8 ms·

Aspiring to a Higher Plane: “Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions” (2011)

65 points by Hooke 10y ago

bsenftner 10y ago
I remember reading this out of curiosity about 3rd grade, in the US about 8-9 years old. I read the sequel right after, enjoying that too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphereland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphereland It triggered a life long interest in geometry and classical philosophical documents.
andrewfromx 10y ago
now is the time to learn about or review your understanding of a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract
Pamar 10y ago
Game author Marcus Rowland created a "Flatland RPG" as part of his Forgotten Futures project (a series of games about Scientific Romances: the genre that later became SciFi): http://www.forgottenfutures.co.uk/flatland_lite.pdf http://www.forgottenfutures.co.uk/flatland_lite.pdf
teh_klev 10y ago
Although not the same article, there was a previous discussion on HN about Flatland a few years back. There's some interesting comments and links, I'll post the link here just in case there's not much traction this time around: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2086425 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2086425
Synaesthesia 10y ago
A related book you may find interesting is "Spaceland" by Rudy Rucker - it's set in Silicon Valley during the dot-com boon - a tech executive get's a visit from the 4th dimension. It's a hilarious and modern update to Flatland.
Animats 10y ago
For people who think this universe is a simulation, maybe the simulation is possible because the next universe up has more dimensions. (Maybe the 20+ dimensions some string theorists talk about.) Despite Flatland, you can't really do much in 2D; the connectivity is too limited. 3D is a minimum for life. Computing would work better in a higher dimensional space. Propagation delay is less of a problem because you can have more things closer to each other. Cooling would be easier with an extra dimension or two into which heat could be radiated. But if higher dimensional beings want to run a universe simulation, 3D would be enough for entertainment purposes.
- theeponymous 10y ago
  When you go one level deeper, you realize that there's no difference between a simulation of a universe and a universe. This is only tangential, but a few months ago I vaporized 50mg of DMT after spending a day studying linear algebra and differential equations. You only ever take back flashes, but I remember seeing this higher-dimensional hypercube where every "face" of the cube was a 3 dimensional space. I came away from that trip feeling that our universe was just one of infinitely many solutions to a higher-dimensional equation. I still haven't decided if that makes any sense or not.
  - amelius 10y ago
    > but I remember seeing this higher-dimensional hypercube where every "face" of the cube was a 3 dimensional space Cool. Did everything else appear "flat" in comparison?
  - f_allwein 10y ago
    like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract
  - Natanael_L 10y ago
    That's basically the string theory multiverse hypothesis. Why these physical constants? Because there's at least one universe each for all of them, and you're just in one of them.
ricksplat 10y ago
If you can find it, "The Dot and the Line" is another brilliant tale along these (ahem) lines [0] I've had a look around and cannot find it online, though the excellent animated adaptation is easy to find [1] - well worth picking up the hardcopy as a beautifully designed picture book. I'd also recommend Norton Juster's other work "The Phantom Tollboth" as being another great math & science inspired kids fairy-tale type book [2] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dot_and_the_Line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dot_and_the_Line [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmSbdvzbOzY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmSbdvzbOzY [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Tollbooth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Tollbooth
clentaminator 10y ago
Something that surprised me when reading Flatland for the first time was the seemingly high levels of both sexism and classism. While the classism mostly consisted of the typical oft-repeated jabs that don't really mean anything, the sexism felt much stronger. So much so that I assumed that it was meant to be satire. But is it reflective of the views that were prevalent at the time it was written?
- ExceptionRaised 10y ago
  Flatland is satire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland#As_a_social_satire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland#As_a_social_satire
  - rubidium 10y ago
    To echo this, it was written primarily as a social satire. The mathematical part was more of a sub plot (but still fun and interesting).
- fao_ 10y ago
  The sexism, while satire, is actually one of the reasons why I found it extremely difficult to read through. If I recall correctly, I stopped halfway through out of irritation!
goldenkey 10y ago
Good satire has the ability to provoke the snobs. Your irritation is perhaps a reflection of your own lack of something.
- fao_ 10y ago
  It's snobbish that I do not think that women are a lesser species, and find the very idea repulsive? I think your argument is nothing more than a quip, and not a very good one at that.
  - goldenkey 10y ago
    Your inability to understand how periods, birth, and lack of muscle make the female portion of our species more fragile is an inability to confront uncomfortable truths. Equal rights does not mean equally capable bodies.
    - fao_ 10y ago
      The idea that equal rights should mean equally capable bodies, or that the rights and titles afforded to someone should be determined by anything other than their humanity or proven ability, is both arrogant and extremely repulsive. I shall not respond to any further comments from you, and the idea that you can persuade me out of this idea with points that are spurious at best, while simultaneously ignoring the entirety of human history, where women have fought and proven time and time again that they are equivalent in ability to men, is at best silly and at worst dangerously ignorant.
      - goldenkey 10y ago
        Equality is a mathematical term. Men and women are equal under the eyes of the law. But as for our bodies and minds, men and women are different. The book is written from a time where women still didn't have equal rights. Its just a relection of the time, not sexist and well.. not something to stick your fingers in your ears for..
- dang 10y ago
JoeDaDude 10y ago
As mentioned in the article, there were, not one, but two animated films released based on the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland:_The_Movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland:_The_Movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland_%282007_film%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland_%282007_film%29
- david-given 10y ago
  I have the second one. It's... well, I don't know whether to recommend it or not. Part of the conceit of the film is that it's continuously interrupted by snarky title cards. The action continues, you can hear the audio, but all you see is the title card. For me, this single thing completely ruined the otherwise excellent film --- they weren't required to understand the story, they didn't add anything to the theme, they just got in the way, every single time. They're painfully, painfully long, too. If there was a version of the film which was otherwise identical but without the title cards, I'd definitely suggest checking it out. As it is, YMMV. Hey, it's on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfglluny8Z0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfglluny8Z0

