14 ms·

What isn't talked about in this article is the effect this is having on the other industries in the city aside from real estate. I believe that Vancouver has p

by lpaone 10y ago

What isn't talked about in this article is the effect this is having on the other industries in the city aside from real estate. I believe that Vancouver has potential to be THE tech hub in Canada. Unfortunately, wages are very low compared to the cost of housing, and so the cost of living is super high. Combine that with extremely low vacancy rates, and it is very hard to attract talent from out of town. In fact, many young, smart and talented people just head south to Seattle or the valley because the wages are so much higher, and the economics of staying in Vancouver just don't make sense. The other industries that could be thriving and building up a real economy in city are some of the biggest casualties in this whole mess. Unfortunately, all of the politicians from municipal to provincial are in bed with the real estate industry, so nothing truly effective and meaningful will be done.

Apocryphon 10y ago
Perhaps Montreal can do the same, if the city finds some way to sidestep the provincial language laws.
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  Nothing wrong with language laws, people just need to stop being lazy. Learning a second language isn't that hard.
  - piva00 10y ago
    It's still a big effort, learning a language properly is not something you do for 2 hours on the weekend and get proficient at it. Even more so if you don't plan to use that language for anything else afterwards. It isn't that hard but isn't that easy either.
    - ivoras 10y ago
      > It's still a big effort, learning a language properly is not something you do for 2 hours on the weekend and get proficient at it. There's a big difference between being really proficient and knowing enough to be productive. In any case, like other skills, everyone gets better by actually doing it, but they need to start first.
  - system16 10y ago
    Learning to order lunch or talk about the weather in a second language is not that hard. Communicating at a professional level takes years of practice. For most people - especially mid-career adults with limited time - that's not going to happen.
    - Raphmedia 10y ago
      I work in tech in Montreal. People speak in english. You can speak english all day if you want. My clients speak in english. We speak in english. We create websites that are 100% english for clients who are based in the USA. What isn't allowed it having a workplace where the local (who can't speak english) have no chance of being hired because of the language. That is also why the employer must provide all workplace tools with french label. All else is lies, stereotypes and people not understanding the law.
      - quicknir 10y ago
        No that's not all it is, and the person who does not understand the law is you. Quebec language laws require for instance that commercial signs not only have French, but that French be predominant. Why does a sign having big print in English and small print in French, prevent a native French speaker from working there? Also, realistically if you hire many programmers who only speak English, it's simply not realistic to hire a programmer who speaks French exclusively because he can't communicate with the team. Putting "copiez" on your photocopier does not alleviate that. These laws are discrimination, pure and simple, and have been found as such by the Canadian Supreme Court on many occasions. Most Quebecois just don't care about paltry things like individual rights, where their language is involved.
        Raphmedia 10y ago
        > Quebec language laws require for instance that commercial signs not only have French, but that French be predominant. No. If that was true, Best Buy would have big billboards that say "Meilleur Achat". "Canadian Tire" would be "Pneus Canadiens". They don't. The law don't ask for it. > Also, realistically if you hire many programmers who only speak English, it's simply not realistic to hire a programmer who speaks French exclusively because he can't communicate with the team. That's the entire point of the law. It's the very reason it's there. To prevent business from hiring an all english staff which would prevent local people from working there. Edit: Some of it may not make sense to you because we are working in the tech industry. The abuses those laws are there to protect against happen mostly to minimum wage workers in the industrial sector. Some people could get hurt if the machines are not labelled correctly. I admit that stickers on the photocopying machine is a joke but it could be life and death when we are talking about a big industrial machines filled with saws.
  - robotresearcher 10y ago
    Many, many of the people injecting money into Vancouver already speak a second language just fine. French would be a third at least.
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    Apprendre une deuxième langue n'est pas le problème, mais la Loi 101 derange beaucoup de gens
    - kejaed 10y ago
      Exactly, how many people coming to Montreal would be happy that their kids could only go to school in French?
      - pjonesdotca 10y ago
