18 ms·

Cortana: The spy in Windows 10

60 points by CrankyBear 10y ago

pjmlp 10y ago
Looking forward to similar articles about Siri and Google Now.
- vetinari 10y ago
  I don't know about Siri, but you can disable Google Now (actually, you have to enable it, if you want it). There seems to be news, that since Anniversary Edition you cannot disable Cortana anymore. Plus, I have to agree with hughw above, that there is a difference between phone and computer, what kind of data you have loaded on each. Windows 10, as it is currently, is simply unacceptable.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Good to know it is still possible to disable them, but until when? I disagree with the difference between phone and computer, for many people a smartphone or tablet is the only computer they own.
  - contextfree 10y ago
    The Cortana features analogous to Google Now are still opt-in after the update (i.e., you have to enable them if you want them). However, web search through the search box can no longer be disabled through a supported method AFAIK.
- spdustin 10y ago
  You opt-in to "Hey Siri" on first boot. I can't speak for Google Now.
  - Vexs 10y ago
    Yep, when you set up your phone you get a notification to enable it, as well as it's features. It's pretty upfront about what it does and what it collects too.
  - contextfree 10y ago
    Hey Cortana (and microphone access) is still opt-in, along with features that require data collection. The article is somewhat unclear/misleading on this point. What's not opt-in, or even able to be disabled through any supported method, is web search through the taskbar/start menu search box. This means that search box keystrokes will be sent to Microsoft servers, though there are (opt-out) options for disabling or clearing storage of search history.
- jasonkostempski 10y ago
  That's smart phone stuff, for some reason they've always behaved that way and people have mostly accepted it. Cortana and other Windows 10 software is turning an OS that you used to be able to call your own into something completely controlled by Microsoft. It's infuriating. I was a happy windows user until they pulled these stunts. This whole year I've been working towards getting all my personal computing off of it (I'm still stuck with it for work and I work from home). Last week I finally lost it when, after a forced Windows Update, Windows Defender was re-enabled against my will (along with a few other services I went out of my way to kill) and caused %100 disk usage for over an hour. This week I'm finally booting directly into Linux and Windows 10 is running in a VM with nothing but development tools on it... and Candy Crush and some racing game because the ISO from the MS download page includes them for some reason (the "Professional" version).
  - api 10y ago
    When I saw how privacy hostile and generally manipulative the whole mobile revolution was, I knew it was coming to other platforms too. There is just too much money to be made in surveillance and targeted advertising, especially since margins are collapsing elsewhere and people want everything to be 'free.' Surveillance is the business model of the Internet, at least in the B2C space. I'm not optimistic about it changing because frankly nobody cares. The only people who care are a small fraction of "cryppie" types and coincidentally these tend to also be the people who use FOSS and/or pirate everything. Not paying money is like not voting. Vendors have absolutely no incentive to give a damn about what you want. I am not aware of a single case where a product has been significantly harmed in the market or failed due to privacy invasion. In fact, even major security problems (also related to privacy) generally do not harm products in the long term.
divbit 10y ago
From the article: > Shouldn’t the new and improved Windows 10 be immune from the bugs that affect Windows 7, 8 and 8.1? I'm not sure code works like that...
- Sylos 10y ago
  What you quoted was sarcasm... Microsoft is claiming that Windows 10 would be so much more secure than Windows 7/8, and he's saying that if Windows 10 would be much more secure, then it shouldn't be suffering from largely the same bugs and vulnerabilities. So, Microsoft's claims are quite obviously bullshit.
hughw 10y ago
I'm comfortable with the privacy-compromises I accept with my phone (iOS). I put my computer in a different category. It's not a social or entertainment device, although I do use it for that a lot. It's primarily where I work, and where I store sensitive or bulky information I've never carried on a phone. I need control over my computer. I can accept non-free compromises like macOS, as long as they continue to maintain the social contract with users. If you can't turn off key loggers and on your PC, that OS is unusable for me.
- colejohnson66 10y ago
  Linux?
- AnonymousPlanet 10y ago
  I feel the same way. Sadly, there is a growing crowd that will point at your mobile device and say "<Android|iOS> does it, so stop complaining!".
excalibur 10y ago
Last fall's "November Update" was the first post-release change to Windows 10 that was dramatic enough to fit the description of a Service Pack. The "Anniversary Update" should be looked at as Windows 10 SP2.
Someone1234 10y ago
