4 ms·

Can I make a suggestion? I have several acquaintances who work in the trades (carpentry, house framing, fence building, concrete driveways/sidewalks/porches bu

Can I make a suggestion? I have several acquaintances who work in the trades (carpentry, house framing, fence building, concrete driveways/sidewalks/porches building, window/door installers, painters, etc.). Buying and rehabbing real estate over the past several years, I've met a lot of these folks. Most of their ability to earn a living wage has been decimated by unchecked immigration. So I suggest we start there -- give all the tradespeople in our area, who were born here and have now seen their livelihoods decimated -- a living wage. That way, we can tell them "yes we've fully endorsed unchecked migration, and your jobs are gone, but here -- have this living wage." What a nice gesture on the part of we the elite!

ilaksh 10y ago
Its not the immigration its the illegal pay and lack of benefits that they are given. The construction industry is based on underpaying migrants. If you have been rehabing homes then you certainly took advantage of this too. Look in the mirror.
- youngButEager 10y ago
  Actually, I cannot possibly 'take advantage' of illegal labor -- maybe the people who I hire to do the work do that. If you're rehabbing properties in this area (Silicon Valley) you cannot give work to people unless they have a Contractor's license, which you can verify here: http://www.cslb.ca.gov/ http://www.cslb.ca.gov/ There are many reasons for only hiring licensed contractors: 1) your homeowners or commercial insurance will not be able to 'weasel out' of covering a loss if the contractor has an in-effect license (who got injured or who caused injury or any type of loss, really) 2) you can check their fixed address so that if you need to serve them (for small claims, or a lawsuit, etc.) -- you know you can find them 3) no language barrier, so it's possible to 100% eliminate any possible misunderstanding of the outcome that the hired work needs to achieve In 2005 a buddy of mine hired a presumptive illegal from the Home Depot parking lot. I alerted my friend "not sure if you've seen this yet, but the guy is using a hand saw to cut and hang your sheetrock" Anyone dumb enough to hire an illegal probably deserves a guy who cuts and hangs sheetrock with a hand saw Mein gott.
  - e12e 10y ago
    I'm not sure about California, but eg. in Norway, the problem is usually that contractors will hire sub-contractors, that'll pocket the difference between what on paper might look like a "living wage" (although, often when you factor in materials and look at actual time spent, the offers start to look suspiciously cheap) - and hire someone unaware of local conditions, and pay what ends up being effectively slave wages. There was recently a case where the local government had contracted for all the electric and cabling for a new hospital - and it turned out that after calculating the expected pay due to the hours in the offer, there wasn't any money left for the actual cables and electronics the company was supposed to install (also included in the offer). Usually this is all accompanied by fake work contracts that lists higher wages than what's actually paid to the workers. So your line of: > Actually, I cannot possibly 'take advantage' of illegal labor -- maybe the people who I hire to do the work do that. reads a lot like "I do take advantage, but I'm wilfully ignorant, so I'm not the bad guy". Not saying that's the case, just saying that's the impression you give.
  - ilaksh 10y ago
    100% guaranteed some of your contractors used illegal labor and you know that.
    - youngButEager 10y ago
      Well, I only hire licensed contractors, including painters, but in the trades (at least in the Bay Area) people I've hired are happy for the work and since my first project in 1993, have complained about the flood of illegals taking work from them by undercutting on the price. I would imagine that a lot of people don't realize the risk they take hiring an unlicensed contractor. So the law-abiding tradespeople lose work to that. You cannot risk hiring unlicensed tradespeople unless you're just really, really stupid. The "loss of insurance" risk alone is bad enough.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    How do you think sheetrock is supposed to be cut? You score it with a knife and snap it for long straight cuts. You use a hand saw for complicated or non-straight cuts. Or you might use a small rotary power tool but it really doesn't make any difference.

ilaksh 10y ago

Its not the immigration its the illegal pay and lack of benefits that they are given. The construction industry is based on underpaying migrants. If you have been rehabing homes then you certainly took advantage of this too. Look in the mirror.

youngButEager 10y ago
Actually, I cannot possibly 'take advantage' of illegal labor -- maybe the people who I hire to do the work do that. If you're rehabbing properties in this area (Silicon Valley) you cannot give work to people unless they have a Contractor's license, which you can verify here: http://www.cslb.ca.gov/ http://www.cslb.ca.gov/ There are many reasons for only hiring licensed contractors: 1) your homeowners or commercial insurance will not be able to 'weasel out' of covering a loss if the contractor has an in-effect license (who got injured or who caused injury or any type of loss, really) 2) you can check their fixed address so that if you need to serve them (for small claims, or a lawsuit, etc.) -- you know you can find them 3) no language barrier, so it's possible to 100% eliminate any possible misunderstanding of the outcome that the hired work needs to achieve In 2005 a buddy of mine hired a presumptive illegal from the Home Depot parking lot. I alerted my friend "not sure if you've seen this yet, but the guy is using a hand saw to cut and hang your sheetrock" Anyone dumb enough to hire an illegal probably deserves a guy who cuts and hangs sheetrock with a hand saw Mein gott.
- e12e 10y ago
  I'm not sure about California, but eg. in Norway, the problem is usually that contractors will hire sub-contractors, that'll pocket the difference between what on paper might look like a "living wage" (although, often when you factor in materials and look at actual time spent, the offers start to look suspiciously cheap) - and hire someone unaware of local conditions, and pay what ends up being effectively slave wages. There was recently a case where the local government had contracted for all the electric and cabling for a new hospital - and it turned out that after calculating the expected pay due to the hours in the offer, there wasn't any money left for the actual cables and electronics the company was supposed to install (also included in the offer). Usually this is all accompanied by fake work contracts that lists higher wages than what's actually paid to the workers. So your line of: > Actually, I cannot possibly 'take advantage' of illegal labor -- maybe the people who I hire to do the work do that. reads a lot like "I do take advantage, but I'm wilfully ignorant, so I'm not the bad guy". Not saying that's the case, just saying that's the impression you give.
- ilaksh 10y ago
  100% guaranteed some of your contractors used illegal labor and you know that.
  - youngButEager 10y ago
    Well, I only hire licensed contractors, including painters, but in the trades (at least in the Bay Area) people I've hired are happy for the work and since my first project in 1993, have complained about the flood of illegals taking work from them by undercutting on the price. I would imagine that a lot of people don't realize the risk they take hiring an unlicensed contractor. So the law-abiding tradespeople lose work to that. You cannot risk hiring unlicensed tradespeople unless you're just really, really stupid. The "loss of insurance" risk alone is bad enough.
- ams6110 10y ago
  How do you think sheetrock is supposed to be cut? You score it with a knife and snap it for long straight cuts. You use a hand saw for complicated or non-straight cuts. Or you might use a small rotary power tool but it really doesn't make any difference.