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One simple way this could really help is just in naming. Tesla Energy is sure to turn more heads than SolarCity as Tesla is a household name now that people gen

One simple way this could really help is just in naming. Tesla Energy is sure to turn more heads than SolarCity as Tesla is a household name now that people generally have good associations with. SolarCity always sounded a bit generic.

matt_wulfeck 10y ago
People don't spend a billion dollars to rename a company.
- marricks 10y ago
  Course not. There's the obvious integration of batteries and use for batteries here to. Not to mention what others said that one of this companies is a bit more volatile and the other more established. I'm just pointing out one simple benefit.
massysett 10y ago
Where is Tesla a household name? I never have any exposure to Tesla other than on Reddit and HN. Even now I know little about the company and my main thought is "some new company making electric cars that sound expensive, have unknown longevity, unknown reliability, and unknown depreciation, and will be hard to service." On the other hand, Solar City reps harangue me to buy their product every time I go to Home Depot, and I see their trucks all over the road. I have no favorable impression of them either--I think "if solar is so great, why isn't my utility doing it, and why would I sign a long-term contract with some dude who hangs out at Home Depot and harasses people." But I don't see "Tesla Energy" having some kind of excellent brand equity.
- kbenson 10y ago
  > if solar is so great, why isn't my utility doing it For the same reason many market incumbents find themselves unable to innovate. It eats away their existing revenue streams or erodes the value of their current strategy. If you've invested heavily in non-solar energy infrastructure and that's the majority of the market, you can either invest in solar and add it to the mix, in which case new demand may fall on it, but it's likely to also start eating your existing demand (there are renewable energy source mandates), or you can fight it and try to maximize your profits on what you have. One is a long term strategy, and one is a short term strategy, but not all companies (boards, shareholders) are focused on long term. e.g. If Linux/UNIX is so great, why didn't Microsoft create a distro (a decade or two ago)? Or, if free software is so great, why don't Microsoft start giving away their software? Because, it makes them less money. It has nothing to do with what's better for the customers (presupposing either of those are better, for the sake of argument).
  - Reason077 10y ago
    If Linux/UNIX is so great, why didn't Microsoft create a distro (a decade or two ago)? Actually, they did! Xenix was Microsoft's Unix distro, licensed and derived from AT&T's System V source. During the late 1980s it was the most popular Unix variety of all, measured by number of installations.
    - kbenson 10y ago
      That makes complete sense, as when it was available it wasn't in competition with DOS, and once they started doing more multi-user stuff, it was (mostly) abandoned.
- rconti 10y ago
  Tesla is a household name among everyone I know up and down the West Coast, and among every single car or motorcycle enthusiast I know. But then, both your comments about Tesla and SolarCity seem to be feigning ignorance as a way to disguise your denigration. Hint: Solar (on-prem) is a way to deprive your electricity company of revenue, which is why they're not doing it. Of course, they use it as some component of their electricity mix, and then bill you for it.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    Utilities are under constant pressure to provision capacity to meet rising electric demand. If the on-premises Solar City model (front the cost of the system and installation in exchange for being able to sell the electricity produced) was proven they would be doing it. Building new generating capacity is hugely expensive and almost always a major political battle to get approved. Many utilities are investing heavily in utility-scale solar and wind installations. But the reality is that on-premises solar is still a gamble. Nobody is yet making money at it, quite the contrary.
    - TheSmiddy 10y ago
