15 ms·

Mentoring in Gaza's first hackathon

343 points by dopeboy 10y ago

faizmokhtar 10y ago
Wow, this is an awesome write-up. Kudos to you.
tuna-piano 10y ago
Great writeup. You touched on it - but was there much political talk at all? Or was it just the normal kind of conversations? How was their english?
- dopeboy 10y ago
  There was - and I usually started it. I deliberately left them off this piece. There's general angst against Hamas. There's universal mistrust of Israel. There's a good deal of division on how to engage with the Israelis / what to negotiate for. Their English is good. They could understand everything I said. Sometimes it took them awhile to express certain words and phrases. During the hackathon pitches, about half the teams opted to speak in Arabic. In these instances, judges were paired with translators.
  - meric 10y ago
    The only times I read about Gaza is when Israel had just invaded it, pictures of dead bodies and bombed out buildings. Having never seen any description of what it's like inside, reading its name brings up thoughts of suffering and sadness and nothing else. Thanks for writing this up and taking those photos. I could not have imagined there are places in Gaza that are just like my own office. It looks like a great place to be.
    - e12e 10y ago
      Your comment reminded me of Banksy's recent short film (spoof advert) on Gaza: "Make this the year YOU discover a new destination" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3e2dShY8jIo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3e2dShY8jIo
    - patrickk 10y ago
      Here's a fascinating documentary about concrete smuggling millionaires and the seafront property villas in Gaza: https://vimeo.com/101819495 https://vimeo.com/101819495
  - tuna-piano 10y ago
    Is there a reason they couldn't work for Israeli companies? Do they even know any Israelis? I'm fascinated by this. edit - so many more questions: Besides the curfew, were the girls treated / educated the same as the guys? Did people have modern hardware? Do you know if it was difficult for them to obtain? Did any of them work as software engineers for local Gaza based companies?
    - dopeboy 10y ago
      There are Palestinians that work for Israeli companies. They mostly live in the West Bank. If you live in Gaza, it's very difficult to travel out of it. The southern border to Egypt is closed. The northern border (which is the one we went through) is open but you need permits to enter Israel. The military takes its time with the permits and it's not always guaranteed you will get one. This makes a commuting sort of setup impossible. The women there were treated and educated the same. Some of them outshined the guys. I saw modern laptops and screens where ever I went. Definitely more Android than iPhone. There is difficulty around bringing in 3D printers. I did not meet any Gazans who worked for local companies. Most seemed to work for the gulf or were working on startups aimed for deployment in the gulf.
      - heh 10y ago
        As you pointed out, Egypt has the border closed and Israel has a restricted open border. People don't seem to realize that the "siege" on Gaza isn't just an Israeli-Palestinian issue, and that Israel no longer controls the Gaza Strip. It's actually controlled by the Hamas, a theocratic terrorist organization. Imagine if the W.B.C took over Kansas, started shooting rockets at your civilians in Colorado for being pot smoking heathens, and then wanted open borders? Ironically movements like the BDS actually cause Palestinians who work for Israeli companies to loose their jobs.[1] Liberal minded Israelis make up about half of the population and there are many efforts to bridge the gap through entrepreneurship [2][3]. The left in Israel did fairly well in the last election, and actually gained some seats. [4] I think if you actually talk to the Israelis and the Palestinians in tech, not the politicians, you'll see that that most of them want to live in peace with their neighbors. Also, peace is good for (start up / tech) business. [1]http://www.timesofisrael.com/victory-for-bds-as-sodastreams-last-palestinian-workers-lose-their-jobs/ http://www.timesofisrael.com/victory-for-bds-as-sodastreams-... [2]http://www.inc.com/jill-krasny/palestinian-internship-program-israel.html http://www.inc.com/jill-krasny/palestinian-internship-progra... [3]http://www.elephant.org.il/events/event-in-haifa-for-creating-joint-israeli-palestinian-startups http://www.elephant.org.il/events/event-in-haifa-for-creatin... [4]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/world/middleeast/israel-benjamin-netanyahu-next-steps.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/world/middleeast/israel-be...
