14 ms·

Ask HN: Just got an innocent man out of prison. What now?

• dvcc 10y ago
  This may not be the greatest idea, and may not even be realistic but are there not cash advances on a pending/future lawsuit? I imagine the terms are not friendly, but it may be more successful than a GoFundMe campaign if he becomes desperate enough.
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    Unfortunately, Ray's case has not advanced far enough to make litigation financing a practical option. Financing firms need significantly more assurance of a realistic payoff than they would be able to obtain at this juncture.
    • jessriedel 10y ago
      Do you have a link to anything more concrete about that?
      • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
        Just my own experience submitting judgments to litigation funding firms while cases were pending on appeal.
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• cbames89 10y ago
  What'd he do in the military? He may be able to leverage those skills for immediate employment.
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    He was an infantryman. Kicked down doors in Iraq going room-to-room searching for insurgents. Until the charges are formally dismissed, it's hard to imagine any employer will actually be willing to hire him. The DA's office is really making his life hard by refusing to just immediately stipulate that he's an innocent man.
    • douche 10y ago
      Well, if you are willing to entertain less than legal options, there are tons of enforcement jobs on the market...
      • Retra 10y ago
        Brilliant. A man gets out of prison for crimes he didn't commit and you suggest he go and do something violent and illegal.
    • addled 10y ago
      Are there any job boards for businesses that would consider hiring felons (or innocent folks waiting for record to clear)? I had no luck finding legit sites with a quick Google search, but maybe others are aware of something? If nothing exists, that sounds like an interesting development opportunity.
      • nostrebored 10y ago
        Bakeries are actually one of the business types that hires a large number of felons. You're separated from the cash, kept in a kitchen away from customers, and it doesn't pay the best. But when finding other employment is hard, it's a pretty good option if you can work on the necessary skills.
• mtmail 10y ago
  In Germany the reimbursement is be 25 Euro[1] (28 USD) per day. I hope it's more i the US and other countries. [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haftentsch%C3%A4digung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haftentsch%C3%A4digung
  • Veratyr 10y ago
    That's not great, only $10k/yr. For 11 years of wrongful imprisonment, that's $112000. In the US, there have been cases where the wrongfully imprisoned have received ~600k/yr: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/innocent-man-16-65-million-27-years-prison-article-1.2440849 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/innocent-man-16-65-...
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    In theory, California provides $124 a day in compensation to the wrongfully imprisoned. In practice, the State makes it VERY hard to ever recover those funds. There are guys who were exonerated years ago who are still waiting to receive a single penny.
    • pc86 10y ago
      Can you expound a little on what makes if difficult to recover the funds? What hoops must one jump through that wouldn't be plainly evident in RLJ's particular situation?
      • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
        Sure. There are two primary issues. First, the standard for being compensated is higher than the one for being let out of prison. Ray is free right now because the state has admitted that it no longer has confidence in his conviction. However, it has not affirmatively conceded his innocence. That may sound pedantic. It let him out of prison and admits he isn't the target of the ongoing investigation. But from a legal perspective, it makes all the difference in regards to whether he is actually entitled to compensation. Second, even if the State agrees that someone is theoretically entitled to compensation, there are significant budgetary delays. State law requires public hearings before funds can be appropriated, so sometimes you have to wait months upon months for the funds to be allocated... much less actually delivered.
• costcopizza 10y ago
  Churches. I currently tutor a formerly homeless man whom I met through an Episcopal church. They saw him sleeping outside the front door and took him in. They connected him with low income housing services who found him a subsidized apartment and gave him a job working in the cafeteria of their school. I'd visit a few parishes and ask friends/family who are churchgoing for direction. Best of luck and I hope Ray gets on his feet.
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    That's a great thought. Do you know of any online Christian outlets or forums that might be open to promoting Ray's GoFundMe?
    • masukomi 10y ago
      I think people like to help more directly. I'd talk with churches in the same state as Ray. Physical goods and places to be are as useful as money to a person in that situation, and people typically have a lot of extra "stuff" that they'd be happy to part with to help a person in need, especially if it was brought up in church. They'd probably raise some money directly for him too.
• abpavel 10y ago
  Military > Prison > Military? You mean to vent his rage?
  • pc86 10y ago
    Meaning if he ran cat5 cables for the Army he can run cat5 cables for anyone else. Unfortunately I can't imagine many private companies are in need to of the skills one learns in the infantry.
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    • LyndsySimon 10y ago
      He achieved the rank of sergeant - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that leading a team of four infantrymen into battle probably counts as "management".
      • Mz 10y ago
        It very much counts as management and many companies give preferential hiring to people with military experience. Even low ranking people have to qualify for a security clearance and pass a physical and there is a long list of things that can exclude you from fitness to serve your country. If he had not been in prison for 11 years, his past military experience would absolutely open a great many doors for him. Successfully serving and being honorably discharged says a great many positive things about a person, something many businesses are very aware of and actively look for.
    • fapjacks 10y ago
      I was a sergeant in the infantry and went to Iraq as well. There is no better preparation for managing a team to solve a problem under intense pressure. I ran my own development business for many years and intend to do so again. The US Army Infantry is responsible for who I am today. I am confident the Army gave Ray Jennings skills he will be able to use for the rest of his life.
