23 ms·

OS X is now macOS and gets support for Siri, auto unlock

512 points by tilt 10y ago

tdkl 10y ago
The "Optimized storage" made me laugh. How about making physical storage devices exchangeable again?
- mthoms 10y ago
  But that conflicts with the "Optimize revenue" directive.
muterad_murilax 10y ago
So, will it be macOS 10.12 or just macOS 12? I don't think they mentioned this during the presentation.
- cag_ii 10y ago
  I only heard them refer to it as "macOS Sierra".
protomyth 10y ago
I hope all the cloud storage can be turned off. Depending on your job (e.g. confidential data) or how much you pay for bandwidth, these are some really bad features.
- umanwizard 10y ago
  It's not like iOS where everything is locked down. You are root and can do anything you want on your machine. It should be pretty trivial to prevent the cloud storage stuff from running.
  - protomyth 10y ago
    I have to disable security by typing commands at a reboot to change system icons, so I'm not really root in the traditional sense on my Mac.
    - umanwizard 10y ago
      Unless they remove the ability to turn off SIP, you have full control over your machine. This is very different from iOS where you have to wait for some team of Chinese hackers to discover a security vulnerability in order to get access to your own device. Not sure why this is not "root in the traditional sense", unless you're in some environment where you don't have physical access to the machine and can't reboot for some reason.
      - protomyth 10y ago
        I meant with SIP, root is not the all powerful account it is traditionally. I'm also sick of the idea of disabling security to do simple things that shouldn't be covered by the security.
        umanwizard 10y ago
        You can be sick of that if you want, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the point I was making, which is that it should be possible to disable cloud storage on your Mac, since you can do anything on your own device. Whether you can do that with a reboot or not, whether you need to disable SIP, etc., isn't really germane to what I was talking about and I feel like you just wanted to take the opportunity to rant.
        protomyth 10y ago
        I don't think I should have to disable security to do things that are not security concerns. I also doubt the average user regards root as a solution. I am not hopeful given what was said during the prior beta, that disabling SIP will always be an option. > I feel like you just wanted to take the opportunity to rant. Was this line necessary?
  - baldfat 10y ago
    > You are root and can do anything you want on your machine. That was never my experience on an Apple device. Now my Linux boxes yes, but Apple and Windows no way. Especially with the Mac App Store and the user Interface being so locked down by Apple. Many things are hidden by Apple.
    - allemagne 10y ago
      What specifically have you tried to do on an OS X computer that you couldn't?
    - umanwizard 10y ago
      The only thing I have found that couldn't be done on an OS X device was run a custom kernel without breaking power management. Do you have any other examples of things that you can't do?
      - izacus 10y ago
        Can you modify system files and resign them so you can keep SIP working?
        umanwizard 10y ago
        Probably, if you boot the kernel with boot flags that tell it to accept any signature. I haven't tested this.
- mhurron 10y ago
  Ya that cloud storage thing needs to be able to be turned off for my personal use because I don't want that feature and for work otherwise I can never upgrade past 10.11 and will basically have to go back to a Windows machine when it comes time to replace my work machine. Apple Pay in Safari seems very interesting. I wish they had come up with something that would have worked with any browser as my personal primary machine is Linux, but I can probably upgrade my old macbook to use that.
  - facetube 10y ago
    There are also people who simply don't have access to sufficient bandwidth to make use of cloud storage. Forcing it on would make the OS and my internet connection useless to me.
- jlarocco 10y ago
  Those are not the only reasons to want the cloud features turned off. I don't want my phone and computer tied together, and it already annoys me how integrated the iPhone is to iTunes. I also don't want Apple cloud data storage. It's not a feature I need very often, and for the times I do, I have dropbox. I am not interested in having cloud storage integrated into the operating system like that. I will not be upgrading to this version until it has been verified that all of this crap can be turned off completely.
- macinjosh 10y ago
  You can turn them off in the setup process of macOS Sierra
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- matt4077 10y ago
  Why should it not be? It's been a single checkbox in settings since it was introduced.
WildUtah 10y ago
In OS X, the X is the tenth version of Mac OS. So this new version is now "Mac OS 10: macOS." Unless they bump the version number, that is. Then it would be "Mac OS 11: macOS."
- umanwizard 10y ago
  'X' could potentially also stand for Xnu or uniX.
xutopia 10y ago
Safari-tab? What do they mean?
- fname 10y ago
  Tabs across all windows, all apps.
  - facetube 10y ago
    BeOS lives.
- chrisseaton 10y ago
  The article doesn't contain the term 'Safari-tab'. It does have 'Safari-like tabs' in it, by which I would imagine they mean tabs, like you get in the Safari user interface.
  - isseu 10y ago
    what happens if the app already have tabs inside? Like sublime for example
    - chrisseaton 10y ago
      I don't know any more than you, mate.
    - Etheryte 10y ago
      They meant all apps made by Apple, not random apps, as far as I could tell.
      - isseu 10y ago
        I could be wrong but I think he said all apps without any developer changes..
      - rarepostinlurkr 10y ago
hnatt 10y ago
Funny thing, "macOS" (actually "мак ос" / "мак ось") was a slang name for OS X in Russian and Ukrainian languages all this time.
- cag_ii 10y ago
  Weren't all pre OS-X versions also called Mac OS?
  - wl 10y ago
    Up until recently, it was Mac OS X.
  - mhurron 10y ago
    Between versions 7 and 10 it was officially MacOS [VERSION], before that it was referred to as system [VERSION], as in System 6 and so on. That was not an official name, it was the version number of the file `system` and was simply the system that ran on a Mac, because there was only one. It got the official name MacOS when they allowed the selling of clones.
- umanwizard 10y ago
  We colloquially call it "Mac OS" in English too.
adamnemecek 10y ago
Does the fact that they didn't talk about UXKit mean that it's not happening?
- mikestew 10y ago
  Could be in the dev sessions. Seems to be that the keynote hasn't been direct at devs in quite a few years. So the stuff you, as a developer, care about won't be shown in the big show.
spitfire 10y ago
Will they update the unix layer? A lot of the CLI tools there are positively prehistoric. Maybe while they're at it they can add a real package manager too.
- bigdubs 10y ago
  https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-dupes https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-dupes is your friend.
  - peterbraden 10y ago
    Is there a way to replace all of them in one move?
    - rcthompson 10y ago
      Just install all the formulae from that repository, I'd assume. They all replace some system-provided tool. I believe they install the binaries to a separate directory that you need to prepend to your $PATH in order to get your shell to default to the updated versions.
    - zymhan 10y ago
      You can't really replace the underlying tools, you'd want to install the new versions in a different folder and update your Environment to point to those executables. EDIT: I'm wrong, didn't realize homebrew-dupes actually is meant to replace the OS X utils.
      - peterbraden 10y ago
        Why not replace? If there's a security flaw, I want those versions gone. EDIT: you edited :)
      - StevePerkins 10y ago
        So effectively, it's only one step better than installing Cygwin on a Windows machine? Can someone please remind me again why the MacBook is such a preffered machine for software development? For years I've been told, "You get a shell!", and "It's UNIX under the covers", etc. Except that the shell userspace is antiquated, and the UNIX flavor is BSD rather than Linux. Meaning that I'm just as out-of-sync with my target server as if I were on a Windows machine, I still have to run Docker through a VM layer, etc. Don't get me wrong, the hardware is excellant. But the software is even more locked-down and less customizable than the MS world... and just skipping the middle man and installing Linux directly is a 10x better developer experience than both.
reacharavindh 10y ago
Copy/paste across iPhone and Mac is very useful. All the other features are Meh. I really don't want to be that guy talking to my Mac at work. I can't be sure that all my questions to Siri are not awkward to speak out. Would have been great to have a textual interface though. You know that Keyboard thingy that is always with a Mac?!
- ebbv 10y ago
  Spotlight is already incredibly useful, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's getting some of these improvements. We should know soon since Developer Preview of Sierra should be available today.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    The definitely said it wont be available today.
    - trvrsalom 10y ago
      The developer previews will be available today, already have iOS 10 running on one device. http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/06/13/ios-10-watchos-3-macos-sierra-betas-will-debut-for-developers-today-public-testers-in-july http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/06/13/ios-10-watchos-3-m...
      - coldtea 10y ago
        For registered developers yes, the public beta is July though.
        ebbv 10y ago
        Well that's what I said: > Developer Preview of Sierra should be available today. Which you disagreed with. So, you were factually wrong.
- spilk 10y ago
hollander 10y ago
So the Mac is listening all the time. How can I physically disable the microphone?
- teamhappy 10y ago
  You can unplug it. I'm sure they'll allow you to disable Siri though (or maybe even disable the "hey Siri" crap and just use a button or something).
- jamornh 10y ago
  Looks like you have to press a button for it to start listening.
- pwenzel 10y ago
  I wonder if this will work similarly to pressing Fn twice to get to get the speech-to-text dialog in OSX.
- kylec 10y ago
  On the iPhone, the always-on "Hey Siri" activation is actually local on the device. You can test this out by activating Airplane Mode and saying "Hey Siri". The interface comes up, then says that you can't use Siri because you're offline. This means that Apple isn't listening to you 24/7, only when Siri is activated. Sure, sometimes it's activated accidentally and might overhear something you didn't want it to, but those times are pretty rare. If Apple introduces a "Hey Siri" feature on the Mac (which it's unclear about given the fact that in the demo Craig activated Siri by clicking on the icon, then later by pressing a key on the keyboard), I expect it would operate in the same way. Finally, I'm sure there's a software setting you can use to disable Siri if you really don't want it to be activated.
Philipp__ 10y ago
I hope there will be option to disable Siri. Don't want turned on mic 24/7.
- Etheryte 10y ago
  There's a sysconfig to turn off nearly everything in OS X if you're comfy with the CLI, I doubt Siri would be any different. It will probably be a usual GUI switch though, due to privacy laws.
