11 ms·

Minnesota woman broadcasts police stop and shooting on Facebook Live

138 points by _pius 10y ago

tomschlick 10y ago
As someone who carries on a regular basis, the #1 rule when dealing with the police is compliance. Yes sir, no sir, the weapon is on my hip, my hands are on the steering wheel and you don't move unless told to do so. A cop is always on edge during a traffic stop but even more so after you tell them you have a weapon. Quick movements after you tell them you are armed is not going to end well. Obviously we don't know the whole story here as the video starts after the shooting, but hopefully there is body cam footage to clear everything up.
- llamataboot 10y ago
  Oh, I think since cell phone cameras became ubiquitous we know enough stories to know the whole story, even if we haven't seen the exact details of this particular case yet.
  - tomschlick 10y ago
    > we know enough stories to know the whole story, even if we haven't seen the exact details of this particular case yet So you're assuming something happened without any evidence? That is a horrible way to go about things. We saw the same thing in the Micheal Brown case, people threw crazy stories out there about him being executed with his hands up and people rioted, looted, and burned the town down. Then a few months later we saw the actual evidence that proved he attacked that officer, ran away, and came back.
    - llamataboot 10y ago
      I'm not assuming anything. I know that despite whatever happened in this particular case (though it would seem rare to tell a cop you have a gun and then try to shoot him with it, and then be a cop freaking out, cursing and shaking over what you have just done, and by all accounts this guy was a super stand up guy, great school employee, no rap sheet, etc, etc, etc), that despite whatever happened in this particular case we have a problem with institutionalized violence against bodies of color in the United States, especially Black males. We have a structural problem with highly militarized police that believe they are fighting a war against the people they are paid to protect. We have a problem with holding those police accountable for their actions. The whole story is a long story, starting with slavery, continuing through redlining and segregation, etc but this whole story is a story about cops that kill more people in a day in this country than other industrialized countries have in a year. It's a story about unarmed Black men being killed at disproportionate rates even while white mass shooters are brought in alive and heavily armed. It's a whole story about a lot of things actually - a prison industrial complex grown bloated, a war on drugs that doesn't work, police training that is incomplete or wrong, complacent citizens, etc. But again, I'm not passing judgement on whether this particular killing was "justified" or not. I'm just saying we already know the whole story, and the whole story is bigger than this particular tragic ending.
      - tomschlick 10y ago
        I'd agree with you that some police are too heavy handed for the everyday situation. However, there are a lot of violence / gang problems within the black communities in the US. That leads to cities and police forces cracking down on those violent areas which leads to even more heavy handedness and even more distrust by those communities. Its a perpetual cycle. It seems that we need a revolution on both sides for anything meaningful to happen. Sadly we probably won't see that happen anytime soon. Hopefully we can at least pass some meaningful reform related to drug imprisonment which would keep a lot of people out of jail for petty things, which just ends up feeding the cycle to begin with.
        0707_hn 10y ago
        I can't fully address your comment as I don't have access to the relevant data (regarding black community violence and its correlation with "heavy handed" police). What I will suggest is that overall violence does not seem to be correlated with the rate of police killings - see the third image in ref. 1. [1] http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015 http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015 EDIT: I can't reply to you due to the HN rate limit. Please see my response below: I appreciate your response but I take issue with the data source behind that post (ref 1). I don't intend to take it apart fully, but it appeared to included factors (e.g., average commute time) that: 1. Systematically disfavor urban areas 2. Have little bearing to the question at hand, whether violence is correlated with police killings Additionally, my claim above (2) is that violence and police killings, across the municipalities with the highest rates of police killings, are not correlated (ref. 3). [1] http://places.findthehome.com/#guide http://places.findthehome.com/#guide [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048043 [3] http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54ecf211e4b0ed744420c5b6/t/5677f85d1115e0704eb36ed3/1450702944850/ http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54ecf211e4b0ed744420c5...
        tomschlick 10y ago
        Just via some quick googling, here are the most dangerous (violent) cities in the US. A lot of them match up to the top of the list you provided. http://kdvr.com/2015/05/08/by-the-numbers-here-are-the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america/ http://kdvr.com/2015/05/08/by-the-numbers-here-are-the-most-...
