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Ask HN: 10 years in software development and can't move the needle anymore

• kasey_junk 10y ago
  See a competent mental health professional.
  • partisan 10y ago
    Given your thoughts of suicide, however unlikely they may seem, I believe this is the only correct answer. You aren't just having issues at work if you are thinking yourself down that path, even in the slightest. Also, see someone now. Things like this can snowball and it's a lot easier to become you again when you are a little depressed than when you are very depressed. Take care.
    • throwaway103 10y ago
      The urge to commit suicide is not strong, it's an amusing thought that crosses the mind. I am highly unlikely to do it because I would rather kill myself for a cause than committing suicide, like getting into military and killing some terrorists. Seems I might have a hero complex :) So I won't go down and out silently.
  • throwaway103 10y ago
    Thanks. I have an appointment with a professional next week. Hopefully he will be able to help.
• MarlonPro 10y ago
  Please talk to your loved ones. Like the other said, please seek professional help. You're still young. You can still do a lot of things. Search for meaning. Start with your Why.
  • throwaway103 10y ago
    I have asked the WHY. I have been quite ambitious since my childhood. I have had grand plans to be a neuro-surgeon, but it failed, then I wanted to be a physicist, but couldn't, then I loved programming and made it into a career. I love everything about it, but I am not as good as I would like to be. My ambitions sometimes hurt me. I wonder at how Elon Musk, Richard Branson and Bill Gates do it, and how I can't. It's quite infuriating. Thanks for your kind words.
    • lgieron 10y ago
      > programming (...) I love everything about it, but I am not as good as I would like to be. I wonder at how Elon Musk, Richard Branson and Bill Gates do it, and how I can't. For one thing, you're probably way better programmer than Richard Branson is :) On a more serious note: not everyone is wired for a massive success - for example, not everyone is capable of consistently working 100 hours per week (like Musk). Also, even if you are (I have a friend who could probably beat Musk in an iron man-style workaholic marathon) massive success in business is still mostly down to luck, which is another factor (apart from genetics) that you can't control. In the grand scheme of things, it's far better to accept who you are and be happy about the good things than be butt-hurt about not being a billionaire.
      • AndreyErmakov 10y ago
        That last part is truly a good advice. Striving to become somebody one is not meant to be is only going to make one profoundly unhappy in life. What's worse, one will probably be wasting their potential given by the universe by refusing to do things one is meant to do. Being at the wrong place in life and not accomplishing anything by the end of the road will only make a negative personal contribution to the human civilization (in the grand scheme of things).
• sharmi 10y ago
  As others have suggested, you might benefit from a professional's advice. Besides that, maybe this is a burnout? If so, there have been several threads on how to tackle it on Ask HN. Maybe some of them can help. If it is burnout, one of the best ways to tackle it is to take a hobby in a field completely unrelated to tech. It should be something in which you can see tangible results/finished item in a few hours of work. That can help you calm your nerves, give you the euphoria of having a completed project on hand and serve as a good diversion in general. Breaking the constant worry about the current career and focusing on something completely unrelated might also yield a breakthrough insight on what you actually want from your current career, which you can translate to actionables.
  • afarrell 10y ago
    Do you know of a good way to find a professional who works with programmers and sysadmins in particular?
    • sharmi 10y ago
      I am sorry, I don't. Actually I am not in the same country as you are and so any recommendation will be useless. Maybe, you can start a Ask HN with this specific question. Introverted as we techies maybe, I find that the people here are very supportive of those who need help, as we all have to pass that phase at one point of time or the other.
    • throwaway103 10y ago
      Absolutely, if not here at HN, there are multiple subreddits at reddit.com that will help you find some contacts that are local to you. Please PM me if you need help with it.
      • afarrell 10y ago
        > multiple subreddits Which ones? You're on your throwaway account, so I can't PM you. However, I actually think this is the sort of resource that should be publicly known to the HN community. Given the high frequency with which we talk about mental health in software, we should have a ready set of recommendations. I am planning on starting a thread about it, so if you'd be able to PM me (my email is in my profile), that would be of use.
• threesixandnine 10y ago
  I have an advice for you. 1. Go and build a telescope - https://stellafane.org/tm/atm/ https://stellafane.org/tm/atm/ It involves manual labor and thinking as well. Grind that mirror. Make sure you finish it and then go out and see the stars. 2. At your job do absolute minimum and go home as soon as it's possible. 3. Go out and do some charity work. By doing it you're not only helping others but helping yourself as well to feel better. It's kind of an egoistic thing as well but who cares.
  • throwaway103 10y ago
    That sounds quite cool! Thanks!
  • RUG3Y 10y ago
    This is good advice. I stopped trying to go above and beyond at work. Now, the rest of my time is spent doing projects I really care about. Since then, I: - Self-published an art book - Started a band - Started building a few software projects I've been interested in for a while - Spent more time with my kids goofing around, consciously trying to lighten up and have fun
• tmaly 10y ago
  Pick something up that can get your mind off things. Start hiking, plant a garden, take up wood working, learn meditation. I find it nice to take a break from coding. If you really like programming, but are not thrilled with the tech or projects at work, pick a side project you can do outside of work that will let you grow and learn.
