6 ms·

Natron: Open-source compositing software for Mac, Windows and Linux

256 points by based2 10y ago

throwaway2016a 10y ago
For those of you like me that don't know much about video editing and you're curious what compositing is, here's an article: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/compositing-video.html http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/compositing-video.html
- dominotw 10y ago
  Natron was a mixture of salt and baking soda that egyptians used to extract moisture out of the body during mummification. Perhaps in this context means extracting out relevant parts of the video for superimposition; just a guess.
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  This article is nice, but it's missing discussion of a key component which is painfully obvious in the composited image: you have to match the lighting on your subject with how it would look in the actual scene. You can do this digitally (as part of color grading), but the ideal solution is to do it IRL with light color. Especially if you're shooting with a consumer grade camera and have to live with the severely limited colorspace headroom.
- tomcam 10y ago
  Thanks, because nothing on the homepage made sense to me!
dr_zoidberg 10y ago
I have an older, portable version lying around in my machine and I really liked it (though knowing very little about compositing when I downloaded it). It helped me do some nice animations to explain a few things through video. Now I'm a bit surprised that they require you to register to download any version... I know it's free, but it still feels unnecesary... I just want the file, why do I have to register?
- bks 10y ago
  ....becuse the entire fabric on the internet is based on the exchange of thing of "value". Your email has value, and they'll exchange their hard work (software) for your information (valuable for marketing, and understanding their users)....
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    Not sure why your downvoted, this is absolutely right.
- frik 10y ago
  The register feature doesn't even work. I got the following plain text email: Username: xxx To set your password, visit the following address: The mentioned link was missing :( (weird that an PDF was attached too with the same text, and no link) They could have at least added the binary to the Github release: https://github.com/MrKepzie/Natron/releases/tag/2.0.5 https://github.com/MrKepzie/Natron/releases/tag/2.0.5 The software looks interesting, but I cannot try it even out.
- sytse 10y ago
  Your comment inspired me to discuss the promise that GitLab will never ask for an email in order to download https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/2448/diffs#32131811b3612d3be0b472d7d7fc431e11c64ce0_97_98 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/...
- Joeboy 10y ago
  > they require you to register to download any version The source is on Github and is GPL. If they didn't provide the additional option of registering to download a binary, you probably wouldn't complain.
  - dr_zoidberg 10y ago
    I complain because they used to offer unencumbered binaries, and now they don't. I complaing about the change of policy, not just the new policy.
jscheel 10y ago
Huh, guess I can stop keeping my really old copy of Shake around. Was so bummed when Apple canceled that.
- lcrs 10y ago
  Shake is more complete than Natron still - and some parts of Shake are still world class, the spline-based warping for example is still on par with Nuke and Flame, and the included versions of Keylight and Primatte haven't been hugely improved on since. And Smoothcam is super handy. I have had to take increasingly drastic measures to keep it running on modern Linuxes though, and on OS X it sadly now seems impossible :(
  - bsenftner 10y ago
    I never understood why Apple ruined Shake. I'm friends with Shake's developer too, but he never discusses it. He got paid, is what I figure.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
zaphar 10y ago
This looks superficially like Blenders Node based compositing engine. Some of their demo videos used blender as part of the pipeline. I wonder what a comparison with Blender would look like. Does it offer any value if you are already use Blender? Either way more Open Source competition in this space is a good thing. For a long time Blender was the only Video Editing software out there with any quality.
- LinuxFreedom 10y ago
  This is a compositing package, much different from blender. If you believe that blender is a "quality video editor" please try at least kdenlive to understand what a decent video editor looks like. The video editing feature set in blender is a nice addon for hardcore Blender users but totally inaccessible for anybody else and missing a lot of must-have features. But it is nice, however, to see that they are working on it, maybe in a few years it will be great.
  - zaphar 10y ago
    I have in fact tried kdenlive in the past and found it be (for my needs which are admittedly small) to be subpar compared to Blender. Addtionally, so as far as I know it's only available on Linux while both Blender and Natron appear to be available on multiple platforms which is an important feature to me. I'm not a professional video editor of course and everyone looks at this stuff with different slightly desires. Blender had NLE before kdenlive even existed, if I recall correctly. My comment was in reference to that period of time. It's nice to see competitors like kdenlive and natron have appeared. What must-have features are missing? Last I checked it did basic video editing really well and it's compositing engine is really quite nice. It's not Adobe Premiere but for most use cases I've found it to be the most complete and featureful editor out there that is both multiplatform and Open Source.
    - Joeboy 10y ago
      I'm with you on the Blender VSE vs Kdenlive question fwiw. First tried Kdenlive years ago and couldn't get sound to sync, so gave up. Tried again a few months ago, can't remember what the exact problem was but found it to be wanting compared to Blender. I will admit that Blender has an unusual UI that will deter a lot of people.
