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Ask HN: What's the most simple way to accept monthly subscription fees?

109 points by arnorhs 17y ago

I've got a web application with monthly subscription fees. What's the easiest way to implement monthly billing? Is there an app out there that handles that kind of stuff for you? Side-question: what's the cheapest way? That is, requiring the lowest transaction fee.

jdrock 17y ago
We use Google Checkout. Fees are comparable to PayPal.. documentation is much better. There are plenty of other 3rd party solutions, but GC and PP are probably the best two.
kapitti 17y ago
CheddarGetter.com
petercooper 17y ago
http://chargify.com/ http://chargify.com/ - the front page does a good job of selling it. It has a good API and they take care of almost everything - you just need to list the stuff you want to offer and either point people at a special Chargify page or pass info through the API.
rufo 17y ago
I've had very good experiences with Spreedly... you'll need to get a payment gateway, but they handle all the work of renewals, expiration dates, plan upgrading/downgrading, etc. They have a RESTful API so you can check status at any time, and will also ping a URL you specify when somebody's status changes so you can clear any cached data. They also do a pretty great job of support via their Get Satisfaction site and via e-mail.
dryicerx 17y ago
Simplest is probably http://cheddarGetter.com http://cheddarGetter.com or http://spreedly.com http://spreedly.com or http://chargify.com http://chargify.com (they store and abstract the payment gateway apis for you, and do recurrence, along with managing and handling the user data, and exposing a super simple api to your end). But the catch is they also charge a fee... The cheapest is to use a service like Paypale/FirstData/etc which are a bit more tricky to setup that the cheddary/spreedly but also offer recurrance charging. The catch is you'd have to keep track of the user data and management, and slighly more tricker to change providers .
- arnorhs 17y ago
  That's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. Chargify looks really good. The whole thing is explained nicely in the video even though it doesn't go into any details about the gateway. Do you guys have any idea which one of those three are the biggest? Because I would assume the one with the most customers is the most reliable one... Even though that logic might be broken.
  - JayNeely 17y ago
    Spreedly has worked really well for us. They have at least 57 services using them, through their kickstart program ( http://spreedly.com/info/kickstart/ http://spreedly.com/info/kickstart/ ), but I imagine there's a good deal more that simply don't have / want to put $699 upfront (to avoid all monthly flat fees, and reduce per transaction fees to $0.10).
    - cobrabyte 17y ago
      We went with Spreedly because of the kickstart program. $699 upfront was so very enticing and, though we've not launched our service yet, knowing our per-transaction fees are capped at $0.10, it makes cost forecasting that much easier.
  - jakehow 17y ago
    Chargify is led by EngineYard founder Lance Walley, and came out of Grasshopper's (http://grasshopper.com http://grasshopper.com) inhouse incubator. I would not hesitate to go with them.
  - wheels 17y ago
    The elephant in the room with all of those systems (we use Chargify) is that you still have to sort out getting a merchant account on your own, which depending on how well set up your company is, may be non-trivial. If, as it would seem from your profile, you are in Iceland this will be especially hard since you'll probably need an American entity with a bank account to be able to use many of those systems.
jot 17y ago
http://recurly.com http://recurly.com is another similar option.
jpcx01 17y ago
Anyone know if there's similar services for non-recurring payments? I'm currently planning on using e-junkie but its kind of a piece of crap. Looking for a slicker integration similar to spreedly or chargify.
- bryanh 17y ago
  I actually run a site called BitBuffet that let's you sell individual files (like PDFs). Or are you wanting to charge a one time fee for access to a site?
rubyrescue 17y ago
We're planning on using Spreedly on http://seoaholic.com http://seoaholic.com, however, unrelated to Spreedly, which is easy to configure, getting the merchant account is the hard part. 'From scratch' it has taken close to 60 days - creating a company (LLC), securing a bank account, having the bank verify your physical location (even though you don't have one - don't ask) - total about 20 days. Next, FirstData for the merchant account - talk to an account manager, then fill out a paper application, which leads to an online application via a relatively inflexible javascript-heavy website, then faxing supporting documentation, then applying for a state DBA license because the company name and the physical name don't match. Then, faxing personal bills with addresses that must match the physical address of the business address, even though there isn't one. All-in, this phase took about 20 days. Next, website edits - They didn't like the word 'forever' on the pricing page, because it was too open ended. This phase has taken about 10 days. We think we'll get it all done this week, at this point we're just waiting for an answer, but we had no idea how long it could take.