• fecak 10y ago
  I wonder if Dateline would have interest in updating his story, and if there might be any compensation for something like that. I'm not involved in TV production, but you would think if they had enough interest to report on his conviction (which happens every day) there would be an even better story regarding his release.
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    Dateline has asked me to sit down for an interview with Keith Morrison. I may do that, but there will be no compensation involved.
    • mratzloff 10y ago
      You may do that? You absolutely should. You're promoting his cause. See if you can have space in the program to talk about his transition and the financial assistance campaign in particular.
      • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
        There's a ton of media interest. I'm only going to appear on Dateline if I have some assurance that the new piece will be fairer than the original one that got my attention.
        • danso 10y ago
          What did you find unfair about the original piece? I haven't seen it but I had assumed it would be relatively favorable if Dateline had chosen to publicize the case 15 years after the murder and 6 years after the conviction.
          • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
            The Dateline piece came out right after Ray's conviction. I just happened to see it 5 years later. It portrayed him as a craven killer who was brought to justice only through the Herculean efforts of police and prosecutors who wouldn't let the absence of any physical evidence stop them from getting a conviction.
• danso 10y ago
  Because of the man's relatively common name, it was hard initially to find articles in the mainstream press about his exoneration (at least compared to his 2009 conviction). Here is a recent LA Times article that covers the boilerplate: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-palmdale-student-killed-20160623-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-palmdale-student...
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    It's probably best to search for "Raymond Lee Jennings." The media seem to prefer that formulation of his name, because it sounds creepier. This is the best news article: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-20160624-jennings-release-snap-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-20160624-jenning... And this is a great blog post: http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/prosecutors-ask-court-to-release-guy-they-wrongfully-convicted/10775 http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/prosecutors-ask-court-to-r...
    • rhizome 10y ago
      Convicted persons are usually referred to by full name for specificity, to distinguish them from others who might have similar names.
    • psychometry 10y ago
      Police reports and other legal/municipal documents usually contain middle names, so that's why we often know famous criminals (e.g. Lee Harvey Oswald) by their full names.
    • drzaiusapelord 10y ago
      The media is obligated to use full names as it differentiates people with common names. You can see this at work when, for whatever reason, killer Joel Rifkin was only referred to by his first and last name for a long time in the tabloid press. Lots of people share that name and it was unfair to them to be associated with a killer. There was actually a Seinfeld episode making fun of this as it became a problem in NY which has a lots of Rifkins. Now he's typically referred to as Joel David Rifkin.
• deleted 10y ago
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• curiousgal 10y ago
  Try Reddit.
  • hacker42 10y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4q0c3k/iama_law_student_who_just_freed_an_innocent_man/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4q0c3k/iama_law_stude...
  • ComodoHacker 10y ago
    There must be subreddits on rehabilitation or something.
• smoyer 10y ago
  Ask Peter Thiel to fund his litigation against the state and to put up his living expenses until he wins.
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    Sounds great. Anybody want to give Peter a heads up? :)
  • psychometry 10y ago
    If that doesn't work, maybe Thiel has an extra pair of bootstraps to loan the young man.
  • gerby 10y ago
    If Peter helped this man to get on his feet and find justice, that would be a very noble act. I'm personally willing to donate this exonerated man a computer and teach him how to code user interfaces remotely if he wants. If I could afford to do more, I would. OP Please e-mail me at eddie@trycontractit.com
    • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
      That's very kind of you, Eddie! I'll be in touch. Ray actually just got a laptop, and I'm teaching him the basics of computing. It's amazing how much things have changed in 11 years!
  • jasonmp85 10y ago
    "one of my greater philanthropic things that I’ve done. I think of it in those terms"
• rhizome 10y ago
  Have you tried contacting a social worker in their locality?
• kaila 10y ago
  You might try getting in touch with a local Quaker Meeting. Quakers tend to care a lot about social justice (many have backgrounds in social work) and often support the types of organizations that help folks find things like housing, food, and clothes.
• 2pointsomone 10y ago
  I write this knowing how bad of an idea it is but it still is a gut reaction so I will say it. Find a way to move him to Oakland and get him to be on the YC Basic Income experiment. I bet the learning to YCR from this would be extremely high, given I feel like fixing the prison system will probably be on their agenda for future research.
  • 2pointsomone 10y ago
    I take back my terrible suggestion. His family is down there and there should be no reason he moves away from them.
  • jpindar 10y ago
    It would pretty much ruin the experiment if they allowed volunteers.
• turc1656 10y ago
  I think sticking with the GoFundMe campaign is probably the best way to go. But since it has stalled, it needs to be reinvigorated through some others means. You need to get the attention of someone in the media who will publish an article on the guy. Multiple articles from different publishers would be ideal. If a few medium to high profile companies put something out there you can definitely meet (and probably exceed) your goal. Think of the influx of donations that would pour in if you made the front page of CNN, MSN, BBC, etc. If you have social media accounts, post the links to your GoFundMe page and the personal website you have listed above out on Twitter, Facebook, etc. Better yet, include them as responses/messages directly to accounts held my media corporations because someone at that company is reading them to monitor their PR. And I bet most of the employees subscribe/follow that account as well - and they might see it and pick it up. Example - "Hey @MSN, this story needs to be spread. Please help this man get his life back. http://...." http://...." I also just made a modest donation in support of this cause.
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    Thank you for your advice and your donation! I am doing my best right now to reinvigorate the GoFundMe campaign. I'm grateful to everyone who shares it with others!