  - Philipp__ 10y ago
    I know. Very familiar with CLI. I spwnd 80% of time on my MacBook in iTerm. :) I was pretty disappointed by this WWDC. Any info on next XCode version?
    - tjl 10y ago
      The beta for XCode 8 is up which includes Swift 3 and support for iOS 10. Before you decide you're disappointed, wait for the Developer State of the Union later today and the other sessions. There's interesting things like an "Apple File System" session. It looks like the beta for the file system will be in macOS Sierra and come out officially in 2017. You won't be able to use it as a boot drive (probably a safe precaution) and it has a few other restrictions, but it's a good start.
      - Philipp__ 10y ago
        Yeah I read about those, checked everything! Can't wait to learn more! :) Thanks anyway!
- kylec 10y ago
  On the iPhone, the always-on "Hey Siri" activation is actually local on the device. You can test this out by activating Airplane Mode and saying "Hey Siri". The interface comes up, then says that you can't use Siri because you're offline. This means that Apple isn't listening to you 24/7, only when Siri is activated. Sure, sometimes it's activated accidentally and might overhear something you didn't want it to, but those times are pretty rare. If Apple introduces a "Hey Siri" feature on the Mac (which it's unclear about given the fact that in the demo Craig activated Siri by clicking on the icon, then later by pressing a key on the keyboard), I expect it would operate in the same way. Finally, I'm sure there's a software setting you can use to disable Siri if you really don't want it to be activated.
houshuang 10y ago
Would be useful to be able to type to Siri in a public setting...
merb 10y ago
wow. what a great innovation. rename the damn thing and auto unlock. i hoped for new stuff. even a /bin/bash upgrade would be nice. I mean: GNU bash, version 3.2.57(1)-release (x86_64-apple-darwin15) Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc. but, no. all we get every year are either 3d icons, or flat icons, round corners, new name...
- sigzero 10y ago
  homebrew is your friend. They are not going to upgrade anything that has gone to GPL3.
  - zodiakzz 10y ago
    Any reason why they can't fork it and port all the new stuff? I'd imagine for legal reasons they will have to hire devs who haven't looked at the GNU source code.
    - oblio 10y ago
      Why fork? In 2016 Microsoft will be shipping a Windows extension that will allow running GPLv3 bash. Heck, if Microsoft is not afraid of the legal consequences, surely Apple shouldn't be, either?
      - masklinn 10y ago
        > In 2016 Microsoft will be shipping a Windows extension that will allow running GPLv3 bash. Heck, if Microsoft is not afraid of the legal consequences, surely Apple shouldn't be, either? Microsoft will not be shipping GPLv3 code. Microsoft will be shipping WSL, you get the actual code from Canonical under Ubuntu's license when you enable the WSL and try to use one of the command-line tools. And guess what? You can do the exact same thing on your OSX machine right now, by installing Homebrew or Macports or Nix or even downloading and compiling the fucking tarballs. Apple has been "shipping an OSX extension that allows running GPLv3 bash" for a bit more than 15 years now.
    - 10y ago
sgnelson 10y ago
Will this make the OS suck less? Seriously, at least for my use case, and in my opinion, OS X has been on a downward trend for a while (since 10.6). They need to fix the bugs, and get back to a nice stable OS that "just works." That's all I'm interested in.
- vardump 10y ago
  Apple really needs to improve OpenGL support at least. Bump version to 4.4. They should also fix any OpenGL bugs in a timely manner. Windows file sharing (at least with Windows 10 Pro) is pretty broken as well. Transferring multiple large files (especially 2 GB+) from OS X to a win10 file share seems to fail every time.
  - Ono-Sendai 10y ago
    out of interest, what are the OpenGL bugs?
    - dman 10y ago
      Just one example => https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2015-May/045367.html https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2015-May/0...
  - Analemma_ 10y ago
    > Apple really needs to improve OpenGL support at least. Bump version to 4.4. They should also fix any OpenGL bugs in a timely manner. Not going to happen. Metal is the One True Way now.
- Wonderdonkey 10y ago
  I had kept my Macs at 10.6 for a long time but had to "upgrade" one of them to help my daughter with an iPhone problem (really annoying that you have to update your Mac just to copy files to a phone, but whatever). Everything was worse. Search was terrible. Mail was in the crapper. The weirdest shock was when I was using Apple apps and discovered they'd changed Shift-Command-S from "Save As" to "Duplicate." That move is really emblematic of Apple's direction with the Mac — arbitrary changes that either eliminate features or make everyday workflow more cumbersome. I bought my first Mac in 1989. I bought my first non-Mac PC in 2015 and stopped using Mac altogether.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jsheard 10y ago
Still no mention of Vulkan support on macOS or iOS. The dream of one 3D API to rule them all remains a dream :(
- jacoblambda 10y ago
  but but but but metal - they cried
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Sony and Nintendo also don't care.
musicalentropy 10y ago
Every time I see a new version of OS X released, I'm tired just thinking about all the dev incoming to support the new issues / crashes / incompatibilities / XCode things to download again and other so called "features" support...
xxr 10y ago
Will they likely be moving to major version increments for each named release? Since it's no longer "OS 10," will Sierra be macOS 11, and the named release after it macOS12, and so on?
- russjr08 10y ago
  I wouldn't be too surprised if they just dropped the number, and kept the name. "macOS Sierra" and so on.
- PhantomGremlin 10y ago
  MY prediction is that Sierra will be aka macOS 10.12. Starting next year we will have iOS 11 and macOS 11. That way the numbers are unified.
unit91 10y ago
This will finally alleviate the awkward pronunciation ambiguity. To this day, I'm not sure whether to say "OS ex" or "OS ten".
- 27182818284 10y ago
  If you use the say command in the Terminal you get the definitive answer.
  - 542458 10y ago
    Spoiler alert for anybody without access to a mac right now: $ say "OS X" pronounces it as "OS Ten".
    - geophile 10y ago
      Mine says "os ex". (10.11.5)
      - heartbreak 10y ago
        All caps.
      - slinkyavenger 10y ago
        There has to be a space between the OS and X for it to work for me.
  - malz 10y ago
    Its rules for pronouncing "X" are also distinct in these cases: say "Malcolm X" say "Louis X"
    - switch007 10y ago
      Hah, it does roman numerals up to 49 say Louis XLIX = Louis the 49th say Louis L = Louis L
- 10y ago
mikestew 10y ago
The good news is that I might not have to listen to people call it "Mac OS Ex" anymore. I'm hoping there's a bunch of new APIs hiding in there allowing ISVs to do cool stuff. Because the new version, meh, don't care about Siri much and the rest of the stuff is window dressing, IMO. Maybe some improvements for Xcode, testing tools?
- mafro 10y ago
  I have never in RL heard anyone call it "OS ten"
  - ta_donk_gt 10y ago
    Just curious what age range you are in. From what I've personally noticed, younger folks tend to almost all pronounce it "O-S-ecks" and most in my generation (~40) tend to pronounce it "O-S-ten".
    - jyrkesh 10y ago
      24 year old here. I exclusively call it "O-S-ten" and cringe every time someone says "O-S-ecks". Only particular reason I can think of is that we had OS 9 machines in grade school that slowly got replaced by OS X machines. Seemed natural I guess. Plus, "O-S-ecks" gets too close to "O-S-sex". I was a kid...
      - ta_donk_gt 10y ago
        Yeah, 9->10 seemed natural, and I remember articles when it was first released along the lines of "OS X (pronounced O-S-Ten)". I used to cringe when I heard "ecks", but it's become so common it doesn't have an effect anymore.
    - lake99 10y ago
      I am close to your age, and I have always called it "O-S-ecks" because I hate roman numbers (there's a book that I call D-S-M-eye-vee) and because "O-S-ex ten point nine" sounds better than the alternative.
killercup 10y ago
Am I the only one who was really disappointed when the were talking about 'getting back disk space' and by the meant 'move stuff to the cloud' and not 'LZ4 in HFS+'? (I've given up on ZFS on OS X by default.) Edit: Oh, wow! Apple File System! (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11896785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11896785 for discussion)
- astrange 10y ago
  HFS+ already supports file compression, and all system files already are. You can use it yourself depending on how much you trust it. https://github.com/diimdeep/afsctool https://github.com/diimdeep/afsctool
kriro 10y ago
I foresee a lot of trouble as a MBP user with no other Apple products (MBP=work machine). Interoperability with Android phones is already sucky and they seem to bundle their product line even more. Siri for MBP will be annoying, hope it can be disabled completely...which of course won't stop my co-workers from using it all day :( It also sounds like there will be a few new attack vectors. The log in when close by sounds like a pretty horrible idea and I have a feeling the copy/paste feature will turn out to cause some issues as well.
- whatsamattayou 10y ago
  "Siri, a coworker is complaining next to me. What should I do?"
- therealmarv 10y ago
  What is sucky with Android phones and OS X? You want Universal Clipboard use something like Pushbullet or alternatives http://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/26495/universal-copy-paste-like-in-pushbullet http://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/26495/univer... you want cloud sync use the existing cloudservices or use Syncthing which lets you sync even without a cloud. You can get nearly all features today also with Android ( even unlocking the Mac with Android Wear https://www.gadgetish.com/index.html https://www.gadgetish.com/index.html ). Of course you will not get them from Apple ;)
  - arvinsim 10y ago
    There are many of of OSX-iOS only apps that I would buy have it been available in Android.
rayiner 10y ago
This is all shockingly "meh."
- mafro 10y ago
  Completely agree. Although I am no longer shocked by this stuff from Apple..
- allemagne 10y ago
  Honestly the name switch is the most interesting thing. And it's marginally interesting.
- freehunter 10y ago
  Half the people here are complaining about too many new features and not enough stability, and the other half are complaining that there aren't enough new features. This is why Apple doesn't listen to consumers and instead just puts out whatever they want to.
  - partiallypro 10y ago
    No, I think they are complaining about too many features that just aren't good. A little different.
  - pier25 10y ago
    It's not about quantity, but quality. People are complaining because these new features are (mostly) unsubstantial gimmicks.
salzig 10y ago
- You can unlock your mac using you apple watch. - You can confirm payments using your apple watch. A thief having your mac and watch can do/buy everything? Is it just me thinging about it?
- matthewmacleod 10y ago
  Probably. The Apple Watch locks when removed from the wrist, and required subsequent authentication before it can be used for payments. There's minimal risk here.
