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He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such a s

by geff82 10y ago

He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had. Which he already was before yesterday. By the way, if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU, why does he not let his people vote on whether they want total surveillance or not? If they want a police state? Why can't they decide on stuff that affects their daily lives in a potential negative way? Or will they ignore the voice of the voters, Boaty McBoatface-style?

CommanderData 10y ago
This government is for austerity and cutting public services and expenditure. He is no less a reflection of his party. Next PM's in line: Theresa May: Pro snoopers (spying) charter. I don't like the term police state but her actions are worryingly in line. Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His selling point being the golden coloured hairy creature that has permanently occupied his scalp. Yes. We have a great line up of next potential PM's for Britain.
- fredley 10y ago
  Theresa May is one of the scariest contenders as far as I've seen. Very pro-surveillance and anti-open internet. She would be a (nother) disaster for UK tech. If there's anybody left who hasn't moved to Dublin/Berlin by October.
  - geff82 10y ago
    The problem we currently have in politics it demography. People get older and older, the baby boomers forgot to "produce" children. Elder people tend to be deeply conservative and anti-technology. And as they are the majority now, they vote for stuff that they think is right ("let's 100% control that freaking thing called internet") and totally strangle the younger generation with their bad taste and shortsightedness.
    - e12e 10y ago
      I find it at a little odd to read this characterisation on HN of all places. I mean, it's pretty much run by "old" technologists, right?
      - geff82 10y ago
        You are absolutely right, while I am, too. Of course there are progressive, far thinking elderly people and I enjoy being around them. I recently talked to a 71 year old who is into fractal programming and wants to get into Linux, soon (all while being politically liberal). But the elections and polls show always the same picture: the older people get, the more conservative/right wing they vote, which is often not what the younger need. I don't think it helps the younger UK generation, that has been used to think globally/European, that they now are politically separated from EVERY neighbor they have.
        CM30 10y ago
        Well, it'd help if the younger generation actually bothered for things instead of complaining about them on social media. Less online petitions, more going down to the ballot box. If they were represented in the vote, more politicians would listen to them. But they currently don't because the older generations actually show up on voting day.
        ThatGeoGuy 10y ago
        This is disingenuous. Blaming millennials for not showing up at the poll is a strawman argument, as the vast majority of younger folk did show up (80% turnout ages 18-24)[1]. Sure, it's less than the 95+% of people 60 and older, but there's a hell of a lot more baby boomers than there are millennials. The problem isn't as simple as "young people don't vote". [1] http://graphics.wsj.com/brexit-whos-voting-what/?mod=e2fb http://graphics.wsj.com/brexit-whos-voting-what/?mod=e2fb
        CM30 10y ago
  - arethuza 10y ago
    I'm just back from Sweden - Gothenburg or Stockholm are starting to look pretty attractive if things go horribly wrong in the UK.
  - secfirstmd 10y ago
    People of Ireland speaking here: -Want to stay in the EU? -Want to trade in the Eurozone? -Enjoy low corporate tax rate of 12.5%? Pro-business government? -Enjoy friendly, well educated, English speaking, Pro-American people, good beer, decent music, nice quality of life, low crime and safe green natural environment? (Look how much fun even our soccer fans are http://www.irishexaminer.com/euro2016/euro2016-banter/10-reasons-why-the-irish-fans-have-won-the-internet-at-euro2016-405576.html http://www.irishexaminer.com/euro2016/euro2016-banter/10-rea...) Invest in Ireland -> http://www.idaireland.com http://www.idaireland.com This has been a public service announcement from the country next door. #irelandlovesyou :)
    - cylinder 10y ago
      What are your thoughts on this thread? Some really negative anecdotes about Dublin living: https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/comments/4p9r9l/dublins_skyhigh_rents_have_made_it_one_of_europes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/comments/4p9r9l/dublins_sk...
      - anonymousDan 10y ago
        My god there is some serious whingey nonsense on that thread. Most of the arguments boil down to accommodation being expensive for students in the centre of a relatively wealthy European capital. Well no shit, as if it's not any worse in most other cities. As a software professional you'd be well able to afford it. I do agree there is a shortage of accommodation at the moment, but that's almost certainly a temporary issue. After the property crash in Ireland a few years ago builders and property developers were cast as the root of all evil. As a result (and because banks were broke and so weren't lending for mortgages), housebuilding ground to a halt even though Ireland has the highest birth rate in the EU and most commentators were warning this would lead to problems down the line. And so it has come to pass that now there is a shortage of cheap accommodation, and in particular social housing. However I expect this to resolve itself over the next few years, and the government has already promised to pump money into public housing.