protomyth 10y ago
Is there a reason its not signed on the Mac?
- rdsnsca 10y ago
  Probably the $99 / year cost of a software licence to sign it.
a_e_k 10y ago
As I understand it, this is basically an open source clone of The Foundry's Nuke software. Nuke is used widely in the VFX industry -- probably the dominant software in its niche. I'm not knocking the effort it takes to clone its GUI, plugin API (OpenFX [0]), or basic plugins. But I'll also point out as an alternative that The Foundry offers a free non-commercial version of Nuke [1]. [0] http://openfx.sourceforge.net/ http://openfx.sourceforge.net/ [1] https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/non-commercial/ https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/non-commercial/
- LinuxFreedom 10y ago
  The non-commercial version is a crippled trialware. Also you will get bitten very aggressively if you built your project in the first phase in a non-commercial version and some time later manage to get funding and want to import your work into a commercially licensed version - import will not work. Especially this looks like a proactive attempt to harm people - potential customers! - very stupid idea. It is the same as everywhere else - honest users are seriously harmed by licensing policies while thieves are just using the latest torrent release. Nuke is, no question, an industry leader, but an open source competitor will hopefully make the featureset of this kind of software more widely available also for projects with very low budget [while starting]. Meanwhile TheFoundry management should look at Unreal for licensing ideas.
  - taspeotis 10y ago
    > Also you will get bitten very aggressively if you built your project in the first phase in a non-commercial version and some time later manage to get funding and want to import your work into a commercially licensed version - import will not work. Qt has a somewhat similar provision in their licenses [1]. Personally I think it's acceptable, but walking a fine line. It's an attempt to make sure users can't skirt paying for a commercial license if they are, indeed, commercial. I would hope that if you contacted their customer support and politely explain how your project was using the free license in the spirit it was intended to be used, they would allow imports from the free version, say as a once-off when you purchase the licenses. [1] http://www.qt.io/faq/#_Toc453700698 http://www.qt.io/faq/#_Toc453700698
evolve2k 10y ago
Anyone know some really good tutorials to get moving with this? From my brief explorations in the past, I just haven't found graph based compositing to be intuitive. I'm hoping it makes more sense once you understand a few key concepts.
touchofevil 10y ago
I'm a compositor & motion graphics artist. I've never used Natron, but I've done a lot of compositing in After Effects and a little bit of compositing in Nuke (which is the industry standard for photorealistic vfx compositing). Another free compositing option is BlackMagic Fusion [0]. Fusion is a node based compositor, like Natron and Nuke. Fusion has a free version that has a few restrictions and a paid version that is $1,000. I've always been surprised that open source software like Blender and Natron has not really caught on at studios. Nuke licenses cost between $4,000 and $8,000 per seat, plus a maintenance cost of over $1,000 per year per seat. These cost add up very quickly and vfx jobs even at big studios generally end up having a razor thin profit margin of 3-5% [1][2] So it's strange that these vfx studios haven't embraced open source software to cut costs. [0] https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/fusion https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/fusion [1] https://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/about/ https://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/about/ [2] http://www.ew.com/article/2013/04/05/peter-jackson-hollywood-fx-crisis http://www.ew.com/article/2013/04/05/peter-jackson-hollywood...
- FatalBaboon 10y ago
  I think it is the accumulation of people not wanting to learn something new (fear of the unknown), managers not knowing about it (misaligned agendas) and executives wanting the peace of mind of knowing the job will be done (because it has been done the same way many times over). Same reasons many things in technology remain prevalent when they're the worst possible tools (allow me to only name PHP to avoid a useless war).
  - touchofevil 10y ago
    Yeah, a lot of it comes down to network effects. Studios have to ramp up staff quickly, so they need to be able to find freelancers that already know the software they are using. So the studios have to use the "industry standard" software, unless they want to train artists, which wouldn't make sense since they are constantly ramping up and down their freelancer workforce. The Foundry (makers of Nuke) are surely making a tidy sum off of this situation.
- berkut 10y ago
cyphar 10y ago
+1 for GPLv2 or later. It's nice to see new software have strong copyleft licenses.
neves 10y ago
BTW, I really liked the MOOC Visual Effects for Guerrilla Filmmakers https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/vfx-for-filmmakers https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/vfx-for-filmmakers It uses Hit Film Express, a free version of the commercial product. I was able to learn the basic techniques of VFX and started to use Hit Film to edit my family videos. Win-Win.
erichocean 10y ago
It's worth noting that Natron uses a number of very high-quality open source projects under the hood, including OpenImageIO[0] and OpenColorIO[1]. Many of them (unlike Natron) have a commercial-friendly BSD-like open source license. [0] https://sites.google.com/site/openimageio/home https://sites.google.com/site/openimageio/home [1] http://opencolorio.org/ http://opencolorio.org/