  - salzig 10y ago
    I dont own one. Does it look when removed? Is unlocking required for all, or can i disable it?
    - otterley 10y ago
      It locks automatically when you remove it from your wrist.
    - matthewmacleod 10y ago
      I also don't own one, but my understanding is that: - a passcode is required to use features like Apple Pay - the watch can be configured such that it only has to be unlocked once, until it is removed from the wrist/rebooted/manually locked
      - k-mcgrady 10y ago
        >> "- a passcode is required to use features like Apple Pay" Not true. You just double tap the side button and can use Apple Pay. The way it secures itself is that as soon as you remove it from your wrist it locks and requires a passcode. You can't do anything with it until you enter the passcode.
        matthewmacleod 10y ago
noobermin 10y ago
Canonical was surely onto something, they just failed to deliver. Apple probably will however.
blackhaz 10y ago
I wonder why macOS, and not Mac OS? Do you have a mac or a Mac? Majority of posters here capitalize. Why glue an abbreviation to a product name?
- waterphone 10y ago
  To match iOS, tvOS and watchOS.
  - panglott 10y ago
    Also, I usually read "Mac OS" as Mac OS 9 and earlier. Ancient.
zymhan 10y ago
So the new version isn't called 10.12 at all? Is there no version number at all?
gregschlom 10y ago
> Also new is what Apple calls the universal clipboard. This gives users access to a single clipboard that works across iOS and macOS I hope this only works when the 2 devices are on the same wifi network or have bluetooth enabled, rather than by sending every single thing I copy to an Apple server...
- waterphone 10y ago
  Complete and utter speculation, but if this is implemented well I imagine it is done the same as iMessages, with end to end encryption to all your devices. (Which, last I read about it, has its flaws and isn't a perfect system against state level actors, but it's not the worst.)
  - gregschlom 10y ago
    Yeah, that would make sense.
  - stephenr 10y ago
    Handoff is direct between devices, and this is apparently an extension of Handoff.
izacus 10y ago
Seriously, did Apple fire their OSX / macOS team? Pretty much all new features are spinoffs of their iOS infrastructure (Siri, handover, etc.) and the main OS development and innovation seems to have stalled. Not even a feature like telling software that you're on a metered connection and it shouldn't run backups! Is there anyone at Apple still working on innovating / improving OS X? Like people that tried to bring in ZFS, improve the Unix layer, work on Vulkan/3D/VR or something like that? O.o
- harryh 10y ago
  I would settle for fixing the bug where I have to restart Finder to rebuild the connection every time my NAS drive spins down. Also the combination of screensharing to a headless MacMini and then AirPlaying to an Apple TV produces some fairly loathsome results.
  - adamnemecek 10y ago
    Oh that's a Finder bug? I was blaming Synology but I'm basing that on nothing.
    - harryh 10y ago
      Huh. I suppose it could be Synology? Either way it's hella annoying.
      - evo_9 10y ago
        I think this is on Synology issue, my Samsung TV routinely loses the NAS drive while streaming media. Not constantly but randomly once or twice a day; I have to power my TV off/on to get it to see the drive again. Meanwhile the same NAS connect to my Macbook Air, iPads and iPhones (for the kids) never drops the NAS.
        derefr 10y ago
        I used to have a "once or twice a day things the internet suddenly gets really flaky from certain hosts" problem. It turns out it was my router, somehow being so crap at DHCP lease renewal that it was wedging the hosts connected to it. Since I was already using a bunch of Apple stuff, I put my router/gateway in bridge mode and plopped an AirPort Extreme behind it, and the problems went away. Though, given the particular devices you list, the problem might actually be support vs. lack thereof for 802.1q (media QoS). Apple hardware supports it at all price levels; every other vendor seems to see it as an enterprise feature (for e.g. VoIP softphone VLANs) and doesn't bother including support for it in their consumer chipsets.
bobbyi_settv 10y ago
It seems like more and more of the work on MacOS is dedicated to propping up iOS instead of simply making a great desktop OS. As someone who does not use or want Apple's mobile devices, it's been hard to get excited about these last few releases.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  What does it not have that you want (and think a lot of other people also want)?
  - epa 10y ago
    Consider what it does have that you dont want it to have (iTunes Syncing, locked filedrive, etc).
    - 7Z7 10y ago
      Can't you turn off iTunes syncing? And what is "locked filedrive"?
- jasonshen 10y ago
  > As someone who does not use or want Apple's mobile devices My guess is that most of Mac users do want/use Apple mobile devices, and that in fact the majority of their computing time is now on those devices so it makes sense that the team would focus heavily on the interface and overlap between iOS / MacOS.
  - izacus 10y ago
    Huh, in most of the world the mapping between iOS and macOS users is nowhere 1-to-1. There's huge amount of users who use either one or the other. Which doesn't really change the fact that even Windows 10 has been starting to pass them by with significant new features.
    - coldtea 10y ago
imron 10y ago
> if you use multiple macOS machines, Apple will now sync your desktops between them, too Oh No. Please no. If I had to come up with a list of 5 things Apple is really bad at, sync would be one of them. I've basically stopped syncing my phone and desktop because of all the duplicated calendar entries syncing creates. It's something I have absolutely zero trust in them to do properly.
- matthewmacleod 10y ago
  See, the thing is - I use sync across multiple Apple devices. I have had zero problems with duplicated or missing entries, and it's one of the absolute killer features of the ecosystem for me. It's hard to get a real impression of what problems may or may not exist, unfortunately.
  - imron 10y ago
    It works great - until it doesn't, and then you find all your music is deleted or something [0] They don't exactly have a stellar record on this sort of thing. 0 - http://9to5mac.com/2016/05/13/apple-officially-acknowledges-reports-of-personal-music-files-being-deleted-itunes-update-coming-next-week-to-hopefully-fix-the-bug/ http://9to5mac.com/2016/05/13/apple-officially-acknowledges-...
    - coldtea 10y ago
      One random user? Which they officially acknowledged even? This might be a less than a stellar record, but not because of that link.
      - imron 10y ago
        That was just the first link from a Google search. Internet forums are full of other users complaining of the same problem. Even if it only affects 0.1% of users, multiply that by the tens of millions, and that's a large number of people having a horrible experience. It works great for you, until you're in the 0.1% then it's a bitch. Edit: and it's not just music, it's a mulit-year history of botching up sync across multiple different technologies - some of which I've experienced first hand, some of which I've had friends complain of. Either way, Apple have zero credibility with me and syncing.
oakenclast 10y ago
I've been using Apple operating systems for most of my computing, since the Apple IIe. I started using OS X in 2001. Every since the release of 10.7, I have just been disappointed with their releases. Now that they are releasing major updates on a yearly press-release driven schedule, their quality has suffered. And their drive towards making the desktop more like iOS seems to cater more to non-technical consumers than developers. I have been happily exploring Linux the past year, mostly in VMs trying out different distros. I kinda doubt I will upgrade to macOS.
- jarjoura 10y ago
  What version of Mac OS was ever meant for more technical consumers though? Apple's DNA has always been consumer product focused in everything they build.
  - sdkmvx 10y ago
    Obviously they were never exclusively marketed towards technical users, but Apple was definitely targeting the UNIX workstation and multimedia workstation markets in the early 2000s. See http://www.brainmapping.org/MarkCohen/UNIXad.pdf http://www.brainmapping.org/MarkCohen/UNIXad.pdf
    - jarjoura 10y ago
      That's an ad for the PowerBook G4 marketed to power users of the platform. See http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/performance/ http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/performance/ for comparison of the difference in marketing. Also see http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/black_macbook.jpg http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/black_... when the black macbook was launched.
- tarsinge 10y ago
  We don't share the same memories of the 90's
Ezhik 10y ago
I thought I had at least 20 years before being scared of new technology. Still sitting on OS X 10.10 scared to update, and completely disinterested in most cloud stuff except for my OneDrive folder. Time to look into Linux, I suppose, since I'm about to become one of those people.
- TheCoreh 10y ago
  Out of curiosity, what scared you away from 10.11?
  - beedogs 10y ago
    For one thing, it breaks nearly every audio application (Serato, Ableton, etc.)
  - tajen 10y ago
    That Apple doesn't do quality anymore? For Mac OS, system bugs are increasing release after release, kernel panics were introduced in Mavericks and didn't go away with El Capitan even though it was supposed to be a bugfix-centric release. I also have deactivated upgrades.
    - kingnothing 10y ago
      For whatever it's worth, El Capitan hasn't been any worse than previous versions of OS X that I've used over the past 6 years.
    - runn1ng 10y ago
      If you are scared of updates breaking stuff, Linux is not the best choice either. Updates to OS regularly breaks graphics and Wi-Fi drivers for me; after every second update I have to solve "why is everything black" and "why are all videos green". Of all the things I disliked on OS X when I moved to Linux, instability with updates is even worse here.
      - wtracy 10y ago
sidcool 10y ago
That last video was inspiring. We the Developers.
tostitos1979 10y ago
I was really hoping for a Macbook pro with a more up-to-date CPU. Or an upgrade of the non-pro iPad. Really disappointed.
- johns 10y ago
  WWDC is about software. Hardware updates mostly happen later in the year.
  - TulliusCicero 10y ago
    It's been a while since the Macbook air and pros have been refreshed (no Skylake!), that's why people were thinking it might happen here.
  - ta_donk_gt 10y ago
    Actually, a number of hardware announcements and unveilings have happened at WWDC over the years. A couple of iPhones unveiled, a few Macbook Pros (including last year, I believe, as well as 2012 with the first retina MBP), and a few others.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
      Maybe WWDC will have less hardware given Apple have so much software now, though.
kybernetyk 10y ago
I'm disappointed. After them announcing the subscription pricing changes, paid search results, etc. in a press conference because "we can't fit all into the keynote" I expected more. Instead we got 20 minutes of adults playing with emojis. Not what I would expect from a developer conference keynote. /edit: Thanks for the hint to watch the State of the Union video.
- mayoff 10y ago