        secfirstmd 10y ago
- mtgx 10y ago
  Theresa May would be a scary successor indeed, and may even top Cameron as the worst UK leader. UK needs to vote conservatives out, and it needs to reconsider switching the voting system (this time to a proportional representation one).
  - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
    They probably will at the next election, the trouble is the alternative is looking pretty pathetic.
  - gadders 10y ago
    A referendum was held on proportional representation (one method, at least) and was rejected.
    - fnord123 10y ago
      Alternate Voting is not a method of proportional representation. It is another voting scheme. The Liberal Democrats wanted a vote for Proportional Representation and the Conservatives agreed to a referendum, but on the rubbish AV scheme instead. Many many people voted against AV because it wasn't as good as PR and didn't want to change multiple times. PR is superior to AV and FPTP and should be implemented. It shouldn't even have a referendum. It should just be done.
      - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
        Many people voted against AV because the Liberal Democrats proposed it.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > Alternate Voting is not a method of proportional representation Alternative Voting (AV) is a single member district voting system that produces results where the representations of policy views in the elected parliament are more proportional to the views in the electorate than first past the post, and thus is a method of enhancing the proportionality of the election system for a parliament when the status quo is FPTP. It do so less than Single Transferrable Vote (STV) in multimember districts (AV -- known more often to US audiences as Instant Runoff Voting [IRV] -- is just the single-member-district case of STV, which supports any district size). Its relationship to other PR schemes where not all candidates are directly elected by-name by general election voters (the most frequent being Party-List Proportional and Mixed-Member Proportional) is complicated -- those schemes optimize for proportionality of partisan composition of the legislature, but provide weaker accountability of individual politicians to the general electorate. But PR itself isn't a system, its a (continuous valued, not even binary) feature of an electoral system. You can't "implement PR", you can adopt a system that increases (or decreases) the degree to which you have PR.
- rdsubhas 10y ago
  And how do all these people get voted in?
- Shivetya 10y ago
  Still trying to understand how austerity can still mean increasing spending. Looking at their expenditures they peaked in 2009 at 51.5% and dropped to lower forties but much of that has been because the economy finally started recovering faster than the government could spend money mostly because of pressure on politicians not to. However the key here is, they never spent less than the year before, simply reduced the amount they increased spending. Increasing spending is not austerity
  - adventured 10y ago
    Simply put, there never was austerity in most of Europe. That's a propaganda line to simultaneously cover the lack of economic growth for nearly a decade, and to use as an excuse to acquire a larger State through even greater spending. You can go line by line down the list of European countries and their government expenditures. Only a few of them reduced spending, most have increased spending. In actual fact, only two or three nations experienced any real austerity, but they all pretend to have. What they're really experiencing, is the total suffocation of economic growth by extreme debt. The exact same thing Japan has been enjoying for a quarter century.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Boris Johnson is anything but an idiot - that image of a harmless buffoon is a front.
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    I know next to nothing to Britain and London's politics but I can't trust/don't want to have leaders that have to put up buffoon front to get elected or get traction. Because next time you risk getting a real buffoon. Or worse, it won't matter wether politicians are buffoons or not.
  - mikekchar 10y ago
    Boris Johnson as Prime Minister. Imagine the bicycle lanes... Which is not to say that I disagree with you. As mayor of London he knew what was important and it was not what most people would think is important.
  - MagnumOpus 10y ago
    BoJo was a King's scholar at Eton - meaning he is probably the smartest guy in the room, especially if that room is a Tory party conference room. Which implies him grabbing the leadership and dismantling the UK is not buffoonery, but deliberate. Scary.
- darkr 10y ago
  > Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His persona is that of a charismatic bumbling idiot, but idiot he is not. Underneath this persona lies a highly intelligent, disingenuous, manipulative and calculating operator. I genuinely think that he didn't believe in Brexit; rather he saw a potential route into number 10 and took a gamble on it.
