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How to get people who installed a leaked build to stop using that build?
- kazinator 10y agoHow about: have a really cheesy wallpapers in the pre-release builds which conveys the message (perhaps with explicit text right in the wallpaper image) that this is not a released build. Also, how about making not-released builds simply expire. The build should know that nobody ought to run it past a certain date. (If such operation is needed internally, it can be rigged with an extension mechanism built into the expiry.)
- soylentcola 10y agoIsn't that the thought behind the watermarks they've had since Win7-ish? I remember messing with beta builds and reading about people using them (again, to avoid paying for it for a bit as mentioned in another comment) and jumping through all sorts of hoops to disable or hide the watermark - aside from buying a license of course. There's probably a point at which any more effort put into carrots (new features or wallpapers on official builds) and sticks (nag screens, watermarks, expirations, etc on old builds) just becomes more trouble than it's worth. I like trying out leaked builds of programs or OSes as much as the next bored nerd but I can't imagine ever running something as primary OS on any machine I count on for anything. That stuff is for old computers that aren't being used or VMs.
- AstralStorm 10y agoExpiration has an additional positive effect in that it prevents use of the buggy builds and is also relatively easy to implement, especially when the prerelease build can phone home.
- radley 10y agoI think the critical point of their solution is they don't need to negatively affect users to get them to update.
- kazinator 10y agoIf I'm not negatively affected in any way, why should I upgrade? Also, how does a user who doesn't upgrade notice a change in wallpaper which doesn't take place until after the upgrade? By looking at someone else's desktop which is running the release version? What if the user has changed to a custom wallpaper, and doesn't remember what the original wallpaper of the leaked OS looks like?
- heywire 10y ago>Also, how does a user who doesn't upgrade notice a change in wallpaper which doesn't take place until after the upgrade? By looking at someone else's desktop which is running the release version? The type of person who is downloading leaked pre-release builds in order to have the latest and greatest generally follows the latest news about new leaked builds.
- kazinator 10y agoOk, so they see it in some screenshot. "Hey if you get this, your desktop will look different" and that somehow motivates them. :)
- bkmartin 10y agoDeveloper builds do expire. Dealing with that with one of my customers. A slick little IT guy decided that he would put his developer copy of Windows on this particular non-profit's computer to save them money. All of a sudden 3 weeks ago they get a message about their OS being expired and it wouldn't boot up without a windows boot disc.
- caf 10y agoRather than a hard cutoff, you could have the colours of everything on-screen desaturate as time passes beyond the expiry date, eventually ending up entirely monochromatic. I think that would get the message across quite effectively :)
- yongjik 10y agoDon't think it would work. "Super secret preview version of Windows X leaked! Download here!" (...3 weeks later...) "People trying Super secret preview version of Windows X get their hard drives wiped out! Was this Microsoft's plan all along? Please tell what you think!"
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- douche 10y agoI'm so glad that Raymond Chen is writing all of these stories down.
- prplhaz4 10y agoApparently there's a book of his anecdotes available for those who'd like to read more... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321440307 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321440307
- voltagex_ 10y ago>Addison-Wesley Professional; 1 edition (January 6, 2007) Although most of the anecdotes are historical, I hope he releases an updated version one day. There's so much computing history contained in his blog.
- failedPatch_002 10y agoChange the wallpaper. Oh, I thought it was going to be: Prevent users from disabling automatic updates, and require persistent internet connections, and then deploy updates every 7 days, so that users lose 10 or maybe 20 hours a week, waiting for failed patches to retry, and display ominous warning messages like "DO NOT POWER DOWN OR UNPLUG YOUR COMPUTER WHILE WE CONSTANTLY WASTE YOUR TIME WITH BULLSHIT." But I was pleasantly surprised by a different answer! Wow!
- tekklloneer 10y agoAs much as I'm not a fan of the forced automatic update (even on pro), I think your post is extremely mis-representative on multiple levels.
- kctess5 10y agoHow so?
- retox 10y ago10 hours a week to deal with patches?
- loeg 10y agoIf the PC reboots with your work unsaved, you could lose a day's work, for example.
- singlow 10y agoYou have a day's worth of unsaved work?
