7 ms·

App Store Improvements

79 points by jefflinwood 10y ago

lalos 10y ago
Does Apple have metrics on which apps are used and how frequently or they only have metrics on installations and updates? That would be an easy way to filter which apps deserve another review.
- MBCook 10y ago
  I'm almost positive they have those metrics if you opt-in, they may have basic versions of it if you don't. At a minimum they know what you purchased and when updates are made to apps. Plus they have some sorts of automated testing they could run.
e28eta 10y ago
The email announcement also said they're restricting app names to 50 characters. Nice to see some changes.
BinaryIdiot 10y ago
This is great and is something that should be done to the Play store (or maybe it is but it's ineffective?). I can't tell you how many times I redownload an app I had on an old phone and apparently it hasn't been updated since like 2012 and it simply crashes on start on the newer versions of Android and yet it still let's me download and install it. Very frustrating.
- duskwuff 10y ago
  FWIW, the same situation would exist on iOS, at least to some degree. The removed apps will no longer show up in the store, but will still be available to users who had previously downloaded them.
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    Really? I was under the impression once an app was removed from the iOS App Store it was unavailable for download even to those who previously had it.
    - MBCook 10y ago
      No, except in extraordinary circumstances users can get it if they had it. What used to happen is someone would sneak a GameBoy emulator into and app and people would RUSH to download it, because it would be pulled in hours. Maybe they didn't want a GameBoy emulator but if they ever did they'd be able to download it later. There are a few cases where Apple has pulled an app TOTALLY so even existing users can't get it, but I don't think it's ever been done more than once or twice.
SmellTheGlove 10y ago
I wonder if this had anything to do with the jailbreak app recently going live on the App Store for a few hours. There might be some renewed emphasis on store content after that slipped through.
- ChristianGeek 10y ago
  Unlikely...a jailbreak app makes it to the store at least once or twice a year.
  - illnewsthat 10y ago
    Do you have any source for that? I believe this was the first occurrence of a jailbreaking app that was available from the App Store itself.
- MBCook 10y ago
  If that was the case I don't think they'd be focusing on old and non-updated apps as well. The fact this is announced 1 week before an event says they're probably trying to get some info out without wasting time in the conference, the way they announced the app subscription stuff the week before WWDC. This is probably just (LONG) needed cleanup that they're starting to do.
MBCook 10y ago
This has been so desperately needed for years, but the conventional wisdom was Apple cared more about being able to claim that they had 12 million apps (or whatever) than 2 million decent apps. I've searched in the last few months and found apps that had screenshots that were clearly from iOS 4 or 5. David Smith said he had been working on a piece before this was announced (1) and believed about 50% of apps never got updated. Also the fixes to stop things from being named "Candy Soul Saga Crush Game Match Three Slots For The Win Pokemon Insurance Dating Fun Free Time" is a serious improvement too. Random idea based on other stuff I saw app developers talking about on Twitter the other day: is this the first steps in going 64-bit only next year? If the apps haven't been updated they can be pulled before iOS 11 comes out and then OS update wouldn't get blamed. 1) https://twitter.com/_DavidSmith/status/771405838607089665 https://twitter.com/_DavidSmith/status/771405838607089665
- ChristianGeek 10y ago
  I've had an app in there since there were less than 1,000 apps in the entire store. It still works, but I haven't updated it. Been waiting for Apple to pull it...surprised it's taken this long.
  - drivingmenuts 10y ago
    Can you not request that they pull it?
    - lstamour 10y ago
      Yes, you can remove it from the store. Past purchasers can still download it but only from their Purchases page.
- bruxis 10y ago
  Guess now they'll have to settle for just "Candy Soul Saga Crush Game Match Three Slots FTW"
  - duskwuff 10y ago
longsangstan 10y ago
There are 2 million apps on the App Store... they are going to review every single app? From my experience the app review team is very inefficient and dealing with them is a very unpleasant experience.
- eric_h 10y ago
  I would imagine that crash on launch culling can be completely automated.
  - MBCook 10y ago
    They can run them in simulators for that, easily search their metadata for those that haven't been updated since date X or were compiled for iOS 6 or 7 or some other OS that they decide to use as a cutoff point.
incongruity 10y ago
In some ways, it's actually an improvement to the offerings of the App Store and less a direct improvement to the App Store itself, from the consumer's perspective. It's a good step, but the store experience is still a bit busted, IMHO.
pkamb 10y ago
> don’t follow current review guidelines Will this culling apply to the Mac App Store? What's going to happen to the many grandfathered non-sandboxed Mac apps?
- hn_user2 10y ago
  Can't say for sure, but if they follow their past patterns, then I would guess that they will continue to work fine. And if you delete and want to re-install they will be available under Previous Purchases. But of course would not be available to you on a different apple id which had not downloaded it prior to it being pulled from the store.
  - pkamb 10y ago