  The stuff announced last week is mainly of interest to developers, not end users. Most of what was in the keynote was for end users. That said, I'd be surprised if they couldn't fit last week's stuff into the Platforms State of the Union (later today), which is basically the developer-oriented keynote.
- M4v3R 10y ago
  Wait for the Platforms State of the Union video, it will be probably available in few hours on Apple's developers website [1]. It's basically another keynote, but more developer oriented. https://developer.apple.com/videos/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/ Edit: mayoff beat me to it :)
  - 0942v8653 10y ago
    https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/102/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/102/ Not available yet, but when it is, it will be at this link.
more-entropy 10y ago
And... where is new MBP?!
crusso 10y ago
Siri integration... getting closer. Another 30 years and we'll have the intelligent assistant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGYFEI6uLy0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGYFEI6uLy0
sidcool 10y ago
Scary they didn't talk about Xcode at all
- addicted 10y ago
  That will happen in the Dev SOTU later in the day.
dman 10y ago
Was hoping for a newer filesystem in this release.
- STRML 10y ago
  Appears there is one: https://developer.apple.com/wwdc/schedule/#/details/701 https://developer.apple.com/wwdc/schedule/#/details/701
  - dman 10y ago
    Excellent news! at a developer conference I would expect this to be the headline announcement.
    - trizzle21 10y ago
      Yeah but emojis apparently are more important
- drakenot 10y ago
  https://developer.apple.com/wwdc/schedule/#/details/701 https://developer.apple.com/wwdc/schedule/#/details/701
gcatalfamo 10y ago
Where the hell is my new Macbook Pro? edit: :)
- rimantas 10y ago
  Compiling.
EGreg 10y ago
I want to know one thing: DID APPLE FINALLY MAKE WEB PUSH AVAILABLE IN iOS THE WAY THEY HAVE IN MacOS?
commandar 10y ago
Auto unlock would be a lot more interesting to me if I hadn't already been using Windows Hello on the Surface Book. I'm honestly more comfortable with that than proximity locking; I can foresee situations like stepping into a coworkers' office next to mine or to the restroom across the hall where I don't want the device to autounlock without me sitting directly in front of it.
- billbrown 10y ago
  MacID is a much safer (and seemingly more powerful, from what I could tell from the keynote) implementation of this idea. I've been using it for a long time and it's really solid. https://macid.co/ https://macid.co/
frik 10y ago
It was always MacOSX for me.
quadrangle 10y ago
Thankfully, I've been doing much of this mobile integration (like sharing clipboard) for a while via KDE and KDE-connect on GNU/Linux with Android/Linux! Otherwise, the entire reason I use GNU/Linux at all was when Apple added the Mac App Store and made it clear that they would eventually turn the Mac into iOS effectively, complete with the walled-garden stuff, censorship, sabotaging of GPL software (which can't go in the App Stores) etc. So, thanks Apple for introducing me to software freedom! :P
- majewsky 10y ago
  KDE Connect is one of the most noteworthy developments in FOSS in the last few years, precisely because it's simple and elegant and "just works", like an Apple product, while at the same time carrying all the core values of FOSS.
- matt4077 10y ago
  Yeah, they made it so clear that four years after the App Store was introduced, I'm still perfectly able to install Non-App Store software. And brew <anything> is more up-to-date and bug-free than apt-get. The App Store doesn't support the GPL3, but then again, neither does the Linux kernel. MIT license, by the way, is compatible with the store.
  - quadrangle 10y ago
    Yeah, of course permissive licenses are compatible with anything, they just fail to preserve freedoms, see, e.g., the Apple App Store. And you're right. I mistyped. I didn't mean that Apple made the iOS direction of everything clear, I meant that they made it apparent at all with enough hints of its potential to be really worrying. I already think that the non-App-store warning message requiring changing security settings (which looks really scary to generic end-users) serves to somewhat sabotage the non-App-store market.
mikegerwitz 10y ago
Can I swipe someone's phone, walk over to their Mac, and have it unlock? Or is there something else going on that doesn't make this a really bad idea?
- prirun 10y ago
  You mean like, the cops, FBI, or TSA take your iphone, put it close to your laptop, and then have access to everything, probably including your encrypted hard drive? Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty bad idea.
  - mikegerwitz 10y ago
    That too. I was referring to just your average person---be it a friend, spouse, coworker, or someone who just happens to be near you.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
omginternets 10y ago
What's the state of running linux (e.g. Ubuntu or Debian) on recent (< 3 years old) Mac hardware? Given what El Capitan has done to my otherwise fantastic macbook, I'm not so sure I want to keep up with their latest developments.
- matt4077 10y ago
  It's the state of Linux on the Desktop anywhere. Expect three hours of fiddling kernel parameters to get sleep to work as expected, followed by the same for Wifi, Sound, Graphics. To be repeated at least with every dist update. Expect different applications to use different languages, some to have menu bars within the window, some on top. Sometimes strg+c copies something, sometimes highlighting text does it. Not all applications use the same clipboard. Font rendering is inconsistent. Some applications bring their own color-, font-, kb-layout-management. Linux is excellent on the server. On the desktop it's ... not something for people complaining about OS X.
  - omginternets 10y ago
    >It's the state of Linux on the Desktop anywhere. I'm a bit surprised at your comment as my experience with linux on the desktop (or laptop) has been consistently good on such things as Dells and custom-built boxes. Granted, there are a few minor bugs here and there, but overall Ubuntu and Debian seem to "just work" on commodity hardware. Maybe I've been lucky? Are you suggesting that all these problems are comorbid or that these are all possible problems one might experience (in an uncorrelated way) on Mac hardware?
therealmarv 10y ago
I waited for PiP or as Windows calls it make a Window always stay on top (like Win and Linux can do for decades) for so long and now I have to use Safari as it seems to get it working. I also doubt it will work with Flash or any live web sport streams :( What was/is so complicated to get an always on top window on OS X aka macOS?
r2dnb 10y ago
Looks like the best way to be downvoted on HN is to be critical of either Facebook or Apple - and to a lesser extent MS. That's the only way I ever managed to get downvoted.
- eropple 10y ago
  You were downvoted (I downvoted you) not for being critical of any company, but by aggressively making profoundly sweeping statements in a way that seemed designed to troll people. What's more, what you said is incorrect. You don't need to attend (and indeed when I worked on OS X applications I never did)--you wait less than 24 hours for the videos to be posted, or you read the documentation that describes in detail any new features of the operating system.
  - r2dnb 10y ago
    You downvoted me because you disagree with me / felt mocked. No trolling but I perhaps triggered more emotion than intended. I forgot the high level of zealotry when it comed to FB and Apple. And I overlooked that only people committed to Apple would participate in a thread having this title. For the record: I highlighted the irony of calling this meeting state of the union for a company already criticized for its closeliness. "Having to attend" referred to the top-down approach. Never commented on the "you can stream/download thing". Most downvoters were emotional and totally missed the point. I would do it again to be honest. I respect your lifestyle choice, hope the conference went fine ;)
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  You were downvoted for being wrong. And now you're being downvoted again because you're whining about it, instead of just admitting that you were wrong. I see about as many people complaining that HN irrationally loves Apple as that it irrationally hates Apple. Neither one is true. Mostly HN downvotes people who don't check their facts.
  - r2dnb 10y ago
    I never said that you have to attend physically. See my comment below. "Whining about it". Please avoid personal attacks.
dcgoss 10y ago
In the past year since El Capitan I have had essentially zero major issues with the software. I feel that most of the time programmers tend to overstate the bugginess of Apple software - most users I know have a consistently smooth experience.
- dchest 10y ago
  How can they overstate bugginess? If you didn't hit a bug yet, you luckily don't know about it. If there's a bug, there's a bug.
  - dcgoss 10y ago
    Absolutely if there's a bug, there's a bug. By "overstate bugginess" I meant that some people speak as though the software is so buggy that it is difficult to use the computer (example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11895916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11895916). I personally have had a very smooth and pain-free experience with OS X/macOS 99% of the time, and many people I know have a similarly smooth experience.
    - dchest 10y ago
      Oh, I see, thanks. Yes, also still use OS X, although I hit bugs from time to time.
DonHopkins 10y ago
Wow, we're back to MacOS but now it's spelled macOS. It's like moving back into your parent's house, and noticing that some of the furniture in your room looks smaller than you remember.
shmerl 10y ago
Instead of pointless name changes, they should start supporting latest OpenGL and Vulkan.
makecheck 10y ago
As an owner of still-functioning early-2008 hardware, it stings a little to see the machine suddenly unable to “support” such a minor-looking OS update. It was easier to handle back when you saw something like a complete transformation of the OS from one version to another. There are many reasons to want a more layered software architecture, and this is one of them: I would like to be able to continue improving the core of old machines without necessarily having to support whatever else they feel like building on top. On the other hand, Apple has always done this: it blasts forward, and it always finds ways to make you just a little dissatisfied with what you have. They’re sort of brilliant at it, actually.
- stephenr 10y ago
  Your complaint is that an eight year old computer should run a just announced os. Most people would be fucking ecstatic that their 8 year old computer still works and runs a current OS.
insulanian 10y ago
My guess is they want to jump to v11 so they need a new name, since OS X doesn't fit anymore.
newman314 10y ago
What bums me out is the seemingly arbitrary dropping of support for older hardware. I have an older MBP that I've upgraded with SSD and mem. It works great other than being bulky for my use case (email, surfing) It relies on a iGPU so there's really no reason for support to be dropped other than Apple wanting me to upgrade.
- staticfish 10y ago
  I believe the older models (and by older models, those that are 8(!) years and older) were deprecated as they didn't included a couple of the execution flags for processor assisted encryption.
dghughes 10y ago
If anything you'd think Apple would or should change iOS to a new name (macMobile? or mOS?) considering Cisco had IOS first.