256 points by based2 10y ago

throwaway2016a 10y ago

For those of you like me that don't know much about video editing and you're curious what compositing is, here's an article: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/compositing-video.html http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/compositing-video.html

dominotw 10y ago
Natron was a mixture of salt and baking soda that egyptians used to extract moisture out of the body during mummification. Perhaps in this context means extracting out relevant parts of the video for superimposition; just a guess.
semi-extrinsic 10y ago
This article is nice, but it's missing discussion of a key component which is painfully obvious in the composited image: you have to match the lighting on your subject with how it would look in the actual scene. You can do this digitally (as part of color grading), but the ideal solution is to do it IRL with light color. Especially if you're shooting with a consumer grade camera and have to live with the severely limited colorspace headroom.
tomcam 10y ago
Thanks, because nothing on the homepage made sense to me!

dr_zoidberg 10y ago

I have an older, portable version lying around in my machine and I really liked it (though knowing very little about compositing when I downloaded it). It helped me do some nice animations to explain a few things through video. Now I'm a bit surprised that they require you to register to download any version... I know it's free, but it still feels unnecesary... I just want the file, why do I have to register?

bks 10y ago
....becuse the entire fabric on the internet is based on the exchange of thing of "value". Your email has value, and they'll exchange their hard work (software) for your information (valuable for marketing, and understanding their users)....
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  Not sure why your downvoted, this is absolutely right.
frik 10y ago
The register feature doesn't even work. I got the following plain text email: Username: xxx To set your password, visit the following address: The mentioned link was missing :( (weird that an PDF was attached too with the same text, and no link) They could have at least added the binary to the Github release: https://github.com/MrKepzie/Natron/releases/tag/2.0.5 https://github.com/MrKepzie/Natron/releases/tag/2.0.5 The software looks interesting, but I cannot try it even out.
sytse 10y ago
Your comment inspired me to discuss the promise that GitLab will never ask for an email in order to download https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/2448/diffs#32131811b3612d3be0b472d7d7fc431e11c64ce0_97_98 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/...
Joeboy 10y ago
> they require you to register to download any version The source is on Github and is GPL. If they didn't provide the additional option of registering to download a binary, you probably wouldn't complain.
- dr_zoidberg 10y ago
  I complain because they used to offer unencumbered binaries, and now they don't. I complaing about the change of policy, not just the new policy.

jscheel 10y ago

Huh, guess I can stop keeping my really old copy of Shake around. Was so bummed when Apple canceled that.

lcrs 10y ago
Shake is more complete than Natron still - and some parts of Shake are still world class, the spline-based warping for example is still on par with Nuke and Flame, and the included versions of Keylight and Primatte haven't been hugely improved on since. And Smoothcam is super handy. I have had to take increasingly drastic measures to keep it running on modern Linuxes though, and on OS X it sadly now seems impossible :(
- bsenftner 10y ago
  I never understood why Apple ruined Shake. I'm friends with Shake's developer too, but he never discusses it. He got paid, is what I figure.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

zaphar 10y ago

This looks superficially like Blenders Node based compositing engine. Some of their demo videos used blender as part of the pipeline. I wonder what a comparison with Blender would look like. Does it offer any value if you are already use Blender? Either way more Open Source competition in this space is a good thing. For a long time Blender was the only Video Editing software out there with any quality.

LinuxFreedom 10y ago
This is a compositing package, much different from blender. If you believe that blender is a "quality video editor" please try at least kdenlive to understand what a decent video editor looks like. The video editing feature set in blender is a nice addon for hardcore Blender users but totally inaccessible for anybody else and missing a lot of must-have features. But it is nice, however, to see that they are working on it, maybe in a few years it will be great.
- zaphar 10y ago
  I have in fact tried kdenlive in the past and found it be (for my needs which are admittedly small) to be subpar compared to Blender. Addtionally, so as far as I know it's only available on Linux while both Blender and Natron appear to be available on multiple platforms which is an important feature to me. I'm not a professional video editor of course and everyone looks at this stuff with different slightly desires. Blender had NLE before kdenlive even existed, if I recall correctly. My comment was in reference to that period of time. It's nice to see competitors like kdenlive and natron have appeared. What must-have features are missing? Last I checked it did basic video editing really well and it's compositing engine is really quite nice. It's not Adobe Premiere but for most use cases I've found it to be the most complete and featureful editor out there that is both multiplatform and Open Source.
  - Joeboy 10y ago
    I'm with you on the Blender VSE vs Kdenlive question fwiw. First tried Kdenlive years ago and couldn't get sound to sync, so gave up. Tried again a few months ago, can't remember what the exact problem was but found it to be wanting compared to Blender. I will admit that Blender has an unusual UI that will deter a lot of people.