- bkmartin 10y agoNot really your place to judge is it? What if they are in the middle of a long running task and the machine shuts down? Maybe it takes all day to run that process intensive task? Boom updates reboot the machine and a whole day's processing was lost. It is the users' prerogative on how they want to use their machine (poor software design choices and all) and if they don't want to take an automatic update and reboot then so be it. Or what if some people like to wait a couple weeks and see if Microsoft accidentally breaks something major with an update... pretty sure that has happened before.
- gwbas1c 10y agoInclude a remotely-activated kill switch; and kill with plenty of warning. What do I mean? I no longer use iPhone because I installed a beta iOS. When the official build came out, I kept "checking for updates" but I never got an update. One day, Apple remotely killed my phone. Manually updating to the production iOS would be fine; but remotely disabling my phone without warning was not acceptable. This is why I refuse to buy an iPhone.
- jonknee 10y ago> Manually updating to the production iOS would be fine; but remotely disabling my phone without warning was not acceptable. This is why I refuse to buy an iPhone. If you're savvy enough to manually upgrade to a beta OS (which comes with tons of warnings) you should be savvy enough to then update to the production release and get all the associated further updates. That's a really bizarre reason to refuse buying an iPhone.
- ihuman 10y agoCouldn't you just put it in restore mode and install the latest version from iTunes, or manually download the IPSW from the internet and install it?
- gol706 10y agoOnce an iOS build expires, you can't take a backup, so you can do that to get the phone working again, but you lose any un-backed up data on the device like photos and app data. In the days before iCloud it was a huge pain.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- cududa 10y agoWhy didn't you just upgrade to the production build when it was released?
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- nchelluri 10y agoMan, I hope whoever thought of that got rewarded accordingly. What a surprising fix. Nice combination of low-tech/low-effort and creative. I guess this sort of thing wouldn't happen today with the always-connected, always-phoning-home world we live in.
- fit2rule 10y agoThis is such a Windows-person kind of solution. Come to think of it, I bet that this is why its so easy to change the wallpaper in Windows.
- monochromatic 10y agoWhat would the Mac-person or Linux-person solution look like?
- tedunangst 10y agoThe linux solution would provide a new mechanism to configure sound.
- monochromatic 10y ago... which wouldn't work properly until version 3.5 or so.
- serge2k 10y agoApple would issue a release saying "Don't do X. If you do X and it wipes your computer then obviously you are using your computer wrong".
- kalleboo 10y agoThe Mac solution is that nobody installs an OS X upgrade until it's at the .1 release because everyone knows the .0 release breaks everything. You only install a beta if you're suicidal.
- mhurron 10y agoIt's hard to change the wallpaper in OS X and Linux desktop environments?
- ryukafalz 10y ago>And there are some legal issues that are tied to the date a feature first becomes available to the public. Seeing a feature go public prematurely throws a bunch of scheduling into disarray because you now have to finish those legal documents in less time than you planned. As someone who's never worked for a company that produces commercial software, I'm curious about what he's referring to.
- prplhaz4 10y agoA simple example would be adding a feature that collects user information before you update the EULA to tell people that you're collecting their information. The EULA will likely need to go through multiple iterations between local and partner lawyers before the language is agreed upon - so expediting is not always an option.
- 0x0 10y agoIf you're running a pirated OS, are you really going to go to court over a missing disclaimer in the pirated EULA?!
- rodgerd 10y agoBurglars have been known to go to court over getting injured in the commission of a crime, suing the property owner.
- IntelMiner 10y agoIs this one of those "only in America" stereotypes? I'd love to see how the hell they justified that, much less if they won
- nols 10y agoThe justification for a lot of these frivolous injury lawsuits are often very similar. The person suing has thousands or tens of thousands of medical debt. They could spend years paying it off or they could look like a moron in the hopes of a settlement that will pay off the debt or at least make a dent in it. Probably the most famous case, Bodine v Enterprise High School, involved a teenager who fell through a painted over skylight while stealing (or redirecting to play basketball) a spotlight off the roof. Because of the fall he became a quadriplegic, he didn't really have much to lose suing the school district because, well, his life as he knew it was over. He had a lifetime of medical bills to pay and no way to earn an income. There are definitely plenty of scam artists or leeches or whatever you want to call them abusing the legal system because it's easier than getting a real job, but don't underestimate the people backed into a corner by debt.