512 points by tilt 10y ago

tdkl 10y ago

The "Optimized storage" made me laugh. How about making physical storage devices exchangeable again?

mthoms 10y ago
But that conflicts with the "Optimize revenue" directive.

muterad_murilax 10y ago

So, will it be macOS 10.12 or just macOS 12? I don't think they mentioned this during the presentation.

cag_ii 10y ago
I only heard them refer to it as "macOS Sierra".

protomyth 10y ago

I hope all the cloud storage can be turned off. Depending on your job (e.g. confidential data) or how much you pay for bandwidth, these are some really bad features.

umanwizard 10y ago
It's not like iOS where everything is locked down. You are root and can do anything you want on your machine. It should be pretty trivial to prevent the cloud storage stuff from running.
- protomyth 10y ago
  I have to disable security by typing commands at a reboot to change system icons, so I'm not really root in the traditional sense on my Mac.
  - umanwizard 10y ago
    Unless they remove the ability to turn off SIP, you have full control over your machine. This is very different from iOS where you have to wait for some team of Chinese hackers to discover a security vulnerability in order to get access to your own device. Not sure why this is not "root in the traditional sense", unless you're in some environment where you don't have physical access to the machine and can't reboot for some reason.
    - protomyth 10y ago
      I meant with SIP, root is not the all powerful account it is traditionally. I'm also sick of the idea of disabling security to do simple things that shouldn't be covered by the security.
      - umanwizard 10y ago
        You can be sick of that if you want, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the point I was making, which is that it should be possible to disable cloud storage on your Mac, since you can do anything on your own device. Whether you can do that with a reboot or not, whether you need to disable SIP, etc., isn't really germane to what I was talking about and I feel like you just wanted to take the opportunity to rant.
        protomyth 10y ago
        I don't think I should have to disable security to do things that are not security concerns. I also doubt the average user regards root as a solution. I am not hopeful given what was said during the prior beta, that disabling SIP will always be an option. > I feel like you just wanted to take the opportunity to rant. Was this line necessary?
- baldfat 10y ago
  > You are root and can do anything you want on your machine. That was never my experience on an Apple device. Now my Linux boxes yes, but Apple and Windows no way. Especially with the Mac App Store and the user Interface being so locked down by Apple. Many things are hidden by Apple.
  - allemagne 10y ago
    What specifically have you tried to do on an OS X computer that you couldn't?
  - umanwizard 10y ago
    The only thing I have found that couldn't be done on an OS X device was run a custom kernel without breaking power management. Do you have any other examples of things that you can't do?
    - izacus 10y ago
      Can you modify system files and resign them so you can keep SIP working?
      - umanwizard 10y ago
        Probably, if you boot the kernel with boot flags that tell it to accept any signature. I haven't tested this.
mhurron 10y ago
Ya that cloud storage thing needs to be able to be turned off for my personal use because I don't want that feature and for work otherwise I can never upgrade past 10.11 and will basically have to go back to a Windows machine when it comes time to replace my work machine. Apple Pay in Safari seems very interesting. I wish they had come up with something that would have worked with any browser as my personal primary machine is Linux, but I can probably upgrade my old macbook to use that.
- facetube 10y ago
  There are also people who simply don't have access to sufficient bandwidth to make use of cloud storage. Forcing it on would make the OS and my internet connection useless to me.
jlarocco 10y ago
Those are not the only reasons to want the cloud features turned off. I don't want my phone and computer tied together, and it already annoys me how integrated the iPhone is to iTunes. I also don't want Apple cloud data storage. It's not a feature I need very often, and for the times I do, I have dropbox. I am not interested in having cloud storage integrated into the operating system like that. I will not be upgrading to this version until it has been verified that all of this crap can be turned off completely.
macinjosh 10y ago
You can turn them off in the setup process of macOS Sierra
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
matt4077 10y ago
Why should it not be? It's been a single checkbox in settings since it was introduced.

WildUtah 10y ago

In OS X, the X is the tenth version of Mac OS. So this new version is now "Mac OS 10: macOS." Unless they bump the version number, that is. Then it would be "Mac OS 11: macOS."

umanwizard 10y ago
'X' could potentially also stand for Xnu or uniX.

xutopia 10y ago

Safari-tab? What do they mean?

fname 10y ago
Tabs across all windows, all apps.
- facetube 10y ago
  BeOS lives.
chrisseaton 10y ago
The article doesn't contain the term 'Safari-tab'. It does have 'Safari-like tabs' in it, by which I would imagine they mean tabs, like you get in the Safari user interface.
- isseu 10y ago
  what happens if the app already have tabs inside? Like sublime for example
  - chrisseaton 10y ago
    I don't know any more than you, mate.
  - Etheryte 10y ago
    They meant all apps made by Apple, not random apps, as far as I could tell.
    - isseu 10y ago
      I could be wrong but I think he said all apps without any developer changes..
    - rarepostinlurkr 10y ago

hnatt 10y ago

Funny thing, "macOS" (actually "мак ос" / "мак ось") was a slang name for OS X in Russian and Ukrainian languages all this time.

cag_ii 10y ago
Weren't all pre OS-X versions also called Mac OS?
- wl 10y ago
  Up until recently, it was Mac OS X.
- mhurron 10y ago
  Between versions 7 and 10 it was officially MacOS [VERSION], before that it was referred to as system [VERSION], as in System 6 and so on. That was not an official name, it was the version number of the file `system` and was simply the system that ran on a Mac, because there was only one. It got the official name MacOS when they allowed the selling of clones.
umanwizard 10y ago
We colloquially call it "Mac OS" in English too.

adamnemecek 10y ago

Does the fact that they didn't talk about UXKit mean that it's not happening?

mikestew 10y ago
Could be in the dev sessions. Seems to be that the keynote hasn't been direct at devs in quite a few years. So the stuff you, as a developer, care about won't be shown in the big show.

spitfire 10y ago

Will they update the unix layer? A lot of the CLI tools there are positively prehistoric. Maybe while they're at it they can add a real package manager too.

bigdubs 10y ago
https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-dupes https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-dupes is your friend.
- peterbraden 10y ago
  Is there a way to replace all of them in one move?
  - rcthompson 10y ago
    Just install all the formulae from that repository, I'd assume. They all replace some system-provided tool. I believe they install the binaries to a separate directory that you need to prepend to your $PATH in order to get your shell to default to the updated versions.
  - zymhan 10y ago
    You can't really replace the underlying tools, you'd want to install the new versions in a different folder and update your Environment to point to those executables. EDIT: I'm wrong, didn't realize homebrew-dupes actually is meant to replace the OS X utils.
    - peterbraden 10y ago
      Why not replace? If there's a security flaw, I want those versions gone. EDIT: you edited :)
    - StevePerkins 10y ago
      So effectively, it's only one step better than installing Cygwin on a Windows machine? Can someone please remind me again why the MacBook is such a preffered machine for software development? For years I've been told, "You get a shell!", and "It's UNIX under the covers", etc. Except that the shell userspace is antiquated, and the UNIX flavor is BSD rather than Linux. Meaning that I'm just as out-of-sync with my target server as if I were on a Windows machine, I still have to run Docker through a VM layer, etc. Don't get me wrong, the hardware is excellant. But the software is even more locked-down and less customizable than the MS world... and just skipping the middle man and installing Linux directly is a 10x better developer experience than both.

reacharavindh 10y ago

Copy/paste across iPhone and Mac is very useful. All the other features are Meh. I really don't want to be that guy talking to my Mac at work. I can't be sure that all my questions to Siri are not awkward to speak out. Would have been great to have a textual interface though. You know that Keyboard thingy that is always with a Mac?!

ebbv 10y ago
Spotlight is already incredibly useful, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's getting some of these improvements. We should know soon since Developer Preview of Sierra should be available today.
- coldtea 10y ago
  The definitely said it wont be available today.
  - trvrsalom 10y ago
    The developer previews will be available today, already have iOS 10 running on one device. http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/06/13/ios-10-watchos-3-macos-sierra-betas-will-debut-for-developers-today-public-testers-in-july http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/06/13/ios-10-watchos-3-m...
    - coldtea 10y ago
      For registered developers yes, the public beta is July though.
      - ebbv 10y ago
        Well that's what I said: > Developer Preview of Sierra should be available today. Which you disagreed with. So, you were factually wrong.
spilk 10y ago

hollander 10y ago

So the Mac is listening all the time. How can I physically disable the microphone?

teamhappy 10y ago
You can unplug it. I'm sure they'll allow you to disable Siri though (or maybe even disable the "hey Siri" crap and just use a button or something).
jamornh 10y ago
Looks like you have to press a button for it to start listening.
pwenzel 10y ago
I wonder if this will work similarly to pressing Fn twice to get to get the speech-to-text dialog in OSX.
kylec 10y ago
On the iPhone, the always-on "Hey Siri" activation is actually local on the device. You can test this out by activating Airplane Mode and saying "Hey Siri". The interface comes up, then says that you can't use Siri because you're offline. This means that Apple isn't listening to you 24/7, only when Siri is activated. Sure, sometimes it's activated accidentally and might overhear something you didn't want it to, but those times are pretty rare. If Apple introduces a "Hey Siri" feature on the Mac (which it's unclear about given the fact that in the demo Craig activated Siri by clicking on the icon, then later by pressing a key on the keyboard), I expect it would operate in the same way. Finally, I'm sure there's a software setting you can use to disable Siri if you really don't want it to be activated.

Philipp__ 10y ago

I hope there will be option to disable Siri. Don't want turned on mic 24/7.