  - corin_ 10y ago
    Even his choice of idiot persona is an act of genius in terms of how well it has served him.
    - junto 10y ago
      George Bush springs to mind. Though maybe he actually was a patsy.
      - oldmanjay 10y ago
        Let's be fair here. Liberal bias requires people to either believe anyone with conservative leanings MUST be stupid or the received wisdom that liberal philosophies are naturally correct must be incomplete. There's no real choice here, every single person on earth will assume everyone else is stupid before assuming they may be wrong.
        qdog 10y ago
        That's the exact opposite of liberal, "open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values." There are plenty of intelligent people in all parties, disagreeing with them doesn't make them idiots. Greenspan comes to mind, I think his basic market beliefs are wrong, but don't think he's an idiot, I have read his book. GW is a lot closer to idiot level because of his demeanor AND his actions, but let's be serious few actual idiots make it that far, just not all of them are way above average intelligence.
        SEJeff 10y ago
- DonaldFisk 10y ago
  I'm no fan of hers, but home secretaries seem to get house trained by the security service (MI5) soon after taking office. The home secretaries of the previous Blair/Brown Labour administration were also dreadful. Someone once said that every home secretary since Roy Jenkins has been worse than the previous one. And Boris Johnson is no idiot. It's part of his act.
verbify 10y ago
Do you forget what a shambles Tony Blair was? Led us into a pointless war that cost 100,000s of lives. As bad as David Cameron was, he kept us out of war.
- youngtaff 10y ago
  Blair is probably the reason many Labour heartlands voted for out, he opened the doors to mass migration without thinking about the implications for those who might be displaced by it (or rather feel they were displaced by it)
  - reitoei 10y ago
    > opened the doors to mass migration without thinking about the implications for those who might be displaced by it (or rather feel they were displaced by it) just... wow
    - anothermouse 10y ago
      Please elaborate, as in the Northeast this is exactly what happened. Do you agree or disagree, or are you just saying "wow" as youngtaff has opened your eyes to how many members of the tradition labour vote outside London view Europe?
      - reitoei 10y ago
        Who, exactly, has been displaced by mass migration in the Northeast?
        anothermouse 10y ago
        Historically labour voting workers have been displaced from their jobs by low skilled immigrants. Don't just take my words for it: https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/brexit-wins-an-illusion-dies-b60b6efad2d7#.so91zzfau https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/brexit-wins-an-illusion-di... "Britain has voted to leave the EU. The reason? A large section of the working class, concentrated in towns and cities that have been quietly devastated by free-market economics, decided they’d had enough. [...] Neither the political centre or the pro-remain left was able to explain how to offset the negative economic impact of low-skilled migration in conditions of (a) guaranteed free movement (b) permanent stagnation in Europe and (c) austerity in Britain. " Were you think physically displaced, rather than "taking over the role of" displaced?
jdimov10 10y ago
Hard to beat Blair, really. Cameron may be dumber, but certainly not worse.
- parenthesis 10y ago
  Every prime minister has their "Suez": David Cameron: losing the EU referendum Gordon Brown: The financial crisis Tony Blair: Iraq John Major: Black Wednesday; Tory party "sleaze" Margaret Thatcher: The poll tax James Callaghan: The Winter of Discontent … etc.
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    All political lives, unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture, end in failure, because that is the nature of politics and of human affairs. Enoch Powell
random_upvoter 10y ago
Cameron called for the referendum in the hope of shutting up the eurosceptics in his own party forever. At the time it was not a bad idea, given that literally nobody believed that the leave vote could win.
- yabatopia 10y ago
  I wouldn't call someone who needs a nationwide referendum to silence opposition within his own party a very good leader.
  - Angostura 10y ago
    It wasn't just to silence opposition within his own party. It was also to stop the haemorrhaging of support from all mainstream parties towards UKIP. It was a reasonable gamble that failed.
    - dajohnson89 10y ago
      That's like saying betting the house on one of Germany, Italy, or Spain winning the Euro cup is a reasonable gamble.
    - adwf 10y ago
      Yes, people forget that he'd already had two MPs jump ship to UKIP. If he hadn't promised a referendum the party would've split down the middle. What I don't get, and didn't get with the Scots referendum either, is why on earth they didn't require a super-majority? Surely with something as critical as this, you'd want a bit more convincing than a 2% margin? It doesn't have to be a 3/4ths or even 2/3rds, but a 60.1/39.9 split would've been nicely convincing that one side is definitely in a minority. Instead we've just proven once again that the UK is fractured politically North/South/Scotland/NI/etc.
      - jacquesm 10y ago