        Probably about as many parents who are fighting to get their kids in French Immersion in the rest of Canada. I can't speak about anywhere other than Toronto but here it's quite sought after, second language for children. Especially amongst first generation immigrants like myself.
        myth_drannon 10y ago
        That's not because of French language, they would try even if it had Zulu immersion. It's just that it's cheaper than private schools, but you still get good students and quality environment
        mrtron 10y ago
        Exactly. The school rankings are the driver here, not french language.
        melolife 10y ago
        Correct. The parents that care put their children into French immersion because other like-minded parents do so and their children are high-achieving. Any teacher will tell you that parenting is the biggest determining factor in academic achievement, and as a result French immersion is effectively the "academic stream" in the Canadian school system. It also receives additional federal funding which is not available to English programs.
        10y ago
  - cvinson 10y ago
    Try having a startup in Montreal. Our has been targeted by the language police, and is being forced to translate not just our front end, but our blog and social media presences. It doesn't matter that 0.01% of customers are in Quebec, and that we have determined that there is no market for our product in french. Anyone can send an anonymous message to this government agency and it will audit your business to make sure you are compliant. Have more than 50 employees? Make sure the copy button on your photocopier says "copiez" or you'll have to put stickers over it (true story, happened at my brother's pharma startup). The sad thing is that most Montrealers have the attitude that "you're in Montreal, you should learn french." The problem is, this law goes far beyond that, and is a serious impediment for Montreal startups.
    - miguelrochefort 10y ago
      This is accurate. The company I work for had to put French stickers on every key of every keyboard. They had to put stickers on the microwave oven as well...
      - serge2k 10y ago
        I hate Canadian bilingual keyboards so much.
        Mikeb85 10y ago
        This is for real. US alt international layout on Linux is great, best ever. And Azerty > Canadian bilingual keyboards too. Canadian bilingual keyboards suck for writing in both French and English.
        nayuki 10y ago
        I hate how the left shift key is split, and how the backslash moves to the enter position. Despite being in Canada, I only buy laptops with US keyboards.
        frandroid 10y ago
        Wait, you actually look at the keys? You can use whatever keyboard but keep it mapped out to your favourite layout. I personally use a Canadian bilingual layout but haven't owned such a keyboard in quite a while, since work doesn't look fondly in buying a MacBook Pro with a layout that a future inheritor would bristle at... Now if you mean that you really hate the layout, it's really anti-programming, and sometimes I wonder why I stick to it. :) It's so easy to use a layout switching keyboard shortcut...
- mastazi 10y ago
  Learning a second language is a great thing - your mind becomes more flexible and you get access to movies, books and songs which you wouldn't be able to enjoy otherwise - having to cope with language laws, though, sucks big time.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Yes, I know mandarin and English. Wait, I have to learn French also? Pass. I had the same problem in Lausanne, though French wasn't required for my job. I just couldn't completely devote myself to my research AND learn another language concurrently.
    - mastazi 10y ago
      > Yes, I know mandarin and English. Wait, I have to learn French also? Pass. Is there a government that makes it mandatory? Because otherwise we're not talking about the same thing. I speak 4 languages and I learned each of them for different reasons... None of which was "because otherwise I would be breaking the law".
      - Kluny 10y ago
        All services that serve Quebec have to be available in french. So if you're making an application front end, you have to provide a french version even if your userbase doesn't care. It's just extra overhead.
        Apocryphon 10y ago
        Well, localization is good practice and something that should be supported already. But I think it's more like the Quebecois language laws mandate bilingualism in the workplace, which is a greater hassle.
        john_fushi 10y ago
        It's really that speaking french in a predominantly french region shouldn't stop you from getting a job you have every competencies to achieve. That's why the law can go into absurd territory(e.g. having only english equipment cannot be a valid reason to refuse employment to a francophone). But then again, most of the law only applies once your business reach a certain number of employees(30 I think)
- celerystock 10y ago
  Unfortunately the software industry in Montreal has decided that developers are not valuable. Salaries are hilariously low compared to american counterparts.
  - branchless 10y ago
    Living costs are very low. And hours are good. Can you buy time? Do you want to live in a country with shameful inequality? Not me.
    - lintiness 10y ago