  - bsaul 10y ago
    Although one could expect it, it's quite refreshing to hear the most educated people in gaza aren't all ok sacrificing their life in suicidal bombings. it makes me think that there's hope that one day they'll get rid of this fanatical regime and make peace. Could you give a few hints on what were the ideas in the pitch ? Was it about religion ? dating ? or were there some ideas more specific to their condition ?
    - dopeboy 10y ago
      Here's three actual groups from the hackathon to give you a flavor: * Homee (pronounced homie as in “what’s up homie”) - a marketplace where people can buy and sell homemade goods. Think Etsy. This group ended up winning first place. * Debate Time - a mobile app where you can review a product by submitting a video of yourself talking about it. Others reply in video form too. * Diet Time - a mobile app that let’s you enter what you ate and then tells you how much exercise you need to burn it off.
dannypgh 10y ago
Political talk is abnormal? The number of conversations I've had about Trump recently must make me an outlier, then.
- blisterpeanuts 10y ago
  You live in Gaza?
- dang 10y ago
  We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11859233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11859233 and marked it off-topic.
  - dannypgh 10y ago
    Perhaps I should have been more direct with my point: I think it is disrespectful to Palestinians to expect that their "normal conversation" doesn't include any sort of reference to their political realities, as political realities are part of everyone's normal, in any society that acts even under the pretense of democracy (and Hamas was elected). It would have been odd if people living in a territory that had electricity for six hours daily and mostly closed/highly regulated borders didn't have normal conversation about topics that are, inherently, political.
    - bbcbasic 10y ago
      I think you are overanalyzing the post that used the word "normal". I think he/she was talking colloquially and didn't mean to imply that political talk is abnormal.
  - borski 10y ago
    So, this is cool. I had absolutely no idea you could even do that. Kudos.
blisterpeanuts 10y ago
Really interesting. Shame that they can't deal directly with Israelis, with all of their start-ups and like-minded technology types.
- rangibaby 10y ago
  I can never reconcile my respect and admiration of Israeli achievements in technology with my disgust at their horrible treatment of the Palestinians.
  - davemel37 10y ago
    When I cant reconcile something, I start by questioning my own assumptions and premise.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - nandemo 10y ago
    There's no need to reconcile those sentiments. I respect and admire US achievements in technology (and music, cinema, etc), even though the US government has done and does a lot of disgusting things to non-US citizens. There's no contradiction. Also, consider what policies your fellow citizens might support if your country was surrounded by hostile neighbours. I mean, 40% of the American public supports the "Mexico Wall", even though Mexico is an important trade partner and poses no military threat to the US. Imagine if Mexico and Canada were to declare their intent to destroy the US... (not assuming you are American, above is just an example)
    - cm3 10y ago
      A better way to frame the support is in how the US defeated Germany and Japan and then helped them economically, in order to get them back up and prevent too much resentment. First and foremost Britain took no responsibility when they decided it's best to un-occupy the region, allowing the recent conflict over the same patch of land a lot of previous blood was wasted for before. Also, let's be fair and mention how much support (like Japan or Germany) the new state has gotten from the West and used that to reach where it's now. There's a difference between a regime supported while under sanctions and limited I/O ports and another that's supported freely. I'm mentioning that before anyone says Palestinians were supported from the outside as well. Regarding Israel's (the regime) support of the west bank and gaza: it's more like a prison where, despite the inmates' violent behavior trying to get out, you must support them because you're holding the key to their cells since the victory in the war. Is it right for either side to repeatedly reach out to violence as a bargaining chip? No, it's not, but not every tribe of this world subscribes to Mahatma's strategy. Well, the Norwegians did successfully when peacefully opposing the German invasion, but again, different populations act and think differently. I don't pick sides in this debate, but it's important to put things into perspective. Yes, other nations may have decimated them. Yes, both regimes have a history of undiplomatic approaches to finding consensus. No, Israel (the regime) doesn't support them out of good will.
