesnt have a lightning port? How about my PC? my android tablet? my ipod nano from years ago i use for working out? (yet another dongle of course! any true minimalist would swoon over the idea of having to keep track of several dongles with their mobile device - minimalism is apple design cue of choice afterall) Besides all that, what is the latency on these airpods headphones? Movies are largely unwatchable over bluetooth because of the audio lag - has this been fixed? How about battery life? I use bluetooth headphones all day in my office, i generally connect them to my mac, because otherwise i end up with a dead phone battery near the end of the day - how does airpods resolve this issue? Basically, what about this system is BETTER than what i currently have access to. To defend the removing of the headphone jack, surely you can come up with at least one feature that wasnt possible on phones with the headphone jack? I mean its not even any thinner....
- scott_karana 10y ago
  Why does it need to be a factory Bluetooth system? DIN-standard decks have had a rich aftermarket for half a century at least, and have always offered more features than factory decks. A Bluetooth+USB+AUX deck from a brand like Pioneer or Alpine is about $100USD. Yes, it sucks to spend more money, but you also get Bluetooth calling, proper audio format support (does your Chevy so OGG?) and even support for apps like Pandora sometimes. Worth getting _without_ even having an iPhone, for me at least.
camelNotation 10y ago
I think your analogy to DVDs doesn't work because DVDs were never really about software. They were and, to the extent they still exist, are about multimedia in your living room. They began to decline because of Blu-ray, not because software suddenly became digitally packaged. Second, DVDs were and are an inferior technology with a better alternative in every category of use. Yet when it comes to headphones, I own a pair of very expensive monitors that I use with lots of different devices. Am I supposed to just ignore that investment in the name of an Apple branded phone? There's nothing wrong with them at all and they far outperform a $150 pair of bluetooth "AirPods". Regarding your statement about the Bluetooth being a universal solution, you're offering a red herring. Bluetooth was always available, so if someone wanted that, they'd have used it already. The issue here is the port itself and in this case, that means adapting all hardware not just to a new plug, but to a PROPRIETARY plug that won't work on my PC, digital piano, stereo amplifier, car auxillary port, or any of the other music producing devices I own. That's insanity.

theli0nheart 10y ago

>> the biggest difference is that those technologies were all on the downward slope of their popularity when Apple made the move > Were any of them? MacBook Air released in 2008. DVD media sales rose YOY 2005 => 2009. Flash video did not decrease in popularity pre-iPhone, it decreased because of the iPhone. And yet most people still need to buy external DVD/Blu-Ray drives. It's been 7 years, and not having DVD drives built into Mac hardware is still incredibly inconvenient. >> The headphone jack is just as popular today as it has ever been > "DVDs are as popular today as they have ever been" - someone in 2008 I'm sure someone said that, but I think most people were already moving on to Blu-Ray.

cloudjacker 10y ago
and not having a dvd drive built in is incredibly convenient for the form factor and durability of the machine
- pritambaral 10y ago
  That gain in form-factor is not comparable to the removal of the 3.5mm port though.
  - cloudjacker 10y ago
    As someone that has been using noise cancelling wireless headphones for 3 years, sorry I can't relate. I'm considerate of the price premium this represents, and how Apple's new buds unfortunately only offer 5 hours of charge. But I just want you to know there is another perspective.
    - anonred 10y ago
      Given your usage patterns, what sort of battery performance do you normally expect from wireless earbuds? 5hrs with a 24hr+ charging case seems decently long to someone who only uses wired earbuds.
      - georgespencer 10y ago
        Bose QC-25 give me 35 hours of active noise cancelling on a single AAA battery.
jmtorresg 10y ago
> And yet most people still need to buy external DVD/Blu-ray drives. I don't agree with you on that point, and that's coming from someone who has a computer which came with a DVD drive. I've literally used it maybe, what, twice since I got it? And honestly I can't find an example off the top of my head of a mac-owning friend of mine who'd complain about not having a optical drive on their machine.
flukus 10y ago
DVD media sales don't mean much because most of those would be watched on home entertainment centers, not MacBook. My ~5 year old laptop came with a blue ray drive. It has never held a blue ray disc and only once held a DVD. I wish other manufacturers were quicker to follow suite.
oldmanjay 10y ago
I'm not sure most Mac owners are buying external DVD drives. Do you have any reason for believing that? It's possible my experience isn't representative but I do know hundreds of Mac owners and DVD drives aren't very evident. Nor are any discs, generally. It seems to be a very networked subculture.
georgespencer 10y ago
You've said "most people" twice here and I think it's wrong both times. No, most people who buy Mac laptops and iMacs do _not_ buy an external DVD or Blu Ray drive. Apple is not shifting Macs:Drives in a 2:1 ratio or anything even approaching that. > I think most people were already moving on to Blu-Ray In 2008 Blu Ray vs HD-DVD was only just coming to an end. It's extraordinary to claim that "most people" [who had a DVD drive] were transitioning over to Blu Ray. If anything, I'd argue that a huge chunk of people who had DVD players flat-out have not transitioned to BR at all. Either way "most people" is an insane number.