      you guys are important, really, no need to constantly whine about your neighbor to the south.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    They also seem prejudiced to foreign labour that is not French or American
    - frandroid 10y ago
      Funny story: I have friends from Québec City (unilingual city) who work in Montréal who complain of always having to work in English, and I have former anglo-Montréaler friends living in Toronto because "it was impossible to find a job in Montréal as a non-native French speaker".
Mikeb85 10y ago
Unfortunately in Canada we've gone for easy money (real estate in Vancouver, oil in Alberta) before trying to establish actual industries. We'd rather just grab US and Chinese cash then vacation in Mexico than actually work.
- ivoras 10y ago
  > We'd rather just grab US and Chinese cash then vacation in Mexico than actually work. That's hardly unique to Canada. It's the default human state to prioritise short-term gains. See e.g. the phenomenon of obesity.
  - branchless 10y ago
    Former British colony with banking and enslaving land price shocker, page 4.
  - sdenton4 10y ago
    (I suppose I shouldn't be shocked that broad national generalizations should be followed up with fat shaming. But I am, none-the-less, disappointed.)
- forgetsusername 10y ago
  >We'd rather just grab US and Chinese cash then vacation in Mexico than actually work. I would also like to grab cash and vacation. What's so honourable about working?
  - schwarrrtz 10y ago
    > what's so honourable about building a future for your country? FTFY
rz2k 10y ago
Introduction of a gradual increase in property taxes, as well as a gradual decease in income taxes, even lower than zero if appropriate, would be the naïve, straightforward economic policy recommendation if the problem has been accurately described. Some details yo resolve would be the numerous people who were using their primary residence as their main investment for retirement, and deciding how to handle people who were improving properties in order to make a living.
- paulsutter 10y ago
  Why gradual? (not disagreeing, just asking)
  - linkregister 10y ago
    Impact on retirees, impact on existing resident property owners, and lack of control over what income tax Ottawa sets are a few reasons.
    - hx87 10y ago
      As for the latter, can't BC just allow tax payed to Ottawa to be counted as a credit towards provincial/municipal income taxes?
- delecti 10y ago
  Is there any reason that property taxes couldn't be increased solely on homes without residents? It would at least encourage putting foreign owned homes on the rental market.
  - caffodian 10y ago
    Residency tracking is hard. Actually, the city of Vancouver got permission from the provincial government to implement a vacant homes tax, but it's based on the home being unoccupied for a whole year. It probably won't work.
  - acveilleux 10y ago
Gustomaximus 10y ago
This lacks recognition. So many factors could come into play. E.g. The downstream effects of house prices has to hit entrepreneurship. Previously a bunch of people would be in a good place to take a couple years off to start a business mid-career. Now people have these huge mortgages where your ability to start a business is hampered by your ability to get a financial buffer to take this year or 2 off. And lets not forget most businesses are created form people mid-career, not the TV typical university dropout. And small community business, how will they exist in the future. If someone wants to set up a local 'physical presence' vet/daycare type business that are typically mixed into residential areas the threshold is now too high to exist let-alone set up a new business. How can a daycare buy a million+ dollar house and expect to make money paying that back on having 30 local kids being looked after. Also what is going to happen with social services like retirement and periods of higher unemployment. I suspect society will be less stable as either the government has to foot much higher rent costs (unlikely) or we will see increased population movements during retirement, and now the government has to look after older people that before a family who lived nearby could help out with. And during low employment cycles society can no-longer absorb this downturn if people have large income-to-debt loans. Historically people could 'tighten belts' for a year while things improve, harder when you're neck deep in debt. So we will again see more movement of people, debt default etc. It will serve to exacerbate recessions etc. Also these higher prices skew the economy. When people are tied up in these ever increasing loan/income ratios there will be less spending on dining, holidays, hobbies etc. It will weaken the economy by concentrating the spend in limited areas. From this I really believe we should be talking seriously about ensuring affordable housing for owner occupiers. Residential investment need to be discouraged (note I'm not saying stopped) as a speculative asset class. I've seen a few suggested methods to achieve this but I feel the simplest is to place a yearly 'asset tax' on non-owner occupied residential property (I would also include farms). Having a % tax would make it easy to adjust to find the right balance given economic cycles change. Also this would encourage property hoarders not in heavy debt to sell for lower taxed asset classes. This I feel is important as most solutions focus on controlling the investment lending side which is limiting in reach. And the 'add supply' will always be a limited case solution. Good luck. It seems most western governments have stopped caring about looking past the most immediate budgets.