> When it’s working as your virtual assistant it’s collecting your every keystroke and spoken syllable. So is a Google Search. Whenever you type into the Google Search Box it is "collecting your every keystroke" or when you use voice search it is listening to your every "spoken syllable." You can word stuff that way to make anything sound like a keylogger. Heck even Hacker News is "collecting my every keystroke!" > But Cortana doesn’t stop there. With the recently released Windows 10 Anniversary Update, hereafter Windows 10 SP1, you can’t shut Cortana off. Misleading. You can turn off all the web integration functionality of Cortana and turn it into glorified Windows Search. What Microsoft removed was a specific slider that never really did anything, all the other privacy controls (including disabling web search entire) still exist either in the Privacy Settings panel or in Cortana's own settings. > Maybe you don’t mind Microsoft listening to your every word so it can catch when you say, “Hey, Cortana.” I do. Yes, I want the coolness factor of being able to talk to my computer. But I want the reassurance that it’s not listening when I don’t need it to be. I want a simple on/off switch. Windows 10 SP1 doesn’t have one. This is interesting, though: Windows 10 Education does. This is just outright untrue. "Hey, Cortana" can be disabled in Cortana's settings on all versions of Windows 10 with or without the anniversary update installed.
- spdustin 10y ago
  > Heck even Hacker News is "collecting my every keystroke!" Not until you press return > > But Cortana doesn’t stop there [...] you can't shut Cortana off. > Misleading. No, I don't think it is. You can tell her to "stop getting to know me", but you can't turn her off, because her offline services are basically rebadged offline desktop search. Cortana as the personification of search cannot be disabled, and heretofore unspecified telemetry regarding your search behavior is still sent to Microsoft. There is no way to disable or block this telemetry without third party tools.
  - raesene9 10y ago
    Do you have any additional details about the "unspecified telemetry" that's sent to Microsoft? I thought from my readings on the subject that pretty much all of the telemetry could be disabled via in OS options (even if some of them are rather harder to get to than I'd like)
benologist 10y ago
It's hardly alone. When I started examining my home network DNS traffic I quickly identified a bunch of software to remove or keep closed when I'm not using.
Theodores 10y ago
I don't believe that a simple registry setting or two necessarily disables Cortana. It might just pretend to be deaf but still be listening.With closed source software you never know.
- Infinitesimus 10y ago
  I suppose the same argument will hold true for Siri, Google Now, Desktop/Phone/Browser search?
  - tunap 10y ago
    And does almost every day on some blog or another. every. single. day.
  - marcosdumay 10y ago
    KDE search does not send data over the network. Neither does Windows 7 search, as far as I know. About Siri, and Google Now, people know not to let it access sensitive information. Now, people must learn the same about Windows 10.
  - Sylos 10y ago
    Sure does. What's your point?
- wvenable 10y ago
  You can always watch for the network traffic...
  - Sylos 10y ago
    Not really. If they encrypt it and hold off on sending it until they need to send something else, like for example the next update-check, then it becomes pretty much impossible to tell that they are sending your data and what they sending.
sahaskatta 10y ago
I'm not so sure this article is entirely accurate. I have Windows 10 Anniversary Update on my Surface Pro 4 and the switch to turn "Hey Cortana" off takes just 2-3 clicks. Screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/EI57H http://imgur.com/a/EI57H
kelvin0 10y ago
Ah yes, I suddenly have bout of nostalgia from the IE Monopoly Era. I remember when IE was claimed by MS as being intimately linked to Windows and if removed would hinder core functionalities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... Specifically: "Microsoft stated that the merging of Microsoft Windows and Internet Explorer was the result of innovation and competition, that the two were now the same product and were inextricably linked together and that consumers were now getting all the benefits of IE for free. Those who opposed Microsoft's position countered that the browser was still a distinct and separate product which did not need to be tied to the operating system" I know this is not the same situation, Cortana is not part of a 'monopoly' technology, however the fact that some features which users deem optional that end up embedded in the OS is similar.
wtbob 10y ago
Y'know, a lot of government organisations use Windows; I wonder how they feel about having all their information going to Microsoft …
- jdmichal 10y ago
  First, they're likely not on Windows 10 yet. Second, they all likely have enterprise management, where telemetry features can be fully disabled.
- tunap 10y ago
  Enterprise Edition respects(=won't jeopardize) their meal ticket.
contextfree 10y ago
This update moved Cortana from an all-or-nothing permissions model, where you have to grant a whole bunch of permissions before you can use any Cortana features at all, to a more granular model where the permissions are broken up into a handful of categories and you only have to enable the ones required for the specific features you want to use. These permissions are off by default as well (this includes microphone access and listening for "hey Cortana"), but you'll be asked to grant the relevant permissions when you try to use a feature that requires them. However, it's also true that there's no longer a supported way to turn off web searches in the search box (at least as far as I know).
Terr_ 10y ago
I always find it darkly amusing that Microsoft named their application after a type of AI doomed to become a megalomaniac control-freak.

