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Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- mtgx 10y agoFrom almost a democracy to world's second North Korea, virtually overnight. Impressive. But I also think this will backfire badly for Erdogan.
- hafreni 10y agoI agree... This is just a temporary thing for sure. NATO isn't too happy with the outcome of this, so I presume that something is going to come of that.
- vkou 10y agoLike what? They will give lip service to political freedom, but won't kick out their most important member. Erdogan can carry out a holocaust, and NATO would prefer it over seeing him on team Russia.
- hafreni 10y agoI don't think jumping to the conclusion that Erdogan could carry out a holocaust and come out unscathed by NATO is a logical assertion. At some point, another nation will intervene, because Turkey is a fairly major portion of infrastructure in the world. I'm not an expert, or even amazing with politics, so I could be completely wrong, but I accept that. (To each their own opinion, right?)
- gozur88 10y agoNATO has been irritated with Erdogan for a long time now. These kinds of military alliances are supposed to promote stability, and it doesn't help when one of your members is provoking potential adversaries, as Turkey did by shooting down a Russian light bomber.
- dragonwriter 10y ago> From almost a democracy to world's second North Korea, virtually overnight. There's a whole lot of existing countries between Turkey (even Turkey today) and North Korea.
- DashRattlesnake 10y agoIs he going to start revoking driver's licenses next? I doubt anyone could stage a successful coup if they're forced to use the bus.
- cloudjacker 10y agoonion article in the making
- hafreni 10y agoI wouldn't be surprised to be honest...
- ecopoesis 10y agoIf he follows the Islamic dictator playbook, only women's driving licenses will be revoked.
- sciurus 10y agoSpeaking of travel, he's banned all academics from traveling abroad. Also ont he topic of education, he's ordered the closing of more than 600 schools, the resignation of more than 1,500 university deans, and revoked the licenses of 21,000 teachers. http://nyti.ms/29SUzis http://nyti.ms/29SUzis http://nyti.ms/29VJihy http://nyti.ms/29VJihy
- drinchev 10y agoI also read somewhere about book stores being smashed, because of selling books against Erdogan. Can't find the source, because I'm on my phone.
- BurningFrog 10y ago"Then they came for the library cards..."
- gpvos 10y agoArchive: http://archive.is/Iutbr http://archive.is/Iutbr
- Relys 10y agoThis is going to end poorly... False flag or not, the coup has given Erdogan an excuse to flush out and exterminate all who oppose him. Anyone want to take bets how long until NATO will revoke Turkey's membership?
- twblalock 10y agoUnfortunately, the people of Turkey were going to be screwed no matter how the coup went. If it had succeeded, they would have got a military dictatorship. Now they get a different kind of dictatorship instead. Erdogan was slowly evolving into a dictator before the coup, and now he's accelerating that process. I wonder if the best outcome for democracy in Turkey would have been a attempted coup which resulted in Erdogan's death before it failed. I don't know of any Turkish politicians who would have been able to build a dictatorship as successfully as Erdogan.
- waterphone 10y agoThe Turkish military has a long history of executing a coup and then returning control to a new civilian government. While military coups often lead to military dictatorships, that has not been the case in Turkey, and it is in fact one of the established roles of the Turkish military to do so. > Turkish Armed Forces see themselves as the guardians of the secular and unitary nature of the Republic along with Atatürk's reforms and have intervened by taking over the government three times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Turkey#Influence_of_the_military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Turkey#Influen...
- baudehlo 10y agoBut after this, will that ever be allowed to happen again? This coup, false flag or not, has spelled the end of that control.
- waterphone 10y agoProbably not. My only point was that in Turkey, a coup does not necessarily mean a military dictatorship. Which people apparently disagree with despite the facts and downvote me angrily for saying. This fucking site, man.
- vvanders 10y agoThat doesn't really bode well for Turkey. FWIW the US did the same during WW1 and WW2 albeit under different circumstances.
- ProfDigory 10y agoUS did what during WW1 and WW2? Did the US revoke amateur radio licenses?
- sliverstorm 10y agoThere were radio silence orders during critical moments, such as air raids, but that's all I know of.
- nkurz 10y agoI guess one could quibble about the difference between "revoke" and "suspend", but yes, they did at least for WW2. On December 8, 1941, the FCC issued Order Number 87, which read in part: "Whereas a state of War exists between the United States and the Imperial Japanese government, and the withdrawal from private use of all amateur frequencies is required for the purpose of National Defense; IT IS ORDERED, that except as may hereafter be specifically authorized by the Commission, no person shall engage in any amateur radio operation...and all frequencies heretofore allocated to amateur radio stations under Part 12 of the Rules and Regulations ARE HEREBY WITHDRAWN. All amateur licensees are hereby notified that the Commission has ordered the immediate suspension of all amateur radio operation in the continental U.S., its territories and possessions." http://www.vpnavy01.com/websites/ke3w/history.html#24 http://www.vpnavy01.com/websites/ke3w/history.html#24
- batuhanicoz 10y agoInteresting. I can't seem the find the official press release for this. RTÜK web site doesn't seem to list anything, quoted TRAC organization web site is the same. Am I missing something?