  - spraak 10y ago
    I guess direct messages aren't available on HN. I just wanted to thank you for sharing your truth in this thread, it was relieving
- joshkpeterson 10y ago
  I thought carrying a gun was supposed to make your more safe.
saynsedit 10y ago
Why has HN taken this off the front page without explanation?
- mirimir 10y ago
  As I recall, HN algorithms cull posts that rise too fast with too many comments.
- pyrophane 10y ago
  It is possible that it is a victim of the HN ranking algorithm, which I believe discriminates against posts that acquire a lot of comments relative to age/votes as a way to avoid "controversial" posts.
  - Fluda3 10y ago
    So any thread which gets immediate traction is censored? Something seems wrong with that.
- aethr 10y ago
  Probably deemed to be off topic according to the HN guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Although personally, it struck me as very strange that someone who's just witnessed her partner being shot (and who is currently in some need of medical treatment) that her reaction is to reach for her phone and the live streaming feature of an app. I certainly think that falls under "evidence of an interesting new phenomenon". Edit: I don't mean "strange" in any kind of moral judgement. My heart goes out to this woman and her child who had to witness this and who've lost someone close to them. I mean strange in the sense that this isn't how I would expect someone to react. Police brutality has been a serious problem in the US for decades, and it seems that putting a streaming video camera in everyone's pocket might help shift the narrative back in the people's favor.
  - mirimir 10y ago
    Her actions demonstrated amazing presence of mind. She's probably not trained as an EMT. But she did think to document the situation. It's just very lucky that they didn't shoot her too.
a13n 10y ago
Yesterday a man was killed by an officer in Louisiana. Headline: "Man shot by BRPD multiple times to chest and back; two officers placed on leave". How the heck is "leave" a punishment worthy of homicide? And why are these videos always recorded by witnesses rather than body cameras on the police? If we want to stop this from happening then change the officer's punishment to be a prison sentence, strap a camera on every police officer, make the footage available to the public, and fire people when the camera "falls off" or is "obstructed".
- remarkEon 10y ago
  They are placed on leave because, even for Cops, we afford them the presumption of innocence. They are on leave while the investigation proceeds. I'm noting this exogenous to the video evidence that's in the public record now, and that I still believe that leave is appropriate while an investigation proceeds. Otherwise what we have is mob rule. I'm by no means defending the conduct of the officers that we've seen in these videos, but rule of law matters here. Even for Cops.
  - mirimir 10y ago
    They're placed on leave because they might be guilty, I think. Because we want to keep trigger-happy cops off the street. If they're clearly guilty, they're fired, even before trial.
    - remarkEon 10y ago
      No, it is standard practice to place an officer on leave for any officer involved shooting. It has nothing to do with them being "trigger-happy".
      - mirimir 10y ago
        OK, so why do they do that? Just PR? Out of concern for the officer?
ryanmarsh 10y ago
It appears someone posted it to YouTube Pretty grim https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wuyXayGMB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wuyXayGMB8
nicolashahn 10y ago
Link is dead.
- wckronholm 10y ago
  fb probably shut it down. It had footage of a shooting. Very sad and grim stuff.
  - sml156 10y ago
    My guess would be she sold the rights to the highest bidder. FB probably had no choice but to remove it.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - llamataboot 10y ago
      This just happened an hour ago and she is reportedly still in custody.
      - ryanmarsh 10y ago
        Why'd they need to arrest her?
        Blackthorn 10y ago
        Probably for the dastardly crime of filming the police. She'll be thankful that she had the foresight to upload the video as it was being recorded.
        DanBC 10y ago
        Minnesota is a single-party consent state. http://wiretapping.uslegal.com/state-laws/minnesota/ http://wiretapping.uslegal.com/state-laws/minnesota/ > In Minnesota, it is legal for a person to record a wire, oral or electronic communication if that person is a party to the communication, or if one of the parties has consented to the recording so long as no criminal or tortious intent accompanies the recording. Minn. Stat. § 626A.02.
llamataboot 10y ago
Facebook can't sell itself as a new live media platform and then just remove videos that are politically disturbing. As an aside, this is the 559th person killed by police in the United States this year. His name was Philando Castile‬. They were pulled over for a broken tail light. He was shot with a 4 year old child in the backseat of the car. (you can find the video on youtube, twitter, and elsewhere, but be forewarned, it is disturbing)
- joshschreuder 10y ago
  FWIW it appears to be available at the time of this post. https://i.imgur.com/zLaZMxw.png https://i.imgur.com/zLaZMxw.png I'm not game to click it to see if the video actually loads as I actively avoid disturbing content.