Myrmornis 10y ago
Excellent write-up and well done for doing this! Were there any female instructors? If there had been some could they have led a female-only session in the evening?
- laughinghan 10y ago
  Context: On the first day of the 48 hour hackathon, all female participants had to leave by 6:30 PM. This is because, under Sharia law, women cannot hang out with men they are not related or married to late into the evening. (For people like me who glance at the comment thread before reading the article, or who merely skimmed the article.)
  - danharaj 10y ago
    Seeing "Sharia law" referred to as a definite entity is a little strange. It's like someone saying "under common law...". It's cromulent, but only on general principals not many specific statutes. There are several countries that follow Sharia, just like many countries follow civil law or common law. Relevant here because there are countries that follow Sharia that don't enforce such a curfew.
    - rgejman 10y ago
      Upvote for use of the word "cromulent."
    - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
      Does anyone have a definite idea which school of Sharia jurisprudence Hamas even follows?
    - cloudjacker 10y ago
      The article mentioned that the ruling government follows some part of Sharia law. And I'm sure the rest would take a lawyer to interpret, just like everywhere else, because the commoner interpretation of "why" is different than the legal or religious interpretation of "why"
  - 10y ago
Myrmornis 10y ago
What was the educational background/level of the participants? Where did they get programming skills from?
- dopeboy 10y ago
  Most were in university or had recently graduated. They got their skills from there.
Myrmornis 10y ago
Are there any relevant internet restrictions? Is there any program for remote google-hangout type help, or remote buddy system, or something?
- dopeboy 10y ago
  I didn't test the limits. All the social media and news websites that I use on a daily basis were accessible. The only interesting thing I can say is I did a visual traceroute and all traffic was routed through Ramallah which is in the West Bank. Everyone used Skype for remote work.
aidos 10y ago
What was the process like in terms of applying for the Israeli military permit? Did you experience any problems with border control moving in and out of Israel/Gaza? Did you take your own laptop? What's the internet like? I'm assuming you don't get mobile coverage? There are ground rules every mentor had to agree to before going. We could not go anywhere unaccompanied - Who's rule is this? So. Many. Questions!
- dopeboy 10y ago
  For the permit, all the basics + scan of passport, LinkedIn URL, my parents' names, and my paternal grandfather's name (!). No one had any problems at the border. Everyone is super professional and courteous. Those that were muslim and/or of palestinian decent took slightly longer. I took my own laptop. The only different thing is you have to leave it open (but not unlocked) when it goes through the scanner. We were mostly confined inside the incubator or a hotel so we had wifi most of the time. I think it's 2G or 3G otherwise. Not sure if by an Israeli carrier or a Palestinian one. The rules are set by the parent organization, Mercy Corps. They receive the bulk of their funding from USAID and my guess is those ground rules are impacted by that.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    >> "LinkedIn URL, my parents' names, and my paternal grandfather's name" Any idea why this info is required?
    - reitanqild 10y ago
      LinkedIn URL most likely was instead of a written CV. Wish companies would accept this. As for the rest, I don't know but I hear they have some issues both with rockets as well as (often) clueless western demonstrants so getting being careful and getting good background information on visitors does sound like the right thing to do.
    - dopeboy 10y ago