• ClintEhrlich 10y ago
  Woah, thanks to all the HN posters who just started donating money!!! That's REALLY generous of you guys. I appreciate it, and so does Ray.
• antisugar 10y ago
  Basic simple cheap outdoor/indoor clothing that is suitable for job interviews. See if you can find it at goodwill. Merino sweater, patagonia jacket or old wool suit, glasses, toothbrush, good backpack, from thrift store.
• antisugar 10y ago
  A lot of colleges and churches will lend people suit jackets and or leather shoes for job interviews. That really helps people, just make sure they feel comfortable and warm/cool enough and don't smell bad for job interview.
• danso 10y ago
  I've only just read about the case but from the current vantage point, it looks like a severe fuckup on the part of the district attorney. I know that suspects revealing non-public details of a homicide can lead to an investigation that uncovers more conclusive evidence...but to base an entire case around that, without any other evidence linking them to the crime? I'm looking forward to reading the post-mortem on how such a case gained enough momentum to drive the DA to prosecute on such flimsy evidence. edit: by "severe" fuckup, I also mean, just plain incomprehensible. At least in other egregious cases, there's a mountain of quasi-science [1] or a coerced false confession [2]...if the drama that managed to propel this bumbling case this far forward doesn't result in at least a HBO miniseries a few years from now, I will be very surprised. [1] http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire [2] http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/507/confessions http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/507/c...
• wyldfire 10y ago
  The letter itself: http://www.ehrlichfirm.com/jennings/Ray-Jennings-Letter-to-CRU-October-2-2015.pdf http://www.ehrlichfirm.com/jennings/Ray-Jennings-Letter-to-C...
  • ScottBurson 10y ago
    I've read about halfway through it and I'm just appalled. They prosecuted Jennings for the sole reason that they had no idea how to find the actual killer. But someone had to pay, and Jennings was the least unlikely suspect that they actually knew how to find (though they had to wait for him to come home from serving in Iraq!). This conviction is a black mark on the record of the great State of California. And it really shows the dangers of listening too closely to victims and their families, who are (understandably, in their pain) often much too quick to fixate on a suspect. Yes, they wanted justice for their daughter -- I get that. But true justice required finding the actual killer. Putting an innocent man in prison is not justice for anybody. BTW I've chipped into the GoFundMe campaign.
• joe8756438 10y ago
  There are many organizations around the country that supply free business attire to people in need. In New York City, where I'm based, main one is "Dress for Success" and in Baltimore there is "Success In Style". I'm sure there is something similar in Clint's area. There might be a directory these organizations online OR just call up either of the ones I mentioned, I bet they could connect you to a place that would help.
• Jemmeh 10y ago
  Clothing: Thrift stores. Specifically, if you go to the church thrift stores and you say "We are trying to help him get back on his feet" they will often give you a discount and/or some clothes for free. Jobs: Side gigs on craigslist. Lawn care, concrete, helping people move...you can look on craigslist and find these. It's not perfect, but it's -some- cash flow until he can find someone willing to hire. Transportation: There are enough funds to get an old car for probably around $1k or less just to start out. Can resell it later and get something better once he gets more stable. But it will provide transport to side gigs and worst case a roof over his head. I've had to sleep in my car more than a few times.
• wireedin 10y ago
  Hollywood, maybe? Netflix made a series on Steven Avery that created an enormous amount of attention to that case. Him being in the army, coming back to his country, being arrested for a activity that he didn't do, spending 11 years behind the bars and finally being released as an innocent man is a great story to tell. Since hollywood is running out of stories these days that could be an option. Hell, maybe Netflix would want to tie this to the next season of "Making a murderer"?
  • yitchelle 10y ago
    It might be a naive question, do you know if Steven Avery or his family came away from those TV shows with some money?
    • wireedin 10y ago
      Don't know those details but his lawyers obviously worked with Netflix on creation of the series. It would be hard to imagine that there was no compensation involved.
      • wireedin 10y ago
        Also on a different note, investing a little money/time on creating an emotional video and posting it on social networks might help on advertising the GoFundMe campaign thus generating more funds.
• tardo99 10y ago
  I read the articles a bit, but I didn't find any information on who the real killer was. Are there any leads?
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    Yes, but I can't talk about them because it's part of an active investigation.
    • tardo99 10y ago
      Also, was there one piece of evidence that really proved he couldn't have done it? I read a bunch of it, and it sounds like you can't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt, but that he still might have done it (meaning, there just isn't much to go on).
      • jessaustin 10y ago
        Are you by chance a cop?
      • tempestn 10y ago
        Your comment might be read to imply that he shouldn't be exonerated unless proven innocent, but giving the benefit of the doubt I expect you're just wondering whether the evidence does in fact prove innocence, or whether it was simply shown not to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt (both of which should result in exoneration). I'm curious myself.
        • tardo99 10y ago
          I know and agree he should be exonerated if the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard can't be reached. I was just curious if there was some evidence that showed that he was factually innocent.
      • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
        1. There was no evidence of Ray's guilt. Zero. Nada. Every single accusation is refuted point-by-point in our letter to the DA's office, which I invite you to read. 2. There was physical evidence that directly exonerated Ray, including the the negative results of the gunshot residue test on his uniform, and the absence of pseudo-stipling on his pants. 3. There was overwhelming circumstantial evidence pointing to Ray's innocence. For example, the prosecution could never explain why he would have brought an unregistered 9mm firearm to work in the first place. Nor could they explain why, after committing the murder, he would have stayed at the scene and called the police. 4. There is significant evidence pointing to the guilt of a different individual, which will be revealed once the current active investigation is finished.
• antisugar 10y ago
  Basic good looking comfortable outdoor/indoor clothing from thrift stores suitable for job interviews.
• Mz 10y ago
  If he is in the LA area, he is not far from San Diego. You can get there by bus, inexpensively, by taking local (commuter) buses instead of the Greyhound. I spent over 3 years homeless down there. Here is my blog about resources in San Diego county: http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ http://sandiegohomelesssurvivalguide.blogspot.com/ The North County is cheaper and has more open land for stealthily camping. I also do freelance writing and one of my newest blogs covers that. It is linked from that blog specifically, but here is the direct link: http://writepay.blogspot.com/ http://writepay.blogspot.com/ That doesn't mean that what worked for me in specific will work for him in specific, but it is a place to start. If he is a veteran, he may also be entitled to free medical care and access to other military services, though I don't know how his conviction impacts that. I believe felons cannot get food stamps, so there may be a lot of things he cannot access until after things are completely cleared up legally. In the mean time, he can go to soup kitchens and the like for a meal. My homeless blog takes the position that an individual's agency is incredibly important. A lot of charity is done in a really harmful manner. I am not the only person to have that idea. I recently tripped across a book titled "Toxic Charity." So I try like hell to blog about what a person can access without having to sell their soul, lose their dignity, give up their agency and so on. That limits what is available, but I think it preserves things that really matter. Best of luck.
  • smilingtom 10y ago
    It gives me a weird feeling that you're trying to profit and become rich off of homelessness. But, this is HN so... I guess its to be expected.
    • Mz 10y ago
      I started the blog solely to help keep track of information for myself. I abandoned it for several months when I first left downtown San Diego and went to the north county. I even posted a "Goodbye" post. Then, weirdly, even without updates or any promotion whatsoever, it was getting organic traffic. I discovered this because of the occasional few cents here and there showing up on my Adsense account from the site. Since the major city and the county have the same name and I was still in the county, I decided to make it a countywide resource to the best of my ability. It is shockingly hard for a homeless person to find the information they need online. I have had a college class on how to do online search and sometimes have difficulty finding things online so I can get an address and phone number even when I know for a fact they exist. Most websites for homeless service providers are not intended to be client facing. They are intended to impress potential donors. They typically do a poor job of telling needy individuals what they need to know. So, there is demand for the info. I assure you, I am not getting rich off of it. One of my Achilles heels is that I like being helpful. So, although this is, sadly, one of the most successful projects I have ever had in terms of traffic and being taken seriously as a valuable resource and making a difference in the world, it has put damn little money in my pocket. Further, I find it galling that a homeless individual is being criticized for trying to monetize their expertise in the topic. Most of the time, I get this shitty attitude that admitting to being homeless online amounts to me trying to panhandle people. So, in other words, I am homeless, I am not allowed to merit an earned income. I am only allowed to hope for charity and ingratiate myself for crumbs. No matter how I get my money, it is inherently immoral. And people wonder why my financial problems are proving to be so stubborn, as well as why I have such strong feelings that the wrongly convicted individual we are discussing should be allowed to pursue an income that doesn't involve making a spectacle of his misfortune. But, this is HN so...I guess it's to be expected. (And I say "sadly" it is one of my most successful projects in part because homelessness is on the rise nationwide. The general rise in homelessness is part of why there is demand for the info. In my case, "getting rich" would mean what? Getting off the street? How dare I aspire to such self indulgence and selfishness when there are poorer homeless people than I.)
• deleted 10y ago
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• loteck 10y ago
  From the sounds of it the man is former military and has been mistreated by the justice system. I presume his "record" will soon be clean. We should find this man a job inside the criminal justice system. Would he consider working in a police department?
  • jontas 10y ago
    From the various articles, he was in the process of becoming a US Marshal when these events unfolded.
• throwaway_xx9 10y ago
  My standard advice to young people without a career and the unemployed is this: consider either a job at a small printing company, or be a craigslist "broker" using their advanced search features. The first will get you into a high-tech career over time, and the second will be interesting to those who want to be self-employed.
• VaedaStrike 10y ago
  If you don't know what church the Mormon Church will help whomever. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2016/06/24/mormon-welfare-program/31091/ http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2016/06/24/mormon-...
• zaidf 10y ago
  You succeeded in getting a lawyer to take on this case(okay, he was your father, but still.) Now try doing the same with getting a top notch PR person with experience getting television exposure. 1) Reach out to top PR consultants 2) Explain this story to them in a paragraph 3) Tell them you need their help in helping get his story out 4) Big part of getting his story out would involve pushing his gofundme page.
  • Mz 10y ago
    I hope you do not take this suggestion too seriously. He didn't want to be convicted and he may not want the entire rest of his life to be dependent upon him telling his story and spilling his guts in public to pay the bills. It is one thing if he WANTS to tell his story. But maybe he just wants his damn life back. In which case, this could be just a way to add insult to injury. I would try to give him options for getting his needs met that did not require him to make a spectacle of himself to eat. If he wants to be a crusader or if he finds it therapeutic to talk about it publicly for the rest of his life, that's fine. But maybe he just wants his life back and THAT'S IT. In which case, trying to go this route without asking him how he feels about it or offering him other alternatives is not great.