- zoffix222 10y agoThe article mentions none of the evidence this strategy actually worked at all. Is it all just conjecture or are there more articles/evidence supporting this technique?
- andrewbarba 10y agoOh c'mon not everything on this site has to be riddled with statistics, trials, and evidence of something working. The article gave me a chuckle, and plays on our instinct to gravitate to shiny new things. I think all we need to take from this is not every technical problem needs a technical solution. Understanding your audience, in any product, is crucial; use it to your advantage however you can.
- patmcguire 10y agoWhere is the empirical evidence of a mother's love? Have you sent a PR for the joy of playing with a puppy in sunshine?
- sinxoveretothex 10y ago> Where is the empirical evidence of a mother's love? Everywhere? When they care for you when you're sick, drive you to sports practice, clean up after you and what not?
- bigiain 10y agoBut how do you know they're not just doing all that for the old age care and retirement benefits?</snark>
- sinxoveretothex 10y agoBecause there are absurdly rich parents who still show love for their children?
- empressplay 10y ago
- AdmiralAsshat 10y agoSeems like you could've achieved the end-goal by just warning of the danger and coming across like their safety is your primary concern rather than finding the leaks, i.e.: "Build 97241 contains a potentially fatal bug that could wipe your computer. If you are using Build 97241, please upgrade it to a more recent build or otherwise cease using this build immediately. We do not care how you acquired this build. We simply do not want you bricking your computer."
- Locke1689 10y agoThis does not work.
- devopsproject 10y agoHave you ever taken a support phone call? Many people won't read a simple error message, let alone a message that includes numbers and other "technical mumbo jumbo" customer: I'm trying print and it just says "error" me: It just says error? customer: yes me: Are there any other words or error numbers? customer: yeah, it says "No printers are installed. Add a printer and try again" me: facepalm Their solution works because it communicates a lot while saying very little
- anyfoo 10y agoThis may have been long before the Internet was the information channel for those kinds of things that it is today. Even if it was today and such a note was published on the Internet, do you think that people who use leaked builds--in at least semi-production settings even--would see that note, much less actively seek it out?
- shiggerino 10y agoSince those things are already so riddled with DRM, why not simply make the internal builds phone home to an activation server that only allows IPs assigned to Microsoft?
- anyfoo 10y agoThe story, like a lot of stories on the Old New Thing, appears to be from a now faraway time (in Information Technology terms). Think Windows 95 timeframe. They are practically always worth a read, by the way. I'm a huge fan of the blog.
- slipstream- 10y agoSo, default wallpapers in early Windows 95 builds. The first Preliminary Development Kit had an "Under Construction" wallpaper. The second one had the same wallpaper but tiled. Beta 1 had a different "Under Construction" wallpaper. Of course, after PDK1 leaked far and wide, MS implemented some serial protection in PDK2 up to beta 2 (different from the one in the RTM; however the RTM's setup has remnants of it). Given that the leakers were involved with the warez scene, however, the skilled reversers that the builds were passed to easily found the backdoor that had been put in so that those on MS' internal network didn't have to enter the serial, and just patched a few bytes in the setup to abuse that. The interesting part of this serial was that it was in two parts. One part was the "beta site ID" and half of the "password"; if this was valid, but the second half of the password wasn't, setup would appear to continue... until the point it would copy files, upon which it errored out with a message "General error 57, please contact your beta administrator". This misdirection was discussed at the time, with some people believing the error at face value. This continued with the foundation of communities to preserve and discuss such builds several years onwards. The last half of the password was the hex form of the first 16 bits of an MD4 hash (this code was written in around autumn 1993!) of the beta site ID, the first half of the password, and... a string inside the setup that was used as the titlebar text for the error message, which would be something like "Microsoft Chicago Preliminary Development Kit 2, November 1993". This part of the serial algorithm was finally reverse engineered, and a key generator made....in 2014. Afterwards, some early Internet Explorer 4.0 builds were discovered. They used the exact same serial algorithm as the early Windows 95 builds. And had the exact same "MS internal" backdoor. (Um, I think I may have just ruined one of Raymond Chen's future blog posts.)