protomyth 10y ago

Is there a reason its not signed on the Mac?

rdsnsca 10y ago
Probably the $99 / year cost of a software licence to sign it.

a_e_k 10y ago

As I understand it, this is basically an open source clone of The Foundry's Nuke software. Nuke is used widely in the VFX industry -- probably the dominant software in its niche. I'm not knocking the effort it takes to clone its GUI, plugin API (OpenFX [0]), or basic plugins. But I'll also point out as an alternative that The Foundry offers a free non-commercial version of Nuke [1]. [0] http://openfx.sourceforge.net/ http://openfx.sourceforge.net/ [1] https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/non-commercial/ https://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/non-commercial/

LinuxFreedom 10y ago
The non-commercial version is a crippled trialware. Also you will get bitten very aggressively if you built your project in the first phase in a non-commercial version and some time later manage to get funding and want to import your work into a commercially licensed version - import will not work. Especially this looks like a proactive attempt to harm people - potential customers! - very stupid idea. It is the same as everywhere else - honest users are seriously harmed by licensing policies while thieves are just using the latest torrent release. Nuke is, no question, an industry leader, but an open source competitor will hopefully make the featureset of this kind of software more widely available also for projects with very low budget [while starting]. Meanwhile TheFoundry management should look at Unreal for licensing ideas.
- taspeotis 10y ago
  > Also you will get bitten very aggressively if you built your project in the first phase in a non-commercial version and some time later manage to get funding and want to import your work into a commercially licensed version - import will not work. Qt has a somewhat similar provision in their licenses [1]. Personally I think it's acceptable, but walking a fine line. It's an attempt to make sure users can't skirt paying for a commercial license if they are, indeed, commercial. I would hope that if you contacted their customer support and politely explain how your project was using the free license in the spirit it was intended to be used, they would allow imports from the free version, say as a once-off when you purchase the licenses. [1] http://www.qt.io/faq/#_Toc453700698 http://www.qt.io/faq/#_Toc453700698

evolve2k 10y ago

Anyone know some really good tutorials to get moving with this? From my brief explorations in the past, I just haven't found graph based compositing to be intuitive. I'm hoping it makes more sense once you understand a few key concepts.

touchofevil 10y ago

I'm a compositor & motion graphics artist. I've never used Natron, but I've done a lot of compositing in After Effects and a little bit of compositing in Nuke (which is the industry standard for photorealistic vfx compositing). Another free compositing option is BlackMagic Fusion [0]. Fusion is a node based compositor, like Natron and Nuke. Fusion has a free version that has a few restrictions and a paid version that is $1,000. I've always been surprised that open source software like Blender and Natron has not really caught on at studios. Nuke licenses cost between $4,000 and $8,000 per seat, plus a maintenance cost of over $1,000 per year per seat. These cost add up very quickly and vfx jobs even at big studios generally end up having a razor thin profit margin of 3-5% [1][2] So it's strange that these vfx studios haven't embraced open source software to cut costs. [0] https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/fusion https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/fusion [1] https://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/about/ https://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/about/ [2] http://www.ew.com/article/2013/04/05/peter-jackson-hollywood-fx-crisis http://www.ew.com/article/2013/04/05/peter-jackson-hollywood...

FatalBaboon 10y ago
I think it is the accumulation of people not wanting to learn something new (fear of the unknown), managers not knowing about it (misaligned agendas) and executives wanting the peace of mind of knowing the job will be done (because it has been done the same way many times over). Same reasons many things in technology remain prevalent when they're the worst possible tools (allow me to only name PHP to avoid a useless war).
- touchofevil 10y ago
  Yeah, a lot of it comes down to network effects. Studios have to ramp up staff quickly, so they need to be able to find freelancers that already know the software they are using. So the studios have to use the "industry standard" software, unless they want to train artists, which wouldn't make sense since they are constantly ramping up and down their freelancer workforce. The Foundry (makers of Nuke) are surely making a tidy sum off of this situation.
berkut 10y ago

cyphar 10y ago

+1 for GPLv2 or later. It's nice to see new software have strong copyleft licenses.

neves 10y ago

BTW, I really liked the MOOC Visual Effects for Guerrilla Filmmakers https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/vfx-for-filmmakers https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/vfx-for-filmmakers It uses Hit Film Express, a free version of the commercial product. I was able to learn the basic techniques of VFX and started to use Hit Film to edit my family videos. Win-Win.

erichocean 10y ago

It's worth noting that Natron uses a number of very high-quality open source projects under the hood, including OpenImageIO[0] and OpenColorIO[1]. Many of them (unlike Natron) have a commercial-friendly BSD-like open source license. [0] https://sites.google.com/site/openimageio/home https://sites.google.com/site/openimageio/home [1] http://opencolorio.org/ http://opencolorio.org/