        > If he hadn't promised a referendum the party would've split down the middle. And now you have a country split down the middle.
porker 10y ago
And his laughably bad (if it weren't so serious) handling of the 'renegotiation' with Europe months before the referendum. He certainly comes across as a blustering public-schoolboy, which was never going to go down well with his European counterparts.
abotley 10y ago
"if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU" That was a popular demand by the public as the UK hadn't had a referendum on EU membership in 40 years. He made a promise to hold the referendum because of this and fulfilled his promise. If a politician keeping a promise is a problem, then we're all doomed
- bonif 10y ago
  Making that promise was an error in the first place
- ajuc 10y ago
  > If a politician keeping a promise is a problem, then we're all doomed Yes. We are.
al_chemist 10y ago
> if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU It was a deal he striken during last election. To buy UKIP votes (their main goal was to leave EU) he said he will make a referendum. His calculation was that there are not enough UKIP voters (~20% maybe) to pass referendum, but it will allow him to get elected (his voters + UKIP voters).
logicallee 10y ago
you kind of lose some steam at the end of your comment there
Grue3 10y ago
>He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had Talk about lack of perspective. In the long term it's absolutely insignificant. It's like people calling GWB or Obama the worst US president. Can't believe such a poorly thought out comment is at the top.
- Naga 10y ago
  I don't think he will necessary go down as the worst leader, but his name is going to be tarred with being the prime minister who started the dissolution of the United Kingdom.
- Analemma_ 10y ago
  Normally I would agree with you and say that "worst leader ever" statements are hyperbolic when the leader is still in office, but this time I think it's appropriate. The United Kingdom is probably going to ultimately dissolve as a result of this vote, and Cameron is going to be remembered as the moron who let it happen, all because of a catastrophically failed gambit to pander to the Ukip-leaning Tories. "Worst leader ever" seems apt when you directly caused a nation's end.
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    That's rather ... Chicken Littlish. The people voted. Let's see what the people can do now.
  - Yhippa 10y ago
    What I don't understand is that isn't this what the people wanted? Across the pond it sounds like he tried to call someone's (pro-Brexit) bluff and lost. At the end of the day it sounds like this is what the people wanted though. I'm not seeing a lot of news about how the pro-Brexit people feel about the dissolution of the UK. Surely they knew this was an outcome.
    - Analemma_ 10y ago
      > I'm not seeing a lot of news about how the pro-Brexit people feel about the dissolution of the UK. Surely they knew this was an outcome. Want to know something darkly amusing? It's possible that they didn't. This is still anecdotal at this point, and of course the Remain side could be playing it up, but there are reports that at least some Leave voters intended it as a protest vote thinking it wouldn't actually happen: https://twitter.com/AdamWSweeney/status/746261907233988609 https://twitter.com/AdamWSweeney/status/746261907233988609 How wonderful would that be, if the biggest blunder in Britain's history happened unintentionally because some people wanted to stick it to their council. I need to go drink some more.
Grishnakh 10y ago
In defense of the Boaty McBoatface incident, that was not democracy by a long shot. That was an internet poll, not any kind of official vote. It was a poll of people who actually knew about it, and bothered to get online and vote about it. That's nothing at all like a proper election where there are proper ballots (though a lot of government elections these days lack those too, but that's another discussion...), voters are notified, there's independent monitors, etc. I don't think you can call the BMbB name "the will of the voters" in any intellectually honest way. If it had been made a ballot proposition during a regular election, then sure. But not with some silly internet poll.
vacri 10y ago
> if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU To reiterate what al_chemist has already said, the price for UKIP supporting the Tories to form government was holding this referendum. It wasn't a lark on the part of the Tories. Not even Farage thought UKIP would win - the BBC had quoted him stating they weren't going to win on the morning of the vote.
Tloewald 10y ago
A vote that causes an instant 5-8% downgrade in the market's evaluation of pretty much an entire country is something that affects people's daily lives, unfortunately. (I guess it's similar in scope to electing George W. Bush, but it was not clear how bad a decision this was for a couple of years.) Before the vote, the consensus estimate by economists was that this would be a 2% hit to GDP. Again, that affects people's daily lives -- it's essentially a self-inflicted recession.
limeyx 10y ago
Yeah he's a nasty weasly only likely marginally better than Bliar. I still think this is going to be a bad move. Yes Europe is very very broken but I think better to try to fix it than go it alone
dredmorbius 10y ago
"Peace in our time." -- Neville Chamberlain