DiThi 10y ago

> as close to a universal solution as is possible As long as you only use Apple hardware, of course.

georgespencer 10y ago
If you don't use Apple hardware it doesn't seem like a huge inconvenience that Apple is replacing the headphone jack…

jmtorresg 10y ago

Even if the headphone jack were dying out (which IMO is not the case, but anyway), one has to admit that replacing it by a proprietary system like Lightning is a bad idea. Now, I get their goal is pushing toward the use of wireless, but they'll have to explain themselves as to how they're planning on pulling that off when the only official wireless alternative they offer is a $159 pair of earphones as opposed to their wired alternative which is literally more than 4x cheaper.

conistonwater 10y ago
A decent pair of earbuds can cost about $10, even their wired alternative is grotesquely overpriced.
matwood 10y ago
I agree with you here. If the goal was to get people moving to wireless, including the AirPods with the iPhone would have been real 'courage'.
georgespencer 10y ago
> which IMO is not the case, but anyway The headphone jack was not dying out up until yesterday. As of today, it is. In the next five years a whole bunch of phone manufacturers are going to do the same thing. You're going to absolutely shit yourself when Apple removes the lightning port from the iPhone 10. > one has to admit that replacing it by a proprietary system like Lightning is a bad idea Apple's view: we've replaced it with wireless. Use Bluetooth or Apple W1-enabled headphones. It is much better for many reasons. If you can't use them for some reason, use the Lightning headphones we shipped in the box If you can't use them, use the 3.5mm=>Lightning adapter we shipped in the box. > the only official wireless alternative they offer is a $159 pair of headphones The only official laptops they offer start at $700. Apple is a premium brand. As of today the complete range of choices Apple enables you to make on headphones, right out of the box: 1. Wired lightning headphones 2. Wired 3.5mm headphones via lightning dongle 3. Any pair of bluetooth headphones 4. Any pair of Apple W1-enabled wireless headphones If you don't want to spend $159 on a pair of bluetooth headphones then you can go ahead and buy some cheaper ones!

unprepare 10y ago

>"DVDs are as popular today as they have ever been" - someone in 2008 What percentage of motor vehicles had a DVD player in 2008, vs what percentage of motor vehicles have an aux port today? A car is not something you can just go out and upgrade. Try getting a dealership to install a factory bluetooth system in your 2010 chevy - let me know how it goes. Keep in mind Apple is decidedly against, on a cultural level, aftermarket customization, so some off the shelf, bestbuy radio head unit is not an acceptable apple-like solution. >They've been explicitly designed to be as close to a universal solution as is possible. Oh thats great news, then they must have covered these extremely common cases, right? How about all my friends cars? Will i be able to play a song after my friend by virtue of this magical universal airpod system? (oh right, as long as i remember to carry my handy-dandy headphone dongle in my pocket at all times everywhere i go, ill be able to do what ive done for years without carrying anything!) When i get into my car and bluetooth doesnt connect before i take it out of park, how will this system magically connect my phone so i can listen to music on my drive? (again, as long as ive got my trusty headphone dongle on me, all things are solved. It Just Works TM) And those lightning headphones i just bought for my new iphone, how do i plug them into my mac, which doesnt have a lightning port? How about my PC? my android tablet? my ipod nano from years ago i use for working out? (yet another dongle of course! any true minimalist would swoon over the idea of having to keep track of several dongles with their mobile device - minimalism is apple design cue of choice afterall) Besides all that, what is the latency on these airpods headphones? Movies are largely unwatchable over bluetooth because of the audio lag - has this been fixed? How about battery life? I use bluetooth headphones all day in my office, i generally connect them to my mac, because otherwise i end up with a dead phone battery near the end of the day - how does airpods resolve this issue? Basically, what about this system is BETTER than what i currently have access to. To defend the removing of the headphone jack, surely you can come up with at least one feature that wasnt possible on phones with the headphone jack? I mean its not even any thinner....

scott_karana 10y ago
Why does it need to be a factory Bluetooth system? DIN-standard decks have had a rich aftermarket for half a century at least, and have always offered more features than factory decks. A Bluetooth+USB+AUX deck from a brand like Pioneer or Alpine is about $100USD. Yes, it sucks to spend more money, but you also get Bluetooth calling, proper audio format support (does your Chevy so OGG?) and even support for apps like Pandora sometimes. Worth getting _without_ even having an iPhone, for me at least.

camelNotation 10y ago

I think your analogy to DVDs doesn't work because DVDs were never really about software. They were and, to the extent they still exist, are about multimedia in your living room. They began to decline because of Blu-ray, not because software suddenly became digitally packaged. Second, DVDs were and are an inferior technology with a better alternative in every category of use. Yet when it comes to headphones, I own a pair of very expensive monitors that I use with lots of different devices. Am I supposed to just ignore that investment in the name of an Apple branded phone? There's nothing wrong with them at all and they far outperform a $150 pair of bluetooth "AirPods". Regarding your statement about the Bluetooth being a universal solution, you're offering a red herring. Bluetooth was always available, so if someone wanted that, they'd have used it already. The issue here is the port itself and in this case, that means adapting all hardware not just to a new plug, but to a PROPRIETARY plug that won't work on my PC, digital piano, stereo amplifier, car auxillary port, or any of the other music producing devices I own. That's insanity.