  • sharmi 10y ago
    I doubt side project is the right thing at this point in time, unless it is something you can complete in a day. It looks like the OP needs to be away from his computer and side projects that don't work out can be more frustrating than your daily job and may cause OP to spiral further into depression.
  • throwaway103 10y ago
    I have picked up meditation and gyming. They add a temporary respite, but the excitement of going to work is eclipsed by the anxiety of making a big difference.
• meric 10y ago
  Quit. Screw programming. Screw being a tech lead. Screw managing products. Screw moving the needle. Screw trying to be competent and/or being effective. Screw trying to figure out how to continue working. Screw retirement. Screw finding interest and meaning in life. Screw this anxiety. Screw trying to do justice to things. Screw figuring out what's going on. Screw figuring out what you should or shouldn't do. Screw worrying how much money you have and how long that will last you. Your anxiety tells me you don't want to worry about things, but you do. So don't. Screw it all. Pack your things. Fly to another random place on Earth. Roll a dice if you have to. Figure it out from there. Your only mission - screw the rest of the world and enjoy yourself. If you are anxious about permission. Here, I give it to you. Here's a piece of advice I tell myself every time I feel like you do: "Forget all preconceptions. About myself, about the world. Just wing it. If everything falls about, let it fall apart. Screw it. I'm a man, I'll live. Fun. Remember, fun." You don't want to kill yourself. You want to kill your idea of who you are. Let the idea of you die, but you? You live and go on living.
  • throwaway103 10y ago
    That's a bit radical, given my risk appetite. It will take energy equal to splitting the nucleus of an atom to make me do it. I am not sure if I'll be able to. But if could I will definitely. Thanks for your kind words.
  • seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    OP might have a family to take care of. Saying "screw it" is a luxury that many of us don't have. Personally, this sounds like the black dog of depression to me. Modifying your environment and work position may or may not help. My advise is to maybe try some professional counseling first so OP can get some help in working it out.
    • meric 10y ago
      Yeah, it sounds a bit extreme - but the point is once we're let go of everything, we get a clear idea of what needs doing, and what we need to leave behind. Last time I did it I figured out what I wanted to do in two days. The table's a mess. We're having a hard time figure out how to rearrange it. So, the "stranger" tells you to tip it all on the floor, you, not sure what happens when you do it, does it, and after a few moments, whatever we really need back on the table, we will pick it up, despite what the "stranger" says. We end up with what we really want, and everything else on the floor. Sometimes family is really hurting ourselves, and it can be a wise choice to screw them and leave. A close relative of mine killed himself after years of emotional abuse from his mother. That's stuff that's happened to me before, and if, to survive, I have to leave whoever it is to sink or swim, then screw them. My survival and sanity is of prime importance. Sometimes, taking care of family is a luxury we can't afford.
• sidcool 10y ago
  Sometimes it's a down period in life. You can take a break for a month or so and travel. Just go away. Learn something else. @meric's advice, however extreme, can be applied in partial. Think hard.
• throwaway103 10y ago
  Also, are there any other threads where people have asked similar questions? I have searched HN and found a few, but if you know of any, please do share.
  • zzzcpan 10y ago
    Search for burnout. People ask these questions pretty regularly here.
• AndreyErmakov 10y ago
  It is a distinct possibility that you are suffering from the lack of meaningful personal achievements in your vocation of choice, which your subconsciousness recently began to realize and which is why it started poking you to do something about it. Normally, this sort of things starts to happen exactly in one's 30s. Here's a thing that many (if not most) people working in IT don't realize. Practical software development is actually a creative profession. It's not pure science, it's not plain engineering (even if it has the elements of both), it's mostly a design discipline where outcome directly correlates with the skills and the personality of the human(s) involved. People who enter this field are often enthusiasts, tinkerers, inventors, in a sense artists. They like to create things with their own hands, things that do something interesting, meaningful and useful, and when they succeed then they get happy all around and their life becomes full of meaning and purpose. It happens to be true for most creative professions, you cannot just practice it as a routine, as a job, it has to be giving your life a meaning and the sense of accomplishment. However, doing software development as a job does not help you advance on that path. You may have had a formally successful career, as you say you started as a simple programmer, moved up and eventually you reached a leadership position, but apparently that did not fill your life with meaning. I have no doubt that in your time you've completed multiple projects, implemented numerous features, solved important problems of your customers and so on. But the trouble is, those were all someone else's goals and other people's objectives. Despite that in the process you probably contributed many useful ideas and had personal input which directed and influenced the work, you only did the bidding of others. You solved the problems and built the things with which you cannot personally identify. Now you look back at your career and you recognize that for a lot of effort you've put in you have no tangible achievements made by your hands that you can be proud of. You need to see something for the work of your life, your legacy if you will, something to leave for the posterity, for the world, but you see nothing of that sort. And that's the root of the problem. Here's what you say: >> It just seems meaningless to continue working. >> Life has seemed to lost meaning and interest. It feels like