- 10y ago
aminok 10y ago
Billionaires buying houses does not increase housing costs. You do not need to purchase a Single Family House in Vancouver to have housing. You can buy a condo, the prices of which are totally uncoupled from SFHs, or rent. If foreign investors were leaving the houses they buy empty, and thus removing units from the housing stock, you might be able to make a case for foreign investment negatively impacting Vancouver housing costs, but that's not what's happening. The percentage of homes in the Vancouver West Side, where foreign investors are exceptionally active, (edit to add: 'that are unoccupied') is only 3 percent, which is below the typical rate for major cities. What this means is that foreigners are not leaving houses that they buy in Vancouver empty. They are being rented out. The rental cost in Vancouver are below Seattle's when you compare it to the median wage so then couver housing as far as rentals is actually more affordable than neighbouring Seattle.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Are they renting them out? I've heard speculators buying housing and then just sitting on them are turning some Vancouver neighborhoods into host towns. Is there anywhere we can get occupancy numbers? Also, aren't Vancouver rents higher than Seattle?
  - aminok 10y ago
    The city of Vancouver did a very rigorous study, and found unoccupancy in the West Side, where much of the foreign investment has been going, at only 3 percent: http://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-releases-comprehensive-study-on-empty-homes.aspx http://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-releases-comprehensiv... Which is below the average for other major cities.
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      Eh. But aren't they biased? They were going through a lot of effort to show that there wasn't a bubble, or that the market wasn't being targeted by the Chinese.
      - 10y ago
jlos 10y ago
>> In fact, many young, smart and talented people just head south to Seattle or the valley because the wages are so much higher, and the economics of staying in Vancouver just don't make sense. Your claim is especially true if those people have families. 60% of Families said they planned on leaving the city in the next year due to the problems surrounding housing. Rental rates are also a problem with only a 0.6% vacancy rates and of those available only 16% are 2 bedroom and less than 1% are three bedroom.(1) (1) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/families-particularly-vulnerable-to-vancouvers-tight-rentalmarket/article31222332/?service=mobile http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/familie...
chocolatebunny 10y ago
I don't understand how Seattle hasn't had a big housing problem compared to the valley or Vancouver. They have a decent tech sector and they're in close proximity to Vancouver.
- cesarbs 10y ago
  I think it's coming. Rents have been climbing at a fast rate. My wife and I are paying close to $3K for a two bedroom + den in Bellevue, and this was the cheapest we could find. When we first moved in 3 years ago, our rent was just a little over $2K.
- guyzero 10y ago
  It's much less geographically constrained than Vancouver and it has fewer tech millionaires than the Valley. It has also had fairly significant price gains over the last few years though.
- run4yourlives2 10y ago
  Simply: It's more difficult to emigrate to the US as a foreigner in many key ways, coupled with the fact that it's a slightly larger city with a much stronger and more diversified economy.
- guardiangod 10y ago
  (I am Chinese, is living in Vancouver, and know many mainland Chinese.) In the eye of a mainland Chinese, an US citizenship is worth significantly less than Canadian citizenship. Take it for what you will, the bottom line is, no one wants to be an US citizen. The difference in application fee is dramatic, as a Canadian citizenship application fee (to the middleman) costs 3x more than the US counterpart (Green Card).
run4yourlives2 10y ago
As a Vancouverite (well, metro at least) who moved here from Toronto 15 years ago, one of the things that has bothered me most about BC and Vancouver specifically is how reliant the economy is on a few distinct sectors. In BC, it's resources and literally nothing else. In Vancouver, since resources overall are declining, we run the economy via real estate investment. That's moronic. As you say, we could become a tech hub easily if we leveraged our easy connection to Seattle and the gateway to Asia that we are. We could become a medical tech hub as well. We could be a centre for finance as well if we invested properly, particularly since oil is now on a downslide. Our local governments simply have no vision. Our residents are too afraid of change to actually do, well anything really, and all our innovators simply move elsewhere.