Etheryte 10y ago
There's a sysconfig to turn off nearly everything in OS X if you're comfy with the CLI, I doubt Siri would be any different. It will probably be a usual GUI switch though, due to privacy laws.
- Philipp__ 10y ago
  I know. Very familiar with CLI. I spwnd 80% of time on my MacBook in iTerm. :) I was pretty disappointed by this WWDC. Any info on next XCode version?
  - tjl 10y ago
    The beta for XCode 8 is up which includes Swift 3 and support for iOS 10. Before you decide you're disappointed, wait for the Developer State of the Union later today and the other sessions. There's interesting things like an "Apple File System" session. It looks like the beta for the file system will be in macOS Sierra and come out officially in 2017. You won't be able to use it as a boot drive (probably a safe precaution) and it has a few other restrictions, but it's a good start.
    - Philipp__ 10y ago
      Yeah I read about those, checked everything! Can't wait to learn more! :) Thanks anyway!
kylec 10y ago
On the iPhone, the always-on "Hey Siri" activation is actually local on the device. You can test this out by activating Airplane Mode and saying "Hey Siri". The interface comes up, then says that you can't use Siri because you're offline. This means that Apple isn't listening to you 24/7, only when Siri is activated. Sure, sometimes it's activated accidentally and might overhear something you didn't want it to, but those times are pretty rare. If Apple introduces a "Hey Siri" feature on the Mac (which it's unclear about given the fact that in the demo Craig activated Siri by clicking on the icon, then later by pressing a key on the keyboard), I expect it would operate in the same way. Finally, I'm sure there's a software setting you can use to disable Siri if you really don't want it to be activated.

houshuang 10y ago

Would be useful to be able to type to Siri in a public setting...

merb 10y ago

wow. what a great innovation. rename the damn thing and auto unlock. i hoped for new stuff. even a /bin/bash upgrade would be nice. I mean: GNU bash, version 3.2.57(1)-release (x86_64-apple-darwin15) Copyright (C) 2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc. but, no. all we get every year are either 3d icons, or flat icons, round corners, new name...

sigzero 10y ago
homebrew is your friend. They are not going to upgrade anything that has gone to GPL3.
- zodiakzz 10y ago
  Any reason why they can't fork it and port all the new stuff? I'd imagine for legal reasons they will have to hire devs who haven't looked at the GNU source code.
  - oblio 10y ago
    Why fork? In 2016 Microsoft will be shipping a Windows extension that will allow running GPLv3 bash. Heck, if Microsoft is not afraid of the legal consequences, surely Apple shouldn't be, either?
    - masklinn 10y ago
      > In 2016 Microsoft will be shipping a Windows extension that will allow running GPLv3 bash. Heck, if Microsoft is not afraid of the legal consequences, surely Apple shouldn't be, either? Microsoft will not be shipping GPLv3 code. Microsoft will be shipping WSL, you get the actual code from Canonical under Ubuntu's license when you enable the WSL and try to use one of the command-line tools. And guess what? You can do the exact same thing on your OSX machine right now, by installing Homebrew or Macports or Nix or even downloading and compiling the fucking tarballs. Apple has been "shipping an OSX extension that allows running GPLv3 bash" for a bit more than 15 years now.
  - 10y ago

sgnelson 10y ago

Will this make the OS suck less? Seriously, at least for my use case, and in my opinion, OS X has been on a downward trend for a while (since 10.6). They need to fix the bugs, and get back to a nice stable OS that "just works." That's all I'm interested in.

vardump 10y ago
Apple really needs to improve OpenGL support at least. Bump version to 4.4. They should also fix any OpenGL bugs in a timely manner. Windows file sharing (at least with Windows 10 Pro) is pretty broken as well. Transferring multiple large files (especially 2 GB+) from OS X to a win10 file share seems to fail every time.
- Ono-Sendai 10y ago
  out of interest, what are the OpenGL bugs?
  - dman 10y ago
    Just one example => https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2015-May/045367.html https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2015-May/0...
- Analemma_ 10y ago
  > Apple really needs to improve OpenGL support at least. Bump version to 4.4. They should also fix any OpenGL bugs in a timely manner. Not going to happen. Metal is the One True Way now.
Wonderdonkey 10y ago
I had kept my Macs at 10.6 for a long time but had to "upgrade" one of them to help my daughter with an iPhone problem (really annoying that you have to update your Mac just to copy files to a phone, but whatever). Everything was worse. Search was terrible. Mail was in the crapper. The weirdest shock was when I was using Apple apps and discovered they'd changed Shift-Command-S from "Save As" to "Duplicate." That move is really emblematic of Apple's direction with the Mac — arbitrary changes that either eliminate features or make everyday workflow more cumbersome. I bought my first Mac in 1989. I bought my first non-Mac PC in 2015 and stopped using Mac altogether.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jsheard 10y ago

Still no mention of Vulkan support on macOS or iOS. The dream of one 3D API to rule them all remains a dream :(

jacoblambda 10y ago
but but but but metal - they cried
pjmlp 10y ago
Sony and Nintendo also don't care.

musicalentropy 10y ago

Every time I see a new version of OS X released, I'm tired just thinking about all the dev incoming to support the new issues / crashes / incompatibilities / XCode things to download again and other so called "features" support...

xxr 10y ago

Will they likely be moving to major version increments for each named release? Since it's no longer "OS 10," will Sierra be macOS 11, and the named release after it macOS12, and so on?

russjr08 10y ago
I wouldn't be too surprised if they just dropped the number, and kept the name. "macOS Sierra" and so on.
PhantomGremlin 10y ago
MY prediction is that Sierra will be aka macOS 10.12. Starting next year we will have iOS 11 and macOS 11. That way the numbers are unified.

unit91 10y ago

This will finally alleviate the awkward pronunciation ambiguity. To this day, I'm not sure whether to say "OS ex" or "OS ten".

27182818284 10y ago
If you use the say command in the Terminal you get the definitive answer.
- 542458 10y ago
  Spoiler alert for anybody without access to a mac right now: $ say "OS X" pronounces it as "OS Ten".
  - geophile 10y ago
    Mine says "os ex". (10.11.5)
    - heartbreak 10y ago
      All caps.
    - slinkyavenger 10y ago
      There has to be a space between the OS and X for it to work for me.
- malz 10y ago
  Its rules for pronouncing "X" are also distinct in these cases: say "Malcolm X" say "Louis X"
  - switch007 10y ago
    Hah, it does roman numerals up to 49 say Louis XLIX = Louis the 49th say Louis L = Louis L
10y ago

mikestew 10y ago

The good news is that I might not have to listen to people call it "Mac OS Ex" anymore. I'm hoping there's a bunch of new APIs hiding in there allowing ISVs to do cool stuff. Because the new version, meh, don't care about Siri much and the rest of the stuff is window dressing, IMO. Maybe some improvements for Xcode, testing tools?

mafro 10y ago
I have never in RL heard anyone call it "OS ten"
- ta_donk_gt 10y ago
  Just curious what age range you are in. From what I've personally noticed, younger folks tend to almost all pronounce it "O-S-ecks" and most in my generation (~40) tend to pronounce it "O-S-ten".
  - jyrkesh 10y ago
    24 year old here. I exclusively call it "O-S-ten" and cringe every time someone says "O-S-ecks". Only particular reason I can think of is that we had OS 9 machines in grade school that slowly got replaced by OS X machines. Seemed natural I guess. Plus, "O-S-ecks" gets too close to "O-S-sex". I was a kid...
    - ta_donk_gt 10y ago
      Yeah, 9->10 seemed natural, and I remember articles when it was first released along the lines of "OS X (pronounced O-S-Ten)". I used to cringe when I heard "ecks", but it's become so common it doesn't have an effect anymore.
  - lake99 10y ago
    I am close to your age, and I have always called it "O-S-ecks" because I hate roman numbers (there's a book that I call D-S-M-eye-vee) and because "O-S-ex ten point nine" sounds better than the alternative.

killercup 10y ago

Am I the only one who was really disappointed when the were talking about 'getting back disk space' and by the meant 'move stuff to the cloud' and not 'LZ4 in HFS+'? (I've given up on ZFS on OS X by default.) Edit: Oh, wow! Apple File System! (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11896785 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11896785 for discussion)

astrange 10y ago
HFS+ already supports file compression, and all system files already are. You can use it yourself depending on how much you trust it. https://github.com/diimdeep/afsctool https://github.com/diimdeep/afsctool

kriro 10y ago

I foresee a lot of trouble as a MBP user with no other Apple products (MBP=work machine). Interoperability with Android phones is already sucky and they seem to bundle their product line even more. Siri for MBP will be annoying, hope it can be disabled completely...which of course won't stop my co-workers from using it all day :( It also sounds like there will be a few new attack vectors. The log in when close by sounds like a pretty horrible idea and I have a feeling the copy/paste feature will turn out to cause some issues as well.

whatsamattayou 10y ago
"Siri, a coworker is complaining next to me. What should I do?"
therealmarv 10y ago
What is sucky with Android phones and OS X? You want Universal Clipboard use something like Pushbullet or alternatives http://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/26495/universal-copy-paste-like-in-pushbullet http://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/26495/univer... you want cloud sync use the existing cloudservices or use Syncthing which lets you sync even without a cloud. You can get nearly all features today also with Android ( even unlocking the Mac with Android Wear https://www.gadgetish.com/index.html https://www.gadgetish.com/index.html ). Of course you will not get them from Apple ;)
- arvinsim 10y ago
  There are many of of OSX-iOS only apps that I would buy have it been available in Android.

rayiner 10y ago

This is all shockingly "meh."

mafro 10y ago
Completely agree. Although I am no longer shocked by this stuff from Apple..
allemagne 10y ago
Honestly the name switch is the most interesting thing. And it's marginally interesting.
freehunter 10y ago
Half the people here are complaining about too many new features and not enough stability, and the other half are complaining that there aren't enough new features. This is why Apple doesn't listen to consumers and instead just puts out whatever they want to.
- partiallypro 10y ago
  No, I think they are complaining about too many features that just aren't good. A little different.
- pier25 10y ago
  It's not about quantity, but quality. People are complaining because these new features are (mostly) unsubstantial gimmicks.