by geff82 10y ago

CommanderData 10y ago

This government is for austerity and cutting public services and expenditure. He is no less a reflection of his party. Next PM's in line: Theresa May: Pro snoopers (spying) charter. I don't like the term police state but her actions are worryingly in line. Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His selling point being the golden coloured hairy creature that has permanently occupied his scalp. Yes. We have a great line up of next potential PM's for Britain.

fredley 10y ago
Theresa May is one of the scariest contenders as far as I've seen. Very pro-surveillance and anti-open internet. She would be a (nother) disaster for UK tech. If there's anybody left who hasn't moved to Dublin/Berlin by October.
- geff82 10y ago
  The problem we currently have in politics it demography. People get older and older, the baby boomers forgot to "produce" children. Elder people tend to be deeply conservative and anti-technology. And as they are the majority now, they vote for stuff that they think is right ("let's 100% control that freaking thing called internet") and totally strangle the younger generation with their bad taste and shortsightedness.
  - e12e 10y ago
    I find it at a little odd to read this characterisation on HN of all places. I mean, it's pretty much run by "old" technologists, right?
    - geff82 10y ago
      You are absolutely right, while I am, too. Of course there are progressive, far thinking elderly people and I enjoy being around them. I recently talked to a 71 year old who is into fractal programming and wants to get into Linux, soon (all while being politically liberal). But the elections and polls show always the same picture: the older people get, the more conservative/right wing they vote, which is often not what the younger need. I don't think it helps the younger UK generation, that has been used to think globally/European, that they now are politically separated from EVERY neighbor they have.
      - CM30 10y ago
        Well, it'd help if the younger generation actually bothered for things instead of complaining about them on social media. Less online petitions, more going down to the ballot box. If they were represented in the vote, more politicians would listen to them. But they currently don't because the older generations actually show up on voting day.
        ThatGeoGuy 10y ago
        This is disingenuous. Blaming millennials for not showing up at the poll is a strawman argument, as the vast majority of younger folk did show up (80% turnout ages 18-24)[1]. Sure, it's less than the 95+% of people 60 and older, but there's a hell of a lot more baby boomers than there are millennials. The problem isn't as simple as "young people don't vote". [1] http://graphics.wsj.com/brexit-whos-voting-what/?mod=e2fb http://graphics.wsj.com/brexit-whos-voting-what/?mod=e2fb
        CM30 10y ago
- arethuza 10y ago
  I'm just back from Sweden - Gothenburg or Stockholm are starting to look pretty attractive if things go horribly wrong in the UK.
- secfirstmd 10y ago
  People of Ireland speaking here: -Want to stay in the EU? -Want to trade in the Eurozone? -Enjoy low corporate tax rate of 12.5%? Pro-business government? -Enjoy friendly, well educated, English speaking, Pro-American people, good beer, decent music, nice quality of life, low crime and safe green natural environment? (Look how much fun even our soccer fans are http://www.irishexaminer.com/euro2016/euro2016-banter/10-reasons-why-the-irish-fans-have-won-the-internet-at-euro2016-405576.html http://www.irishexaminer.com/euro2016/euro2016-banter/10-rea...) Invest in Ireland -> http://www.idaireland.com http://www.idaireland.com This has been a public service announcement from the country next door. #irelandlovesyou :)
  - cylinder 10y ago
    What are your thoughts on this thread? Some really negative anecdotes about Dublin living: https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/comments/4p9r9l/dublins_skyhigh_rents_have_made_it_one_of_europes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/comments/4p9r9l/dublins_sk...
    - anonymousDan 10y ago
      My god there is some serious whingey nonsense on that thread. Most of the arguments boil down to accommodation being expensive for students in the centre of a relatively wealthy European capital. Well no shit, as if it's not any worse in most other cities. As a software professional you'd be well able to afford it. I do agree there is a shortage of accommodation at the moment, but that's almost certainly a temporary issue. After the property crash in Ireland a few years ago builders and property developers were cast as the root of all evil. As a result (and because banks were broke and so weren't lending for mortgages), housebuilding ground to a halt even though Ireland has the highest birth rate in the EU and most commentators were warning this would lead to problems down the line. And so it has come to pass that now there is a shortage of cheap accommodation, and in particular social housing. However I expect this to resolve itself over the next few years, and the government has already promised to pump money into public housing.
      - secfirstmd 10y ago
mtgx 10y ago
Theresa May would be a scary successor indeed, and may even top Cameron as the worst UK leader. UK needs to vote conservatives out, and it needs to reconsider switching the voting system (this time to a proportional representation one).
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  They probably will at the next election, the trouble is the alternative is looking pretty pathetic.
- gadders 10y ago
  A referendum was held on proportional representation (one method, at least) and was rejected.
  - fnord123 10y ago
