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A few days ago I was visiting family, and my Mom was online Skyping relatives on her Windows 7 PC. She comes running into the other room and says her PC just re

A few days ago I was visiting family, and my Mom was online Skyping relatives on her Windows 7 PC. She comes running into the other room and says her PC just restarted while she was talking, and now it says something about configuring Windows 10, even though she was always careful to opt-out of the constant requests to upgrade. So, we had to wait for it to install the OS, then decline the terms of service, then wait for it to roll-back to the previous OS. I'm using Windows 10 and enjoy it, but I'm still tempted to migrate to another OS just because of these practices.

gbrown 10y ago
I wonder if stories like this are why Skype is so completely broken on Linux. If it worked, far more people would be comfortable switching.
- dangerlibrary 10y ago
  I'm friends with a dev I respect that recently took a job on the Skype team. Skype is completely broken everywhere, because the code is a nightmare and people are scared to make changes - any change will break something. Linux is probably just low priority on a very long list of things that are terrible/broken about Skype.
  - realusername 10y ago
    I was about to say the same thing, is there any platform Skype is actually reliable ? I had problems with Linux, Windows and Android.
- morninj 10y ago
  Hmm--I've had no trouble with Skype on Ubuntu 14.04 or 16.04. I only use it every few weeks, though.
Spooky23 10y ago
You're missing the point. Your computer is there to update itself. Your use is purely secondary. ;)
- imglorp 10y ago
  You are now the product. Your use of the computer is enticement to provide more actionable data.
themartorana 10y ago
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm with you 100% on having the explicit opportunity to opt out of updates like this. That said, a large swath of Windows users are not nearly as technically literate as you and your mother are, and automatically helping people forward (if for nothing else, security fixes and ongoing support) is a Good Thing in my book (so long as it's free, and it is). There is no doubt there are cogent arguments against it. But when I think of the operating systems a lot of botnet computers are running on, I have a hard time not supporting automatic OS upgrades for non-power users.
- SixSigma 10y ago
  I wouldn't be upset if Windows 10 hadn't turned into a telemetry botnet for Microsoft. Edit: I see in other posts accusations of paranoia. But how can I not be paranoid when I cannot determine what is being transmitted.
  - FussyZeus 10y ago
    ^ This. It's not THAT there is telemetry and "phoning home," it's the fact that Microsoft flat out REFUSES to be up front about what it's sending home, how they're anonymizing it, and why these things can't be 100% disabled. If you say nothing then your users will (and should) assume the worst.
    - 794CD01 10y ago
      Where have they refused to be up front about any of this? As far as I'm aware, they have detailed all of those things except how exactly they anonymize the data, which I haven't seen anyone specifically ask them about.
      - FussyZeus 10y ago
        There's no way to turn it off. It says it's turned off, and it's still sending shit to Redmond. That's unacceptable and deceptive. I do not use software that lies to me, period, paragraph.
ximeng 10y ago
Bought Surface Pro a while back. Happy. Charger broke one week after warranty expiry. Keyboard broke a little later. So only way to reboot is hard reset which takes about 15 seconds of holding power button and volume up button, twice, and doesn't always work first time. Pretty unhappy but just about workable. With Windows 10 latest version I was unable to disable a particular update which fails every time. So Windows will reboot regularly, including waking from sleep to do so, and fail to install, leading to 30 seconds plus reboot time at best to get it to wake up. For a tablet. Since bought a new laptop and installed Linux on it as my main operating system for the first time (dual booting) and am pretty happy so far. Updates no longer reboot the computer for the most part. Missing a few features (especially hibernate), but most things work as well or better than Windows so far.
turnip1979 10y ago
Something very similar happened to me + my old father (not tech savy). My parents have carefully written down steps on how to accomplish various functions (seems very unnatural to me but that is the only way they get things done on PCs). I went to his place yesterday and as part of the usual tech support, he said he couldn't open his email and was confused why. Turns out, his machine had upgraded to Windows 10. What was horrible was that Windows decided to be in tablet-only mode (completely unfamiliar to me since I left Windows after Win7.. the Metro UI sucks when forced on non-tablet users). His printer/scanner all went kaput. It really made the entire day crummy. I say shame on you Microsoft. I've got my father an iPad but it isn't a PC replacement. He refuses MacOs because of the stupid touchpad. It is sad.
- vitd 10y ago
  >He refuses MacOs because of the stupid touchpad. Huh? You can hook a mouse up to any Mac. Also, in what way are Mac touchpads different from Windows touchpads?
  - greenshackle 10y ago
    Scrolling direction? Though I'm sure you can change that in the parameters somewhere.
    - nmc 10y ago
      Of course you can. You can also, I think, reverse trackpad scrolling on Windows. However, I dislike the fact that on MacOs they call the setting "natural scrolling" and that they enable it by default for any trackpad you hook up. Moreover, since the "Magic Mouse" is basically a mouse with a trackpad for a scrolling wheeel, they also enable reverse scrolling by default for any mouse.
      - DiabloD3 10y ago
        It's unnatural for anyone that grew up with mice and trackpads. It's 100% natural for phones. Most people don't realize "natural scrolling" on OSX is phone scrolling. Makes sense when you realize they ripped the magic trackpad code out of iOS's touch screen event handler.
dingo_bat 10y ago
>she was always careful to opt-out of the constant requests to upgrade. Why? Why would you NOT want to upgrade? I get that restarting in the middle of a skype call is shitty and ridiculous, but it has been a year now.
- mtreis86 10y ago
  Because the upgrades add technical debt without removing many of the problems of the previous systems. My non-tech relatives all agree that windows 2000, vista, and 7 are all the same. Why make them move to something else the same? Security - what is that, when this was working fine before? ME was a disaster we would all like to forget - where do you expect their confidence to come from, in win10, when the past hasn't inspired any? Edit: >Why would you not want to upgrade? Because they have been burned before.
varjag 10y ago
Windows is just not ready for the desktop.
redthrowaway 10y ago
It happened to a DJ at a club I was at about a month ago. Middle of his set, his Surface Pro decides it's a great time to restart and "upgrade" to Windows 10. Somebody at Microsoft seriously needs to be fired for that "feature".
Cerium 10y ago
My parents media center pc did a forced upgrade despite the onboard graphics being unsupported. The result was an unusable output. After a few hours attempting to get the drivers to work until downgraded. Windows is still asking me to upgrade!