65 points by Hooke 10y ago

I remember reading this out of curiosity about 3rd grade, in the US about 8-9 years old. I read the sequel right after, enjoying that too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphereland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphereland It triggered a life long interest in geometry and classical philosophical documents.

andrewfromx 10y ago

now is the time to learn about or review your understanding of a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract

Pamar 10y ago

Game author Marcus Rowland created a "Flatland RPG" as part of his Forgotten Futures project (a series of games about Scientific Romances: the genre that later became SciFi): http://www.forgottenfutures.co.uk/flatland_lite.pdf http://www.forgottenfutures.co.uk/flatland_lite.pdf

teh_klev 10y ago

Although not the same article, there was a previous discussion on HN about Flatland a few years back. There's some interesting comments and links, I'll post the link here just in case there's not much traction this time around: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2086425 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2086425

Synaesthesia 10y ago

A related book you may find interesting is "Spaceland" by Rudy Rucker - it's set in Silicon Valley during the dot-com boon - a tech executive get's a visit from the 4th dimension. It's a hilarious and modern update to Flatland.

Animats 10y ago

For people who think this universe is a simulation, maybe the simulation is possible because the next universe up has more dimensions. (Maybe the 20+ dimensions some string theorists talk about.) Despite Flatland, you can't really do much in 2D; the connectivity is too limited. 3D is a minimum for life. Computing would work better in a higher dimensional space. Propagation delay is less of a problem because you can have more things closer to each other. Cooling would be easier with an extra dimension or two into which heat could be radiated. But if higher dimensional beings want to run a universe simulation, 3D would be enough for entertainment purposes.