    Alternate Voting is not a method of proportional representation. It is another voting scheme. The Liberal Democrats wanted a vote for Proportional Representation and the Conservatives agreed to a referendum, but on the rubbish AV scheme instead. Many many people voted against AV because it wasn't as good as PR and didn't want to change multiple times. PR is superior to AV and FPTP and should be implemented. It shouldn't even have a referendum. It should just be done.
    - tonyedgecombe 10y ago
      Many people voted against AV because the Liberal Democrats proposed it.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > Alternate Voting is not a method of proportional representation Alternative Voting (AV) is a single member district voting system that produces results where the representations of policy views in the elected parliament are more proportional to the views in the electorate than first past the post, and thus is a method of enhancing the proportionality of the election system for a parliament when the status quo is FPTP. It do so less than Single Transferrable Vote (STV) in multimember districts (AV -- known more often to US audiences as Instant Runoff Voting [IRV] -- is just the single-member-district case of STV, which supports any district size). Its relationship to other PR schemes where not all candidates are directly elected by-name by general election voters (the most frequent being Party-List Proportional and Mixed-Member Proportional) is complicated -- those schemes optimize for proportionality of partisan composition of the legislature, but provide weaker accountability of individual politicians to the general electorate. But PR itself isn't a system, its a (continuous valued, not even binary) feature of an electoral system. You can't "implement PR", you can adopt a system that increases (or decreases) the degree to which you have PR.
rdsubhas 10y ago
And how do all these people get voted in?
Shivetya 10y ago
Still trying to understand how austerity can still mean increasing spending. Looking at their expenditures they peaked in 2009 at 51.5% and dropped to lower forties but much of that has been because the economy finally started recovering faster than the government could spend money mostly because of pressure on politicians not to. However the key here is, they never spent less than the year before, simply reduced the amount they increased spending. Increasing spending is not austerity
- adventured 10y ago
  Simply put, there never was austerity in most of Europe. That's a propaganda line to simultaneously cover the lack of economic growth for nearly a decade, and to use as an excuse to acquire a larger State through even greater spending. You can go line by line down the list of European countries and their government expenditures. Only a few of them reduced spending, most have increased spending. In actual fact, only two or three nations experienced any real austerity, but they all pretend to have. What they're really experiencing, is the total suffocation of economic growth by extreme debt. The exact same thing Japan has been enjoying for a quarter century.
arethuza 10y ago
Boris Johnson is anything but an idiot - that image of a harmless buffoon is a front.
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  I know next to nothing to Britain and London's politics but I can't trust/don't want to have leaders that have to put up buffoon front to get elected or get traction. Because next time you risk getting a real buffoon. Or worse, it won't matter wether politicians are buffoons or not.
- mikekchar 10y ago
  Boris Johnson as Prime Minister. Imagine the bicycle lanes... Which is not to say that I disagree with you. As mayor of London he knew what was important and it was not what most people would think is important.
- MagnumOpus 10y ago
  BoJo was a King's scholar at Eton - meaning he is probably the smartest guy in the room, especially if that room is a Tory party conference room. Which implies him grabbing the leadership and dismantling the UK is not buffoonery, but deliberate. Scary.
darkr 10y ago
> Boris Johnson? A very charismatic idiot. His persona is that of a charismatic bumbling idiot, but idiot he is not. Underneath this persona lies a highly intelligent, disingenuous, manipulative and calculating operator. I genuinely think that he didn't believe in Brexit; rather he saw a potential route into number 10 and took a gamble on it.
- corin_ 10y ago
  Even his choice of idiot persona is an act of genius in terms of how well it has served him.
  - junto 10y ago
    George Bush springs to mind. Though maybe he actually was a patsy.
    - oldmanjay 10y ago
      Let's be fair here. Liberal bias requires people to either believe anyone with conservative leanings MUST be stupid or the received wisdom that liberal philosophies are naturally correct must be incomplete. There's no real choice here, every single person on earth will assume everyone else is stupid before assuming they may be wrong.
      - qdog 10y ago
        That's the exact opposite of liberal, "open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values." There are plenty of intelligent people in all parties, disagreeing with them doesn't make them idiots. Greenspan comes to mind, I think his basic market beliefs are wrong, but don't think he's an idiot, I have read his book. GW is a lot closer to idiot level because of his demeanor AND his actions, but let's be serious few actual idiots make it that far, just not all of them are way above average intelligence.
        SEJeff 10y ago
DonaldFisk 10y ago
I'm no fan of hers, but home secretaries seem to get house trained by the security service (MI5) soon after taking office. The home secretaries of the previous Blair/Brown Labour administration were also dreadful. Someone once said that every home secretary since Roy Jenkins has been worse than the previous one. And Boris Johnson is no idiot. It's part of his act.