      As reitanqild mentioned, the LI is probably to help with basic vetting. Family names - my guess is to perform a more rigorous background check. This is probably more relevant for people of Palestinian descent.
bbcbasic 10y ago
This is turning into a very interesting AMA. Thanks dopeboy. I wanted to ask if you felt in any danger at any time. Either in Gaza on onroute through the checkpoints? What are the ambitions of the participants? Do they want to work / set up companies in Gaza or work abroad?
- dopeboy 10y ago
  I never felt in danger. But I'm also brown and everyone there told me I look Arab. It's a mix - I couldn't tell you the proportions off the top of my head. There are hard emigration realities that force Gazans to do the former.
bjourne 10y ago
Wouldn't it be cool if there was street view in Gaza? If you search for Khan Yunis you find lots of pictures of dead bodies and smoking buildings, but absolutely nothing about what the city actually looks like.
wprapido 10y ago
amazing story, dude!
partycoder 10y ago
The Gaza strip is an enemy state of Israel so, if you are Israeli, you immediately lose your citizenship by entering the Gaza strip (or any of the other enemy states). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law#Cancellation_of_citizenship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law#Cancel...
- golergka 10y ago
  Or, if you're jewish and not armed, you're just killed. Which is generally a more effective deterrent.
- bpodgursky 10y ago
  > cases in which the state can initiate a cancellation of citizenship of an Israeli citizen That is not the same thing as "you immediately lose your citizenship". Does this actually happen frequently?
  - ars 10y ago
    Israelis go to Gaza all the time - typically Muslim relatives, and sometimes aid workers.
  - slavak 10y ago
    No, no it does not. The best reference I could find with a quick Google search says the law has been used to revoke citizenship of only 2 people since the creation of the state of Israel.
astronautjones 10y ago
this is awesome. do you think you or anyone you worked with might be affected by that terrible anti-BDS law Cuomo passed (if you were in its jurisdiction?)
- wprapido 10y ago
  BDS/anti-BDS has nothing to do with prohibiting working in palestine and traveling to palestine. actually, the BDS movement affects israeli businesses in west bank by boycotting them
  - slavak 10y ago
    The BDS movement seeks to boycott all Israeli businesses, irrespective of their location.
    - wprapido 10y ago
      it does. but it hits the west bank businesses harder than others
- arikfr 10y ago
  How do you imagine Cuomo's anti-BDS law could affect him?
iamcreasy 10y ago
"I met a Gaza Sky Geeks staff member who told me about his story. His parents had to flee their ancestral home from Jaffa in 1948. He lost his childhood home in the war of 2014. He also lost friends and neighbors in the war. Despite all of this, you would never be able to guess of any of his past after talking to him. In fact, the only reason I knew to talk to him is because I overhead someone else mention his past. He’s the most upbeat, jovial guy at the space who was on his way to the U.K. in a couple days with an eye on a seed round for a startup he’s working on. One might expect atleast some chip on the shoulder, some bitterness, maybe even a little anger. I haven’t seen that from him or any of other Gazans I’ve met and that—more than anything else—has been the biggest surprise for me on this trip." This is amazing.
- kobayashi 10y ago
  The author does a pretty good job of keeping politics out of his article, but my visceral feeling is that you're trying to do quite the opposite here by choosing that specific quote. The author does not know the history of the land, nor does he claim to. But by drawing HN's readership to the quote about personal loss it's my guess that you're trying to politicize the issue. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's my hunch. I've seen many people use similar tactics before.
  - iamcreasy 10y ago
    This guy has suffered, but instead of complaining he is pushing through it. We all have our problems, but since ue live in a personal bubble, examples like this can help us put our problems in a new perspective. I am drawing attention to the amazing human resiliency, and what can we learn from it.
this2shallPass 10y ago
>>6 The gulf (UAE, Saudi, Qatar, etc) is the regional tech hub. I would imagine Israel is the regional tech hub, even if there are few to no interactions with tech people in Gaza. Would it be more accurate to say the gulf is the regional tech hub for these programmers' day to day lives?