yours is exactly the kind of problem I'm talking about. I might of course be wrong about you, this is not the ultimate diagnosis of any kind, but from what little information you've given us, I think this might be it. It would be helpful if you gave us more context and more details about your situation, otherwise it's not easy to figure out what you're going through. As to what might be the remedy, it all depends. If you really love software engineering and feel it's your calling in life, then you should start looking for ways to use your skills and competences to do something that in your mind would be meaningful. It might be a side project or even a small startup of your own. You have not mentioned any of those therefore I assume you have none. You might consider one now. But it must not be a dummy project to simply have a project of your own or to dive into a new technology to have a sense of novelty. Those won't help. It's not about tools or the process (both of which you've mastered), it's all about the personal achievements (which you supposedly lack). You should think of something which would contribute in some useful way to the society, to solving real problems of real people, to making their lives easier, not about adding more forms and more rules to some boring enterprise software or fixing bugs in some opensource project. You need to go higher and it must be all yours, the entire pie not just some crumbs of it. You may also want to explore another career path. If you have an inclination towards some other line of work, perhaps design or photography, you may consider giving it a go as an experiment and seeing how it works out for you. Personally, I've discovered that writing provides a quality diversion for me and is turning into a real passion. You too may have some buried talents which might benefit from your technical background. It's possible to use your knowledge of software engineering to give a major boost to your other abilities and make a difference on that alternative path. I hope this helps you in your search for answers. Of course I might be mistaken about your condition and there might be something else that is happening with you. You are well advised to seek counselling assistance to help you out of the woods. Good luck and hold on. Don't take any radical actions before figuring out exactly what's been going on with you, or you may acquire additional troubles to your misfortune. Wait till the sky clears and only then begin considering where to go next.
• emilburzo 10y ago
  I won't try to diagnose you over the internet from 3 paragraphs. But please try and take care of the 3 essentials: * eat * sleep * exercise It might not solve what you're feeling, but if those are taken care of at least somewhat properly, you'll buy yourself more time to figure out what's happening.
  • throwaway103 10y ago
    Yep, that's the bare basic I am trying to do, and it's helping in a very limited way.
• b3b0p 10y ago
  You have to make an effort to find something that excites you or you look forward to. Preferably on a regular basis, daily would be the ultimate goal. Just think, waking up to something you look forward to every day! Jumping out of bed every morning, looking forward to the day. What do you like to do? Do you have any previous hobbies? Start a side project (that you can finish) and look forward to working on after work. Join an online game community (Team Fortress, Overwatch, Call of Duty, etc). Don't like games, what about a book or movie club? Do you have any recreational sports leagues you can join? I used to play ice hockey, but wouldn't mind joining a roller hockey league where I am (Austin) or maybe flag football or kickball even. Is there something you want to do or experiment? I've always wanted to build something with Lego Mindstorms and program it myself. When was the last time you went to a meet up or hung out with some friends? When were happiest? What were you doing? Who were you with? Is there anything you can do at work to make it more enjoyable? Can you ask to be moved to another department? Take on new or different challenges? Do you feel challenged at work? Can you tell someone you want to try something new? Maybe just try and take things less serious. Don't be so defensive and perfect about life. Have some fun and relax. Do you like comics, movies, anime, books (fiction), video games? Maybe you can try one and experiment. For me, I want to go back and try and play and beat all the old NES and Genesis games I never finished as a kid because I was too impatient. These are just random ideas. For example, I have a backlog of video games, anime, comics, and side projects. I also have just found a new friend and we already made plans to go out. I'm moving into a new apartment that's an upgrade from my current and it has Google Fiber, I'm super excited for that. My parents are bringing me a couch and TV in a month too and I look forward to sitting in something besides my bed or desk chair. Not to mention look forward to seeing them for the first time in a year. I'm joining a new gym and look forward to meeting and seeing new people there as well as partaking in a class or two for fun, it's a good way to meet other people. I try and attend meet ups when nothing else is keeping me busy or I'm bored. Bottom line, you have to try and stay busy and you have to make the effort. It requires work if you aren't use to it. You can't dwell on the negatives like you seem to be doing. Good luck, I hope I sparked some ideas for you.
• RUG3Y 10y ago
  I had a similar crisis recently. I was feeling really incompetent. I realized that there are other things in my life that are important to me that I've been neglecting. Side projects, music, what have you. Work is just work, and I allowed myself to invest too much self-worth into the situation. I don't know if this is helpful to you, but it was helpful for me to take a step back from my job and realize that when I die, nobody is going to remember me for the great career that I had. If anyone does remember me, it will be because I was kind to them, or because I impacted their life in a meaningful way. Changing the priorities that I'm focused on helped me to feel a lot better about work and life in general. *edited grammar
• Zelmor 10y ago
  Find a hobby to fill the void in your days. Move countries if you can, and travel.