- jlgaddis 10y agoThere's an update at the bottom of the article saying that this information was incorrect/wrong.
- lightlyused 10y agoNot sure what is going on. Dx cluster shows Turkish ham activity. sh/dx ta 14076.0 TA4SO 20-Jul-2016 2142Z <EA3OH> 14019.9 TA3D 20-Jul-2016 2101Z <W7SW> 14072.0 TA7DX 20-Jul-2016 2038Z CQ...PSK31 <JA3SWL> 10143.7 TA1CM 20-Jul-2016 1951Z <EW4R> 14016.0 TA3D 20-Jul-2016 1949Z tnx QSO <RT9AT> 10143.7 TA1CM 20-Jul-2016 1949Z cq rtty <SV3EXU> 14016.0 TA3D 20-Jul-2016 1946Z Tnx for QSO <DL3CQ> 14016.0 TA3D 20-Jul-2016 1938Z <JL1BDI> 14016.0 TA3D 20-Jul-2016 1937Z TNX <IZ7XZJ> 14016.0 TA3D 20-Jul-2016 1934Z <DF1LON>
- qwertyuiop924 10y agoThey apparently didn't take away all of the licenses.
- ProfDigory 10y agoGovernments can take away licenses but not rights.
- secfirstmd 10y agoCan anyone tell me why this article got flagged on HN????
- baby 10y agoall articles about the terrorist attack in France the other day got flagged as well. Probably for the same reasons?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- pinewurst 10y agoThis is relevant for HN as it involves the attempted crackdown on individuals using technology to communicate. Especially when it involves a channel that doesn't go through a government gatekeeper.
- gpvos 10y agoI guess some people found it too political.
- lightlyused 10y agoSee comment by utku_karatas2
- deleted 10y ago
- allendoerfer 10y agoWhat's the point of being a dictator? I sometimes think of really cool stuff one should do and think: "Well you would have to be a dictator to do that.". Maybe I am indoctrinated in Western propaganda but off the top of my had I cannot come up with a cause that is worthwhile enough to pursue if you consider the negative consequences of a dictatorship. Maybe AI, space stuff or immortality - essentially the same thing. First of all I think these are overrated. The fun thing about these is the thought that "holy fuck we will actually do it!!". When it is there it will be like commercial aviation. And even if you truly want to accomplish them by all means, the best strategy I can come up with is a) get the best of the best and b) throw all your money at them. If you perform a Gleichschaltung it will definitely harm your ability to throw money. So my dictatorship would consist mostly of cost cutting, economic incentives, educational reforms, reducing administration costs - essentially what every government claims to try anyway.
- zyxley 10y ago> What's the point of being a dictator? Being able to do anything you want. > if you consider the negative consequences of a dictatorship Being a dictator generally involves not caring about the negative consequences for anyone else, while assuming that you can effectively mitigate any negative consequences for yourself.
- bad_alloc 10y ago1) Power feels awesome. You'll use your power to get more power because it feels so good to see those you hate having to bow to you. 2) Educated people are dangerous as they will almost certainly doubt the legitimacy of your rule and more importantly have the ability to plot against you. Hence they must go. I applaud your thinking, as it is empathic towards your hypothetical subjects :) However people like Erodogan do not think at such a level. Assume a primitive (but not dumb) egocentric world view in dictators. If they had empathy, they wouldn't have been able to fight to get to where they are now.
- allendoerfer 10y agoPower is certainly nice, but I don't need others to know that I am powerful. I find many situations are much more amusing if you do not share them with others but just acknowledge them for yourself. I think there is a purity and elaborateness to it if you don't live of the reactions of others, even if it is just situational humour or in the case of power "knowing that you could". I like it, because if you are not naturally very introverted, it takes some self-discipline. Exercising and amassing power in contrast seems like a more primitive approach to me. The true upper class does not have to show off. The true stars do not have to fish for attention. The true powerful do not need to be a dictator?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- pinewurst 10y agoWhy has this been flagged?
- dang 10y agoUsers flag stories that they think don't belong on HN.
- utku_karatas2 10y agoI am flagging down all Turkey related threads these days. I don't see how political debates about the failed coup is a subject to be discussed on HN.
- guard-of-terra 10y agoI think you just have a horse in this race yourself and are trying to cover up for it.
- enraged_camel 10y agoWanton flagging like that is a good reason to have your flagging privileges taken away by the mods. Besides, you're Turkish. If you don't want the world's attention to be drawn to the joke that Turkey has become (I say this as a Turk), then your flagging is probably politically motivated.
- wmf 10y agoThere's potentially an interesting discussion to be had here about the technical and political effects of ham radio during disruptions in "official" centralized communications systems, e.g. during a coup or counter-coup crackdown. But of course we're just getting a "Turkey politics 101" thread instead.
- utku_karatas2 10y agoThat's exactly why I've been flagging. The discussions are almost identical with some conspiracy theories, how Turkey is going backwards and how much Erdogan sucks. This is just r/WorldNews level stuff right there.
- toomuchtodo 10y agoPlease don't export Turkey's censorship to the rest of the world.