60 points by CrankyBear 10y ago

pjmlp 10y ago

Looking forward to similar articles about Siri and Google Now.

vetinari 10y ago
I don't know about Siri, but you can disable Google Now (actually, you have to enable it, if you want it). There seems to be news, that since Anniversary Edition you cannot disable Cortana anymore. Plus, I have to agree with hughw above, that there is a difference between phone and computer, what kind of data you have loaded on each. Windows 10, as it is currently, is simply unacceptable.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Good to know it is still possible to disable them, but until when? I disagree with the difference between phone and computer, for many people a smartphone or tablet is the only computer they own.
- contextfree 10y ago
  The Cortana features analogous to Google Now are still opt-in after the update (i.e., you have to enable them if you want them). However, web search through the search box can no longer be disabled through a supported method AFAIK.
spdustin 10y ago
You opt-in to "Hey Siri" on first boot. I can't speak for Google Now.
- Vexs 10y ago
  Yep, when you set up your phone you get a notification to enable it, as well as it's features. It's pretty upfront about what it does and what it collects too.
- contextfree 10y ago
  Hey Cortana (and microphone access) is still opt-in, along with features that require data collection. The article is somewhat unclear/misleading on this point. What's not opt-in, or even able to be disabled through any supported method, is web search through the taskbar/start menu search box. This means that search box keystrokes will be sent to Microsoft servers, though there are (opt-out) options for disabling or clearing storage of search history.
jasonkostempski 10y ago
That's smart phone stuff, for some reason they've always behaved that way and people have mostly accepted it. Cortana and other Windows 10 software is turning an OS that you used to be able to call your own into something completely controlled by Microsoft. It's infuriating. I was a happy windows user until they pulled these stunts. This whole year I've been working towards getting all my personal computing off of it (I'm still stuck with it for work and I work from home). Last week I finally lost it when, after a forced Windows Update, Windows Defender was re-enabled against my will (along with a few other services I went out of my way to kill) and caused %100 disk usage for over an hour. This week I'm finally booting directly into Linux and Windows 10 is running in a VM with nothing but development tools on it... and Candy Crush and some racing game because the ISO from the MS download page includes them for some reason (the "Professional" version).
- api 10y ago
  When I saw how privacy hostile and generally manipulative the whole mobile revolution was, I knew it was coming to other platforms too. There is just too much money to be made in surveillance and targeted advertising, especially since margins are collapsing elsewhere and people want everything to be 'free.' Surveillance is the business model of the Internet, at least in the B2C space. I'm not optimistic about it changing because frankly nobody cares. The only people who care are a small fraction of "cryppie" types and coincidentally these tend to also be the people who use FOSS and/or pirate everything. Not paying money is like not voting. Vendors have absolutely no incentive to give a damn about what you want. I am not aware of a single case where a product has been significantly harmed in the market or failed due to privacy invasion. In fact, even major security problems (also related to privacy) generally do not harm products in the long term.

divbit 10y ago

From the article: > Shouldn’t the new and improved Windows 10 be immune from the bugs that affect Windows 7, 8 and 8.1? I'm not sure code works like that...

Sylos 10y ago
What you quoted was sarcasm... Microsoft is claiming that Windows 10 would be so much more secure than Windows 7/8, and he's saying that if Windows 10 would be much more secure, then it shouldn't be suffering from largely the same bugs and vulnerabilities. So, Microsoft's claims are quite obviously bullshit.

hughw 10y ago

I'm comfortable with the privacy-compromises I accept with my phone (iOS). I put my computer in a different category. It's not a social or entertainment device, although I do use it for that a lot. It's primarily where I work, and where I store sensitive or bulky information I've never carried on a phone. I need control over my computer. I can accept non-free compromises like macOS, as long as they continue to maintain the social contract with users. If you can't turn off key loggers and on your PC, that OS is unusable for me.

colejohnson66 10y ago
Linux?
AnonymousPlanet 10y ago
I feel the same way. Sadly, there is a growing crowd that will point at your mobile device and say "<Android|iOS> does it, so stop complaining!".

excalibur 10y ago

Last fall's "November Update" was the first post-release change to Windows 10 that was dramatic enough to fit the description of a Service Pack. The "Anniversary Update" should be looked at as Windows 10 SP2.

