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Microsoft Has Broken Millions of Webcams with Windows 10 Anniversary Update
- yarrel 10y agoThereby accidentally improving the privacy of their users in the middle of their current drive to destroy it.
- sickbeard 10y agoMore curious why Skype team didn't run their product on the anniversary update before they release it. Does Microsoft not do QA?
- dewiz 10y agoQA is disappearing in MS, replaced by a couple of buzzwords: "cross functional" and "DevOps". i.e. noone has a clue about what they are accountable for, and individual teams come up with their definitions of done.
- godzillabrennus 10y agoThey are following Apples lead I'm afraid.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
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- ry_ry 10y agoLast time I checked I was able to remotely bluescreen mt windows 10 box at home by trying to pair Bluetooth headphones with it. Asus dongle with WHQL drivers. Despite being amusing to drive-by my wife whilst she was watching cat videos on Facebook, it did make me acutely aware that testing every conceivable hardware combo is a big ask, even for MS. Still, this seems like something they absolutely should have picked up with even rudimentary QA - millions of users represents a non-trivial profile, and they would surely have been aware of the update. I'd assume the Skype QA cycle is focused on new releases of their own codebase rather than an ongoing maintenance cycle? The take-away here is MS need to internally flag potentially breaking changes more thoroughly.
- 0xmohit 10y ago> Microsoft loves Linux. Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12313179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12313179 So it seems that it not only Linux, but also Mac. So much that it's making every desperate move to make users switch over to these alternates. Well done!
- curt15 10y agoSo it's not just Linux that breaks things with updates...
- striking 10y agoLinux breaks things with updates? Would you like to share an example with the class?
- mjevans 10y agoUsually it's a /major/ update. Like going to a whole new version of libc. If it isn't planned out properly you could end up needing to do a re-install (which would be like upgrading from one version of Windows to another; except that generally all of your settings are actually kept as they live in /etc and/or ~/ ). Having said that, I've performed an uncounted greater number of upgrades than I can remember and have only OCCASIONALLY hit this issue, and it was always when I was doing something outside of the distribution recommended set of instructions (more akin to trying to go from WinXP directly to Win10 without any intermediate upgrades).
- daenney 10y agoPlease don't stoop to the same level as the original comment. You can say or believe all you want but no operating system or *nix distribution is free of bugs and updates are known to have caused regressions on either side. There's plenty examples out there of Linux kernel regressions that have been introduced along the route, there's even a full paper on tracking them. Then there's plenty of examples of things breaking on upgrades in Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/CentOS/Arch, systemd caused some trouble too and so on and so forth, and not just on major boundaries.
- striking 10y agoIt was a joke. I'm not "stooping" to anyone's level; that's not a very nice thing to say. I was simply curious why the parent commenter had an axe to grind with Linux. Everything has its bugs.
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- vyrotek 10y agoOdd, I literally have the same Logitech C920 webcam shown in the article and got the Win10 update the day it was released and have had no issues whatsoever.
- mark-r 10y agoIt might also have to do with the software you use with it. Could be that the problem is much smaller than the article would lead you to believe.
- mtgx 10y ago"Move fast and break things" doesn't work that well for operating systems.
- mark-r 10y agoYou can't call it "move fast" when the earliest they'll have a fix is sometime in September...
- Sylos 10y agoWell, at least not for operating systems targeting the majority of the population. You'll always find some masochist, who will gladly take something that moves even faster and breaks even more things. - Sent from my openSUSE Tumbleweed installation
- Karunamon 10y agoHoo boy. If I were a professional Youtube / Twitch streamer, I'd be evaluating my legal options right about now.
- vlunkr 10y agoExcept you probably wouldn't be using a Logitech webcam if that were the case
- arca_vorago 10y agoHonestly, what would you be using? I have been deploying the higher end logitechs for online meetings and training, no issues so far.
- Throwaway23412 10y agohttp://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-webcams http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-webcams Unless you're making an independent film or something, I would think that a high end webcam does a great job for professional streamers and online meetings. Even the cameras in modern laptops and smartphones do a good enough job.