verbify 10y ago

Do you forget what a shambles Tony Blair was? Led us into a pointless war that cost 100,000s of lives. As bad as David Cameron was, he kept us out of war.

youngtaff 10y ago
Blair is probably the reason many Labour heartlands voted for out, he opened the doors to mass migration without thinking about the implications for those who might be displaced by it (or rather feel they were displaced by it)
- reitoei 10y ago
  > opened the doors to mass migration without thinking about the implications for those who might be displaced by it (or rather feel they were displaced by it) just... wow
  - anothermouse 10y ago
    Please elaborate, as in the Northeast this is exactly what happened. Do you agree or disagree, or are you just saying "wow" as youngtaff has opened your eyes to how many members of the tradition labour vote outside London view Europe?
    - reitoei 10y ago
      Who, exactly, has been displaced by mass migration in the Northeast?
      - anothermouse 10y ago
        Historically labour voting workers have been displaced from their jobs by low skilled immigrants. Don't just take my words for it: https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/brexit-wins-an-illusion-dies-b60b6efad2d7#.so91zzfau https://medium.com/mosquito-ridge/brexit-wins-an-illusion-di... "Britain has voted to leave the EU. The reason? A large section of the working class, concentrated in towns and cities that have been quietly devastated by free-market economics, decided they’d had enough. [...] Neither the political centre or the pro-remain left was able to explain how to offset the negative economic impact of low-skilled migration in conditions of (a) guaranteed free movement (b) permanent stagnation in Europe and (c) austerity in Britain. " Were you think physically displaced, rather than "taking over the role of" displaced?

jdimov10 10y ago

Hard to beat Blair, really. Cameron may be dumber, but certainly not worse.

parenthesis 10y ago
Every prime minister has their "Suez": David Cameron: losing the EU referendum Gordon Brown: The financial crisis Tony Blair: Iraq John Major: Black Wednesday; Tory party "sleaze" Margaret Thatcher: The poll tax James Callaghan: The Winter of Discontent … etc.
- danieltillett 10y ago
  All political lives, unless they are cut off in midstream at a happy juncture, end in failure, because that is the nature of politics and of human affairs. Enoch Powell

random_upvoter 10y ago

Cameron called for the referendum in the hope of shutting up the eurosceptics in his own party forever. At the time it was not a bad idea, given that literally nobody believed that the leave vote could win.

yabatopia 10y ago
I wouldn't call someone who needs a nationwide referendum to silence opposition within his own party a very good leader.
- Angostura 10y ago
  It wasn't just to silence opposition within his own party. It was also to stop the haemorrhaging of support from all mainstream parties towards UKIP. It was a reasonable gamble that failed.
  - dajohnson89 10y ago
    That's like saying betting the house on one of Germany, Italy, or Spain winning the Euro cup is a reasonable gamble.
  - adwf 10y ago
    Yes, people forget that he'd already had two MPs jump ship to UKIP. If he hadn't promised a referendum the party would've split down the middle. What I don't get, and didn't get with the Scots referendum either, is why on earth they didn't require a super-majority? Surely with something as critical as this, you'd want a bit more convincing than a 2% margin? It doesn't have to be a 3/4ths or even 2/3rds, but a 60.1/39.9 split would've been nicely convincing that one side is definitely in a minority. Instead we've just proven once again that the UK is fractured politically North/South/Scotland/NI/etc.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      > If he hadn't promised a referendum the party would've split down the middle. And now you have a country split down the middle.