gbrown 10y ago

I wonder if stories like this are why Skype is so completely broken on Linux. If it worked, far more people would be comfortable switching.

dangerlibrary 10y ago
I'm friends with a dev I respect that recently took a job on the Skype team. Skype is completely broken everywhere, because the code is a nightmare and people are scared to make changes - any change will break something. Linux is probably just low priority on a very long list of things that are terrible/broken about Skype.
- realusername 10y ago
  I was about to say the same thing, is there any platform Skype is actually reliable ? I had problems with Linux, Windows and Android.
morninj 10y ago
Hmm--I've had no trouble with Skype on Ubuntu 14.04 or 16.04. I only use it every few weeks, though.

Spooky23 10y ago

You're missing the point. Your computer is there to update itself. Your use is purely secondary. ;)

imglorp 10y ago
You are now the product. Your use of the computer is enticement to provide more actionable data.

themartorana 10y ago

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm with you 100% on having the explicit opportunity to opt out of updates like this. That said, a large swath of Windows users are not nearly as technically literate as you and your mother are, and automatically helping people forward (if for nothing else, security fixes and ongoing support) is a Good Thing in my book (so long as it's free, and it is). There is no doubt there are cogent arguments against it. But when I think of the operating systems a lot of botnet computers are running on, I have a hard time not supporting automatic OS upgrades for non-power users.