- vlunkr 10y agoOk I guess I don't know about twitch streamers. But professional YouTubers generally use real video cameras. Because they're not streaming live.
- 0x0 10y ago"It was important for us to enable concurrent camera access" -> tinfoil hat mode: cortana is secretly spying on you through the web cam. https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-US/9d6a8704-764f-46df-a41c-8e9d84f7f0f3/mjpg-encoded-media-type-is-not-available-for-usbuvc-webcameras-after-windows-10-version-1607-os?forum=mediafoundationdevelopment#fc5c100a-c661-43cd-9540-bb4591e3d1fe https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-U...
- throwanem 10y agoFinally a compelling reason to upgrade.
- striking 10y agoSee, I'm okay with them adding concurrent camera access, because I still recall the days I was using Skype on XP and would get blue screens if anything else forgot to close the webcam. That's true though: why is it important for them?
- 0x0 10y agoAnd why not make it a new opt-in API for new applications? What it should have been: Run an old API app -> exclusive webcam access. Run new/updated API apps -> concurrent webcam access. To think, Microsoft used to be all about preserving backwards compatibility to the extreme.
- izacus 10y agoBecause history shows that developers don't update their apps and drivers if they're not forced to. As such this change would be pointless if a crappy team, like Skype :P, would refuse to update their API and would block concurrent access for all other apps.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- mintplant 10y agoIt also switched my default web browser from Firefox to Edge and replaced the Firefox icon I'd pinned to my taskbar with an Edge one in the same position. Switching back required clicking a small link on an extra scare prompt buried in the control panel where the large, default button was to stick with Edge. No wonder its market share seems to be ticking up. In addition the update cleared a bunch of my settings, including silently switching on some of the privacy-questionable features I'd opted out of previously. The update process itself wasn't pleasant, either: while I was away from my desk my laptop woke up from sleep, threw away everything I had open (including a running VM instance, risking data corruption), and launched into a patching process that cost me nearly an hour of work time. I understand the importance of automatic updates security-wise, but Microsoft seems to be actively user-hostile here. </rant>
- kuschku 10y agoTime to get another BrowserChoice.eu
- Amezarak 10y agoI've noticed that every major update, Windows resets a bunch of settings to the default. It's like they haven't bothered to carry them over at all. Privacy settings and Edge are just the tip of the iceberg.
- nightski 10y agoI just installed the Anniversary update. It did not replace my default browser. It did however suggest making Edge my default with an option to do so. I cancelled this. It also added Edge to my taskbar but did not replace either Firefox or Chrome. Are you sure it replaced it? Seems like some misinformation here.
- mintplant 10y agoYeah, I'm positive. There was no user interaction involved: when I came back to my laptop, it was updating, and when the updated completed all the changes I described had been made. Privacy settings had been reset, Edge had become my default browser, and the Edge icon had taken Firefox's place on the taskbar.
- cm3 10y agoWhen Microsoft laid off much of their test dev teams 1 or 2 years ago, was the plan to roll out beta code to everyone and outsource QA? Genuine question. I mean, if they're serious about this, making Windows open source would make sense, so that external testers can also contribute patches for consideration.
- yuhong 10y agoSelling Windows to a non-profit foundation would be the first step toward this, though even after then it would not be trivial.
- ChrisRus 10y agoI doubt that Windows will ever be open sourced. I think it's more likely that they continue to integrate Linux API's into the commercial OS product and slowly morph into a their own Linux distro when most of the legacy code has been replaced.
- yuhong 10y agoAre you really proposing to kill Win32 completely?
- existencebox 10y agoDisclaimer: MSFtie, who came in prior to that switch as an SDET, and was converted to a SWE during the layoffs. In case your genuine was genuine, I'll give a somewhat serious answer: The intention was that the SDET work would be picked up by SWEs who would be responsible with dev and test. Ops also is slowly being absorbed in this manner (this current wonderful permutation of the word "devops") As to my thoughts on the transition... let the assertion that my home machines are still (happily) running 7 speak for itself; and I say that with unfortunate tone in that I'm a big fan of hyper-v integration/DX12.