by lpaone 10y ago

Apocryphon 10y ago

Perhaps Montreal can do the same, if the city finds some way to sidestep the provincial language laws.

Mikeb85 10y ago
Nothing wrong with language laws, people just need to stop being lazy. Learning a second language isn't that hard.
- piva00 10y ago
  It's still a big effort, learning a language properly is not something you do for 2 hours on the weekend and get proficient at it. Even more so if you don't plan to use that language for anything else afterwards. It isn't that hard but isn't that easy either.
  - ivoras 10y ago
    > It's still a big effort, learning a language properly is not something you do for 2 hours on the weekend and get proficient at it. There's a big difference between being really proficient and knowing enough to be productive. In any case, like other skills, everyone gets better by actually doing it, but they need to start first.
- system16 10y ago
  Learning to order lunch or talk about the weather in a second language is not that hard. Communicating at a professional level takes years of practice. For most people - especially mid-career adults with limited time - that's not going to happen.
  - Raphmedia 10y ago
    I work in tech in Montreal. People speak in english. You can speak english all day if you want. My clients speak in english. We speak in english. We create websites that are 100% english for clients who are based in the USA. What isn't allowed it having a workplace where the local (who can't speak english) have no chance of being hired because of the language. That is also why the employer must provide all workplace tools with french label. All else is lies, stereotypes and people not understanding the law.
    - quicknir 10y ago
      No that's not all it is, and the person who does not understand the law is you. Quebec language laws require for instance that commercial signs not only have French, but that French be predominant. Why does a sign having big print in English and small print in French, prevent a native French speaker from working there? Also, realistically if you hire many programmers who only speak English, it's simply not realistic to hire a programmer who speaks French exclusively because he can't communicate with the team. Putting "copiez" on your photocopier does not alleviate that. These laws are discrimination, pure and simple, and have been found as such by the Canadian Supreme Court on many occasions. Most Quebecois just don't care about paltry things like individual rights, where their language is involved.
      - Raphmedia 10y ago
        > Quebec language laws require for instance that commercial signs not only have French, but that French be predominant. No. If that was true, Best Buy would have big billboards that say "Meilleur Achat". "Canadian Tire" would be "Pneus Canadiens". They don't. The law don't ask for it. > Also, realistically if you hire many programmers who only speak English, it's simply not realistic to hire a programmer who speaks French exclusively because he can't communicate with the team. That's the entire point of the law. It's the very reason it's there. To prevent business from hiring an all english staff which would prevent local people from working there. Edit: Some of it may not make sense to you because we are working in the tech industry. The abuses those laws are there to protect against happen mostly to minimum wage workers in the industrial sector. Some people could get hurt if the machines are not labelled correctly. I admit that stickers on the photocopying machine is a joke but it could be life and death when we are talking about a big industrial machines filled with saws.
- robotresearcher 10y ago
  Many, many of the people injecting money into Vancouver already speak a second language just fine. French would be a third at least.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  Apprendre une deuxième langue n'est pas le problème, mais la Loi 101 derange beaucoup de gens
  - kejaed 10y ago
    Exactly, how many people coming to Montreal would be happy that their kids could only go to school in French?
    - pjonesdotca 10y ago
      Probably about as many parents who are fighting to get their kids in French Immersion in the rest of Canada. I can't speak about anywhere other than Toronto but here it's quite sought after, second language for children. Especially amongst first generation immigrants like myself.
      - myth_drannon 10y ago
        That's not because of French language, they would try even if it had Zulu immersion. It's just that it's cheaper than private schools, but you still get good students and quality environment
        mrtron 10y ago
        Exactly. The school rankings are the driver here, not french language.
        melolife 10y ago
        Correct. The parents that care put their children into French immersion because other like-minded parents do so and their children are high-achieving. Any teacher will tell you that parenting is the biggest determining factor in academic achievement, and as a result French immersion is effectively the "academic stream" in the Canadian school system. It also receives additional federal funding which is not available to English programs.