  - mparlane 10y ago
    The shooting itself is not part of the video. Video is after the shooting, it shows a man with a blood covered white shirt clutching his arm. The lady filming is talking and asking Jesus to tell her that her boyfriend is not going to die. He looks alive in the video available. And yes it loads.
    - lnguyen 10y ago
      It's been reported that he died shortly after arriving at the hospital http://www.startribune.com/aftermath-of-officer-involved-shooting-captured-on-phone-video/385789251/ http://www.startribune.com/aftermath-of-officer-involved-sho...
- rdtsc 10y ago
  I forgot where I read it but in some states there is a higher chance of getting killed by cops than by a criminal gang. Certainly higher risk than terrorism, it seems.
  - wallace_f 10y ago
matt_wulfeck 10y ago
> "ma'am you're just being detained right now until we can get this all sorted out." Apparently owning a gun and letting the police know of that fact is enough to get you killed. Good luck sorting things out.
- teuobk 10y ago
  Not making any judgments or assumptions about what happened in this case, but there are better and worse ways of informing a police officer that you're carrying. To start, not all states obligate concealed carry permit holders to inform police that they are carrying. However, if you're pulled over, and you do want to inform the officer, keep your hands on the wheel and calmly tell the officer that you have a permit to carry concealed. Tell them that you are currently doing so -- again, without having moved your hands. Ask them how they would like you to proceed. You will probably be asked where the firearm is located. They might ask you to step out of the car so they can temporarily relieve you of your weapon. They might just say something like "don't reach for yours, and I won't reach for mine." Bottom line: let the officer guide you, and keep your movements slow and deliberate. DON'T say the words "gun" or "weapon" or anything like that. Those are keywords that can trigger an instinctive reaction in the officer, and they might not be able to hear anything else you say thanks to a rush of adrenaline. Interestingly, Minnesota is not a state where CCW holders are obligated to disclose their permit or weapon to peace officers.
  - grandalf 10y ago
    The officer didn't even try to help the man as he was bleeding all over the car and clearly unconscious. It's just unconscionable that a trained safety officer would allow someone to bleed like that, and even worse that the officer pulled the trigger.
    - tomschlick 10y ago
      The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Not only that but if the guy really did react in a threatening manner the officer is providing cover to make sure the gun doesn't come back out. I'm not advocating one side or the other on this, just letting you know how the protocols work.
Animats 10y ago
Currently the top story on the New York Daily News and the Washington Post.
wallace_f 10y ago
America has some institutional and cultural problems that no other developed, westernized democracy has, at least in terms of the extent of the problems. One of these is policing. What happens in these cases is taxpayers will need to pay for a settlement. The officers, and their departments, are often not held seriously accountable. In the recent shooting of Alton Sterling that just happened, the officer's body cameras "fell off." Oh, oops. Why is that acceptable? Compare this to other professions: A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It is: you will lose your life savings, even potentially their medical license. Police should be the most transparent of organizations, and the most scrutinized, not immune to it. What happened to protect and serve?
- icebraining 10y ago
  A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It is: you will lose your life savings Really? Don't they have insurance for that?
  - wallace_f 10y ago
    It's true, they all carry malpractice insurance so that doesn't happen. It does not change the fact they can easily make a mistake and lose a case that will cost them their life savings or more, even if it is possible to carry insurance to cover that cost.
- DanBC 10y ago
  > A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It is: you will lose your life savings, even potentially their medical license. Medical errors are a significant cause of death. If the responsible clinician involved lost their life savings every time someone died after a mistake the US wouldn't have any doctors. It also sounds like a lousy way to prevent medical error or to learn from mistakes. Did you mean "mistake", or did you mean something like reckless negligence?
  - wallace_f 10y ago
    >Did you mean "mistake", or did you mean something like reckless negligence? The comparison was to the body camera falling off, which seems closer to reckless negligence, but we don't often hear that language used when discussing policing. Maybe it should be, but let us please not go microscopic in a debate about the meaning of words here -- the comparison is valid, I believe, and I don't think you've shown why it is not? All my argument is saying is that the bar is set extremely high for doctors, extremely low for policeman, and that police officers have an equally important job to do in society, and should be subject to similar standards.
grandalf 10y ago