SixSigma 10y ago
I wouldn't be upset if Windows 10 hadn't turned into a telemetry botnet for Microsoft. Edit: I see in other posts accusations of paranoia. But how can I not be paranoid when I cannot determine what is being transmitted.
- FussyZeus 10y ago
  ^ This. It's not THAT there is telemetry and "phoning home," it's the fact that Microsoft flat out REFUSES to be up front about what it's sending home, how they're anonymizing it, and why these things can't be 100% disabled. If you say nothing then your users will (and should) assume the worst.
  - 794CD01 10y ago
    Where have they refused to be up front about any of this? As far as I'm aware, they have detailed all of those things except how exactly they anonymize the data, which I haven't seen anyone specifically ask them about.
    - FussyZeus 10y ago
      There's no way to turn it off. It says it's turned off, and it's still sending shit to Redmond. That's unacceptable and deceptive. I do not use software that lies to me, period, paragraph.

ximeng 10y ago

Bought Surface Pro a while back. Happy. Charger broke one week after warranty expiry. Keyboard broke a little later. So only way to reboot is hard reset which takes about 15 seconds of holding power button and volume up button, twice, and doesn't always work first time. Pretty unhappy but just about workable. With Windows 10 latest version I was unable to disable a particular update which fails every time. So Windows will reboot regularly, including waking from sleep to do so, and fail to install, leading to 30 seconds plus reboot time at best to get it to wake up. For a tablet. Since bought a new laptop and installed Linux on it as my main operating system for the first time (dual booting) and am pretty happy so far. Updates no longer reboot the computer for the most part. Missing a few features (especially hibernate), but most things work as well or better than Windows so far.

turnip1979 10y ago

Something very similar happened to me + my old father (not tech savy). My parents have carefully written down steps on how to accomplish various functions (seems very unnatural to me but that is the only way they get things done on PCs). I went to his place yesterday and as part of the usual tech support, he said he couldn't open his email and was confused why. Turns out, his machine had upgraded to Windows 10. What was horrible was that Windows decided to be in tablet-only mode (completely unfamiliar to me since I left Windows after Win7.. the Metro UI sucks when forced on non-tablet users). His printer/scanner all went kaput. It really made the entire day crummy. I say shame on you Microsoft. I've got my father an iPad but it isn't a PC replacement. He refuses MacOs because of the stupid touchpad. It is sad.

vitd 10y ago
>He refuses MacOs because of the stupid touchpad. Huh? You can hook a mouse up to any Mac. Also, in what way are Mac touchpads different from Windows touchpads?
- greenshackle 10y ago
  Scrolling direction? Though I'm sure you can change that in the parameters somewhere.
  - nmc 10y ago
    Of course you can. You can also, I think, reverse trackpad scrolling on Windows. However, I dislike the fact that on MacOs they call the setting "natural scrolling" and that they enable it by default for any trackpad you hook up. Moreover, since the "Magic Mouse" is basically a mouse with a trackpad for a scrolling wheeel, they also enable reverse scrolling by default for any mouse.
    - DiabloD3 10y ago
      It's unnatural for anyone that grew up with mice and trackpads. It's 100% natural for phones. Most people don't realize "natural scrolling" on OSX is phone scrolling. Makes sense when you realize they ripped the magic trackpad code out of iOS's touch screen event handler.

dingo_bat 10y ago

>she was always careful to opt-out of the constant requests to upgrade. Why? Why would you NOT want to upgrade? I get that restarting in the middle of a skype call is shitty and ridiculous, but it has been a year now.

mtreis86 10y ago
Because the upgrades add technical debt without removing many of the problems of the previous systems. My non-tech relatives all agree that windows 2000, vista, and 7 are all the same. Why make them move to something else the same? Security - what is that, when this was working fine before? ME was a disaster we would all like to forget - where do you expect their confidence to come from, in win10, when the past hasn't inspired any? Edit: >Why would you not want to upgrade? Because they have been burned before.

varjag 10y ago

Windows is just not ready for the desktop.

redthrowaway 10y ago

It happened to a DJ at a club I was at about a month ago. Middle of his set, his Surface Pro decides it's a great time to restart and "upgrade" to Windows 10. Somebody at Microsoft seriously needs to be fired for that "feature".

Cerium 10y ago

My parents media center pc did a forced upgrade despite the onboard graphics being unsupported. The result was an unusable output. After a few hours attempting to get the drivers to work until downgraded. Windows is still asking me to upgrade!