        10y ago
- cvinson 10y ago
  Try having a startup in Montreal. Our has been targeted by the language police, and is being forced to translate not just our front end, but our blog and social media presences. It doesn't matter that 0.01% of customers are in Quebec, and that we have determined that there is no market for our product in french. Anyone can send an anonymous message to this government agency and it will audit your business to make sure you are compliant. Have more than 50 employees? Make sure the copy button on your photocopier says "copiez" or you'll have to put stickers over it (true story, happened at my brother's pharma startup). The sad thing is that most Montrealers have the attitude that "you're in Montreal, you should learn french." The problem is, this law goes far beyond that, and is a serious impediment for Montreal startups.
  - miguelrochefort 10y ago
    This is accurate. The company I work for had to put French stickers on every key of every keyboard. They had to put stickers on the microwave oven as well...
    - serge2k 10y ago
      I hate Canadian bilingual keyboards so much.
      - Mikeb85 10y ago
        This is for real. US alt international layout on Linux is great, best ever. And Azerty > Canadian bilingual keyboards too. Canadian bilingual keyboards suck for writing in both French and English.
      - nayuki 10y ago
        I hate how the left shift key is split, and how the backslash moves to the enter position. Despite being in Canada, I only buy laptops with US keyboards.
      - frandroid 10y ago
        Wait, you actually look at the keys? You can use whatever keyboard but keep it mapped out to your favourite layout. I personally use a Canadian bilingual layout but haven't owned such a keyboard in quite a while, since work doesn't look fondly in buying a MacBook Pro with a layout that a future inheritor would bristle at... Now if you mean that you really hate the layout, it's really anti-programming, and sometimes I wonder why I stick to it. :) It's so easy to use a layout switching keyboard shortcut...
mastazi 10y ago
Learning a second language is a great thing - your mind becomes more flexible and you get access to movies, books and songs which you wouldn't be able to enjoy otherwise - having to cope with language laws, though, sucks big time.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Yes, I know mandarin and English. Wait, I have to learn French also? Pass. I had the same problem in Lausanne, though French wasn't required for my job. I just couldn't completely devote myself to my research AND learn another language concurrently.
  - mastazi 10y ago
    > Yes, I know mandarin and English. Wait, I have to learn French also? Pass. Is there a government that makes it mandatory? Because otherwise we're not talking about the same thing. I speak 4 languages and I learned each of them for different reasons... None of which was "because otherwise I would be breaking the law".
    - Kluny 10y ago
      All services that serve Quebec have to be available in french. So if you're making an application front end, you have to provide a french version even if your userbase doesn't care. It's just extra overhead.
      - Apocryphon 10y ago
        Well, localization is good practice and something that should be supported already. But I think it's more like the Quebecois language laws mandate bilingualism in the workplace, which is a greater hassle.
        john_fushi 10y ago
        It's really that speaking french in a predominantly french region shouldn't stop you from getting a job you have every competencies to achieve. That's why the law can go into absurd territory(e.g. having only english equipment cannot be a valid reason to refuse employment to a francophone). But then again, most of the law only applies once your business reach a certain number of employees(30 I think)
celerystock 10y ago
Unfortunately the software industry in Montreal has decided that developers are not valuable. Salaries are hilariously low compared to american counterparts.
- branchless 10y ago
  Living costs are very low. And hours are good. Can you buy time? Do you want to live in a country with shameful inequality? Not me.
  - lintiness 10y ago
    you guys are important, really, no need to constantly whine about your neighbor to the south.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- raverbashing 10y ago
  They also seem prejudiced to foreign labour that is not French or American
  - frandroid 10y ago
    Funny story: I have friends from Québec City (unilingual city) who work in Montréal who complain of always having to work in English, and I have former anglo-Montréaler friends living in Toronto because "it was impossible to find a job in Montréal as a non-native French speaker".