Why can't we just take guns away from police officers. It would improve the safety of minorities, and also likely help reduce the attitude problems many officers have.
hermannj314 10y ago
The disturbing thing for me is the cop seemed more concerned with keeping his gun out and barking orders than in administering any sort of aid. It seems the God complex is strong in this one that he can't even render aid to a dying human being but instead belittles him "I told you not to move" as if that excuses all of this. That lack of compassion is so disturbing. I'm not a cop, I don't know why it is more important to point a gun at a dying man than render aid, but that's just one of the many thoughts this video evoked for me. So sad. I'm sure there's much more to this story to come. Edit: if you are going to down vote please explain why. The cop is literally watching the man die right in front of him.
- grandalf 10y ago
  I can't believe he'd let the man bleed like that and become unconscious and continue bleeding without trying to administer some sort of first aid.
- tomschlick 10y ago
  Posting this again as I replied to another user above: The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Not only that but if the guy really did react in a threatening manner the officer is providing cover to make sure the gun doesn't come back out. I'm not advocating one side or the other on this, just letting you know how the protocols work.
  - hermannj314 10y ago
    Ok, I guess that's why I got the down vote. Thanks.
    - tomschlick 10y ago
      Yeah idk why others down voted you. It was a legitimate question.
  - 0707_hn 10y ago
    I've made these statements elsewhere; I simply want to be thorough in responding to your comments. In Minnesota, there is an obligation to aid individuals who have been harmed and MN officers are trained to do this. Indeed, reports exist of MN officers responding to gun shot wounds (GSWs). Referenced posts: [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=12047969 https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=12047969 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048024
beedogs 10y ago
Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad cop with a gun.
- DarkTree 10y ago
  Really? Because this guy in the car had a gun, may have been a good guy, and was shot by a police officer.
  - spdustin 10y ago
    From what little information we have so far, he was a good guy, with a minor criminal history who sought to improve his life, ultimately resulting in working the same job for over a decade. That last point is more than can be said about a lot of us here on HN, let's be frank about that. Other than my own business, I haven't held a job longer than a few years. It shows a commitment to his community and the kids he literally and figuratively served while on the job. He tried to do what he knew was the right thing to do. Sadly, it wasn't exactly the right thing in the eyes of the officer involved. Therein will lie the crux of this matter: what led this officer to believe that shooting the man was the correct response? Where did the system fail? Was it at the precinct leadership level? The academy level? Societal or socioeconomic? Because there was a pair of failures here: something or someone failed to prepare the officer for how to handle this situation, and more heart-breaking, something or someone failed to keep the man alive.
  - beedogs 10y ago
    People should intervene more often in these situations.
- thesimpsons1022 10y ago
  if more people did that then maybe they'd stop.
mrlambchop 10y ago
once the lady was cuffed on the ground, I had to turn off - her anguish / pain got real fast. and to see her daughter in the background... :(
- DanBC 10y ago
  https://youtu.be/Z1mlD3t2DV0?t=8m55s https://youtu.be/Z1mlD3t2DV0?t=8m55s "it's okay, I'm right here with you" most heart breaking words from a 4 year old.
prymitive 10y ago
After reading a few comments on how to behave when police stops you and how to tell them you're carrying gun I can't shake the feeling that this country is trapped in some sort of a deadly staring contest, if you blink you can die. You have armed people trying to police a nation where everyone can have a gun, and many do. With this sort of tension on a daily basis things will go wrong, someone will make a mistake, which seems to be what is happening every week. And then people see the news, get scared and buy more guns, because they feel in danger, and later you read more comments on how they should calmly explain that they had a gun when police stopped them.
- hackernewsuck 10y ago
  Literally the only intelligent comment on here.
justifier 10y ago
this is heartbreaking i am so saddened by the loss of life and i am so amazed by lavish and her girl they are both affectingly strong my best attempt at keeping my composure as well as them: are officers trained to withhold giving medical aide? i've seen this a lot in police videos, especially where a death is involved why is this officer continuing to point a gun at a dying person? was the officer preparing to shoot either the person bravely live broadcasting the situation in defiance of the gun, or the child in the backseat, if one tried to apply pressure to the wound or offer water to the victim?
- mirimir 10y ago
  She might have grabbed the gun, and shot back. That seems very unlikely, I know. But that seems to be how police are trained.