- DTrejo 17y ago
  getting the merchant account is the hard part Swombat wrote great article on this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=530055 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=530055
zackattack 17y ago
I used Amazon Payments for CustomerFind.com. It's really easy to use, but the documentation is kind of outdated. If you want I could tutor you, send me an email.
- idlewords 17y ago
  I liked the developer side of Amazon Payments, but had a lot of complaints about them from non-US customers, who found that they couldn't pay without a US credit card or address.
  - smakz 17y ago
    To be clear they should be able to use international credit cards, but not international bank accounts. http://aws.amazon.com/fps/faqs/#c3 http://aws.amazon.com/fps/faqs/#c3
mootothemax 17y ago
If you want quick, easy and cheap, go with PayPal. They have a button generator tool that takes the hassle out of submitting html forms to them. There are plenty of libraries out there that will listen for their IPNs (instant payment notifications) so that you can update the user's subscription record on your site. And there are no start up costs, win! ;) That said, personally I'd start with PayPal, see if anyone gives you any money, and the moment users start paying switch to a proper merchant account and CC processor ;)
webwright 17y ago
Great article comparing the assorted vendors you can use (with pros and cons): http://www.untitledstartup.com/2010/02/accepting-payments-on-the-real-time-web/ http://www.untitledstartup.com/2010/02/accepting-payments-on...
DanBlake 17y ago
www.amember.com - Its a script you install to your server and gives you the ability to accept over 50+ gateways. Very nice and only a one time fee.
- jpalmer 17y ago
  Just used amember for a small project I needed to get up and running quickly. Easy to use, simple to setup. Downsides: requires apache/php.
fossguy 17y ago
The best cheapest and easiest one is Paypal.
- jellicle 17y ago
  Until they steal all your money.
  - dangrossman 17y ago
    PayPal never steals all of your money. The worst that can happen is a 180 day freeze before funds are turned over to you, which is exactly the same way all payment processors handle risk issues. That's how long Visa/MC tells MAPs to hold the funds because that's the standard time limit on customers performing chargebacks, which becomes the basis of the policies set by the 3rd party processors that are in contract with MAPs to do the actual card charging.
    - dan_manges 17y ago
      The worst that can happen is your company goes out of business. http://whiteelephantmedia.com/ http://whiteelephantmedia.com/ - Paypal requested $600k to keep the account open.
      - dangrossman 17y ago
        That is a pretty amazing story, the likes of which I've never read before. I can't even imagine how that situation came to be!
    - jellicle 17y ago
      Results 1 - 20 of about 32,000 for "paypal stole my money". (0.29 seconds) No, Paypal's thefts are not generally about issues with Visa/MC, but rather with Paypal unilaterally deciding that an account is "fraudulent", and Paypal deciding to permanently keep all funds in that account. This is in addition to their broken dispute resolution process as well. Using Paypal is a risk that a corporation should be required to disclose to all investors in bold print. "WARNING: THIS COMPANY USES PAYPAL TO PROCESS PAYMENTS AND THUS MAY BE PUT OUT OF BUSINESS AT ANY TIME WITHOUT NOTICE."
notnoop 17y ago
A bit unrelated, but I found http://pivotallabs.com/talks/88-demystifying-online-billing http://pivotallabs.com/talks/88-demystifying-online-billing to offer a good explanation for managing recurring payments and what to watch out for.
jlesk 17y ago
There were even fewer options when I wanted to go this route 2 years ago, so I just went with a standard payment processor (BMT Micro) and charge one-time payments for users to pre-pay for time. e.g. $19.99 for 3 months or $59.99 for a year. If you want to get from zero to charging ASAP, this might be worth considering. You could probably be integrated in a day or so. They are mainly geared toward downloadable software vendors, but I just use the "serial code" field as an Activation Code that the user enters into their profile page. BMT Micro's royalty rate is around 10%, have awesome customer service, and just added a recurring option. The main downside is limited control over the template. I would also look into FastSpring since they are newer and seem to have more flexibility with the store configuration.