      No, they're under pressure to protect their coal supply line. They know that they have to move to renewables soon and eventually coal power generation will be banned, so they're trying to burn as much of their stocks as they can before the stuff in the ground becomes worthless.
    - djrogers 10y ago
      > If the on-premises Solar City model (front the cost of the system and installation in exchange for being able to sell the electricity produced) was proven they would be doing it. No - this completely ignores the way the electric grid, generation, and distribution work. Just because 'utility solar' is more efficient for large scale generation, that doesn't mean it doesn't also make sense for individuals to be able to produce their own electricity. My solar system has a break even point of 5.9 years - in another 3.4 years I will be pocketing several thousand dollars per year that would otherwise be going to PG&E. Doesn't sound like a gamble to me.
- marricks 10y ago
  Almost half a million people pre-ordered the model 3 so the brand definitely has some awareness and clout. Sure, those aren't assured buyers, but they are people willing to put down 1k for a car reservation. The amount of people who are still interested in Tesla beyond purchasing a car in the near future is some degree larger than that. That sort of following and interest can help Solar get more well known, and not to mention further integration with Tesla can quicken drivers along to SolarCity products. Not to mention, everyone I know has heard of Tesla. You must have interesting friends!
- the_watcher 10y ago
  What? I've lived in the Bay Area, the midwest, Texas, and Los Angeles, and have seen Tesla's daily almost every day, yet have legitimately never spoken to anyone who has ever even worked with SolarCity
  - Vik1ng 10y ago
    Just because you see Teslas and recognize them doesn't mean others do. Also California is Tesla's home turf, not really a good example for the country or the whole addressable market.
    - the_watcher 10y ago
      The point wasn't that I recognize Tesla's, but that Tesla's are a part of daily life in numerous places (see that 50% of the locations I mentioned are not, in fact, in California), whereas I have never interacted with SolarCity nor anyone else who has interacted with them. The point is that it's a very, very reasonable assumption that Tesla is more likely to be known by the average person than SolarCity.
      - hueving 10y ago
        >The point wasn't that I recognize Tesla's, >The point is that it's a very, very reasonable assumption that Tesla is more likely to be known by the average person than SolarCity. These two things contradict each other. Why would Tesla be known by people that cannot recognize Teslas?
        cynix 10y ago
        > These two things contradict each other. Why would Tesla be known by people that cannot recognize Teslas? It's not necessarily contradictory. I know Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, etc are luxury sports car brands. But if one drives past me on the road, I probably won't recognise them.
        mbrameld 10y ago
        I'm very familiar with Tesla from simply reading online. Mostly HN, but they are often mentioned on mainstream news sites too. I could recognize a Tesla car in the wild if I was able to read the word "Tesla" on it somewhere, but from say 20 feet away looking at the side I'd have no clue what make it was.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  > Where is Tesla a household name? https://twitter.com/katyperry/status/444228348319784960 https://twitter.com/katyperry/status/444228348319784960
  - chc 10y ago
    Worth noting: Katy Perry has more Twitter followers than anybody else in the world. If that's not mainstream, I don't know what is.
    - charlesdm 10y ago
      Whoa, nearly 90 million followers. That's nuts. Pretty impressive.
    - fidget 10y ago
      So that's why Clinton's winning...
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        Color me shocked. I would've though it was the DNC colluding with her campaign.
- barney54 10y ago
  The kids (at least teenagers) dig Tesla. A friend of mine owns one and the teenagers are church are always wrangling for rides.
- carlosdp 10y ago