138 points by _pius 10y ago

As someone who carries on a regular basis, the #1 rule when dealing with the police is compliance. Yes sir, no sir, the weapon is on my hip, my hands are on the steering wheel and you don't move unless told to do so. A cop is always on edge during a traffic stop but even more so after you tell them you have a weapon. Quick movements after you tell them you are armed is not going to end well. Obviously we don't know the whole story here as the video starts after the shooting, but hopefully there is body cam footage to clear everything up.

llamataboot 10y ago
Oh, I think since cell phone cameras became ubiquitous we know enough stories to know the whole story, even if we haven't seen the exact details of this particular case yet.
- tomschlick 10y ago
  > we know enough stories to know the whole story, even if we haven't seen the exact details of this particular case yet So you're assuming something happened without any evidence? That is a horrible way to go about things. We saw the same thing in the Micheal Brown case, people threw crazy stories out there about him being executed with his hands up and people rioted, looted, and burned the town down. Then a few months later we saw the actual evidence that proved he attacked that officer, ran away, and came back.
  - llamataboot 10y ago
    I'm not assuming anything. I know that despite whatever happened in this particular case (though it would seem rare to tell a cop you have a gun and then try to shoot him with it, and then be a cop freaking out, cursing and shaking over what you have just done, and by all accounts this guy was a super stand up guy, great school employee, no rap sheet, etc, etc, etc), that despite whatever happened in this particular case we have a problem with institutionalized violence against bodies of color in the United States, especially Black males. We have a structural problem with highly militarized police that believe they are fighting a war against the people they are paid to protect. We have a problem with holding those police accountable for their actions. The whole story is a long story, starting with slavery, continuing through redlining and segregation, etc but this whole story is a story about cops that kill more people in a day in this country than other industrialized countries have in a year. It's a story about unarmed Black men being killed at disproportionate rates even while white mass shooters are brought in alive and heavily armed. It's a whole story about a lot of things actually - a prison industrial complex grown bloated, a war on drugs that doesn't work, police training that is incomplete or wrong, complacent citizens, etc. But again, I'm not passing judgement on whether this particular killing was "justified" or not. I'm just saying we already know the whole story, and the whole story is bigger than this particular tragic ending.
    - tomschlick 10y ago
      I'd agree with you that some police are too heavy handed for the everyday situation. However, there are a lot of violence / gang problems within the black communities in the US. That leads to cities and police forces cracking down on those violent areas which leads to even more heavy handedness and even more distrust by those communities. Its a perpetual cycle. It seems that we need a revolution on both sides for anything meaningful to happen. Sadly we probably won't see that happen anytime soon. Hopefully we can at least pass some meaningful reform related to drug imprisonment which would keep a lot of people out of jail for petty things, which just ends up feeding the cycle to begin with.
      - 0707_hn 10y ago
        I can't fully address your comment as I don't have access to the relevant data (regarding black community violence and its correlation with "heavy handed" police). What I will suggest is that overall violence does not seem to be correlated with the rate of police killings - see the third image in ref. 1. [1] http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015 http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/2015 EDIT: I can't reply to you due to the HN rate limit. Please see my response below: I appreciate your response but I take issue with the data source behind that post (ref 1). I don't intend to take it apart fully, but it appeared to included factors (e.g., average commute time) that: 1. Systematically disfavor urban areas 2. Have little bearing to the question at hand, whether violence is correlated with police killings Additionally, my claim above (2) is that violence and police killings, across the municipalities with the highest rates of police killings, are not correlated (ref. 3). [1] http://places.findthehome.com/#guide http://places.findthehome.com/#guide [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048043 [3] http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54ecf211e4b0ed744420c5b6/t/5677f85d1115e0704eb36ed3/1450702944850/ http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54ecf211e4b0ed744420c5...
        tomschlick 10y ago
        Just via some quick googling, here are the most dangerous (violent) cities in the US. A lot of them match up to the top of the list you provided. http://kdvr.com/2015/05/08/by-the-numbers-here-are-the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america/ http://kdvr.com/2015/05/08/by-the-numbers-here-are-the-most-...
- spraak 10y ago
  I guess direct messages aren't available on HN. I just wanted to thank you for sharing your truth in this thread, it was relieving
joshkpeterson 10y ago
I thought carrying a gun was supposed to make your more safe.