Mikeb85 10y ago

Unfortunately in Canada we've gone for easy money (real estate in Vancouver, oil in Alberta) before trying to establish actual industries. We'd rather just grab US and Chinese cash then vacation in Mexico than actually work.

ivoras 10y ago
> We'd rather just grab US and Chinese cash then vacation in Mexico than actually work. That's hardly unique to Canada. It's the default human state to prioritise short-term gains. See e.g. the phenomenon of obesity.
- branchless 10y ago
  Former British colony with banking and enslaving land price shocker, page 4.
- sdenton4 10y ago
  (I suppose I shouldn't be shocked that broad national generalizations should be followed up with fat shaming. But I am, none-the-less, disappointed.)
forgetsusername 10y ago
>We'd rather just grab US and Chinese cash then vacation in Mexico than actually work. I would also like to grab cash and vacation. What's so honourable about working?
- schwarrrtz 10y ago
  > what's so honourable about building a future for your country? FTFY

rz2k 10y ago

Introduction of a gradual increase in property taxes, as well as a gradual decease in income taxes, even lower than zero if appropriate, would be the naïve, straightforward economic policy recommendation if the problem has been accurately described. Some details yo resolve would be the numerous people who were using their primary residence as their main investment for retirement, and deciding how to handle people who were improving properties in order to make a living.

paulsutter 10y ago
Why gradual? (not disagreeing, just asking)
- linkregister 10y ago
  Impact on retirees, impact on existing resident property owners, and lack of control over what income tax Ottawa sets are a few reasons.
  - hx87 10y ago
    As for the latter, can't BC just allow tax payed to Ottawa to be counted as a credit towards provincial/municipal income taxes?
delecti 10y ago
Is there any reason that property taxes couldn't be increased solely on homes without residents? It would at least encourage putting foreign owned homes on the rental market.
- caffodian 10y ago
  Residency tracking is hard. Actually, the city of Vancouver got permission from the provincial government to implement a vacant homes tax, but it's based on the home being unoccupied for a whole year. It probably won't work.
- acveilleux 10y ago

Gustomaximus 10y ago

This lacks recognition. So many factors could come into play. E.g. The downstream effects of house prices has to hit entrepreneurship. Previously a bunch of people would be in a good place to take a couple years off to start a business mid-career. Now people have these huge mortgages where your ability to start a business is hampered by your ability to get a financial buffer to take this year or 2 off. And lets not forget most businesses are created form people mid-career, not the TV typical university dropout. And small community business, how will they exist in the future. If someone wants to set up a local 'physical presence' vet/daycare type business that are typically mixed into residential areas the threshold is now too high to exist let-alone set up a new business. How can a daycare buy a million+ dollar house and expect to make money paying that back on having 30 local kids being looked after. Also what is going to happen with social services like retirement and periods of higher unemployment. I suspect society will be less stable as either the government has to foot much higher rent costs (unlikely) or we will see increased population movements during retirement, and now the government has to look after older people that before a family who lived nearby could help out with. And during low employment cycles society can no-longer absorb this downturn if people have large income-to-debt loans. Historically people could 'tighten belts' for a year while things improve, harder when you're neck deep in debt. So we will again see more movement of people, debt default etc. It will serve to exacerbate recessions etc. Also these higher prices skew the economy. When people are tied up in these ever increasing loan/income ratios there will be less spending on dining, holidays, hobbies etc. It will weaken the economy by concentrating the spend in limited areas. From this I really believe we should be talking seriously about ensuring affordable housing for owner occupiers. Residential investment need to be discouraged (note I'm not saying stopped) as a speculative asset class. I've seen a few suggested methods to achieve this but I feel the simplest is to place a yearly 'asset tax' on non-owner occupied residential property (I would also include farms). Having a % tax would make it easy to adjust to find the right balance given economic cycles change. Also this would encourage property hoarders not in heavy debt to sell for lower taxed asset classes. This I feel is important as most solutions focus on controlling the investment lending side which is limiting in reach. And the 'add supply' will always be a limited case solution. Good luck. It seems most western governments have stopped caring about looking past the most immediate budgets.

