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In Germany you, as the owner of a internet access point, are liable for whatever some person does with this line. It is called 'Störerhaftung'. That way it doe
by sdoering 10y ago
In Germany you, as the owner of a internet access point, are liable for whatever some person does with this line.
It is called 'Störerhaftung'. That way it doesn't matter who exactly did illegal you download stuff. You are liable non the less.
Funny thing though - the moment you are an incorporated ISP you do not fall under this concept anymore.
That is by the way the reason free WiFi isn't that available in Germany.
- kasparsklavins 10y agoAre german ISPs required to "pass the blame forward"? If not, whats stopping everyone registering themselves as an ISP?
- cocotino 10y agoThe price and the requirements, I guess?
- luckystarr 10y agoIts a hassle. Even larger non-profit organizations (Freifunk for example) which provide free open wifi route their traffic via VPN to a country without "Störerhaftung" (Sweden) to eliminate the risk of getting adhortatory letters.
- AnthonyMouse 10y agoMaybe everyone there should start doing that? Even an individual could provide free wifi but route it through a foreign VPN service. For that matter, with a law that stupid I'm surprised the major ISPs there aren't making hay by offering a VPN service with your internet account and integrating it into their broadband routers.
- lima 10y agoActually, Freifunk Rheinland did register as an ISP and built a sizeable backbone network. They provide internet access to many Freifunk communities without any risk of liability.
- sdoering 10y agoDidn't know this. Thanks for this bit of information here.
- kpcyrd 10y agoYou have to implement Vorratsdatenspeicherung which is basically an API to query who had this IP at a given point in time in case of an investigation.
- curiousgal 10y agoI thought they were going to change that, no?
- Sarkie 10y agohttp://www.zeit.de/digital/internet/2016-05/wlan-hotspots-stoererhaftung-abmahnungen-unterlassung http://www.zeit.de/digital/internet/2016-05/wlan-hotspots-st... https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.zeit.de/digital/internet/2016-05/wlan-hotspots-stoererhaftung-abmahnungen-unterlassung&prev=search https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http:...
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- davidiach 10y agoThat's a really stupid law and it's one of the reasons why Germany is so far behind when it comes to building great internet/tech startups.
- rprospero 10y agoI'm just curious: are you arguing from that it's a stupid law from a moral perspective or a pragmatic one? I might disagree with these policies philosophically, but I've never seen evidence that they were anything but ruthlessly efficient at achieving their desired ends.
- dietrichepp 10y agoFrom a pragmatic perspective, if the law has enough unintended and undesired consequences, it has failed.
- lostcolony 10y agoI mean...if your desired end is to prevent free wifi availability nationwide (and the various benefits that provides, access to information and job listings and community and such), regardless of socio-economic strata, and to ensure that any security issue (weak passwords, out of date firmware, a zero day) makes an end user legally culpable, all to help protect a content industry predominantly located outside your nation, then sure, chalk that up as a success?
- hx87 10y ago> to ensure that any security issue (weak passwords, out of date firmware, a zero day) makes an end user legally culpable That might actually be a good idea.
- nostrebored 10y agoYes, let's make non tech savvy people liable for keeping track of zero day exploits. While it might make some people more aware, I think in large part it would just push people off of the internet.
- FollowSteph3 10y agoHow is this different then a phone? Are you liable for the conversations others have on your phone?
- tremon 10y agoIf you permanently have your phone outside your front door, and a passerby uses your phone to commit/coordinate crimes, you may well be liable, yes.
- mattstreet 10y agoSo are the owners of pay phones liable?
- tremon 10y agoNo. They're exploited by common carriers, whose status gives them judicial exemptions.
- collyw 10y agoI am trying to think of a criminal activity that you can conduct over the phone analogous to piracy (but can't come up with one).
- talmand 10y agoIt doesn't have to be analogous to piracy, for example: if I use your phone to discuss a bank robbery with my partners in crime, even without your knowledge, you could be charged with conspiracy. Depending on local laws of course.
- ElCapitanMarkla 10y agoSame deal in New Zealand. Except the law to "3 strikes" so if you receive 3 infringement notices within a 9 month window you can expect to be "prosecuted".
- cylinder 10y agoSo a hotel offering WiFi to guests is liable for everything that guest does? Ridiculous.
- kalleboo 10y agoHotels get around this by hiring ISPs to run the WiFi. Which means it's always overpriced and slow as crap.
- kleim 10y agoSame here in France, the owner of the Wifi AP is liable in case of illegal downloads. However a large majority of ISP implemented a separate free Wifi that is independent of your connection. You have access to all the free wifi AP from this ISP if you don't opt-out.