- Lagged2Death 10y agoAmateur radio operators are organized. They are an international auxiliary communication system. They are an information channel that is largely outside the control of governments. They are a human network. I simply can't imagine what relevance that would have to the HN crowd.
- niftich 10y agoIf you broadcast amateur radio, is it possible to 'hide' from enforcement? Are there mechanisms that an enforcement authority can use to find your physical location? Is it possible to ostensibly rebroadcast a government-approved channel, but with additional stenography or mixing to embed information?
- toomuchtodo 10y agoDepends on how long you're transmitting for. If you're transmitting to repeaters (which take in a signal on one frequency and rebroadcast on another), the time required to find you will go up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIGAOLJh-XE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIGAOLJh-XE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_repeater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_repeater
- Fej 10y agoLaw enforcement can triangulate ham radio signals. From what I understand it's relatively easy to do in the US.
- lightlyused 10y agoThere used to be a remote FCC receive site near me. Looked like a fake pine tree. Only new about it because of a local broadcast engineer told me where it was.
- LeoPanthera 10y ago> Are there mechanisms that an enforcement authority can use to find your physical location? Yes, it's unimaginatively called "direction finding". Hams often do it as a sport, and sometimes to locate unlicensed operators causing interference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_direction_finding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_direction_findin... > Is it possible to ostensibly rebroadcast a government-approved channel, but with additional stenography or mixing to embed information? Absolutely possible, though international amateur radio regulations prevent the concealing of information in a transmission.
- wmf 10y ago
- jrockway 10y agoInteresting. I wonder if they will be allowed to remain in the ITU.
- jondubois 10y agoAnd to think that Turkey was considered for EU membership - That's definitely off the table now. It's a testament as to how quickly Turkey has declined. Even without EU membership, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Turkish people will try to relocate to Europe and elsewhere. This would be a massive brain and capital drain for Turkey - Especially given that this is a country which was considered safe and progressive not so long ago...
- lettergram 10y agoThey can try... they revoked a lot of people's ability to travel.
- MichaelGG 10y agoWill they still get visa free travel to the EU? Seems like they have a big enough stick with all the refugees.
- harywilke 10y agono, and i seriously doubt they were every going to. the list of conditions to be met was long.
- Amezarak 10y agoThat may be bad for both Turkey and the countries they flee to. Turkey was/is a democracy. The people of Turkey created the current political environment. If they go elsewhere, they will be influencing politics beyond Turkey, maybe in similar ways.
- beyti 10y agoThere is a distinct separation between the people who made the country as it is now and the people who couldn't prevent them. As for your concern; the lacking prevention of the now felt almost-dictatorship is a strong evidence of the lack of politics involvement of the group which is against this kind of Turkey now. So your concern is right, if the people who made this country this way gets to flee; it's not if the people who couldn't stop this country be this way gets to flee.
- crb002 10y agoI think it's time for the U.S. to erect an Armenian Genocide monument in D.C. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
- peterwwillis 10y agoThe U.S. still doesn't even recognize it officially as being genocide, so, no, it's probably not time yet. We're pretty much deaf, dumb and blind when it comes to genocide. We generally allow governments to kill their own people, and often other people, as long as they're brown. When they're white, we draw the line at them killing other people. Sometimes. https://clg.portalxm.com/library/keytext.cfm?keytext_id=52 https://clg.portalxm.com/library/keytext.cfm?keytext_id=52 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ghosts/themes/response.html http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ghosts/themes/... https://www.ushmm.org/confront-genocide/speakers-and-events/all-speakers-and-events/genocide-prevention-morality-and-the-national-interest/american-responses-to-genocide-and-mass-violence-in-the-past-transcript https://www.ushmm.org/confront-genocide/speakers-and-events/... http://www.internationaljusticeproject.com/american-response-to-darfur/ http://www.internationaljusticeproject.com/american-response... http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/09/bystanders-to-genocide/304571/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/09/bystande... http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestoryamericas/2012/11/201211295425270859.html http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestoryamericas/2012... http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/27/opinion/congo-war-ignored-vava-tampa/ http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/27/opinion/congo-war-ignored-vava...
- vonnik 10y agoCan we correct the headline to say "Turkish government"?
- gravypod 10y agoWith the hobby already on it's last legs it's sad to see even 1 person loose their license. That's even without taking in consideration the political and social ramifications of these actions. With an extra exam and a bit of time learning CW I can get news directly from people who live in countries around the world. Now that just isn't possible in some countries.
- melchebo 10y agoThere a Turkish ham radio operators replying on the blog that they know of nothing of this kind. Maybe this "news" was made up?
- rtrsqrrl 10y agoThey didn't revoke any ham license: http://www.dx-world.net/ham-radio-in-turkey/ http://www.dx-world.net/ham-radio-in-turkey/ At least not yet.
- throwaway7767 10y agoLooks like the article has been updated to indicate that this is false information (see the red text at the bottom): "We’re happy to confirm that this news has been disproved we apologise for the false information given but apparently local hams from Istanbul city were interdicted from transmitting until yesterday"
- jlgaddis 10y agoN.B.: Update at bottom of article saying this information was wrong.