- cmdrfred 10y agoI don't understand the logic here. 1. Download a preview build because you want "the latest and greatest". 2. Build is full of horrible bugs. 3. Microsoft needs to employ psychological tricks to get you to download the next preview build, as you cling to the previous one with both hands.
- runesoerensen 10y agoThere might be more reasons, but here is the author's answer to a similar question: The imperative is that these machines can screw up the network they are connected to, so they’re affecting other machines. Generally, people don’t look kindly when a Windows system starts screwing up a network. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20160906-00/?p=94255#comment-1263975 https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20160906-00/?p=...
- cwyers 10y agoBandwidth was a LOT harder to come by back then. You'd download a preview build if it had a feature if you were interested in. "Associated bugfixes" was typically not exciting enough to download an ISO file over a phone line.
- yongjik 10y agoHeh, sounds much better than my previous employer's way of occasionally sending company-wide emails along the line of "The employee who was responsible for the XXX leak was found and terminated. We remind you that leaks damage our culture and make it difficult to share ideas inside the company." For some reason such emails made me feel like I was inside a tech cult. Guess my culture fit wasn't good enough... Well, to be fair, I guess MS also utilizes these emails in addition to reverse psychology...
- j28xfc5qsc 10y agoI never received an email like that when I worked at Microsoft. Granted, maybe they would send emails like that within a specific department, and my department was probably less prone to leaks.
- verst 10y agoGoogle right? I used to work there too. I thought Google was especially open internally, which really allowed me to thrive.
- yongjik 10y agoYeah, I really liked Google's internal openness too, but the way they protected it felt a bit overzealous. As if I'm live-action roleplaying a spy organization or something. Almost nobody seemed to have any problem with it, so I guess it's just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- awqrre 10y agoMicrosoft forced millions to upgrade to Windows 10... it would be trivial to force an upgrade to a different build...
- rtkwe 10y agoSnark is easy but a lot of these stories are from long before the whole Win 10 upgrade and is explicitly from before Windows Insider which puts it at least before 2014.
- awqrre 10y agoBut Windows Update is from way before all those stories... and if they needed help figuring out how to upgrade an OS, they could have looked at Linux (which I'm sure they did)...
- rtkwe 10y agoAutomatic updates started in about 2000ish and hard forced updates are even newer iirc. Before that the best they could do is a notification which people running a leaked build would probably ignore or not get at all, who knows what the Windows Update infrastructure is like for internal builds that get leaked.
- aftbit 10y agoThe modern version of this is to add a new emoji. Apple used that to push out a major point fix in Yosemite.
- jedberg 10y agoIn this thread: A bunch of people who clearly never installed an operating system in the Time Before Automatic Internet Connections.
- dudeitssunny 10y agohaha hats off to you MS.....except now I know your tricks.
- voltagex_ 10y agoSeems like the "real" fix was the Windows Insider program. I'm still not sure why (myself included) people do testing for Microsoft for free, though.
- AstralStorm 10y agoSome people like to be the first to try out and talk about upcoming new features and messups.
- kelukelugames 10y agoWhat if MS made the wallpaper of the internal builds super ugly?
- B1FF_PSUVM 10y agoAh, psychology. Must be what the "OneDrive team" is using. So you have all these people who bought Lumia phones, enjoying 30 GB of cloud storage, 15 of them acquired with the phone purchase. Cut it down to 5 GB with an announcement in a blog post, and watch the customers leaving in droves. Problem solved.
- yandie 10y agoI work with big catalog data, and with lots of human input. We have these internal classifications but people mis-assign items all the time. I was horrified when I learned about the state of our datasets. The only reliable features are the ones that are exposed to the customers on the website, because when they're broken people can actually see them.
- AstralStorm 10y agoThe other approach is to use time limited builds, like Google does with many alpha and beta versions in their Android toolchain. After the timeout, force the users to update or fully lock it down. With a nice message why it is happening, of course. Crackers will bypass any kind of protection or change anyway.