- dopeboy 10y ago
  You're right - thank you. I've just made an edit.
  - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
    Thanks for the edit. Too often journalists phrase things in a way that implicitly equates "the Middle East" with "the Arab countries", to the exclusion of a great many people who actually live in the Middle East.
- cm3 10y ago
  Does anyone know how the IT sector is in places like Dubai? I hear about a lot of need for skilled programmers there, but it's hard to glean insight from Europe. Anyone with first-hand experience?
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    I'm living in the UAE. As far as I can tell, there is a growing demand for skilled developers, especially in web and app dev positions. Most companies hiring are small in size, usually local startups, and most of them are operating in the e-commerce space. Cool places to work at: Dubizzle[1] (Python + Django) and JadoPado[2] (PHP I believe). [1]: https://uae.dubizzle.com/ https://uae.dubizzle.com/ [2]: https://uae.jadopado.com/ https://uae.jadopado.com/
  - fudged71 10y ago
    Just from travelling to europe and dubai, the tech scene in dubai is incredibly small. There are some cowork spaces and 'accelerators', but the ecosystem needs time and effort to grow.
jalami 10y ago
My father was born in Gaza, but got out as soon as he could and went to college in the states. I'm glad this is happening! There's certainly talent there like everywhere else. A big problem I see with Gaza digging itself out of these problems is the destruction of infrastructure, inability to get supplies and the effect this has on the job market. Software development is one of those few professions that, as you touched on, allow Palestinians to find a somewhat stable flow of work. Thanks for mentoring and doing what you can there. I'd like to go and see some extended family sometime myself. Edit: How available are things like computers? I remember when my dad brought electronics over as gifts it was usually something more-or-less unattainable, but this was years ago: Super Nintendos and things like that.
- dopeboy 10y ago
  I didn't inquire but based on what I saw inside the incubator, it seemed computers were pretty available. The only iffy thing when it comes to access are 3D printers.
throwaway223223 10y ago
So very true. I think if Mexico and Canada not only declared dead their intent to destroy the US but also decided to shoot rockets onto civilians on a daily basis (as does Hamas launches from the Gaza Strip), there would definitely be a tough response should they not stop (as the military invasion of Gaza). One also needs to consider that Israel offers cost-free, no-strings-attached medical care to Palestinians who show up at their borders with Israel. Israel also provides the Hamas regime and Gazans with power, water, and internet connectivity, all of this despite being fired on daily, having their civilians kidnapped and attacked by smuggling tunnels dug straight into Isrsel's territory, and being threatened with destruction. I definitely don't agree with many decisions the Israeli government has made, but despite what many believe, Israel definitely supports the Gazans and Wesr Bank residents in many ways.
- Synaesthesia 10y ago
  Israel has occupied Gaza and West a bank, and resistance to military occupation is legal per the Geneva conventions. Gaza has always resisted the Israeli occupation hence it's punishment. There are continuous attacks upon Gaza from Israel too. The disparity in armed power and thus destruction is massive. In the last Gaza war about 20000 tons of bombs were dropped on Gaza, whereas what they launched against Israel was maybe a few tons.
  - Papirola 10y ago
    1. Israel is no longer in control of Gaza 2. if you're going to fire stuff at a x1000 stronger military power, then maybe it's time you made better decisions (ref: peace deal made by Ehud Barak back in 2000, which Arafat sunk for no good reason)
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - Synaesthesia 10y ago
      Israel is in control of Gaza, as recognized by most observers. It controls the airspace, sea, and everything that goes in and out, as well as of course the continuous incursions into the territory. According to the ceasefires which Israel has signed with Hamas, it's supposed to alleviate the siege on the strip, but it has never lived up to those ceasefires, whereas Hamas has. Continuing to devastate the territory economically, of course the people there will revolt!
askafriend 10y ago
