4 ms·

I don't understand. The EU has been extremely ineffective at negotiating trade deals between the 28 EU countries, and non EU countries. We (UK) will be far mo

I don't understand. The EU has been extremely ineffective at negotiating trade deals between the 28 EU countries, and non EU countries. We (UK) will be far more effective at negotiating our own trade deals with non EU countries. It's far simpler for a start.

dragonwriter 10y ago
> The EU has been extremely ineffective at negotiating trade deals between the 28 EU countries, and non EU countries. Exactly, which casts strong doubts on the this claim from your earlier post: "We will negotiate a trade deal with the EU as a whole." Because, you know, that is a trade deal between the 27 remaining EU countries and a non-(or soon to be non-)EU country, the exact thing you say that the EU isn't successful at doing.
- volatilitish 10y ago
  We buy more from the EU than we sell. We are the EUs biggest market. We buy 1,000,000 cars from Germany. It is massively in the EU's interests to do a deal with us quickly.
  - sangnoir 10y ago
    Politics is not always rational. It is also in the interest of the survival of the EU to deal with the UK in a heavy-handed manner. If a precedent is set that shows leaving the union is all upsides with no downsides, why would other countries remain? IMO, France has the greatest risk of leaving next, and without France, the whole EU might collapse. The kid gloves are definitely going to come off in the negotiations: I have an inkling that's why the 'Leave' campaign is delaying the invocation of article 50.
    - zepto 10y ago
      People keep saying this, but punishing the UK for leaving could easily give further fuel to the French leave campaign. And of course an exited Britain could extend an olive branch to France.
      - Daishiman 10y ago
        After a 10% reduction in real income for the Brits just one day after the referendum? Fat chance.
        zepto 10y ago
        That 10% is just the market reacting to it's failed prediction.
        gakada 10y ago
        But the prediction was that the status quo would continue.
        amscanne 10y ago
        What does "real income" mean to you? Income in USD? The only sensible way to measure income is with purchasing power, and that's far more complex than an exchange rate (since many of the services and goods originate in the UK anyways).
      - Oletros 10y ago
        > People keep saying this, but punishing the UK for leaving could easily give further fuel to the French leave campaign. Giving the same deal that they have right now is what will give further fuel to leave. Why should I stay when I can have a better deal leaving?
        zepto 10y ago
        Sure - but the converse - punishing them for leaving - confirms that the EU is a political hegemony whose purpose is to usurp sovereignty, rather than a mutually beneficial union of member states who are members by choice. That would provide perfect ammunition for nationalists everywhere. See: http://newobserveronline.com/brexit-contagion-germany-fears-5-leaves/ http://newobserveronline.com/brexit-contagion-germany-fears-...
        10y ago
    - volatilitish 10y ago
      > I have an inkling that's why the 'Leave' campaign is delaying the invocation of article 50. Seriously. Do you even know what you're talking about? Only our elected government (who were on the remain side), can invoke article 50, and it's up to them to decide when. Hopefully the whole EU does collapse.
      - sangnoir 10y ago
        > Do you even know what you're talking about As a matter of fact, yes I do. Boris Johnson has come out and said there is "no need to rush", and he was on the Leave side. > Only our elected government (who were on the remain side), can invoke article 50 That's just a roundabout way of saying "The Tories", innit? Cameron is a lame duck, and if the Leave wing of the Tories wanted him out tomorrow, he'd be out tomorrow.
        volatilitish 10y ago
        And Boris Johnson isn't in any position of power currently. It's not up to him yet.
  - jeroen 10y ago
    It is in the EU's interest to make that deal less favourable for the UK than the current situation. Making a point about the benefits of the EU membership is really important right now.
  - bigheadpercoli 10y ago
    A new trade deal will likely lead to higher car cost in England. Which car company in the UK could take the market share from Germany? Seems like a seller market to me.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> The EU has been extremely ineffective at negotiating trade deals between the 28 EU countries, and non EU countries. Exactly, which casts strong doubts on the this claim from your earlier post: "We will negotiate a trade deal with the EU as a whole." Because, you know, that is a trade deal between the 27 remaining EU countries and a non-(or soon to be non-)EU country, the exact thing you say that the EU isn't successful at doing.

volatilitish 10y ago
We buy more from the EU than we sell. We are the EUs biggest market. We buy 1,000,000 cars from Germany. It is massively in the EU's interests to do a deal with us quickly.
- sangnoir 10y ago
  Politics is not always rational. It is also in the interest of the survival of the EU to deal with the UK in a heavy-handed manner. If a precedent is set that shows leaving the union is all upsides with no downsides, why would other countries remain? IMO, France has the greatest risk of leaving next, and without France, the whole EU might collapse. The kid gloves are definitely going to come off in the negotiations: I have an inkling that's why the 'Leave' campaign is delaying the invocation of article 50.
  - zepto 10y ago
    People keep saying this, but punishing the UK for leaving could easily give further fuel to the French leave campaign. And of course an exited Britain could extend an olive branch to France.
    - Daishiman 10y ago
      After a 10% reduction in real income for the Brits just one day after the referendum? Fat chance.
      - zepto 10y ago
        That 10% is just the market reacting to it's failed prediction.
        gakada 10y ago
        But the prediction was that the status quo would continue.
      - amscanne 10y ago
        What does "real income" mean to you? Income in USD? The only sensible way to measure income is with purchasing power, and that's far more complex than an exchange rate (since many of the services and goods originate in the UK anyways).
    - Oletros 10y ago
      > People keep saying this, but punishing the UK for leaving could easily give further fuel to the French leave campaign. Giving the same deal that they have right now is what will give further fuel to leave. Why should I stay when I can have a better deal leaving?
      - zepto 10y ago
        Sure - but the converse - punishing them for leaving - confirms that the EU is a political hegemony whose purpose is to usurp sovereignty, rather than a mutually beneficial union of member states who are members by choice. That would provide perfect ammunition for nationalists everywhere. See: http://newobserveronline.com/brexit-contagion-germany-fears-5-leaves/ http://newobserveronline.com/brexit-contagion-germany-fears-...
        10y ago
  - volatilitish 10y ago
    > I have an inkling that's why the 'Leave' campaign is delaying the invocation of article 50. Seriously. Do you even know what you're talking about? Only our elected government (who were on the remain side), can invoke article 50, and it's up to them to decide when. Hopefully the whole EU does collapse.
    - sangnoir 10y ago
      > Do you even know what you're talking about As a matter of fact, yes I do. Boris Johnson has come out and said there is "no need to rush", and he was on the Leave side. > Only our elected government (who were on the remain side), can invoke article 50 That's just a roundabout way of saying "The Tories", innit? Cameron is a lame duck, and if the Leave wing of the Tories wanted him out tomorrow, he'd be out tomorrow.
      - volatilitish 10y ago
        And Boris Johnson isn't in any position of power currently. It's not up to him yet.
- jeroen 10y ago
  It is in the EU's interest to make that deal less favourable for the UK than the current situation. Making a point about the benefits of the EU membership is really important right now.
- bigheadpercoli 10y ago
  A new trade deal will likely lead to higher car cost in England. Which car company in the UK could take the market share from Germany? Seems like a seller market to me.