    • bayesian_horse 10y ago
      Depends. If he has a family who is now estranged, or trouble getting a job, a PR campaign may be beneficial. It's one thing to get acquitted in court, another thing to get others to believe you are innocent.
      • Mz 10y ago
        I don't think you know what you are talking about. If no one wants to hire a felon to do some kind of entry level job, how about a felon being followed around by the paparazzi (or otherwise very much in the public eye)? Does that sound better to an employer? I seriously doubt it.
        • zaidf 10y ago
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• throwawaylalala 10y ago
  Start a Go fund me campaign.
• bcks 10y ago
  Since you're in Los Angeles, you might try reaching out to Homeboy Industries: http://www.homeboyindustries.org/ http://www.homeboyindustries.org/ They specialize in helping get folks back on their feet with job training. They have a bakery program, a line of salsa, solar panel installation training, etc. They hire ex-gang and previously incarcerated men and women. Disclosure: I have enjoyed the salsa.
  • pg_is_a_butt 10y ago
    uh... homeboy industries is for homeboys... admitted gang members (guilty men)
  • rcarrigan87 10y ago
    Yes, I love their chips and salsa. Truly a feel good product.
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    I'm a big fan of Homeboy Industries, so I appreciate the suggestion. But I don't think it's fair to put Ray into a program for ex-gang members. Ray is a clean-cut, straight-arrow kind of guy, so it's been very hard for him to spend the last 11 years of his life surrounded by actual criminals. He really wants to become just another person — not an ex-con.
    • bcks 10y ago
      As you can see from the website, it's not just for ex-gang members but also for previously incarcerated men and women looking for job training and a leg up. Perhaps Ray could decide for himself once your GoFundMe funds run out.
    • peteforde 10y ago
      Look, you've really gone above and beyond here. I think that's awesome. But it's a bit of a drag to see you write off "ex-gang members" the way that you did. These are human beings that deserve your respect. If someone does their time and holds down a job, what's not to admire? Your man was a soldier and he survived 11 years in prison as an innocent man. I suspect that he'd really enjoy meeting the folks at Homeboy even if he didn't end up working there.
• a3n 10y ago
  These people have gotten people out of prison, I'm guessing that they've run across your issue and probably have ideas or places to refer: https://www.themarshallproject.org/about https://www.themarshallproject.org/about
• akeck 10y ago
  In addition to what others have covered, connect him with a pro bono counselor to help him smooth out the inevitable ups and downs as his new life unfolds, and also to help coordinate other medical care. Also, help him get signed up for base health insurance under Obamacare. Finally, find him a pro bono accountant, if you can, to help him discover and correct any tax issues that may have come up while he was in prison. It would suck for him to go from freedom right back into the court system due to some easily corrected tax issue.
• mangeletti 10y ago
  Clint (or @dang if it's too late for Clint to edit the OP): Can you please update the OP to include this: http://GoFundMe.com/RayJennings http://GoFundMe.com/RayJennings Put it on its own line like that, near the top. You have many up-votes (probably thousands of readers), but only a few donations. This might be because the URL is easy to miss. A lot of people skim large posts.
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    This was a very good suggestion! :)
• danso 10y ago
  Maybe premature to think about this, but once the full story can be told, this seems like the perfect candidate for Serial Season 3...I'm really fascinated to know what jurors, detectives, and prosecutors were thinking. (Coincidentally, the accused murderer who was the focus of Serial's first season, has just been granted a new trial, according to an announcement just 5 minutes ago http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/us/serial-adnan-syed-new-trial.html http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/us/serial-adnan-syed-new-t...)
• kbagby 10y ago
  Jon Eldan, a former corporate attorney who works with exonerees, runs a project called After Innocence that may be able to help/provide some guidance with respect to healthcare, pro bono legal representation, and social services: http://www.after-innocence.org/ http://www.after-innocence.org/
• ElijahLynn 10y ago
  I was thinking of starting a website a while ago and even bought the domain, then released it, called www.helpahomelessperson.com. The goal behind it is/was to just list a homeless person and their needs, a person who is more well off would have to post their listing most likely and they would take pictures, video interviews and tell their story for them. Then you would have people that wanted to help (visitors) and would browse around the site and find a story of someone who struck a chord with them and they could donate anonymously or publicly in terms of anything they wanted. The key to the site is for someone to be an amabassador for the homeless person and really get that persons story out there and up on the site. The 'internet' would do the rest. Also caution would need to be taken to not force someone to accept a person's donation, because some people might expect something in return or just be bad news, like a company who just wants publicity. Anyways, the idea is still valid, I just haven't had the time to pursue it yet. This happens all the time I am sure. Would be a great Show HN.