saynsedit 10y ago

Why has HN taken this off the front page without explanation?

mirimir 10y ago
As I recall, HN algorithms cull posts that rise too fast with too many comments.
pyrophane 10y ago
It is possible that it is a victim of the HN ranking algorithm, which I believe discriminates against posts that acquire a lot of comments relative to age/votes as a way to avoid "controversial" posts.
- Fluda3 10y ago
  So any thread which gets immediate traction is censored? Something seems wrong with that.
aethr 10y ago
Probably deemed to be off topic according to the HN guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Although personally, it struck me as very strange that someone who's just witnessed her partner being shot (and who is currently in some need of medical treatment) that her reaction is to reach for her phone and the live streaming feature of an app. I certainly think that falls under "evidence of an interesting new phenomenon". Edit: I don't mean "strange" in any kind of moral judgement. My heart goes out to this woman and her child who had to witness this and who've lost someone close to them. I mean strange in the sense that this isn't how I would expect someone to react. Police brutality has been a serious problem in the US for decades, and it seems that putting a streaming video camera in everyone's pocket might help shift the narrative back in the people's favor.
- mirimir 10y ago
  Her actions demonstrated amazing presence of mind. She's probably not trained as an EMT. But she did think to document the situation. It's just very lucky that they didn't shoot her too.

a13n 10y ago

Yesterday a man was killed by an officer in Louisiana. Headline: "Man shot by BRPD multiple times to chest and back; two officers placed on leave". How the heck is "leave" a punishment worthy of homicide? And why are these videos always recorded by witnesses rather than body cameras on the police? If we want to stop this from happening then change the officer's punishment to be a prison sentence, strap a camera on every police officer, make the footage available to the public, and fire people when the camera "falls off" or is "obstructed".

remarkEon 10y ago
They are placed on leave because, even for Cops, we afford them the presumption of innocence. They are on leave while the investigation proceeds. I'm noting this exogenous to the video evidence that's in the public record now, and that I still believe that leave is appropriate while an investigation proceeds. Otherwise what we have is mob rule. I'm by no means defending the conduct of the officers that we've seen in these videos, but rule of law matters here. Even for Cops.
- mirimir 10y ago
  They're placed on leave because they might be guilty, I think. Because we want to keep trigger-happy cops off the street. If they're clearly guilty, they're fired, even before trial.
  - remarkEon 10y ago
    No, it is standard practice to place an officer on leave for any officer involved shooting. It has nothing to do with them being "trigger-happy".
    - mirimir 10y ago
      OK, so why do they do that? Just PR? Out of concern for the officer?

ryanmarsh 10y ago

It appears someone posted it to YouTube Pretty grim https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wuyXayGMB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wuyXayGMB8

nicolashahn 10y ago

Link is dead.

wckronholm 10y ago
fb probably shut it down. It had footage of a shooting. Very sad and grim stuff.
- sml156 10y ago
  My guess would be she sold the rights to the highest bidder. FB probably had no choice but to remove it.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - llamataboot 10y ago
    This just happened an hour ago and she is reportedly still in custody.
    - ryanmarsh 10y ago
      Why'd they need to arrest her?
      - Blackthorn 10y ago
        Probably for the dastardly crime of filming the police. She'll be thankful that she had the foresight to upload the video as it was being recorded.
        DanBC 10y ago
        Minnesota is a single-party consent state. http://wiretapping.uslegal.com/state-laws/minnesota/ http://wiretapping.uslegal.com/state-laws/minnesota/ > In Minnesota, it is legal for a person to record a wire, oral or electronic communication if that person is a party to the communication, or if one of the parties has consented to the recording so long as no criminal or tortious intent accompanies the recording. Minn. Stat. § 626A.02.