You got any keys sittin' in the trunk or do I have to come back next week for the fresh batch, dopeboy? On a more serious note, this sounds like an amazing experience and I'm very glad you decided to share it with us. That's very interesting the type of technology experience you saw in the crowd there. Surprised you didn't see more Python, iOS/Android, or any of the Javascript frameworks like Node. The internet cutting out with the electricity must have sucked though. Especially for people without generators.....how are you gonna Stack Overflow?!
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
stale2002 10y ago
"On the first day of the 48 hour hackathon, all female participants had to leave by 6:30 PM. This is because, under Sharia law, women cannot hang out with men they are not related or married to late into the evening." Why am I not surprised.
- ahaseeb 10y ago
  There is no as such sharia law that prohibits women to be back by 6:30.
  - josh_fyi 10y ago
    No law is needed to enforce such prohibitions through various forms of pressure.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    Well apparently someone is enforcing these rules. And it is clear that Hamas supports thus enforcement
- paradite 10y ago
  I don't see how this comment adds significant value to the discussion. Anyone care to explain?
  - flyinglizard 10y ago
    But then, neither does yours.
inglor 10y ago
I'm an Israeli, I'm also a NodeJS core member and an open source guy with a lot of web experience. I've contacted Gaza Sky Geeks multiple times and offered assistance. They took almost a month to reply. Apparently, Israelis are not welcome. It's a shame that my only way to experience my neighbors is through serving in an armed forces war.
- cup 10y ago
  They probably did a cost-benefit analysis and realised the logistics and effort required to get one israeli into a gaza hackathon were not worth the pay off. Maybe you could organise a fundraiser to sponsor gazans to come to israel instead. They might like a chance to get out and have new experiences.
  - inglor 10y ago
    I offered to do remote and I offered to do it for free. They did refer me to a supporters group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/gsg-yaffa https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/gsg-yaffa It's a shame, I really do believe me and others like me have a lot to contribute and we're interested in contributing. We hate the Gazan government but we don't hate the Gaza population. I would really want to see them prosper like Israel and what better way than technology and what better way to bring it to them than to code together. We're on the same time zone too.
  - chvid 10y ago
    Can you explain this: what logistics and effort? They are taking in people from all over the world yet not next door?
    - golergka 10y ago
      Official line of Hamas is that you have to kill all israeli jews they encounter on sight — even if it means making a suicide attack. Kids in kindergarden play through scenes of stabbing, kidnappings and suicide bombings. And despite Israel's security measures, this happens (inside Israel borders, not in Gaza) almost weekly. So, if unarmed israeli would find himself on his own in Gaza, we would have a full-fledged security crisis which would probably lead to the next war (because the dude most likely would be killed) instead of a hackathon.
maciejb 10y ago
Great story! Thank you for sharing your experiences! I'm curious how did you find out about the event in the first place?
- dopeboy 10y ago
  A friend at Google passed it along. She was on a particular mailing list and it caught her eye. Google for Entrepreneurs provides some financial assistance to Gaza Sky Geeks which is probably why they put it in the mailing list in the first place.
judah 10y ago
I work part-time for an Israeli tech company and am a Zionist; I assumed your post would be ultra political and demonizing Israel. Instead, I was pleasantly surprised to see your post was thoughtful, kept politics out of it and remained focused. You're helping Gazans live better lives by teaching them a trade skill. That's a real kindness you did. Kudos.
- cloudjacker 10y ago
  I saw a presentation in person about this at one of Google's Startup conferences. I had to ask a ton of logistical questions like if they used the Israeli business formation and banking system to get funds in for seed rounds, turns out they use the UK and US because "f-ck that noise" lol so I found that interesting.
SmokyBorbon 10y ago
Wierd that all the projects were clocks.

