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What about in the web/startup world? Although not a real meritocracy, proving you can program/hack/design gets you a lot further than a piece of paper with a st

by xeniak 10y ago

What about in the web/startup world? Although not a real meritocracy, proving you can program/hack/design gets you a lot further than a piece of paper with a stamp in it.

hashnsalt 10y ago
Agreed. The tech/CS world is more open to these alternative credentials. But a decent majority of the jobs are outside web/tech where traditional degrees hold a lot of value. It's not as easy to get a good mechanical engineering degree online because it requires a fair amount of lab work. Similarly for other forms of engineering and science.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  Don't conflate the webdev world with the rest of the tech industry. Most programming jobs are controlled by companies who do care what credentials you have, and the companies you describe are in such high demand by applicants that they have more qualified applicants than slots to fill.
  - XenophileJKO 10y ago
    On the higher end of the market, Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Uber, etc.. You can definitely leverage MOOC learning and credentials. I leveraged MOOCs and their credentials as part of my personal brand to offset not having any degree. It helped me move into a software engineering role at a top tier company. It isn't just the top of the market either.. many employers are learning that there is a significant pool of talent available by including candidates with alternative educational backgrounds.
    - vonmoltke 10y ago
      You missed a key part of what I said: > the companies you describe are in such high demand by applicants that they have more qualified applicants than slots to fill That applies to every company you named. It's great that you managed to get one of those slots. There are plenty of people who don't, though, and they can end up in a much worse position if they spend their time on learning that the majority of companies don't recognize.
ghaff 10y ago
The value of the piece of paper will vary, but evidence that you can do Job X is important in lots of cases--especially as experience accumulates and time from degree (or non-degree) increases. The issue is that if all MOOCs were was another way to view lectures and do some exercises in an online setting for free/cheap, they wouldn't have been viewed with any particular excitement. But that's pretty much what they turned out to be. I'm sure they've been a useful way of learning for some. But they haven't fundamentally changed anything.

by xeniak 10y ago

What about in the web/startup world? Although not a real meritocracy, proving you can program/hack/design gets you a lot further than a piece of paper with a stamp in it.

hashnsalt 10y ago

Agreed. The tech/CS world is more open to these alternative credentials. But a decent majority of the jobs are outside web/tech where traditional degrees hold a lot of value. It's not as easy to get a good mechanical engineering degree online because it requires a fair amount of lab work. Similarly for other forms of engineering and science.

vonmoltke 10y ago
Don't conflate the webdev world with the rest of the tech industry. Most programming jobs are controlled by companies who do care what credentials you have, and the companies you describe are in such high demand by applicants that they have more qualified applicants than slots to fill.
- XenophileJKO 10y ago
  On the higher end of the market, Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Uber, etc.. You can definitely leverage MOOC learning and credentials. I leveraged MOOCs and their credentials as part of my personal brand to offset not having any degree. It helped me move into a software engineering role at a top tier company. It isn't just the top of the market either.. many employers are learning that there is a significant pool of talent available by including candidates with alternative educational backgrounds.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    You missed a key part of what I said: > the companies you describe are in such high demand by applicants that they have more qualified applicants than slots to fill That applies to every company you named. It's great that you managed to get one of those slots. There are plenty of people who don't, though, and they can end up in a much worse position if they spend their time on learning that the majority of companies don't recognize.

ghaff 10y ago

The value of the piece of paper will vary, but evidence that you can do Job X is important in lots of cases--especially as experience accumulates and time from degree (or non-degree) increases. The issue is that if all MOOCs were was another way to view lectures and do some exercises in an online setting for free/cheap, they wouldn't have been viewed with any particular excitement. But that's pretty much what they turned out to be. I'm sure they've been a useful way of learning for some. But they haven't fundamentally changed anything.