- yuhong 10y agoI wonder if part of the problem is that WinSE is expensive.
- swagtricker 10y agoOMG - Those poor cam girl customers...
- swagtricker 10y agoWow. Tough room (like I'm the only one who thought that...).
- eggy 10y agoI didn't have an issue with the 10-day rollback after that period. My Win 10 install was working fine for 6 months, until the Start button disappeared. No problem: I found lots of solutions online. Problem: none worked, and the ultimate suggestion was to refresh or reset. Refresh didn't work, so I had to reset losing all of my installed apps and settings. When given the choice, I just went back to Win 8.1. I am astounded that a 'version 10' of any software would have such a keystone issue, at least losing the ability to navigate my GUI without crazy right clicks and searches. I run Mac and Linux too, so I am not a fanboy of any one particular OS. I call problems out on all of them equally. I just want them not to bother me while I am working ;) Or waste a day reinstalling apps and re-registering them, and setting them. In 38 years of owning and running computers, two systems stand out as particularly robust - my 1978 Commodore PET with built-in cassette tape drive storage, and a FreeBSD box I was running for a long time until the hard drive failed due to operator error!
- cheshire137 10y agoSounds like my experience with USB keyboard and mouse not working after a restart. They work in the BIOS, but as soon as the Windows loading screen appears, they stop working. I restored my PC to a restore point, they worked again. After another restart, they stopped working. I reset my PC, losing apps and settings. They worked again until another restart. I had set up remote access, so I was able to use my trusty MacBook to remote in and remove every "USB Root Hub" in Device Manager, then let Windows self-heal. That caused my mouse and keyboard to work again. So basically I have to keep a secondary PC around in case my Windows 10 PC ever reboots, so I can have a mouse and keyboard. I saw lots of posts online about keyboard and mouse not working on boot in Windows 10, but unplugging/replugging seemed to work for those people. It did nothing for me. I saw advice to disable fast boot, but even after doing that, on restart they stopped working. It also seems pretty suspect that the keyboard and mouse work fine in my BIOS and only stop responding after the Windows 10 spinner appears.
- Neil44 10y agoI've encountered the start menu issue a few times and also found the various magic incantations on google didn't work. The final solution in each case was to create a new user account.
- pingec 10y agoOther things that AU broke for me: - BSODs when I plug in my kindle PW2 - My Nexus5 is not detected again (I have the N edition and before AU installing the Feature Media Pack fixed this) - It overrode the Prolific driver I had manually installed with a newer one that breaks the fake serial adapter (easy enough to fix, but annoying)
- Sylos 10y agoSo, in regards to the Kindle, this just cropped up on the frontpage: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12326201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12326201 Apparently, you're not the only one with that problem...
- randiantech 10y agoIsnt something like a Windows Insider program for hardware and software companies to early test their products prior to general release? This seems like the result of lack of basic QA, both on Microsoft and third parties.
- nolok 10y agoAlso, every one of those small and inexpensive yet powerful enough for every day use and with great battery life notebook sold with windows 10 (or 8.1 and later upgraded to 10) and 32 GB of eeprom as main storage will not get any update anymore, because the anniversary update because it refuses to start without 16 GB free on the main storage. Even if you have a secondary storage (not external), it refuses to use it. Tried looking on the net, and microsoft official answer is "nope". It's like they really, really don't want to be on that segment, despite trying really hard at the same time.
- pjc50 10y agoMeanwhile I have one of those that I'm keeping on Win8 .. and an update has broken auto-rotation. Very annoying.
