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This can open new research also on how works for example homeopathy and acupunture?
by saskurambo 10y ago
This can open new research also on how works for example homeopathy and acupunture?
- danbruc 10y agoHomeopathy does not work except for the placebo effect, there are several studies.
- saskurambo 10y agoActually the mechanism of homeopathy isn't know. Clinic results are differente from test with placebo
- alex_anglin 10y agoSource?
- DanBC 10y agoThe source is not in any way controversial. When you run a well-conducted trial you find zero benefit to homeopathy. When you run a poorly-conducted study, with poor blinding or weak randomization you find some benefits to homeopathy. When you don't even run a study, but just give people homeopathy in clinics they'll tell you it works because they say they can feel a difference.
- danbruc 10y agoDo you have a reliable source for that? I omitted adding a source because if you look for scientific research on homeopathy you find essentially only studies stating that it does not work, Wikipedia has plenty of references.
- djsumdog 10y agoI too would be interested in a source. I don't think that homeopathy works, but I am willing to admit I can be wrong. Doubt is essential to make progress: http://khanism.org/science/doubt/ http://khanism.org/science/doubt/ Also, the placebo effect shouldn't be used dismissively. If you convince someone they should be feeling pain (tell them they're next to a low frequency transmitter that causes pain when they're really next to an empty speaker box), that pain is real in the sense their nervous system can have a physical reaction to it. It is in their heads, but perceptions can generate physical responses.
- danbruc 10y agoThat was not meant dismissive, the placebo effect is of course a well established and very real effect. But there is nothing more than the placebo effect in homeopathy.
- ekianjo 10y agoNote that most of what we call placebo effect is actually return to the mean. True placebo effect exists but its much more limited than what people usually think.
- danbruc 10y agoNaively I would expect regression toward the mean to weaken the placebo effect - using a placebo seems a better idea in light cases and even in a controlled study you would probably not be allowed to only use placebos in severe cases so that it seems more likely that the situation worsens which would reduce the observed strength of the placebo effect in the other direction.
- ekianjo 10y agoBut placebo only work in the situations considered as light cases, where regression to the mean is still feasible. Once you consider cancer, severe infections or other stuff like that, there is no placebo effect anymore. That's why I said most of the placebo effect is regression to the mean, and once you study diseases where regression to the mean never occur, then the placebo effect is in-existent.
- saalweachter 10y agoYou have to be very, very when discussing the placebo effect to distinguish between reporting differences and actual differences. That gets very complicated when you only have self-reporting of a subjective state to evaluate things on. The classic study was on asthma treatments. Patients would subjectively report feeling better when on the placebo treatment, but the objective measurements of lung function showed no difference. If people report being in less pain or less depressed when on a placebo treatment but attempt & complete suicide at the same rate... well, fuck.
- saskurambo 10y agoProving homeopathics
- saskurambo 10y agoThe knowledge of homeparhy in Science is really limited. We cab image the the surface of the top of iceberg as what know the science of homeopathy. All the iceberg is what you can know learning study and practice homeopathy for years or a live. this is my vision
- waterphone 10y agoThat is simply not correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Efficacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Efficacy https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#hed4 https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#hed4 http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html
- saskurambo 10y agoMmmm better provide also homeopatic reference
- gnaritas 10y agoNo, homeopatic anecdotes are not science. Science has studied homeopathy and found it to be complete and utter nonsense. That's the end of the story, it's superstition and does not work. You either understand that, or remain willfully ignorant. There are no other options. Homeopathy doesn't work, that's a fact, what part about that known fact seems to confuse you? Why are you insisting something that is KNOWN to not work, works? What don't you get?
- Aelinsaar 10y agoIt's known, and it's called "Placebo".
- gnaritas 10y agoThere is no mechanism of homeopathy other than the placebo effect, homeopathy is pseudo-scientific bullshit, simple as that, it's fiction. If you think it works, it only demonstrates that you have no understanding of the placebo effect and are easily taken in by bullshit. > Clinic results are differente from test with placebo reply No they aren't.
- saskurambo 10y agoYes they are differents. Homeopathy cure the person not the hill. In test only the hill is observed not the unity of person. Tests are exclusives, clinics is inclusives
- gnaritas 10y agoI'll just assume English isn't your first language because nothing you just said makes a lick of sense.
- ekianjo 10y agoAnd i would add that homeopathic drugs are not required to prove their effect in blinded trials to be registered. Thanks to Boiron and their powerful sugar-coated pills lobby.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- raddar4 10y agoThere does seem to be a body of anecdotal evidence pointing towards some kind actual happening "outside what we know" for phenomenon like the "kundalini" effect, however I don't see how the mechanism of action could be quantum in nature. That is, I suppose, not saying much as I don't see how it could work in any case, but I think more exploratory work does need to be done. Then again, I don't really know and if anyone does know of any scientific studies on kundalini phenomenon, I'd love to read about them.
- flukus 10y ago> There does seem to be a body of anecdotal evidence So no actual evidence then?
- jheriko 10y agoanecdotal evidence is evidence, its just not of a good quality. a lot of things rely on it for their justification. the best example i think i can give in the context of wanky hipster startups would be "agile methodologies"... despite the completely different area of concern they are also attributed properties which are inherently difficult to measure and perform experimentation with. i've seen very little evidence except for anecdotal evidence to back the claims surrounding them (although certainly, they are based on quite reasonable conclusions to reach with no evidence at all - by using logic and "common sense" to derive from better known quantities)
- avindroth 10y agoAnecdotal evidence is evidence. But just one data point. The bias most commit is thinking that a data point is more valuable because you know more about it. Just because you know the story behind it doesn't mean it's more important.
- jheriko 10y agoi'd say its often too wooly to even call a single data point, but in other cases its obviously very many. if 1000s of people are telling the same story, thats 1000s of potential data points... they lose value from being ill defined rather than being small in number.
- CyberDildonics 10y agoDo you know what people call homeopathic medicine that is proven to work? Medicine.
- Dylan16807 10y agoYou're thinking "alternative". Homeopathy is a very specific thing, where you take a substance with a bad effect and dilute it so much there's none left, in an attempt to cause the opposite effect, with more dilution being better.
- paul_milovanov 10y agoI absolutely would not rule out that this can open new research on for example homeopathy and acupuncture.
- saskurambo 10y agoYes many mechanisms actually are really not explored