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If Doctrow sounds like a broken record, I can't hold it against him. These are points that need to be made repeatedly and loudly-- voices that oppose these kind

If Doctrow sounds like a broken record, I can't hold it against him. These are points that need to be made repeatedly and loudly-- voices that oppose these kinds of closed platforms are sorely missing, by and large.

DeusExMachina 17y ago
I don't think that these voices are useful. I don't claim they are right or wrong, but I think they are useless. If the iPad is such a bad platform, developers/publishers/users will understand it and abandon the ship. But, for now, it does not matter how many times these concepts are reiterated. People already have decided wether to buy/develop for/publish on iPad or not. Very few will change their mind reading these pieces (or the opposite sided ones).
- pavs 17y ago
  Its bad in the sense that its a "closed" platform, where you are at the mercy of the manufacturer. Not bad in the sense that its a horrible product and developers can't make money from it. There are some very good arguments both for and against ipad, and it is important to have these discussions openly as often as possible. Popular game consoles like PS and Xbox are good examples of closed system that is good for business but bad for innovation. Price and market are tightly controlled.
  - discipline 17y ago
    I really wish someone in the know would reply to your post because I think you have the most salient point. In fact, do the same open source advocates decry the Playstation and Nintendo platforms?
    - bitwize 17y ago
      YES. Have you been following the kerfuffle behind Other OS yankage?
    - pavs 17y ago
      I don't think I can be considered an open source advocate. But the basic premise of open source ideology (the way I understand it) is no limitation in any form or shape. When you buy a hardware (or software), you should not be subject to artificial limitations imposed by the manufacturer. PS3 is a very good example IMO. It comes with very powerful hardware, which you paid for, but you are only limited to rules placed by sony. As a matter of fact Sony goes through a lot of trouble to make it almost imposible to do anything else with the hardware. Similarly, I should be able to install any app on my iphone/ipad that is not approved by Apple without have to go through hoops of cracking the device.
      - pyre 17y ago
        Or at the very least Apple shouldn't spend so much time making it impossible to crack the device. If I've already proven that I'm willing to jump through the pain to get a cracked device, maybe that's a sign that I don't necessarily want "exactly" what Apple wants for me. It's already a barrier to entry, so why not just leave it so. It's not like the majority of users will just 'stumble' into a cracked device.
    - wmf 17y ago
      Game consoles are less dangerous than iPads because consoles are not replacements for a computer. If someone has a console and a PC they still have some freedom, but if someone only has an iPad, an iPhone, and a console they're totally walled in.
    - mattmcknight 17y ago
      It's not an open source argument, it's open platform argument. I should have the right to do what I want to what I buy.
- stanleydrew 17y ago
  I think you underestimate the ability of Apple (or any company really) to stimulate demand for bad platforms/products. They have a lot of money which gives them a lot of power to make really pretty things and market them so that people want them.
timr 17y ago
Not really. It's a consumer electronics device, not a religion. If you don't like it because you can't (easily) open it up and change the battery, you don't have to buy it. Only geeks care that geeks don't like the iPad -- and from what I can tell, it doesn't bother Apple much, either. They're selling plenty of iPads to the other 99% of the world. My grandfather used to complain that "cars these days" can't be repaired without taking them to the shop because of the "damned computers." He was wrong, too.
- cryptoz 17y ago
  My understanding is that he thinks the trend itself is dangerous, not just the device. By not purchasing an iPad, he is protesting (with his dollars) against closed-computing. The protest does need to be loud, because of this: Most of the world does not know or care about how closed the iPad is; we all know, however, that the world should have open computers and not closed ones because that creates a better experience for consumers in the long run. That's why he's fighting the fight.
  - timr 17y ago
    The guy in the park with the "Jesus Saves" sign thinks his protest needs to be loud, too. The point is, Cory Doctorow is in a small, small minority. The minority isn't small because people don't know what he's saying -- it's small because they don't care. He's protesting the very philosophy that gives Apple products the quality that people who buy Apple products desire. And honestly, making the openness of Apple products your raison d'etre is a bit like getting furious about the mechanical details of your favorite brand of dishwasher. The answer is always the same: don't like it? Don't buy it. Cory is more than welcome to continue to post these sorts of rants on his blog, of course, but let's not turn them into more than what they are: one guy, forcefully advocating an opinion about something that really doesn't matter that much to most people, and that he can't really change.
    - stanleydrew 17y ago
      "Jesus Saves" isn't backed up by any facts. Consider this as more of an educational campaign, to proclaim loudly the facts about these devices and why alternatives might be more attractive.