    Yeah, I'm wondering if they're now going to be pulled from the store for "violating" the sandbox guideline (despite previously being grandfathered in).
kccqzy 10y ago
It might be an unpopular opinion but I still have apps from iOS 4 that works perfectly fine on my iPhone running iOS 9. To me this is a testament of the great engineering that allows this iOS 4 app to be binary compatible with iOS 9. Sure the apps won't use the latest APIs and they look a little blurry (because screens have gotten larger) but they still work fine and I don't want apple to kill them, making a cloud backup restore impossible.
- randyrand 10y ago
  Which apps? Just curious!
- jyunderwood 10y ago
  You, as a user, will still be able to see the app in your purchased list and download the latest version, according to the FAQ. I think this is only removing them from the app store for new sales.
- jads 10y ago
  But if the developer has, for whatever reason, chosen not to update the app to support retina displays, larger screens, and anything else that would benefit the user, isn't that an indication that the app is abandoned? Even if the functionality doesn't fundamentally change, it's not a good sign if the look of the app has been neglected. I'm sure the vast majority of apps this affects are mostly rotting away with broken functionality. Worse still, there are many apps that could definitely benefit from newer APIs. There's no doubt that this new ruling is going to have some edge cases where old, but perfectly functional, apps are lost - but there is a grace period that developers of these older apps can work in to update them and keep them listed. This is a good compromise - Apple issues a store-wide ultimatum to developers and any that are still interested in keeping their apps listed will update them. Those that aren't will need to do nothing. If any of your apps disappear, it stands to reason the developer has abandoned it.
  - esrauch 10y ago
    I think his point was that "developer has abandoned it" doesn't imply the app has no value.
bpicolo 10y ago
My favorite guitar tuner app no longer works, sadly, as of this or last version. I paid for it originally, which is not -really- a sore spot, but also sort of a quirky thing. Paying for something that just doesn't work at some point in software because of how upgrade cycles work is interesting. Do wish I could find a simple guitar tuner that doesn't spam me with ads these days though. =(
- s_kilk 10y ago
  I'm using Guitar Toolkit, it's pretty good.
- nodamage 10y ago
  > Paying for something that just doesn't work at some point in software because of how upgrade cycles work is interesting. Isn't this just the nature of software though? I mean, my DOS and Win 3.1 software no longer works either...
  - ghaff 10y ago
    >I mean, my DOS and Win 3.1 software no longer works either... Don't know about Windows 3.1 but I'm guessing you could install DOS in a VM with associated software. (I've had DOS running on relatively modern machines but it's been a while.)
  - toyg 10y ago
    Let me introduce you to this thing called DOSBOX, it's quite awesome: https://www.dosbox.com/ https://www.dosbox.com/ The sad thing is that, the way the appstore works, we will likely never get a "iosbox".
    - nodamage 10y ago
      While DOSBox is indeed neat, I think the underlying point is that it's probably not reasonable to expect a piece of software written in a particular era for a particular operating system to be supported indefinitely.
WayneBro 10y ago
I would like A flag that tells me whether the app contains ads or not. It really sucks to download and install an app just to find out that it displays ads. I don't use apps that have ads.
- elkabong 10y ago
  So, you mostly use premium/paid apps?
  - r00fus 10y ago
    Not original commenter, but yes. And I agree with his position. Back on topic, does this mean that this new policy, Apps will get delisted, or will I no longer be able to download the binary?
- tobltobs 10y ago
  Isn't it a bit displaced to bitch about ads in apps in a thread which is about a topic which is about how developers need time and effort just to keep apps in the store. If you have so much problem with ads than just use only apps which cost money. The free ones are to 99% funded by ads or by using your personal data. There is nothing like a free lunch in a store.
  - MBCook 10y ago
    The problem is there are a TON of low-effort apps that are free and have ads. So if you want a good app you have to trudge through a ton of them in search results to find an app that isn't effectively a tool to trick people into ads. If you could choose to see only paid apps or those with IAPs you'd have an easier time finding apps that weren't trying to shove an ad in your face. Some apps do ads very well. Some acceptably. MANY do not. AT ALL.
  - WayneBro 10y ago
    Well, the thread is about "App Store Improvements". That's the title of the post. Also, I AM a mobile developer... I mostly browse the web on my iPad. I use very few premium apps. Procreate was the last one that I purchased. Anyway - please explain to me why should I pay $4.99 for a simple network utility that lets me do PING, NSLOOKUP, TRACEROUTE, etc? Do you really have a problem if I spend my time searching for a free app that doesn't have ads before I decide to buy one? And why do you think I should be responsible for supporting developers who spent a whole week building some low-hanging-fruit app? As a matter of fact, I know how to build both native and hybrid iOS apps, so sometimes if I can't find an app I just build it myself. I can't imagine anyone having a problem with that. Well, except for Apple. I don't like Apple very much so I avoid giving them any money at all if I can. I always buy used or refurbished Apple hardware from Amazon, Ebay and other places and I think long and hard before purchasing any iOS app since Apple gets 30%.