343 points by dopeboy 10y ago

Wow, this is an awesome write-up. Kudos to you.

Great writeup. You touched on it - but was there much political talk at all? Or was it just the normal kind of conversations? How was their english?

dopeboy 10y ago
There was - and I usually started it. I deliberately left them off this piece. There's general angst against Hamas. There's universal mistrust of Israel. There's a good deal of division on how to engage with the Israelis / what to negotiate for. Their English is good. They could understand everything I said. Sometimes it took them awhile to express certain words and phrases. During the hackathon pitches, about half the teams opted to speak in Arabic. In these instances, judges were paired with translators.
- meric 10y ago
  The only times I read about Gaza is when Israel had just invaded it, pictures of dead bodies and bombed out buildings. Having never seen any description of what it's like inside, reading its name brings up thoughts of suffering and sadness and nothing else. Thanks for writing this up and taking those photos. I could not have imagined there are places in Gaza that are just like my own office. It looks like a great place to be.
  - e12e 10y ago
    Your comment reminded me of Banksy's recent short film (spoof advert) on Gaza: "Make this the year YOU discover a new destination" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3e2dShY8jIo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3e2dShY8jIo
  - patrickk 10y ago
    Here's a fascinating documentary about concrete smuggling millionaires and the seafront property villas in Gaza: https://vimeo.com/101819495 https://vimeo.com/101819495
- tuna-piano 10y ago
  Is there a reason they couldn't work for Israeli companies? Do they even know any Israelis? I'm fascinated by this. edit - so many more questions: Besides the curfew, were the girls treated / educated the same as the guys? Did people have modern hardware? Do you know if it was difficult for them to obtain? Did any of them work as software engineers for local Gaza based companies?
  - dopeboy 10y ago
    There are Palestinians that work for Israeli companies. They mostly live in the West Bank. If you live in Gaza, it's very difficult to travel out of it. The southern border to Egypt is closed. The northern border (which is the one we went through) is open but you need permits to enter Israel. The military takes its time with the permits and it's not always guaranteed you will get one. This makes a commuting sort of setup impossible. The women there were treated and educated the same. Some of them outshined the guys. I saw modern laptops and screens where ever I went. Definitely more Android than iPhone. There is difficulty around bringing in 3D printers. I did not meet any Gazans who worked for local companies. Most seemed to work for the gulf or were working on startups aimed for deployment in the gulf.
    - heh 10y ago
      As you pointed out, Egypt has the border closed and Israel has a restricted open border. People don't seem to realize that the "siege" on Gaza isn't just an Israeli-Palestinian issue, and that Israel no longer controls the Gaza Strip. It's actually controlled by the Hamas, a theocratic terrorist organization. Imagine if the W.B.C took over Kansas, started shooting rockets at your civilians in Colorado for being pot smoking heathens, and then wanted open borders? Ironically movements like the BDS actually cause Palestinians who work for Israeli companies to loose their jobs.[1] Liberal minded Israelis make up about half of the population and there are many efforts to bridge the gap through entrepreneurship [2][3]. The left in Israel did fairly well in the last election, and actually gained some seats. [4] I think if you actually talk to the Israelis and the Palestinians in tech, not the politicians, you'll see that that most of them want to live in peace with their neighbors. Also, peace is good for (start up / tech) business. [1]http://www.timesofisrael.com/victory-for-bds-as-sodastreams-last-palestinian-workers-lose-their-jobs/ http://www.timesofisrael.com/victory-for-bds-as-sodastreams-... [2]http://www.inc.com/jill-krasny/palestinian-internship-program-israel.html http://www.inc.com/jill-krasny/palestinian-internship-progra... [3]http://www.elephant.org.il/events/event-in-haifa-for-creating-joint-israeli-palestinian-startups http://www.elephant.org.il/events/event-in-haifa-for-creatin... [4]http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/world/middleeast/israel-benjamin-netanyahu-next-steps.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/24/world/middleeast/israel-be...
- bsaul 10y ago
  Although one could expect it, it's quite refreshing to hear the most educated people in gaza aren't all ok sacrificing their life in suicidal bombings. it makes me think that there's hope that one day they'll get rid of this fanatical regime and make peace. Could you give a few hints on what were the ideas in the pitch ? Was it about religion ? dating ? or were there some ideas more specific to their condition ?
  - dopeboy 10y ago
    Here's three actual groups from the hackathon to give you a flavor: * Homee (pronounced homie as in “what’s up homie”) - a marketplace where people can buy and sell homemade goods. Think Etsy. This group ended up winning first place. * Debate Time - a mobile app where you can review a product by submitting a video of yourself talking about it. Others reply in video form too. * Diet Time - a mobile app that let’s you enter what you ate and then tells you how much exercise you need to burn it off.

dannypgh 10y ago

Political talk is abnormal? The number of conversations I've had about Trump recently must make me an outlier, then.

blisterpeanuts 10y ago
You live in Gaza?
dang 10y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11859233 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11859233 and marked it off-topic.
- dannypgh 10y ago
  Perhaps I should have been more direct with my point: I think it is disrespectful to Palestinians to expect that their "normal conversation" doesn't include any sort of reference to their political realities, as political realities are part of everyone's normal, in any society that acts even under the pretense of democracy (and Hamas was elected). It would have been odd if people living in a territory that had electricity for six hours daily and mostly closed/highly regulated borders didn't have normal conversation about topics that are, inherently, political.
  - bbcbasic 10y ago
    I think you are overanalyzing the post that used the word "normal". I think he/she was talking colloquially and didn't mean to imply that political talk is abnormal.
- borski 10y ago
  So, this is cool. I had absolutely no idea you could even do that. Kudos.

blisterpeanuts 10y ago

Really interesting. Shame that they can't deal directly with Israelis, with all of their start-ups and like-minded technology types.