porker 10y ago

And his laughably bad (if it weren't so serious) handling of the 'renegotiation' with Europe months before the referendum. He certainly comes across as a blustering public-schoolboy, which was never going to go down well with his European counterparts.

abotley 10y ago

"if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU" That was a popular demand by the public as the UK hadn't had a referendum on EU membership in 40 years. He made a promise to hold the referendum because of this and fulfilled his promise. If a politician keeping a promise is a problem, then we're all doomed

bonif 10y ago
Making that promise was an error in the first place
ajuc 10y ago
> If a politician keeping a promise is a problem, then we're all doomed Yes. We are.

al_chemist 10y ago

> if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU It was a deal he striken during last election. To buy UKIP votes (their main goal was to leave EU) he said he will make a referendum. His calculation was that there are not enough UKIP voters (~20% maybe) to pass referendum, but it will allow him to get elected (his voters + UKIP voters).

logicallee 10y ago

you kind of lose some steam at the end of your comment there

Grue3 10y ago

>He'll go down in history as one of the worst leaders the UK ever had Talk about lack of perspective. In the long term it's absolutely insignificant. It's like people calling GWB or Obama the worst US president. Can't believe such a poorly thought out comment is at the top.

Naga 10y ago
I don't think he will necessary go down as the worst leader, but his name is going to be tarred with being the prime minister who started the dissolution of the United Kingdom.
Analemma_ 10y ago
Normally I would agree with you and say that "worst leader ever" statements are hyperbolic when the leader is still in office, but this time I think it's appropriate. The United Kingdom is probably going to ultimately dissolve as a result of this vote, and Cameron is going to be remembered as the moron who let it happen, all because of a catastrophically failed gambit to pander to the Ukip-leaning Tories. "Worst leader ever" seems apt when you directly caused a nation's end.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  That's rather ... Chicken Littlish. The people voted. Let's see what the people can do now.
- Yhippa 10y ago
  What I don't understand is that isn't this what the people wanted? Across the pond it sounds like he tried to call someone's (pro-Brexit) bluff and lost. At the end of the day it sounds like this is what the people wanted though. I'm not seeing a lot of news about how the pro-Brexit people feel about the dissolution of the UK. Surely they knew this was an outcome.
  - Analemma_ 10y ago
    > I'm not seeing a lot of news about how the pro-Brexit people feel about the dissolution of the UK. Surely they knew this was an outcome. Want to know something darkly amusing? It's possible that they didn't. This is still anecdotal at this point, and of course the Remain side could be playing it up, but there are reports that at least some Leave voters intended it as a protest vote thinking it wouldn't actually happen: https://twitter.com/AdamWSweeney/status/746261907233988609 https://twitter.com/AdamWSweeney/status/746261907233988609 How wonderful would that be, if the biggest blunder in Britain's history happened unintentionally because some people wanted to stick it to their council. I need to go drink some more.

Grishnakh 10y ago

In defense of the Boaty McBoatface incident, that was not democracy by a long shot. That was an internet poll, not any kind of official vote. It was a poll of people who actually knew about it, and bothered to get online and vote about it. That's nothing at all like a proper election where there are proper ballots (though a lot of government elections these days lack those too, but that's another discussion...), voters are notified, there's independent monitors, etc. I don't think you can call the BMbB name "the will of the voters" in any intellectually honest way. If it had been made a ballot proposition during a regular election, then sure. But not with some silly internet poll.

vacri 10y ago

> if he let the people decide on such a super topic as leave/remain in the EU To reiterate what al_chemist has already said, the price for UKIP supporting the Tories to form government was holding this referendum. It wasn't a lark on the part of the Tories. Not even Farage thought UKIP would win - the BBC had quoted him stating they weren't going to win on the morning of the vote.

Tloewald 10y ago

A vote that causes an instant 5-8% downgrade in the market's evaluation of pretty much an entire country is something that affects people's daily lives, unfortunately. (I guess it's similar in scope to electing George W. Bush, but it was not clear how bad a decision this was for a couple of years.) Before the vote, the consensus estimate by economists was that this would be a 2% hit to GDP. Again, that affects people's daily lives -- it's essentially a self-inflicted recession.

limeyx 10y ago

Yeah he's a nasty weasly only likely marginally better than Bliar. I still think this is going to be a bad move. Yes Europe is very very broken but I think better to try to fix it than go it alone

dredmorbius 10y ago

"Peace in our time." -- Neville Chamberlain