salzig 10y ago

- You can unlock your mac using you apple watch. - You can confirm payments using your apple watch. A thief having your mac and watch can do/buy everything? Is it just me thinging about it?

matthewmacleod 10y ago
Probably. The Apple Watch locks when removed from the wrist, and required subsequent authentication before it can be used for payments. There's minimal risk here.
- salzig 10y ago
  I dont own one. Does it look when removed? Is unlocking required for all, or can i disable it?
  - otterley 10y ago
    It locks automatically when you remove it from your wrist.
  - matthewmacleod 10y ago
    I also don't own one, but my understanding is that: - a passcode is required to use features like Apple Pay - the watch can be configured such that it only has to be unlocked once, until it is removed from the wrist/rebooted/manually locked
    - k-mcgrady 10y ago
      >> "- a passcode is required to use features like Apple Pay" Not true. You just double tap the side button and can use Apple Pay. The way it secures itself is that as soon as you remove it from your wrist it locks and requires a passcode. You can't do anything with it until you enter the passcode.
      - matthewmacleod 10y ago

noobermin 10y ago

Canonical was surely onto something, they just failed to deliver. Apple probably will however.

blackhaz 10y ago

I wonder why macOS, and not Mac OS? Do you have a mac or a Mac? Majority of posters here capitalize. Why glue an abbreviation to a product name?

waterphone 10y ago
To match iOS, tvOS and watchOS.
- panglott 10y ago
  Also, I usually read "Mac OS" as Mac OS 9 and earlier. Ancient.

zymhan 10y ago

So the new version isn't called 10.12 at all? Is there no version number at all?

gregschlom 10y ago

> Also new is what Apple calls the universal clipboard. This gives users access to a single clipboard that works across iOS and macOS I hope this only works when the 2 devices are on the same wifi network or have bluetooth enabled, rather than by sending every single thing I copy to an Apple server...

waterphone 10y ago
Complete and utter speculation, but if this is implemented well I imagine it is done the same as iMessages, with end to end encryption to all your devices. (Which, last I read about it, has its flaws and isn't a perfect system against state level actors, but it's not the worst.)
- gregschlom 10y ago
  Yeah, that would make sense.
- stephenr 10y ago
  Handoff is direct between devices, and this is apparently an extension of Handoff.

izacus 10y ago

Seriously, did Apple fire their OSX / macOS team? Pretty much all new features are spinoffs of their iOS infrastructure (Siri, handover, etc.) and the main OS development and innovation seems to have stalled. Not even a feature like telling software that you're on a metered connection and it shouldn't run backups! Is there anyone at Apple still working on innovating / improving OS X? Like people that tried to bring in ZFS, improve the Unix layer, work on Vulkan/3D/VR or something like that? O.o

harryh 10y ago
I would settle for fixing the bug where I have to restart Finder to rebuild the connection every time my NAS drive spins down. Also the combination of screensharing to a headless MacMini and then AirPlaying to an Apple TV produces some fairly loathsome results.
- adamnemecek 10y ago
  Oh that's a Finder bug? I was blaming Synology but I'm basing that on nothing.
  - harryh 10y ago
    Huh. I suppose it could be Synology? Either way it's hella annoying.
    - evo_9 10y ago
      I think this is on Synology issue, my Samsung TV routinely loses the NAS drive while streaming media. Not constantly but randomly once or twice a day; I have to power my TV off/on to get it to see the drive again. Meanwhile the same NAS connect to my Macbook Air, iPads and iPhones (for the kids) never drops the NAS.
      - derefr 10y ago
        I used to have a "once or twice a day things the internet suddenly gets really flaky from certain hosts" problem. It turns out it was my router, somehow being so crap at DHCP lease renewal that it was wedging the hosts connected to it. Since I was already using a bunch of Apple stuff, I put my router/gateway in bridge mode and plopped an AirPort Extreme behind it, and the problems went away. Though, given the particular devices you list, the problem might actually be support vs. lack thereof for 802.1q (media QoS). Apple hardware supports it at all price levels; every other vendor seems to see it as an enterprise feature (for e.g. VoIP softphone VLANs) and doesn't bother including support for it in their consumer chipsets.

bobbyi_settv 10y ago

It seems like more and more of the work on MacOS is dedicated to propping up iOS instead of simply making a great desktop OS. As someone who does not use or want Apple's mobile devices, it's been hard to get excited about these last few releases.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
What does it not have that you want (and think a lot of other people also want)?
- epa 10y ago
  Consider what it does have that you dont want it to have (iTunes Syncing, locked filedrive, etc).
  - 7Z7 10y ago
    Can't you turn off iTunes syncing? And what is "locked filedrive"?
jasonshen 10y ago
> As someone who does not use or want Apple's mobile devices My guess is that most of Mac users do want/use Apple mobile devices, and that in fact the majority of their computing time is now on those devices so it makes sense that the team would focus heavily on the interface and overlap between iOS / MacOS.
- izacus 10y ago
  Huh, in most of the world the mapping between iOS and macOS users is nowhere 1-to-1. There's huge amount of users who use either one or the other. Which doesn't really change the fact that even Windows 10 has been starting to pass them by with significant new features.
  - coldtea 10y ago

imron 10y ago

> if you use multiple macOS machines, Apple will now sync your desktops between them, too Oh No. Please no. If I had to come up with a list of 5 things Apple is really bad at, sync would be one of them. I've basically stopped syncing my phone and desktop because of all the duplicated calendar entries syncing creates. It's something I have absolutely zero trust in them to do properly.

matthewmacleod 10y ago
See, the thing is - I use sync across multiple Apple devices. I have had zero problems with duplicated or missing entries, and it's one of the absolute killer features of the ecosystem for me. It's hard to get a real impression of what problems may or may not exist, unfortunately.
- imron 10y ago
  It works great - until it doesn't, and then you find all your music is deleted or something [0] They don't exactly have a stellar record on this sort of thing. 0 - http://9to5mac.com/2016/05/13/apple-officially-acknowledges-reports-of-personal-music-files-being-deleted-itunes-update-coming-next-week-to-hopefully-fix-the-bug/ http://9to5mac.com/2016/05/13/apple-officially-acknowledges-...
  - coldtea 10y ago
    One random user? Which they officially acknowledged even? This might be a less than a stellar record, but not because of that link.
    - imron 10y ago
      That was just the first link from a Google search. Internet forums are full of other users complaining of the same problem. Even if it only affects 0.1% of users, multiply that by the tens of millions, and that's a large number of people having a horrible experience. It works great for you, until you're in the 0.1% then it's a bitch. Edit: and it's not just music, it's a mulit-year history of botching up sync across multiple different technologies - some of which I've experienced first hand, some of which I've had friends complain of. Either way, Apple have zero credibility with me and syncing.

oakenclast 10y ago

I've been using Apple operating systems for most of my computing, since the Apple IIe. I started using OS X in 2001. Every since the release of 10.7, I have just been disappointed with their releases. Now that they are releasing major updates on a yearly press-release driven schedule, their quality has suffered. And their drive towards making the desktop more like iOS seems to cater more to non-technical consumers than developers. I have been happily exploring Linux the past year, mostly in VMs trying out different distros. I kinda doubt I will upgrade to macOS.

jarjoura 10y ago
What version of Mac OS was ever meant for more technical consumers though? Apple's DNA has always been consumer product focused in everything they build.
- sdkmvx 10y ago
  Obviously they were never exclusively marketed towards technical users, but Apple was definitely targeting the UNIX workstation and multimedia workstation markets in the early 2000s. See http://www.brainmapping.org/MarkCohen/UNIXad.pdf http://www.brainmapping.org/MarkCohen/UNIXad.pdf
  - jarjoura 10y ago
    That's an ad for the PowerBook G4 marketed to power users of the platform. See http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/performance/ http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/performance/ for comparison of the difference in marketing. Also see http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/black_macbook.jpg http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/black_... when the black macbook was launched.
tarsinge 10y ago
We don't share the same memories of the 90's

Ezhik 10y ago

I thought I had at least 20 years before being scared of new technology. Still sitting on OS X 10.10 scared to update, and completely disinterested in most cloud stuff except for my OneDrive folder. Time to look into Linux, I suppose, since I'm about to become one of those people.

TheCoreh 10y ago
Out of curiosity, what scared you away from 10.11?
- beedogs 10y ago
  For one thing, it breaks nearly every audio application (Serato, Ableton, etc.)
- tajen 10y ago
  That Apple doesn't do quality anymore? For Mac OS, system bugs are increasing release after release, kernel panics were introduced in Mavericks and didn't go away with El Capitan even though it was supposed to be a bugfix-centric release. I also have deactivated upgrades.
  - kingnothing 10y ago
    For whatever it's worth, El Capitan hasn't been any worse than previous versions of OS X that I've used over the past 6 years.
  - runn1ng 10y ago
    If you are scared of updates breaking stuff, Linux is not the best choice either. Updates to OS regularly breaks graphics and Wi-Fi drivers for me; after every second update I have to solve "why is everything black" and "why are all videos green". Of all the things I disliked on OS X when I moved to Linux, instability with updates is even worse here.
    - wtracy 10y ago

sidcool 10y ago

That last video was inspiring. We the Developers.

tostitos1979 10y ago

I was really hoping for a Macbook pro with a more up-to-date CPU. Or an upgrade of the non-pro iPad. Really disappointed.

johns 10y ago
WWDC is about software. Hardware updates mostly happen later in the year.
- TulliusCicero 10y ago
  It's been a while since the Macbook air and pros have been refreshed (no Skylake!), that's why people were thinking it might happen here.
- ta_donk_gt 10y ago
  Actually, a number of hardware announcements and unveilings have happened at WWDC over the years. A couple of iPhones unveiled, a few Macbook Pros (including last year, I believe, as well as 2012 with the first retina MBP), and a few others.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
    Maybe WWDC will have less hardware given Apple have so much software now, though.

kybernetyk 10y ago

I'm disappointed. After them announcing the subscription pricing changes, paid search results, etc. in a press conference because "we can't fit all into the keynote" I expected more. Instead we got 20 minutes of adults playing with emojis. Not what I would expect from a developer conference keynote. /edit: Thanks for the hint to watch the State of the Union video.

mayoff 10y ago
The stuff announced last week is mainly of interest to developers, not end users. Most of what was in the keynote was for end users. That said, I'd be surprised if they couldn't fit last week's stuff into the Platforms State of the Union (later today), which is basically the developer-oriented keynote.
M4v3R 10y ago
Wait for the Platforms State of the Union video, it will be probably available in few hours on Apple's developers website [1]. It's basically another keynote, but more developer oriented. https://developer.apple.com/videos/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/ Edit: mayoff beat me to it :)
- 0942v8653 10y ago
  https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/102/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/102/ Not available yet, but when it is, it will be at this link.

more-entropy 10y ago

And... where is new MBP?!

crusso 10y ago

Siri integration... getting closer. Another 30 years and we'll have the intelligent assistant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGYFEI6uLy0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGYFEI6uLy0

sidcool 10y ago

Scary they didn't talk about Xcode at all

addicted 10y ago
That will happen in the Dev SOTU later in the day.

dman 10y ago

Was hoping for a newer filesystem in this release.