79 points by jefflinwood 10y ago

lalos 10y ago

Does Apple have metrics on which apps are used and how frequently or they only have metrics on installations and updates? That would be an easy way to filter which apps deserve another review.

MBCook 10y ago
I'm almost positive they have those metrics if you opt-in, they may have basic versions of it if you don't. At a minimum they know what you purchased and when updates are made to apps. Plus they have some sorts of automated testing they could run.

e28eta 10y ago

The email announcement also said they're restricting app names to 50 characters. Nice to see some changes.

BinaryIdiot 10y ago

This is great and is something that should be done to the Play store (or maybe it is but it's ineffective?). I can't tell you how many times I redownload an app I had on an old phone and apparently it hasn't been updated since like 2012 and it simply crashes on start on the newer versions of Android and yet it still let's me download and install it. Very frustrating.

duskwuff 10y ago
FWIW, the same situation would exist on iOS, at least to some degree. The removed apps will no longer show up in the store, but will still be available to users who had previously downloaded them.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  Really? I was under the impression once an app was removed from the iOS App Store it was unavailable for download even to those who previously had it.
  - MBCook 10y ago
    No, except in extraordinary circumstances users can get it if they had it. What used to happen is someone would sneak a GameBoy emulator into and app and people would RUSH to download it, because it would be pulled in hours. Maybe they didn't want a GameBoy emulator but if they ever did they'd be able to download it later. There are a few cases where Apple has pulled an app TOTALLY so even existing users can't get it, but I don't think it's ever been done more than once or twice.

SmellTheGlove 10y ago

I wonder if this had anything to do with the jailbreak app recently going live on the App Store for a few hours. There might be some renewed emphasis on store content after that slipped through.