DeusExMachina 17y ago

I don't think that these voices are useful. I don't claim they are right or wrong, but I think they are useless. If the iPad is such a bad platform, developers/publishers/users will understand it and abandon the ship. But, for now, it does not matter how many times these concepts are reiterated. People already have decided wether to buy/develop for/publish on iPad or not. Very few will change their mind reading these pieces (or the opposite sided ones).

pavs 17y ago
Its bad in the sense that its a "closed" platform, where you are at the mercy of the manufacturer. Not bad in the sense that its a horrible product and developers can't make money from it. There are some very good arguments both for and against ipad, and it is important to have these discussions openly as often as possible. Popular game consoles like PS and Xbox are good examples of closed system that is good for business but bad for innovation. Price and market are tightly controlled.
- discipline 17y ago
  I really wish someone in the know would reply to your post because I think you have the most salient point. In fact, do the same open source advocates decry the Playstation and Nintendo platforms?
  - bitwize 17y ago
    YES. Have you been following the kerfuffle behind Other OS yankage?
  - pavs 17y ago
    I don't think I can be considered an open source advocate. But the basic premise of open source ideology (the way I understand it) is no limitation in any form or shape. When you buy a hardware (or software), you should not be subject to artificial limitations imposed by the manufacturer. PS3 is a very good example IMO. It comes with very powerful hardware, which you paid for, but you are only limited to rules placed by sony. As a matter of fact Sony goes through a lot of trouble to make it almost imposible to do anything else with the hardware. Similarly, I should be able to install any app on my iphone/ipad that is not approved by Apple without have to go through hoops of cracking the device.
    - pyre 17y ago
      Or at the very least Apple shouldn't spend so much time making it impossible to crack the device. If I've already proven that I'm willing to jump through the pain to get a cracked device, maybe that's a sign that I don't necessarily want "exactly" what Apple wants for me. It's already a barrier to entry, so why not just leave it so. It's not like the majority of users will just 'stumble' into a cracked device.
  - wmf 17y ago
    Game consoles are less dangerous than iPads because consoles are not replacements for a computer. If someone has a console and a PC they still have some freedom, but if someone only has an iPad, an iPhone, and a console they're totally walled in.
  - mattmcknight 17y ago
    It's not an open source argument, it's open platform argument. I should have the right to do what I want to what I buy.
stanleydrew 17y ago
I think you underestimate the ability of Apple (or any company really) to stimulate demand for bad platforms/products. They have a lot of money which gives them a lot of power to make really pretty things and market them so that people want them.

timr 17y ago

Not really. It's a consumer electronics device, not a religion. If you don't like it because you can't (easily) open it up and change the battery, you don't have to buy it. Only geeks care that geeks don't like the iPad -- and from what I can tell, it doesn't bother Apple much, either. They're selling plenty of iPads to the other 99% of the world. My grandfather used to complain that "cars these days" can't be repaired without taking them to the shop because of the "damned computers." He was wrong, too.

cryptoz 17y ago
My understanding is that he thinks the trend itself is dangerous, not just the device. By not purchasing an iPad, he is protesting (with his dollars) against closed-computing. The protest does need to be loud, because of this: Most of the world does not know or care about how closed the iPad is; we all know, however, that the world should have open computers and not closed ones because that creates a better experience for consumers in the long run. That's why he's fighting the fight.
- timr 17y ago
  The guy in the park with the "Jesus Saves" sign thinks his protest needs to be loud, too. The point is, Cory Doctorow is in a small, small minority. The minority isn't small because people don't know what he's saying -- it's small because they don't care. He's protesting the very philosophy that gives Apple products the quality that people who buy Apple products desire. And honestly, making the openness of Apple products your raison d'etre is a bit like getting furious about the mechanical details of your favorite brand of dishwasher. The answer is always the same: don't like it? Don't buy it. Cory is more than welcome to continue to post these sorts of rants on his blog, of course, but let's not turn them into more than what they are: one guy, forcefully advocating an opinion about something that really doesn't matter that much to most people, and that he can't really change.
  - stanleydrew 17y ago
    "Jesus Saves" isn't backed up by any facts. Consider this as more of an educational campaign, to proclaim loudly the facts about these devices and why alternatives might be more attractive.