llamataboot 10y ago

Facebook can't sell itself as a new live media platform and then just remove videos that are politically disturbing. As an aside, this is the 559th person killed by police in the United States this year. His name was Philando Castile‬. They were pulled over for a broken tail light. He was shot with a 4 year old child in the backseat of the car. (you can find the video on youtube, twitter, and elsewhere, but be forewarned, it is disturbing)

joshschreuder 10y ago
FWIW it appears to be available at the time of this post. https://i.imgur.com/zLaZMxw.png https://i.imgur.com/zLaZMxw.png I'm not game to click it to see if the video actually loads as I actively avoid disturbing content.
- mparlane 10y ago
  The shooting itself is not part of the video. Video is after the shooting, it shows a man with a blood covered white shirt clutching his arm. The lady filming is talking and asking Jesus to tell her that her boyfriend is not going to die. He looks alive in the video available. And yes it loads.
  - lnguyen 10y ago
    It's been reported that he died shortly after arriving at the hospital http://www.startribune.com/aftermath-of-officer-involved-shooting-captured-on-phone-video/385789251/ http://www.startribune.com/aftermath-of-officer-involved-sho...
rdtsc 10y ago
I forgot where I read it but in some states there is a higher chance of getting killed by cops than by a criminal gang. Certainly higher risk than terrorism, it seems.
- wallace_f 10y ago

matt_wulfeck 10y ago

> "ma'am you're just being detained right now until we can get this all sorted out." Apparently owning a gun and letting the police know of that fact is enough to get you killed. Good luck sorting things out.

teuobk 10y ago
Not making any judgments or assumptions about what happened in this case, but there are better and worse ways of informing a police officer that you're carrying. To start, not all states obligate concealed carry permit holders to inform police that they are carrying. However, if you're pulled over, and you do want to inform the officer, keep your hands on the wheel and calmly tell the officer that you have a permit to carry concealed. Tell them that you are currently doing so -- again, without having moved your hands. Ask them how they would like you to proceed. You will probably be asked where the firearm is located. They might ask you to step out of the car so they can temporarily relieve you of your weapon. They might just say something like "don't reach for yours, and I won't reach for mine." Bottom line: let the officer guide you, and keep your movements slow and deliberate. DON'T say the words "gun" or "weapon" or anything like that. Those are keywords that can trigger an instinctive reaction in the officer, and they might not be able to hear anything else you say thanks to a rush of adrenaline. Interestingly, Minnesota is not a state where CCW holders are obligated to disclose their permit or weapon to peace officers.
- grandalf 10y ago
  The officer didn't even try to help the man as he was bleeding all over the car and clearly unconscious. It's just unconscionable that a trained safety officer would allow someone to bleed like that, and even worse that the officer pulled the trigger.
  - tomschlick 10y ago
    The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Not only that but if the guy really did react in a threatening manner the officer is providing cover to make sure the gun doesn't come back out. I'm not advocating one side or the other on this, just letting you know how the protocols work.

Animats 10y ago

Currently the top story on the New York Daily News and the Washington Post.

wallace_f 10y ago

America has some institutional and cultural problems that no other developed, westernized democracy has, at least in terms of the extent of the problems. One of these is policing. What happens in these cases is taxpayers will need to pay for a settlement. The officers, and their departments, are often not held seriously accountable. In the recent shooting of Alton Sterling that just happened, the officer's body cameras "fell off." Oh, oops. Why is that acceptable? Compare this to other professions: A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It is: you will lose your life savings, even potentially their medical license. Police should be the most transparent of organizations, and the most scrutinized, not immune to it. What happened to protect and serve?

icebraining 10y ago
A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It is: you will lose your life savings Really? Don't they have insurance for that?
- wallace_f 10y ago
  It's true, they all carry malpractice insurance so that doesn't happen. It does not change the fact they can easily make a mistake and lose a case that will cost them their life savings or more, even if it is possible to carry insurance to cover that cost.
DanBC 10y ago
> A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It is: you will lose your life savings, even potentially their medical license. Medical errors are a significant cause of death. If the responsible clinician involved lost their life savings every time someone died after a mistake the US wouldn't have any doctors. It also sounds like a lousy way to prevent medical error or to learn from mistakes. Did you mean "mistake", or did you mean something like reckless negligence?
- wallace_f 10y ago
  >Did you mean "mistake", or did you mean something like reckless negligence? The comparison was to the body camera falling off, which seems closer to reckless negligence, but we don't often hear that language used when discussing policing. Maybe it should be, but let us please not go microscopic in a debate about the meaning of words here -- the comparison is valid, I believe, and I don't think you've shown why it is not? All my argument is saying is that the bar is set extremely high for doctors, extremely low for policeman, and that police officers have an equally important job to do in society, and should be subject to similar standards.