• eggestad 10y ago
  First of all you should take pride in what you have done already. You've gone way beyond what most of your fellow country men will ever do. While I understand, you're doing the wrong thing by focusing on this single individual. Since this guy is someone you have gotten to know, you have an emotional tie that is making you blind to the cold hard truth. This happens to someone everyday. - Parents have a falling out with their adolescent children and kick them out - Runaway kids run out of money, and by running out I mean: zero zilch nada - Addicts just run out of money as well as in zero zilch nada - Explosive break up of couple where one gets locked out - Eviction by landlords or as a result of bankruptcy etc etc etc Most have friend or family to help out, and you'll never heard about them. Those who don't are the one you see sleeping on the streets. Thats assuming that you're not one of those that just stay between our office, the mall, and the safe gated community in the suburbs where the hobos are nicly or of sight out of mind. This is what most people do... You can do one of two things. a) Take the position that's you've helped one guy out of jail. If every body helped one person, everybody in need would be out of homelessness in a forth night. Quite frankly, your guy is just so much better of just living on the street than in jail, so if you take this position you've done your part for king and country. I will not fault you for taking this position. b) Start working on something, anything, that goes towards a solution that take care of everybody. I'm a bit astonished that you can't go to the court and argue that as there is no way he is not going to get some kind of compensation, the state can just as well right now front up something like $1000 - $10000 to help him get reestablished. If there is some crap about there is case law not too, then this is call to start working on abolishing the whole concept of common law and switch to a civil law system. (I know this means getting the legislative to replace the current body of case law with some more sensible civil code. A task for which the word "hard" falls short.) I just take the position we need to work on the whole problem , and that doing this by individual you're effectively just doing a band aid. Remember the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?" You make actually be making it worse by doing it by individuals as it may hide the true scope and scale of the problem.
  • ElijahLynn 10y ago
    Yeah, if our system puts innocent people away they should reimburse them for that severe fuck up. Maybe focus on changing that law, for the big picture.
• deleted 10y ago
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• poof131 10y ago
  One place to look is resources for veterans. California has some great ones.[1] See about filing for any disabilities that may be related to time in service and if there is any way to get treatment and help through the VA. Also, look for other non-profit veteran resources beyond just the state and federal. [1]https://www.calvet.ca.gov/VetServices/Documents/Veteran_%20Resource_%20Book_2016.pdf https://www.calvet.ca.gov/VetServices/Documents/Veteran_%20R...
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• Bromskloss 10y ago
  I wish this question could be directed at the people who put him in prison.
• deleted 10y ago
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• developer2 10y ago
  I know this is off topic to the direct question at hand but his case, assuming the talking points found on this page I found[1] are true, is scary. No evidence whatsoever, including fingernail DNA that excluded him? What the actual fuck. >> Mr. Jennings voluntarily submitted to hours of police interviews and interrogations and a polygraph test without objection or legal representation. >> The evidence presented against Jennings at trial... statements and snippets of statements taken from the hours of police interrogation of Jennings which prosecutors said pointed to his guilt It bears reminding, voluntarily speaking to police is NEVER, EVER... EVER!!! the right thing to do. You try to help, but all it does is set you up as a scapegoat. I'll do some more searching to find the answer, but all I can think of now is what kind of judge or jury could have possibly convicted this... unless he accepted a plea. >> prosecutors called forensic behavioral consultant, Mark Safarik, who testified that it was his opinion that the crime was a sexually motivated encounter which went bad; this, based on the fact that when found, O’Keefe’s tube top was partially pulled down. A "partially pulled down" tube top means sexual assault?! It couldn't be that the attacker simply was grabbing at the victim? >> because a security guard was on duty, it was highly unlikely that any other offender would commit such a crime How does one know whether a particular area is patrolled by security? Does this forensic moron, and the judge listening to this testimony, really think this is relevant? These kinds of horror stories come up again, and again, and again in the US. Just another reason I haven't crossed the border to that country in over a decade. [1] http://justiceforray.webs.com/ http://justiceforray.webs.com/
  • bbcbasic 10y ago
    Can a plea conviction be appealed / overturned? I admit my law knowledge is from watching Law & Order. :-). But "Lawyer-up" is the take home from that show (and by that token kids - ask for a lawyer not your mum or dad. you don't need a cuddle you need legal help)
    • niccaluim 10y ago
      Yes, in California a judge can allow a plea to be withdrawn if it "serves the interests of justice." This is the same mechanism used to expunge someone's record after, e.g., completing probation. They are required to set aside guilty pleas if they learn that the party isn't guilty—even if the defendant doesn't ask them to.
• josephmosby 10y ago
  You may want to reach out to the Medill Justice Project at Northwestern University (http://www.medilljusticeproject.org/ http://www.medilljusticeproject.org/). What you and your dad did is what they do all the time, so they may have some resources that can help out.
• soyiuz 10y ago
  Reach out to faculty at UCLA (and other unis/colleges in the area) who work on issues of incarceration. See for example the list of attendees/organizers at this conference: https://law.ucla.edu/centers/social-policy/critical-race-studies/events/2014/2016/9/23/2016-Prisoners-Advocates-Conference/ https://law.ucla.edu/centers/social-policy/critical-race-stu.... They often have slush funds to hire research assistants, guest speakers, etc.
• rdl 10y ago
  I assume you will be going into criminal defense law once you pass the bar? Seems like it would be a waste for you to do anything else.
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    Actually no. I hope this will be the only criminal case I'm ever involved in. I'm about to spend a year as a Visiting Researcher at the Moscow Institute of International Relations, where I'll be writing my dissertation on nuclear game theory and international law.