ChristianGeek 10y ago
Unlikely...a jailbreak app makes it to the store at least once or twice a year.
- illnewsthat 10y ago
  Do you have any source for that? I believe this was the first occurrence of a jailbreaking app that was available from the App Store itself.
MBCook 10y ago
If that was the case I don't think they'd be focusing on old and non-updated apps as well. The fact this is announced 1 week before an event says they're probably trying to get some info out without wasting time in the conference, the way they announced the app subscription stuff the week before WWDC. This is probably just (LONG) needed cleanup that they're starting to do.

MBCook 10y ago

This has been so desperately needed for years, but the conventional wisdom was Apple cared more about being able to claim that they had 12 million apps (or whatever) than 2 million decent apps. I've searched in the last few months and found apps that had screenshots that were clearly from iOS 4 or 5. David Smith said he had been working on a piece before this was announced (1) and believed about 50% of apps never got updated. Also the fixes to stop things from being named "Candy Soul Saga Crush Game Match Three Slots For The Win Pokemon Insurance Dating Fun Free Time" is a serious improvement too. Random idea based on other stuff I saw app developers talking about on Twitter the other day: is this the first steps in going 64-bit only next year? If the apps haven't been updated they can be pulled before iOS 11 comes out and then OS update wouldn't get blamed. 1) https://twitter.com/_DavidSmith/status/771405838607089665 https://twitter.com/_DavidSmith/status/771405838607089665

ChristianGeek 10y ago
I've had an app in there since there were less than 1,000 apps in the entire store. It still works, but I haven't updated it. Been waiting for Apple to pull it...surprised it's taken this long.
- drivingmenuts 10y ago
  Can you not request that they pull it?
  - lstamour 10y ago
    Yes, you can remove it from the store. Past purchasers can still download it but only from their Purchases page.
bruxis 10y ago
Guess now they'll have to settle for just "Candy Soul Saga Crush Game Match Three Slots FTW"
- duskwuff 10y ago

longsangstan 10y ago

There are 2 million apps on the App Store... they are going to review every single app? From my experience the app review team is very inefficient and dealing with them is a very unpleasant experience.

eric_h 10y ago
I would imagine that crash on launch culling can be completely automated.
- MBCook 10y ago
  They can run them in simulators for that, easily search their metadata for those that haven't been updated since date X or were compiled for iOS 6 or 7 or some other OS that they decide to use as a cutoff point.

incongruity 10y ago

In some ways, it's actually an improvement to the offerings of the App Store and less a direct improvement to the App Store itself, from the consumer's perspective. It's a good step, but the store experience is still a bit busted, IMHO.

pkamb 10y ago

> don’t follow current review guidelines Will this culling apply to the Mac App Store? What's going to happen to the many grandfathered non-sandboxed Mac apps?

hn_user2 10y ago
Can't say for sure, but if they follow their past patterns, then I would guess that they will continue to work fine. And if you delete and want to re-install they will be available under Previous Purchases. But of course would not be available to you on a different apple id which had not downloaded it prior to it being pulled from the store.
- pkamb 10y ago
  Yeah, I'm wondering if they're now going to be pulled from the store for "violating" the sandbox guideline (despite previously being grandfathered in).

kccqzy 10y ago

It might be an unpopular opinion but I still have apps from iOS 4 that works perfectly fine on my iPhone running iOS 9. To me this is a testament of the great engineering that allows this iOS 4 app to be binary compatible with iOS 9. Sure the apps won't use the latest APIs and they look a little blurry (because screens have gotten larger) but they still work fine and I don't want apple to kill them, making a cloud backup restore impossible.