  Lots more people pay attention to cars than tech. Those people all know the nice Teslas they see all around cities.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    In my life, I have seen two Teslas directly. One is owned by a person I know. I've seen one other "in the wild." I don't think the Model S is very distinctive so I may have missed more in my peripheral vision. The Roadster was much more of a head-turner. I have seen more McLarens, Lamborghinis, and Ferraris than I have Teslas. I live in an area of about 100K population.
- paulsutter 10y ago
  The 400,000 people pre-ordering Model 3s have plenty of confidence in the Tesla brand. That would not happen with a new or unknown brand.
- bfung 10y ago
  > "if solar is so great, why isn't my utility doing it..." Depends on your utility, some are: http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/solar/choice/index.page?WT.mc_id=Vanity_solarchoice http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/solar/choice/in...
- adventured 10y ago
  Pretty much every average person I can think of (average in the sense of their media consumption or general awareness of what's new / hip / interesting), is aware of Tesla cars at this point. They've been constantly in the mass media news for years now. Everyone knows they make electric cars. They're absolutely a household name now.
- smsm42 10y ago
  > if solar is so great, why isn't my utility doing it, SolarCity doesn't do utility-scale solar, it does house-scale solar, and those are entirely different models. Also, business model of SolarCity is closely tied to the price structure of utilities, at least in California. These prices are structured - the lowest tier is relatively cheap, but it won't be enough, especially if you use AC or heating. Second tier is more expensive, next one yet more, and the fourth one is about twice as expensive as the first. SolarCity's pioneering idea - PPA - makes you put their solar panel on your property, and pay them for electricity instead of utility. In exchange of which you pay for all the electricity according to tier 1. Which is substantially cheaper. This model has little to do with generation on utility scale. BTW, never seen them in Home Depot around here. They must be using some other tactics in these areas, or maybe just haven't made friends with local HD.
- imtringued 10y ago
  >Even now I know little about the company and my main thought is "some new company making electric cars that sound expensive, have unknown longevity, unknown reliability, and unknown depreciation, and will be hard to service." It's not a new company. Tesla was founded 13 years ago. The same complaint can be made about new models of existing car comapnies. You didn't even attempt to research these things so of course they are unknown to you. That's a tautology. I don't know every car brand on the planet but I don't blame them for my own ignorance. Most electric cars are rapidly depreciating in value. Usually they only sell for 20% of their original value after three years. Tesla cars usually keep 70% of their value. In 2013 you could even turn a profit by reselling a brand new tesla youbecause of their high demand but low supply. https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/remember-when-your-used-tesla-s-was-worth-more-when-you-bought-it https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/remember-when-yo...
  - massysett 10y ago
    It doesn't matter whether I researched it or not. I was responding to someone who suggested Tesla is a household name. Being a household name doesn't come from people researching the brand. Coca Cola is a household name, and it's not because people researched them. Similarly Honda is known for having reliable cars. That's not due to people doing tons of research. Tesla may be the best thing ever. All I am saying is that they do not have some enormous reservoir of brand equity.
matchagaucho 10y ago
Did solar panel company Miasole ever recover from the branding of "My Ass Hole"? http://www.fakesteve.net/2007/05/john-doerrs-my-asshole-company-is.html http://www.fakesteve.net/2007/05/john-doerrs-my-asshole-comp...
loceng 10y ago
I prefer SolarCity. It mentions the source of the energy and it highlights the idea of a city, and therefore a city powered by the sun. I don't think branding can get any better than that, with Tesla being the umbrella company name - it's perfect.
peter303 10y ago
An unsustainable business will fail no matter the name. I am not sure why Solar loses so much. Physical stuff (atoms) businesses are different character than software (bits) as Negrpronte would say. Elon is much smarter than me and knows these issues.