STRML 10y ago
Appears there is one: https://developer.apple.com/wwdc/schedule/#/details/701 https://developer.apple.com/wwdc/schedule/#/details/701
- dman 10y ago
  Excellent news! at a developer conference I would expect this to be the headline announcement.
  - trizzle21 10y ago
    Yeah but emojis apparently are more important
drakenot 10y ago
https://developer.apple.com/wwdc/schedule/#/details/701 https://developer.apple.com/wwdc/schedule/#/details/701

gcatalfamo 10y ago

Where the hell is my new Macbook Pro? edit: :)

rimantas 10y ago
Compiling.

EGreg 10y ago

I want to know one thing: DID APPLE FINALLY MAKE WEB PUSH AVAILABLE IN iOS THE WAY THEY HAVE IN MacOS?

commandar 10y ago

Auto unlock would be a lot more interesting to me if I hadn't already been using Windows Hello on the Surface Book. I'm honestly more comfortable with that than proximity locking; I can foresee situations like stepping into a coworkers' office next to mine or to the restroom across the hall where I don't want the device to autounlock without me sitting directly in front of it.

billbrown 10y ago
MacID is a much safer (and seemingly more powerful, from what I could tell from the keynote) implementation of this idea. I've been using it for a long time and it's really solid. https://macid.co/ https://macid.co/

frik 10y ago

It was always MacOSX for me.

quadrangle 10y ago

Thankfully, I've been doing much of this mobile integration (like sharing clipboard) for a while via KDE and KDE-connect on GNU/Linux with Android/Linux! Otherwise, the entire reason I use GNU/Linux at all was when Apple added the Mac App Store and made it clear that they would eventually turn the Mac into iOS effectively, complete with the walled-garden stuff, censorship, sabotaging of GPL software (which can't go in the App Stores) etc. So, thanks Apple for introducing me to software freedom! :P

majewsky 10y ago
KDE Connect is one of the most noteworthy developments in FOSS in the last few years, precisely because it's simple and elegant and "just works", like an Apple product, while at the same time carrying all the core values of FOSS.
matt4077 10y ago
Yeah, they made it so clear that four years after the App Store was introduced, I'm still perfectly able to install Non-App Store software. And brew <anything> is more up-to-date and bug-free than apt-get. The App Store doesn't support the GPL3, but then again, neither does the Linux kernel. MIT license, by the way, is compatible with the store.
- quadrangle 10y ago
  Yeah, of course permissive licenses are compatible with anything, they just fail to preserve freedoms, see, e.g., the Apple App Store. And you're right. I mistyped. I didn't mean that Apple made the iOS direction of everything clear, I meant that they made it apparent at all with enough hints of its potential to be really worrying. I already think that the non-App-store warning message requiring changing security settings (which looks really scary to generic end-users) serves to somewhat sabotage the non-App-store market.

mikegerwitz 10y ago

Can I swipe someone's phone, walk over to their Mac, and have it unlock? Or is there something else going on that doesn't make this a really bad idea?

prirun 10y ago
You mean like, the cops, FBI, or TSA take your iphone, put it close to your laptop, and then have access to everything, probably including your encrypted hard drive? Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty bad idea.
- mikegerwitz 10y ago
  That too. I was referring to just your average person---be it a friend, spouse, coworker, or someone who just happens to be near you.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

omginternets 10y ago

What's the state of running linux (e.g. Ubuntu or Debian) on recent (< 3 years old) Mac hardware? Given what El Capitan has done to my otherwise fantastic macbook, I'm not so sure I want to keep up with their latest developments.

matt4077 10y ago
It's the state of Linux on the Desktop anywhere. Expect three hours of fiddling kernel parameters to get sleep to work as expected, followed by the same for Wifi, Sound, Graphics. To be repeated at least with every dist update. Expect different applications to use different languages, some to have menu bars within the window, some on top. Sometimes strg+c copies something, sometimes highlighting text does it. Not all applications use the same clipboard. Font rendering is inconsistent. Some applications bring their own color-, font-, kb-layout-management. Linux is excellent on the server. On the desktop it's ... not something for people complaining about OS X.
- omginternets 10y ago
  >It's the state of Linux on the Desktop anywhere. I'm a bit surprised at your comment as my experience with linux on the desktop (or laptop) has been consistently good on such things as Dells and custom-built boxes. Granted, there are a few minor bugs here and there, but overall Ubuntu and Debian seem to "just work" on commodity hardware. Maybe I've been lucky? Are you suggesting that all these problems are comorbid or that these are all possible problems one might experience (in an uncorrelated way) on Mac hardware?

therealmarv 10y ago

I waited for PiP or as Windows calls it make a Window always stay on top (like Win and Linux can do for decades) for so long and now I have to use Safari as it seems to get it working. I also doubt it will work with Flash or any live web sport streams :( What was/is so complicated to get an always on top window on OS X aka macOS?

r2dnb 10y ago

Looks like the best way to be downvoted on HN is to be critical of either Facebook or Apple - and to a lesser extent MS. That's the only way I ever managed to get downvoted.

eropple 10y ago
You were downvoted (I downvoted you) not for being critical of any company, but by aggressively making profoundly sweeping statements in a way that seemed designed to troll people. What's more, what you said is incorrect. You don't need to attend (and indeed when I worked on OS X applications I never did)--you wait less than 24 hours for the videos to be posted, or you read the documentation that describes in detail any new features of the operating system.
- r2dnb 10y ago
  You downvoted me because you disagree with me / felt mocked. No trolling but I perhaps triggered more emotion than intended. I forgot the high level of zealotry when it comed to FB and Apple. And I overlooked that only people committed to Apple would participate in a thread having this title. For the record: I highlighted the irony of calling this meeting state of the union for a company already criticized for its closeliness. "Having to attend" referred to the top-down approach. Never commented on the "you can stream/download thing". Most downvoters were emotional and totally missed the point. I would do it again to be honest. I respect your lifestyle choice, hope the conference went fine ;)
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
You were downvoted for being wrong. And now you're being downvoted again because you're whining about it, instead of just admitting that you were wrong. I see about as many people complaining that HN irrationally loves Apple as that it irrationally hates Apple. Neither one is true. Mostly HN downvotes people who don't check their facts.
- r2dnb 10y ago
  I never said that you have to attend physically. See my comment below. "Whining about it". Please avoid personal attacks.

dcgoss 10y ago

In the past year since El Capitan I have had essentially zero major issues with the software. I feel that most of the time programmers tend to overstate the bugginess of Apple software - most users I know have a consistently smooth experience.

dchest 10y ago
How can they overstate bugginess? If you didn't hit a bug yet, you luckily don't know about it. If there's a bug, there's a bug.
- dcgoss 10y ago
  Absolutely if there's a bug, there's a bug. By "overstate bugginess" I meant that some people speak as though the software is so buggy that it is difficult to use the computer (example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11895916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11895916). I personally have had a very smooth and pain-free experience with OS X/macOS 99% of the time, and many people I know have a similarly smooth experience.
  - dchest 10y ago
    Oh, I see, thanks. Yes, also still use OS X, although I hit bugs from time to time.

DonHopkins 10y ago

Wow, we're back to MacOS but now it's spelled macOS. It's like moving back into your parent's house, and noticing that some of the furniture in your room looks smaller than you remember.

shmerl 10y ago

Instead of pointless name changes, they should start supporting latest OpenGL and Vulkan.

makecheck 10y ago

As an owner of still-functioning early-2008 hardware, it stings a little to see the machine suddenly unable to “support” such a minor-looking OS update. It was easier to handle back when you saw something like a complete transformation of the OS from one version to another. There are many reasons to want a more layered software architecture, and this is one of them: I would like to be able to continue improving the core of old machines without necessarily having to support whatever else they feel like building on top. On the other hand, Apple has always done this: it blasts forward, and it always finds ways to make you just a little dissatisfied with what you have. They’re sort of brilliant at it, actually.

stephenr 10y ago
Your complaint is that an eight year old computer should run a just announced os. Most people would be fucking ecstatic that their 8 year old computer still works and runs a current OS.

insulanian 10y ago

My guess is they want to jump to v11 so they need a new name, since OS X doesn't fit anymore.

newman314 10y ago

What bums me out is the seemingly arbitrary dropping of support for older hardware. I have an older MBP that I've upgraded with SSD and mem. It works great other than being bulky for my use case (email, surfing) It relies on a iGPU so there's really no reason for support to be dropped other than Apple wanting me to upgrade.

staticfish 10y ago
I believe the older models (and by older models, those that are 8(!) years and older) were deprecated as they didn't included a couple of the execution flags for processor assisted encryption.

dghughes 10y ago

If anything you'd think Apple would or should change iOS to a new name (macMobile? or mOS?) considering Cisco had IOS first.