grandalf 10y ago

Why can't we just take guns away from police officers. It would improve the safety of minorities, and also likely help reduce the attitude problems many officers have.

hermannj314 10y ago

The disturbing thing for me is the cop seemed more concerned with keeping his gun out and barking orders than in administering any sort of aid. It seems the God complex is strong in this one that he can't even render aid to a dying human being but instead belittles him "I told you not to move" as if that excuses all of this. That lack of compassion is so disturbing. I'm not a cop, I don't know why it is more important to point a gun at a dying man than render aid, but that's just one of the many thoughts this video evoked for me. So sad. I'm sure there's much more to this story to come. Edit: if you are going to down vote please explain why. The cop is literally watching the man die right in front of him.

grandalf 10y ago
I can't believe he'd let the man bleed like that and become unconscious and continue bleeding without trying to administer some sort of first aid.
tomschlick 10y ago
Posting this again as I replied to another user above: The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Not only that but if the guy really did react in a threatening manner the officer is providing cover to make sure the gun doesn't come back out. I'm not advocating one side or the other on this, just letting you know how the protocols work.
- hermannj314 10y ago
  Ok, I guess that's why I got the down vote. Thanks.
  - tomschlick 10y ago
    Yeah idk why others down voted you. It was a legitimate question.
- 0707_hn 10y ago
  I've made these statements elsewhere; I simply want to be thorough in responding to your comments. In Minnesota, there is an obligation to aid individuals who have been harmed and MN officers are trained to do this. Indeed, reports exist of MN officers responding to gun shot wounds (GSWs). Referenced posts: [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=12047969 https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=12047969 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12048024

beedogs 10y ago

Only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad cop with a gun.

DarkTree 10y ago
Really? Because this guy in the car had a gun, may have been a good guy, and was shot by a police officer.
- spdustin 10y ago
  From what little information we have so far, he was a good guy, with a minor criminal history who sought to improve his life, ultimately resulting in working the same job for over a decade. That last point is more than can be said about a lot of us here on HN, let's be frank about that. Other than my own business, I haven't held a job longer than a few years. It shows a commitment to his community and the kids he literally and figuratively served while on the job. He tried to do what he knew was the right thing to do. Sadly, it wasn't exactly the right thing in the eyes of the officer involved. Therein will lie the crux of this matter: what led this officer to believe that shooting the man was the correct response? Where did the system fail? Was it at the precinct leadership level? The academy level? Societal or socioeconomic? Because there was a pair of failures here: something or someone failed to prepare the officer for how to handle this situation, and more heart-breaking, something or someone failed to keep the man alive.
- beedogs 10y ago
  People should intervene more often in these situations.
thesimpsons1022 10y ago
if more people did that then maybe they'd stop.

mrlambchop 10y ago

once the lady was cuffed on the ground, I had to turn off - her anguish / pain got real fast. and to see her daughter in the background... :(

DanBC 10y ago
https://youtu.be/Z1mlD3t2DV0?t=8m55s https://youtu.be/Z1mlD3t2DV0?t=8m55s "it's okay, I'm right here with you" most heart breaking words from a 4 year old.

prymitive 10y ago

After reading a few comments on how to behave when police stops you and how to tell them you're carrying gun I can't shake the feeling that this country is trapped in some sort of a deadly staring contest, if you blink you can die. You have armed people trying to police a nation where everyone can have a gun, and many do. With this sort of tension on a daily basis things will go wrong, someone will make a mistake, which seems to be what is happening every week. And then people see the news, get scared and buy more guns, because they feel in danger, and later you read more comments on how they should calmly explain that they had a gun when police stopped them.

hackernewsuck 10y ago
Literally the only intelligent comment on here.

justifier 10y ago

this is heartbreaking i am so saddened by the loss of life and i am so amazed by lavish and her girl they are both affectingly strong my best attempt at keeping my composure as well as them: are officers trained to withhold giving medical aide? i've seen this a lot in police videos, especially where a death is involved why is this officer continuing to point a gun at a dying person? was the officer preparing to shoot either the person bravely live broadcasting the situation in defiance of the gun, or the child in the backseat, if one tried to apply pressure to the wound or offer water to the victim?

mirimir 10y ago
She might have grabbed the gun, and shot back. That seems very unlikely, I know. But that seems to be how police are trained.