matt_wulfeck 10y ago

People don't spend a billion dollars to rename a company.

marricks 10y ago
Course not. There's the obvious integration of batteries and use for batteries here to. Not to mention what others said that one of this companies is a bit more volatile and the other more established. I'm just pointing out one simple benefit.

massysett 10y ago

Where is Tesla a household name? I never have any exposure to Tesla other than on Reddit and HN. Even now I know little about the company and my main thought is "some new company making electric cars that sound expensive, have unknown longevity, unknown reliability, and unknown depreciation, and will be hard to service." On the other hand, Solar City reps harangue me to buy their product every time I go to Home Depot, and I see their trucks all over the road. I have no favorable impression of them either--I think "if solar is so great, why isn't my utility doing it, and why would I sign a long-term contract with some dude who hangs out at Home Depot and harasses people." But I don't see "Tesla Energy" having some kind of excellent brand equity.

kbenson 10y ago
> if solar is so great, why isn't my utility doing it For the same reason many market incumbents find themselves unable to innovate. It eats away their existing revenue streams or erodes the value of their current strategy. If you've invested heavily in non-solar energy infrastructure and that's the majority of the market, you can either invest in solar and add it to the mix, in which case new demand may fall on it, but it's likely to also start eating your existing demand (there are renewable energy source mandates), or you can fight it and try to maximize your profits on what you have. One is a long term strategy, and one is a short term strategy, but not all companies (boards, shareholders) are focused on long term. e.g. If Linux/UNIX is so great, why didn't Microsoft create a distro (a decade or two ago)? Or, if free software is so great, why don't Microsoft start giving away their software? Because, it makes them less money. It has nothing to do with what's better for the customers (presupposing either of those are better, for the sake of argument).
- Reason077 10y ago
  If Linux/UNIX is so great, why didn't Microsoft create a distro (a decade or two ago)? Actually, they did! Xenix was Microsoft's Unix distro, licensed and derived from AT&T's System V source. During the late 1980s it was the most popular Unix variety of all, measured by number of installations.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    That makes complete sense, as when it was available it wasn't in competition with DOS, and once they started doing more multi-user stuff, it was (mostly) abandoned.
rconti 10y ago
Tesla is a household name among everyone I know up and down the West Coast, and among every single car or motorcycle enthusiast I know. But then, both your comments about Tesla and SolarCity seem to be feigning ignorance as a way to disguise your denigration. Hint: Solar (on-prem) is a way to deprive your electricity company of revenue, which is why they're not doing it. Of course, they use it as some component of their electricity mix, and then bill you for it.
- ams6110 10y ago
  Utilities are under constant pressure to provision capacity to meet rising electric demand. If the on-premises Solar City model (front the cost of the system and installation in exchange for being able to sell the electricity produced) was proven they would be doing it. Building new generating capacity is hugely expensive and almost always a major political battle to get approved. Many utilities are investing heavily in utility-scale solar and wind installations. But the reality is that on-premises solar is still a gamble. Nobody is yet making money at it, quite the contrary.
  - TheSmiddy 10y ago
    No, they're under pressure to protect their coal supply line. They know that they have to move to renewables soon and eventually coal power generation will be banned, so they're trying to burn as much of their stocks as they can before the stuff in the ground becomes worthless.
  - djrogers 10y ago
    > If the on-premises Solar City model (front the cost of the system and installation in exchange for being able to sell the electricity produced) was proven they would be doing it. No - this completely ignores the way the electric grid, generation, and distribution work. Just because 'utility solar' is more efficient for large scale generation, that doesn't mean it doesn't also make sense for individuals to be able to produce their own electricity. My solar system has a break even point of 5.9 years - in another 3.4 years I will be pocketing several thousand dollars per year that would otherwise be going to PG&E. Doesn't sound like a gamble to me.
marricks 10y ago
Almost half a million people pre-ordered the model 3 so the brand definitely has some awareness and clout. Sure, those aren't assured buyers, but they are people willing to put down 1k for a car reservation. The amount of people who are still interested in Tesla beyond purchasing a car in the near future is some degree larger than that. That sort of following and interest can help Solar get more well known, and not to mention further integration with Tesla can quicken drivers along to SolarCity products. Not to mention, everyone I know has heard of Tesla. You must have interesting friends!
the_watcher 10y ago
What? I've lived in the Bay Area, the midwest, Texas, and Los Angeles, and have seen Tesla's daily almost every day, yet have legitimately never spoken to anyone who has ever even worked with SolarCity
- Vik1ng 10y ago
  Just because you see Teslas and recognize them doesn't mean others do. Also California is Tesla's home turf, not really a good example for the country or the whole addressable market.
  - the_watcher 10y ago
    The point wasn't that I recognize Tesla's, but that Tesla's are a part of daily life in numerous places (see that 50% of the locations I mentioned are not, in fact, in California), whereas I have never interacted with SolarCity nor anyone else who has interacted with them. The point is that it's a very, very reasonable assumption that Tesla is more likely to be known by the average person than SolarCity.
    - hueving 10y ago