Someone1234 10y ago

> When it’s working as your virtual assistant it’s collecting your every keystroke and spoken syllable. So is a Google Search. Whenever you type into the Google Search Box it is "collecting your every keystroke" or when you use voice search it is listening to your every "spoken syllable." You can word stuff that way to make anything sound like a keylogger. Heck even Hacker News is "collecting my every keystroke!" > But Cortana doesn’t stop there. With the recently released Windows 10 Anniversary Update, hereafter Windows 10 SP1, you can’t shut Cortana off. Misleading. You can turn off all the web integration functionality of Cortana and turn it into glorified Windows Search. What Microsoft removed was a specific slider that never really did anything, all the other privacy controls (including disabling web search entire) still exist either in the Privacy Settings panel or in Cortana's own settings. > Maybe you don’t mind Microsoft listening to your every word so it can catch when you say, “Hey, Cortana.” I do. Yes, I want the coolness factor of being able to talk to my computer. But I want the reassurance that it’s not listening when I don’t need it to be. I want a simple on/off switch. Windows 10 SP1 doesn’t have one. This is interesting, though: Windows 10 Education does. This is just outright untrue. "Hey, Cortana" can be disabled in Cortana's settings on all versions of Windows 10 with or without the anniversary update installed.

spdustin 10y ago
> Heck even Hacker News is "collecting my every keystroke!" Not until you press return > > But Cortana doesn’t stop there [...] you can't shut Cortana off. > Misleading. No, I don't think it is. You can tell her to "stop getting to know me", but you can't turn her off, because her offline services are basically rebadged offline desktop search. Cortana as the personification of search cannot be disabled, and heretofore unspecified telemetry regarding your search behavior is still sent to Microsoft. There is no way to disable or block this telemetry without third party tools.
- raesene9 10y ago
  Do you have any additional details about the "unspecified telemetry" that's sent to Microsoft? I thought from my readings on the subject that pretty much all of the telemetry could be disabled via in OS options (even if some of them are rather harder to get to than I'd like)

benologist 10y ago

It's hardly alone. When I started examining my home network DNS traffic I quickly identified a bunch of software to remove or keep closed when I'm not using.

Theodores 10y ago

I don't believe that a simple registry setting or two necessarily disables Cortana. It might just pretend to be deaf but still be listening.With closed source software you never know.

Infinitesimus 10y ago
I suppose the same argument will hold true for Siri, Google Now, Desktop/Phone/Browser search?
- tunap 10y ago
  And does almost every day on some blog or another. every. single. day.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  KDE search does not send data over the network. Neither does Windows 7 search, as far as I know. About Siri, and Google Now, people know not to let it access sensitive information. Now, people must learn the same about Windows 10.
- Sylos 10y ago
  Sure does. What's your point?
wvenable 10y ago
You can always watch for the network traffic...
- Sylos 10y ago
  Not really. If they encrypt it and hold off on sending it until they need to send something else, like for example the next update-check, then it becomes pretty much impossible to tell that they are sending your data and what they sending.

sahaskatta 10y ago

I'm not so sure this article is entirely accurate. I have Windows 10 Anniversary Update on my Surface Pro 4 and the switch to turn "Hey Cortana" off takes just 2-3 clicks. Screenshot: http://imgur.com/a/EI57H http://imgur.com/a/EI57H

kelvin0 10y ago

Ah yes, I suddenly have bout of nostalgia from the IE Monopoly Era. I remember when IE was claimed by MS as being intimately linked to Windows and if removed would hinder core functionalities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... Specifically: "Microsoft stated that the merging of Microsoft Windows and Internet Explorer was the result of innovation and competition, that the two were now the same product and were inextricably linked together and that consumers were now getting all the benefits of IE for free. Those who opposed Microsoft's position countered that the browser was still a distinct and separate product which did not need to be tied to the operating system" I know this is not the same situation, Cortana is not part of a 'monopoly' technology, however the fact that some features which users deem optional that end up embedded in the OS is similar.

wtbob 10y ago

Y'know, a lot of government organisations use Windows; I wonder how they feel about having all their information going to Microsoft …

jdmichal 10y ago
First, they're likely not on Windows 10 yet. Second, they all likely have enterprise management, where telemetry features can be fully disabled.
tunap 10y ago
Enterprise Edition respects(=won't jeopardize) their meal ticket.

contextfree 10y ago

This update moved Cortana from an all-or-nothing permissions model, where you have to grant a whole bunch of permissions before you can use any Cortana features at all, to a more granular model where the permissions are broken up into a handful of categories and you only have to enable the ones required for the specific features you want to use. These permissions are off by default as well (this includes microphone access and listening for "hey Cortana"), but you'll be asked to grant the relevant permissions when you try to use a feature that requires them. However, it's also true that there's no longer a supported way to turn off web searches in the search box (at least as far as I know).

Terr_ 10y ago

I always find it darkly amusing that Microsoft named their application after a type of AI doomed to become a megalomaniac control-freak.