10y ago

aminok 10y ago

Billionaires buying houses does not increase housing costs. You do not need to purchase a Single Family House in Vancouver to have housing. You can buy a condo, the prices of which are totally uncoupled from SFHs, or rent. If foreign investors were leaving the houses they buy empty, and thus removing units from the housing stock, you might be able to make a case for foreign investment negatively impacting Vancouver housing costs, but that's not what's happening. The percentage of homes in the Vancouver West Side, where foreign investors are exceptionally active, (edit to add: 'that are unoccupied') is only 3 percent, which is below the typical rate for major cities. What this means is that foreigners are not leaving houses that they buy in Vancouver empty. They are being rented out. The rental cost in Vancouver are below Seattle's when you compare it to the median wage so then couver housing as far as rentals is actually more affordable than neighbouring Seattle.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Are they renting them out? I've heard speculators buying housing and then just sitting on them are turning some Vancouver neighborhoods into host towns. Is there anywhere we can get occupancy numbers? Also, aren't Vancouver rents higher than Seattle?
- aminok 10y ago
  The city of Vancouver did a very rigorous study, and found unoccupancy in the West Side, where much of the foreign investment has been going, at only 3 percent: http://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-releases-comprehensive-study-on-empty-homes.aspx http://vancouver.ca/news-calendar/city-releases-comprehensiv... Which is below the average for other major cities.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Eh. But aren't they biased? They were going through a lot of effort to show that there wasn't a bubble, or that the market wasn't being targeted by the Chinese.
    - 10y ago

jlos 10y ago

>> In fact, many young, smart and talented people just head south to Seattle or the valley because the wages are so much higher, and the economics of staying in Vancouver just don't make sense. Your claim is especially true if those people have families. 60% of Families said they planned on leaving the city in the next year due to the problems surrounding housing. Rental rates are also a problem with only a 0.6% vacancy rates and of those available only 16% are 2 bedroom and less than 1% are three bedroom.(1) (1) http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/families-particularly-vulnerable-to-vancouvers-tight-rentalmarket/article31222332/?service=mobile http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/familie...

chocolatebunny 10y ago

I don't understand how Seattle hasn't had a big housing problem compared to the valley or Vancouver. They have a decent tech sector and they're in close proximity to Vancouver.

cesarbs 10y ago
I think it's coming. Rents have been climbing at a fast rate. My wife and I are paying close to $3K for a two bedroom + den in Bellevue, and this was the cheapest we could find. When we first moved in 3 years ago, our rent was just a little over $2K.
guyzero 10y ago
It's much less geographically constrained than Vancouver and it has fewer tech millionaires than the Valley. It has also had fairly significant price gains over the last few years though.
run4yourlives2 10y ago
Simply: It's more difficult to emigrate to the US as a foreigner in many key ways, coupled with the fact that it's a slightly larger city with a much stronger and more diversified economy.
guardiangod 10y ago
(I am Chinese, is living in Vancouver, and know many mainland Chinese.) In the eye of a mainland Chinese, an US citizenship is worth significantly less than Canadian citizenship. Take it for what you will, the bottom line is, no one wants to be an US citizen. The difference in application fee is dramatic, as a Canadian citizenship application fee (to the middleman) costs 3x more than the US counterpart (Green Card).

run4yourlives2 10y ago

As a Vancouverite (well, metro at least) who moved here from Toronto 15 years ago, one of the things that has bothered me most about BC and Vancouver specifically is how reliant the economy is on a few distinct sectors. In BC, it's resources and literally nothing else. In Vancouver, since resources overall are declining, we run the economy via real estate investment. That's moronic. As you say, we could become a tech hub easily if we leveraged our easy connection to Seattle and the gateway to Asia that we are. We could become a medical tech hub as well. We could be a centre for finance as well if we invested properly, particularly since oil is now on a downslide. Our local governments simply have no vision. Our residents are too afraid of change to actually do, well anything really, and all our innovators simply move elsewhere.