      >The point wasn't that I recognize Tesla's, >The point is that it's a very, very reasonable assumption that Tesla is more likely to be known by the average person than SolarCity. These two things contradict each other. Why would Tesla be known by people that cannot recognize Teslas?
      - cynix 10y ago
        > These two things contradict each other. Why would Tesla be known by people that cannot recognize Teslas? It's not necessarily contradictory. I know Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, etc are luxury sports car brands. But if one drives past me on the road, I probably won't recognise them.
      - mbrameld 10y ago
        I'm very familiar with Tesla from simply reading online. Mostly HN, but they are often mentioned on mainstream news sites too. I could recognize a Tesla car in the wild if I was able to read the word "Tesla" on it somewhere, but from say 20 feet away looking at the side I'd have no clue what make it was.
toomuchtodo 10y ago
> Where is Tesla a household name? https://twitter.com/katyperry/status/444228348319784960 https://twitter.com/katyperry/status/444228348319784960
- chc 10y ago
  Worth noting: Katy Perry has more Twitter followers than anybody else in the world. If that's not mainstream, I don't know what is.
  - charlesdm 10y ago
    Whoa, nearly 90 million followers. That's nuts. Pretty impressive.
  - fidget 10y ago
    So that's why Clinton's winning...
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      Color me shocked. I would've though it was the DNC colluding with her campaign.
barney54 10y ago
The kids (at least teenagers) dig Tesla. A friend of mine owns one and the teenagers are church are always wrangling for rides.
carlosdp 10y ago
Lots more people pay attention to cars than tech. Those people all know the nice Teslas they see all around cities.
- ams6110 10y ago
  In my life, I have seen two Teslas directly. One is owned by a person I know. I've seen one other "in the wild." I don't think the Model S is very distinctive so I may have missed more in my peripheral vision. The Roadster was much more of a head-turner. I have seen more McLarens, Lamborghinis, and Ferraris than I have Teslas. I live in an area of about 100K population.
paulsutter 10y ago
The 400,000 people pre-ordering Model 3s have plenty of confidence in the Tesla brand. That would not happen with a new or unknown brand.
bfung 10y ago
> "if solar is so great, why isn't my utility doing it..." Depends on your utility, some are: http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/solar/choice/index.page?WT.mc_id=Vanity_solarchoice http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/solar/choice/in...
adventured 10y ago
Pretty much every average person I can think of (average in the sense of their media consumption or general awareness of what's new / hip / interesting), is aware of Tesla cars at this point. They've been constantly in the mass media news for years now. Everyone knows they make electric cars. They're absolutely a household name now.
smsm42 10y ago
> if solar is so great, why isn't my utility doing it, SolarCity doesn't do utility-scale solar, it does house-scale solar, and those are entirely different models. Also, business model of SolarCity is closely tied to the price structure of utilities, at least in California. These prices are structured - the lowest tier is relatively cheap, but it won't be enough, especially if you use AC or heating. Second tier is more expensive, next one yet more, and the fourth one is about twice as expensive as the first. SolarCity's pioneering idea - PPA - makes you put their solar panel on your property, and pay them for electricity instead of utility. In exchange of which you pay for all the electricity according to tier 1. Which is substantially cheaper. This model has little to do with generation on utility scale. BTW, never seen them in Home Depot around here. They must be using some other tactics in these areas, or maybe just haven't made friends with local HD.
imtringued 10y ago
>Even now I know little about the company and my main thought is "some new company making electric cars that sound expensive, have unknown longevity, unknown reliability, and unknown depreciation, and will be hard to service." It's not a new company. Tesla was founded 13 years ago. The same complaint can be made about new models of existing car comapnies. You didn't even attempt to research these things so of course they are unknown to you. That's a tautology. I don't know every car brand on the planet but I don't blame them for my own ignorance. Most electric cars are rapidly depreciating in value. Usually they only sell for 20% of their original value after three years. Tesla cars usually keep 70% of their value. In 2013 you could even turn a profit by reselling a brand new tesla youbecause of their high demand but low supply. https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/remember-when-your-used-tesla-s-was-worth-more-when-you-bought-it https://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/remember-when-yo...
- massysett 10y ago
  It doesn't matter whether I researched it or not. I was responding to someone who suggested Tesla is a household name. Being a household name doesn't come from people researching the brand. Coca Cola is a household name, and it's not because people researched them. Similarly Honda is known for having reliable cars. That's not due to people doing tons of research. Tesla may be the best thing ever. All I am saying is that they do not have some enormous reservoir of brand equity.

matchagaucho 10y ago

Did solar panel company Miasole ever recover from the branding of "My Ass Hole"? http://www.fakesteve.net/2007/05/john-doerrs-my-asshole-company-is.html http://www.fakesteve.net/2007/05/john-doerrs-my-asshole-comp...

loceng 10y ago

I prefer SolarCity. It mentions the source of the energy and it highlights the idea of a city, and therefore a city powered by the sun. I don't think branding can get any better than that, with Tesla being the umbrella company name - it's perfect.

peter303 10y ago

An unsustainable business will fail no matter the name. I am not sure why Solar loses so much. Physical stuff (atoms) businesses are different character than software (bits) as Negrpronte would say. Elon is much smarter than me and knows these issues.