theeponymous 10y ago
When you go one level deeper, you realize that there's no difference between a simulation of a universe and a universe. This is only tangential, but a few months ago I vaporized 50mg of DMT after spending a day studying linear algebra and differential equations. You only ever take back flashes, but I remember seeing this higher-dimensional hypercube where every "face" of the cube was a 3 dimensional space. I came away from that trip feeling that our universe was just one of infinitely many solutions to a higher-dimensional equation. I still haven't decided if that makes any sense or not.
- amelius 10y ago
  > but I remember seeing this higher-dimensional hypercube where every "face" of the cube was a 3 dimensional space Cool. Did everything else appear "flat" in comparison?
- f_allwein 10y ago
  like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract
- Natanael_L 10y ago
  That's basically the string theory multiverse hypothesis. Why these physical constants? Because there's at least one universe each for all of them, and you're just in one of them.

ricksplat 10y ago

If you can find it, "The Dot and the Line" is another brilliant tale along these (ahem) lines [0] I've had a look around and cannot find it online, though the excellent animated adaptation is easy to find [1] - well worth picking up the hardcopy as a beautifully designed picture book. I'd also recommend Norton Juster's other work "The Phantom Tollboth" as being another great math & science inspired kids fairy-tale type book [2] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dot_and_the_Line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dot_and_the_Line [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmSbdvzbOzY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmSbdvzbOzY [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Tollbooth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Tollbooth

clentaminator 10y ago

Something that surprised me when reading Flatland for the first time was the seemingly high levels of both sexism and classism. While the classism mostly consisted of the typical oft-repeated jabs that don't really mean anything, the sexism felt much stronger. So much so that I assumed that it was meant to be satire. But is it reflective of the views that were prevalent at the time it was written?

ExceptionRaised 10y ago
Flatland is satire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland#As_a_social_satire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland#As_a_social_satire
- rubidium 10y ago
  To echo this, it was written primarily as a social satire. The mathematical part was more of a sub plot (but still fun and interesting).
fao_ 10y ago
The sexism, while satire, is actually one of the reasons why I found it extremely difficult to read through. If I recall correctly, I stopped halfway through out of irritation!

goldenkey 10y ago

Good satire has the ability to provoke the snobs. Your irritation is perhaps a reflection of your own lack of something.

fao_ 10y ago
It's snobbish that I do not think that women are a lesser species, and find the very idea repulsive? I think your argument is nothing more than a quip, and not a very good one at that.
- goldenkey 10y ago
  Your inability to understand how periods, birth, and lack of muscle make the female portion of our species more fragile is an inability to confront uncomfortable truths. Equal rights does not mean equally capable bodies.
  - fao_ 10y ago
    The idea that equal rights should mean equally capable bodies, or that the rights and titles afforded to someone should be determined by anything other than their humanity or proven ability, is both arrogant and extremely repulsive. I shall not respond to any further comments from you, and the idea that you can persuade me out of this idea with points that are spurious at best, while simultaneously ignoring the entirety of human history, where women have fought and proven time and time again that they are equivalent in ability to men, is at best silly and at worst dangerously ignorant.
    - goldenkey 10y ago
      Equality is a mathematical term. Men and women are equal under the eyes of the law. But as for our bodies and minds, men and women are different. The book is written from a time where women still didn't have equal rights. Its just a relection of the time, not sexist and well.. not something to stick your fingers in your ears for..
dang 10y ago

JoeDaDude 10y ago

As mentioned in the article, there were, not one, but two animated films released based on the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland:_The_Movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland:_The_Movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland_%282007_film%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland_%282007_film%29

david-given 10y ago
I have the second one. It's... well, I don't know whether to recommend it or not. Part of the conceit of the film is that it's continuously interrupted by snarky title cards. The action continues, you can hear the audio, but all you see is the title card. For me, this single thing completely ruined the otherwise excellent film --- they weren't required to understand the story, they didn't add anything to the theme, they just got in the way, every single time. They're painfully, painfully long, too. If there was a version of the film which was otherwise identical but without the title cards, I'd definitely suggest checking it out. As it is, YMMV. Hey, it's on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfglluny8Z0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfglluny8Z0