• jimmc 10y ago
  I own a small business in OC (miltonsecurity) and I have a Vet program where I hire them for up to 6 months, pay for training courses (CCNA online at the office) and rotate them around to different groups (sales, support, engineering) If they get their CCNA we then advance them. I would be willing to do this for him (its not a lot of money to start, but its something, and he can get some training while he waits for the DA) jim
• mcooley 10y ago
  Before I moved away recently, I had dinner pretty regularly with the guys at Dismas House Nashville (dismas.org), which provides transitional housing for former offenders. They do a great job helping people get back on their feet with housing, jobs, etc. I don't know if they can help directly, but if Ray has roots in North Carolina perhaps the staff there (I've worked with Davey and Scott) know people in the southeast region who could help.
• femto 10y ago
  Talk to the St Vincent de Paul society [1]. It's part of the Catholic Church, but they are there to serve everyone, regardless of religious beliefs, and won't pass judgement or bang on about their own religious beliefs. Helping people in Ray's situation is what they do every day, with material assistance, counseling or any other need. Even if Ray doesn't want direct assistance, he may get some useful advice by chatting to them. No need to walk into a church. Just walk into any of their shops and ask to talk to someone, or Ray can call them and they will discretely come to him. [1] https://www.svdpusa.org/Assistance-Services https://www.svdpusa.org/Assistance-Services
• stevewillows 10y ago
  This is fantastic! It's a shame to lose eleven years of your life, but it's inspiring that a citizen was willing to put in the effort to clear his name. Outside of the immediate help, it'd be great for Dateline to do a follow up story documenting your efforts.
• sixdimensional 10y ago
  Apologies if you already thought of the following: Post it on Reddit and also see if CNN will pick up your story. I have seen CNN post stories involving GoFundMe campaigns related to good/human interest stories in the past and those campaigns got a good boost. Plus, the folks on Reddit also always love to support a good story. If Mr. Jennings does decide to open up in the future, maybe even try to get an "IAmA wrongly convicted man" story published where Reddit can interview him? That would be an interesting raising awareness attempt. With regards to Reddit, you might try reaching out to Alexis Ohanian via Twitter or other channels to see if he has any suggestions. P.S. Go Claremont :) Used to live there.
• apo 10y ago
  Very hard to understand how he was convicted in the first place: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYYiAT0g3iQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYYiAT0g3iQ
• jeffmould 10y ago
  For some local reentry links in the area you can use 211 San Diego: http://www.211sandiego.org/Re-entry http://www.211sandiego.org/Re-entry Also, I can put you in contact with an individual in the LA area that may have some contacts as well (he served 25+ years in federal prison and is works to help people who have been released. He is in LA). My email is in my profile.
• LyndsySimon 10y ago
  Post in the appropriate "Hometown forum" on AR15.com. As he is a veteran, I'm confident that someone there will be able to help - I've watched the members of that site have come through in a big way innumerable times in the past. http://www.ar15.com/forums/b/8_Hometown.html http://www.ar15.com/forums/b/8_Hometown.html
• gravypod 10y ago
  Man, that's insane. Does anyone have links to articles about the prosecution? I want to see how this was sold to the public so I can look out for "warning signs" that show up in other cases.
• pthreads 10y ago
  How about a Kickstarter campaign to raise money for a self-published book? You two can be co-authors that way people get to read his experiences as well as your investigation. It is an election year. Perhaps you could introduce him to Clinton's campaign. They could hire him to do campaign related work (so he has a paycheck) while she can use his story to make a case for reforms in the legal system.
  • remarkEon 10y ago
    I would definitely buy this book, and (Army vet here) a lot of my former platoon members probably would too. One of my former squad leaders is a cop now, and another platoon member is at the police academy. Anecdotally I can say that, since a lot of vets end up in the LE community, interest in this story would be there.
• jamie_ 10y ago
  [Off topic] I am surprised that the DA reopened the case, particularly with an actual jury verdict under their belt. What incentive do you think the DA had to reopen the case? Were they just afraid to lose on appeal? Speaking of appeal, how far up in the court system did the appeal go? And was the original prosecutor still at the DA's office?
  • michaelhoffman 10y ago
    District attorneys are supposed to work for justice, not to win cases. If there is compelling evidence that a guilty verdict is incorrect, then re-opening the case is the right thing to do.
• jxramos 10y ago
  I read this post earlier and then just read this City Journal article where the founder of the company America Works describes his history with the war on poverty and welfare to work programs. The focus is to get people entry level jobs and he apparently has a good track record of doing it. Good luck! http://www.city-journal.org/html/what-i-learned-poverty-war-13513.html http://www.city-journal.org/html/what-i-learned-poverty-war-...
• bradnickel 10y ago
  I tried to contribute and I get this message: Campaign Not Ready There's an issue with this Campaign Organizer's account. Our team has contacted them with the solution! Please ask them to sign in to GoFundMe and check their account
• pmarreck 10y ago
  > A year ago, I saw a Dateline NBC episode about an Iraq-war vet, Sgt. Ray Jennings, who allegedly killed an 18-year-old girl in a parking lot. The evidence didn't persuade me, so my dad and I started our own investigation. You're amazing! I donate to The Innocence Project, because I think putting innocent people into jail is just about the worst thing you can do to someone short of rape/kill them.