lwalley 17y ago
Hey, thanks to all who have mentioned Chargify. We definitely appreciate it! The issue of long-term viability is a valid one... I would ask the same thing when evaluating vendors, and, in fact, I used the same logic in choosing to join Chargify last Fall. I really like my co-founders' 6-year history running Grasshopper.com, and they architected things right - based on roughly 10 million telephony transactions that their existing system rates each month. And, for what it's worth, my first company is still selling Basic Stamp computers 23 years after we founded it, and Engine Yard is growing every month. I can speak for all 3 founders of Chargify when I say that we enjoy building utilitarian businesses that deliver good value over a long time. Thanks! --- Lance
- cubicle67 17y ago
  Basic Stamps came out >= 23 years ago?! Suddenly I feel old :(
mogston 17y ago
Does anyone have any experience with Amazon Payments? I Was considering them as a viable alternative to our existing PayPal solution.
lunaru 17y ago
Most of the responses here have been in response to whether or not there are apps out there that do this for you. However, if you want to go down the road of building this yourself, it's not really that involved. Take a look at ActiveMerchant if you're doing Rails. It helps you integrate with a good list of payment gateways. Then, sign up for that gateway + get a merchant account. This is probably the best way to get the lowest fees. For example, I believe CDGCommerce offers merchant accounts at $10/month with a free payment gateway. The typical $0.30 + 2.9% (or whatever your rate is, depending on risk, etc.) applies. Another path for this is Website Payments Pro via Paypal. With IPN you can easily sync your user subscription status with the latest payment information. Doing recurring billing via subscription fees, like all programming is handling corner cases. For this domain, the corner case is a combination of invalid credit card numbers, expired numbers, perpetual zero-balance but valid numbers, overzealous anti-fraud filters, overdrawn accounts, or even temporary credit card numbers. Which ever service or integration path you choose, make sure you're covering the these corner cases. Based on all this, my advice is to build in-house so you have the flexibility of changing policies on-the-fly with regards to how you handle those above cases. YMMV.
proee 17y ago
Check out http://www.cariboucms.com http://www.cariboucms.com - it's great for recurring billing and managing members. Supports multiple gateways as well.
paraschopra 17y ago
If you are based outside of US or Europe, 2checkout.com may be the best bet. I have researched this question to th death and it seems 2checkout may be the best one. With others you will need a US bank account.
timvanloan 17y ago
Thanks for the mentions of Recurly, we built our subscription billing engine from the ground up to make it as simple and easy to deploy subscription as possible. The untitled startup did a great unbiased review of the various subscription billing options out there (which you can find here: http://www.untitledstartup.com/2010/02/accepting-payments-on-the-real-time-web/ http://www.untitledstartup.com/2010/02/accepting-payments-on...). They ended up choosing Recurly for their subscription billing. There are several items to consider when choosing a subscription billing option. Many have already been mentioned (cost, implementation time, the country you're doing business in) but you should also consider the size of each transaction you're doing. Will you be doing lots of small transactions? Fewer large transactions? The answer to that question will have a big impact on the fees you'll pay for the off the shelf solutions (as well as your merchant account/payment gateway). In addition to transaction fees, there are a number of other hidden challenges and "gotchas" to be aware of when billing online. You can see some of our suggestions on our blog here: http://blog.recurly.com/2010/01/lessons-learned-in-online-subscription-billing/ http://blog.recurly.com/2010/01/lessons-learned-in-online-su... Recurly also supports the largest amount of international payment gateway (you can find the full list here: http://support.recurly.com/faqs/payment-gateways/payment-gateway-support http://support.recurly.com/faqs/payment-gateways/payment-gat... Let us know if you have any other questions we can assist with, we're happy to help. Thanks! Tim
shadowz 17y ago
Take a look over here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1182653 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1182653 I posted the same question 10 days ago :P
malbiniak 17y ago
There was a pretty good comparison between the main ones mentioned here some time back. Worth checking into. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=975301 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=975301
stympy 17y ago
Don't forget the SaaS Rails Kit at http://railskits.com/saas/ http://railskits.com/saas/ if you're writing a Rails app. :)