randyrand 10y ago
Which apps? Just curious!
jyunderwood 10y ago
You, as a user, will still be able to see the app in your purchased list and download the latest version, according to the FAQ. I think this is only removing them from the app store for new sales.
jads 10y ago
But if the developer has, for whatever reason, chosen not to update the app to support retina displays, larger screens, and anything else that would benefit the user, isn't that an indication that the app is abandoned? Even if the functionality doesn't fundamentally change, it's not a good sign if the look of the app has been neglected. I'm sure the vast majority of apps this affects are mostly rotting away with broken functionality. Worse still, there are many apps that could definitely benefit from newer APIs. There's no doubt that this new ruling is going to have some edge cases where old, but perfectly functional, apps are lost - but there is a grace period that developers of these older apps can work in to update them and keep them listed. This is a good compromise - Apple issues a store-wide ultimatum to developers and any that are still interested in keeping their apps listed will update them. Those that aren't will need to do nothing. If any of your apps disappear, it stands to reason the developer has abandoned it.
- esrauch 10y ago
  I think his point was that "developer has abandoned it" doesn't imply the app has no value.

bpicolo 10y ago

My favorite guitar tuner app no longer works, sadly, as of this or last version. I paid for it originally, which is not -really- a sore spot, but also sort of a quirky thing. Paying for something that just doesn't work at some point in software because of how upgrade cycles work is interesting. Do wish I could find a simple guitar tuner that doesn't spam me with ads these days though. =(

s_kilk 10y ago
I'm using Guitar Toolkit, it's pretty good.
nodamage 10y ago
> Paying for something that just doesn't work at some point in software because of how upgrade cycles work is interesting. Isn't this just the nature of software though? I mean, my DOS and Win 3.1 software no longer works either...
- ghaff 10y ago
  >I mean, my DOS and Win 3.1 software no longer works either... Don't know about Windows 3.1 but I'm guessing you could install DOS in a VM with associated software. (I've had DOS running on relatively modern machines but it's been a while.)
- toyg 10y ago
  Let me introduce you to this thing called DOSBOX, it's quite awesome: https://www.dosbox.com/ https://www.dosbox.com/ The sad thing is that, the way the appstore works, we will likely never get a "iosbox".
  - nodamage 10y ago
    While DOSBox is indeed neat, I think the underlying point is that it's probably not reasonable to expect a piece of software written in a particular era for a particular operating system to be supported indefinitely.

WayneBro 10y ago

I would like A flag that tells me whether the app contains ads or not. It really sucks to download and install an app just to find out that it displays ads. I don't use apps that have ads.

elkabong 10y ago
So, you mostly use premium/paid apps?
- r00fus 10y ago
  Not original commenter, but yes. And I agree with his position. Back on topic, does this mean that this new policy, Apps will get delisted, or will I no longer be able to download the binary?
tobltobs 10y ago
Isn't it a bit displaced to bitch about ads in apps in a thread which is about a topic which is about how developers need time and effort just to keep apps in the store. If you have so much problem with ads than just use only apps which cost money. The free ones are to 99% funded by ads or by using your personal data. There is nothing like a free lunch in a store.
- MBCook 10y ago
  The problem is there are a TON of low-effort apps that are free and have ads. So if you want a good app you have to trudge through a ton of them in search results to find an app that isn't effectively a tool to trick people into ads. If you could choose to see only paid apps or those with IAPs you'd have an easier time finding apps that weren't trying to shove an ad in your face. Some apps do ads very well. Some acceptably. MANY do not. AT ALL.
- WayneBro 10y ago
  Well, the thread is about "App Store Improvements". That's the title of the post. Also, I AM a mobile developer... I mostly browse the web on my iPad. I use very few premium apps. Procreate was the last one that I purchased. Anyway - please explain to me why should I pay $4.99 for a simple network utility that lets me do PING, NSLOOKUP, TRACEROUTE, etc? Do you really have a problem if I spend my time searching for a free app that doesn't have ads before I decide to buy one? And why do you think I should be responsible for supporting developers who spent a whole week building some low-hanging-fruit app? As a matter of fact, I know how to build both native and hybrid iOS apps, so sometimes if I can't find an app I just build it myself. I can't imagine anyone having a problem with that. Well, except for Apple. I don't like Apple very much so I avoid giving them any money at all if I can. I always buy used or refurbished Apple hardware from Amazon, Ebay and other places and I think long and hard before purchasing any iOS app since Apple gets 30%.