- usualrulesapply 10y agoTo those wondering if MS does QA anymore because you've seen one or two minor issues: how much QA should they do to verify the millions of different hardware and software combinations out there won't have some edge case behavior? You want them to track your privacy settings so they can be applied. Oh but then they are tracking us! Cause everyone here works at a company that gets their code right every time, I'm sure
- manarth 10y ago> "You want them to track your privacy settings so they can be applied. Oh but then they are tracking us!" The privacy settings do not need to be transmitted back to Microsoft. At the start of the upgrade, the installer could read the current settings, then reapply those once the install was complete. No privacy-infringing tracking required.
- kbhn 10y ago"You want them to track your privacy settings so they can be applied. Oh but then they are tracking us!" This argument doesn't hold up. Privacy settings can be stored locally, which requires no tracking. The problem arises when those privacy settings aren't correctly applied or remembered between updates.
- Bjartr 10y ago>how much QA should they do to verify the millions of different hardware and software combinations out there won't have some edge case behavior? As much as they used to do. They cut down on QA after Windows 7 (see laying off test engineers and laying the burden onto the primary development engineers)
- benjaminl 10y ago> The problem is that after installing the update, Windows no longer allows USB webcams to use MJPEG or H264 encoded streams and is only allowing YUY2 encoding. Thurrott's explanations is incorrect. What is happening is that Windows is decoding the MJPEG or H.264 encoded streams coming from certain high end webcams and delivering the decoded frames to the video chat application[0]. [0] - https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-US/9d6a8704-764f-46df-a41c-8e9d84f7f0f3/mjpg-encoded-media-type-is-not-available-for-usbuvc-webcameras-after-windows-10-version-1607-os?forum=mediafoundationdevelopment#e2fdb4a3-211b-45d4-a525-90ffa7367bd1 https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-U...
- pjc50 10y agoIf I've understood it, the consumer app now gets decoded video whether it wants it or not?
- philipov 10y agoI continue to be satisfied in my decision to use Windows 7 on my new computer.
- pulse7 10y agoI would like to have a machine working AS-IT-IS - without any automatic updated and changes. I would like to decide WHEN to update and what to update (only security issues or everything). I hope I am not the only user with this needs...
- tombert 10y agoI had assumed that I had done a bit too much tinkering and broke something. I'm glad to know that for once something didn't break due to my incompetence :D
- ourmandave 10y agoI'm still not taking off the tape.
- jimrandomh 10y agoI just checked, and Windows 10 had turned on the "Send Microsoft info about how I write" option, which I had definitely disabled. This was with a forced, automatic update and I definitely did not approve the change, nor was I notified of it. Internet sources didn't give a clear answer about what's being sent, but some sources seem to think it's full keylogging. If that's true, Microsoft is in for litigation and I'll be first in line to sue.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- IhateMicrosoft 10y agoI had nothing but problems with windows 10 and its privacy violations. So I disabled all of them I could learn about and figured I would live with it. Then patch Tuesday came around and it undid a bunch of it. Eventually Cortania couldn't be disabled, and my bluetooth mouse stopped working. So I booted into Fedora to see if my bluetooth hardware had failed - nope - everything worked fine; so I just installed it and never looked back. Linux isn't perfect, but it also isn't spyware.
- awqrre 10y agoI'm not a lawyer but it sounds like a class action lawsuit would be a good idea in this case (and a nice payday for lawyers involved).
- locusm 10y agoI have 2 AU updated PC's - both have a freezing mouse issue. I have to plug in a second mouse to get the bluetooth mouse moving again on one. On the other (wired) I just have to pull the plug and reinsert.
- yrro 10y agoI have noticed that, since installing the Anniversary Update, the light on my webcam that indicates that it is recording me is constantly lit. Very worrying. It is a shame that Windows has no way for me to find out which program is actually using the webcam so that I can terminate it. Unlike Linux of course!
- shostack 10y agoThe eye of Sauron is all-seeing.
- wildmXranat 10y agoThe update broke my install. Update finished and the computer restarted to a blue screen. Next restart didn't work and all I had was a black screen. Windows installation media couldnt help out since the partition was locked for some reason. In 6 months, I had to restore windows 10 3 times after botched updates.