  • limeyx 10y ago
    Indeed, and then when you look a little deeper and realize that the goals of the "Justice" system are essentially to "prosecute and convict" as many people as possible and the people who prosecute are almost 100% protected from anything bad they do as long as they are chasing those goals And then realize that even if it becomes obvious that someone is (or most likely is) innocent or has been pushed into a plea deal to avoid an even longer sentence for something they didn't do You just want to puke Somehow the ideals of justice got thrown out somewhere here in the US
• duncan_bayne 10y ago
  "The 12 jurors convicted Ray, then went to a candlelight vigil with the victim's parents." Words fail me.
• 13of40 10y ago
  What did he study in prison?
• fsloth 10y ago
  I'm amazed both at the injustice of this ruling and at the nobility and skillfullness of you actions which rescued Mr. Jennings from decades of imprisonment. Well done sirs! Sadly I can't help with you original question.
• drawnalong 10y ago
  I'm an Afghan combat veteran in Los Angeles who has recent first hand knowledge of how to navigate the homeless-to-housing pipeline through the West LA VA, along with a great resource list of other things: transitional housing, transport, getting into the VA system, psychiatric care, benefits claims, VSOs (veteran service organizations) and so on. Also, if Ray wants to speak to a good counselor, a Vietnam combat vet and outstanding man, I can't speak any more highly than my own counselor. I credit with him with me still being around. Happy to assist in any way whatsoever. My email is username at gmail.
• moptar 10y ago
  I don't understand why there's such unanimous words of support for someone who directly contributed to the half million deaths in the Iraq war. I know it's unrelated to his case, but perhaps his prison sentence and current predicament can be seen as karmic retribution. I know that's not how justice works, but I don't think we'd see such enthusiastic support for a serial killer who had trouble supporting himself after getting released.
  • brbsix 10y ago
    The way society is presently arranged, military personnel are absolved of (a great deal of) their moral agency. They have surrendered it to a higher authority, to the state. You can see it experientially in the Milgram experiment. It's incredible more people don't find this troubling, it has me at a loss for words.
    • moptar 10y ago
      It seems to be that way. Weren't the Nuremberg trials supposed to have established the idea the soldiers, or at least officers passing orders along can be guilty even if they're following orders? I suppose those were for more clear cut war crimes and the Iraq soldiers were mostly quite removed from the actual killing they triggered.
  • auganov 10y ago
    I don't think most people mind killing that much. It's only murder that makes [most of] us uncomfortable. And given that no society can afford great compensation for every soldier, extreme reverence is all we've got. And in regards to other states it's pretty much a Prisoner's Dilemma.
  • ClintEhrlich 10y ago
    Maybe you will experience some "karmic retribution" for rationalizing an innocent man's wrongful imprisonment and equating Ray with a "serial killer." Ray enlisted in the Army National Guard in the 90s when he was 17. Do you think that was morally reprehensible? If not, when did he lose your respect and sympathy? He followed orders to deploy to Iraq once the United States had already invaded the country and deposed its government. The missions he carried out were intended to find bombmakers who were indiscriminately slaughtering civilians and soldiers with IEDs. He never took the life of a single Iraqi. His main priority was ensuring that the young men under his command came back alive to their families in the United States. Was that not a task that justified his presence and his best efforts? Individual soldiers are not in a position to judge the merits of foreign military interventions. They do not have access to the intelligence that political leaders rely on in order to make those decisions. A military can only function when soldiers fulfill their responsibility to carry out all lawful orders. The responsibility for holding our political leaders accountable for improper military interventions falls on the PEOPLE of the United States, not the soldiers who have taken an oath to serve their commander in chief. Equating an average American soldier serving in Iraq with a Nazi war criminal is not only disgusting but counterproductive. It erases the moral culpability of the latter for willfully carrying out genocide. The Iraq war was a horrifying mistake. But our leaders' misjudgment doesn't entitle you to slander the names of the men and women who risked (and gave) their lives in that conflict.
• moptar 10y ago
  It's also responsible for the destruction of Iraq and the emergence of ISIS. Are you really proud that your personal success rides on the back of so many innocent lives being lost?
  • tempestn 10y ago
    Did he say he was? He said the army gave him valuable training and experience, not that he agrees with everything the country's leadership has chosen to do with it.
    • moptar 10y ago
      Not everything and not things his leaders did. Just going to Iraq, which he said he personally did.
    • fapjacks 10y ago
      Don't feed the troll!
      • deleted 10y ago
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  • dang 10y ago
    Personal attacks are not allowed on Hacker News. Between this and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12014468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12014468, you've crossed the line badly, twice in one thread, so we've banned this account. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12013800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12013800 and marked it off-topic.
• ap46 10y ago
  Go to reddit, there'll be people willing to help. Start with an AmA
• Rexxar 10y ago
  I'm maybe a little optimistic but why not ask a big and rich university to give him a free education and shelter for 3/4 years ? It could be good for him and for the university image (It would be a better usage of university money than recruiting people bases on their athletics skills IMHO).
• amelius 10y ago
  > The most obvious answer is litigation. And in a year or two, Ray will probably receive some compensation from the State. Unfortunately, there's no way to access those funds in time to cover his immediate expenses. Make sure this money gets managed properly. You don't want him to spend this money in just a few months.
• maesho 10y ago
  Please help Ross Ulbrich https://freeross.org/ https://freeross.org/ http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/2016/03/retired-federal-judge-law-enforcement-and-leading-drug-reform-organization-ask-court-re http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/2016/03/retired-federal-judge...