rangibaby 10y ago
I can never reconcile my respect and admiration of Israeli achievements in technology with my disgust at their horrible treatment of the Palestinians.
- davemel37 10y ago
  When I cant reconcile something, I start by questioning my own assumptions and premise.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- nandemo 10y ago
  There's no need to reconcile those sentiments. I respect and admire US achievements in technology (and music, cinema, etc), even though the US government has done and does a lot of disgusting things to non-US citizens. There's no contradiction. Also, consider what policies your fellow citizens might support if your country was surrounded by hostile neighbours. I mean, 40% of the American public supports the "Mexico Wall", even though Mexico is an important trade partner and poses no military threat to the US. Imagine if Mexico and Canada were to declare their intent to destroy the US... (not assuming you are American, above is just an example)
  - cm3 10y ago
    A better way to frame the support is in how the US defeated Germany and Japan and then helped them economically, in order to get them back up and prevent too much resentment. First and foremost Britain took no responsibility when they decided it's best to un-occupy the region, allowing the recent conflict over the same patch of land a lot of previous blood was wasted for before. Also, let's be fair and mention how much support (like Japan or Germany) the new state has gotten from the West and used that to reach where it's now. There's a difference between a regime supported while under sanctions and limited I/O ports and another that's supported freely. I'm mentioning that before anyone says Palestinians were supported from the outside as well. Regarding Israel's (the regime) support of the west bank and gaza: it's more like a prison where, despite the inmates' violent behavior trying to get out, you must support them because you're holding the key to their cells since the victory in the war. Is it right for either side to repeatedly reach out to violence as a bargaining chip? No, it's not, but not every tribe of this world subscribes to Mahatma's strategy. Well, the Norwegians did successfully when peacefully opposing the German invasion, but again, different populations act and think differently. I don't pick sides in this debate, but it's important to put things into perspective. Yes, other nations may have decimated them. Yes, both regimes have a history of undiplomatic approaches to finding consensus. No, Israel (the regime) doesn't support them out of good will.

Myrmornis 10y ago

Excellent write-up and well done for doing this! Were there any female instructors? If there had been some could they have led a female-only session in the evening?

laughinghan 10y ago
Context: On the first day of the 48 hour hackathon, all female participants had to leave by 6:30 PM. This is because, under Sharia law, women cannot hang out with men they are not related or married to late into the evening. (For people like me who glance at the comment thread before reading the article, or who merely skimmed the article.)
- danharaj 10y ago
  Seeing "Sharia law" referred to as a definite entity is a little strange. It's like someone saying "under common law...". It's cromulent, but only on general principals not many specific statutes. There are several countries that follow Sharia, just like many countries follow civil law or common law. Relevant here because there are countries that follow Sharia that don't enforce such a curfew.
  - rgejman 10y ago
    Upvote for use of the word "cromulent."
  - eli_gottlieb 10y ago
    Does anyone have a definite idea which school of Sharia jurisprudence Hamas even follows?
  - cloudjacker 10y ago
    The article mentioned that the ruling government follows some part of Sharia law. And I'm sure the rest would take a lawyer to interpret, just like everywhere else, because the commoner interpretation of "why" is different than the legal or religious interpretation of "why"
- 10y ago

Myrmornis 10y ago

What was the educational background/level of the participants? Where did they get programming skills from?

dopeboy 10y ago
Most were in university or had recently graduated. They got their skills from there.

Myrmornis 10y ago

Are there any relevant internet restrictions? Is there any program for remote google-hangout type help, or remote buddy system, or something?

dopeboy 10y ago
I didn't test the limits. All the social media and news websites that I use on a daily basis were accessible. The only interesting thing I can say is I did a visual traceroute and all traffic was routed through Ramallah which is in the West Bank. Everyone used Skype for remote work.

aidos 10y ago

What was the process like in terms of applying for the Israeli military permit? Did you experience any problems with border control moving in and out of Israel/Gaza? Did you take your own laptop? What's the internet like? I'm assuming you don't get mobile coverage? There are ground rules every mentor had to agree to before going. We could not go anywhere unaccompanied - Who's rule is this? So. Many. Questions!

dopeboy 10y ago
For the permit, all the basics + scan of passport, LinkedIn URL, my parents' names, and my paternal grandfather's name (!). No one had any problems at the border. Everyone is super professional and courteous. Those that were muslim and/or of palestinian decent took slightly longer. I took my own laptop. The only different thing is you have to leave it open (but not unlocked) when it goes through the scanner. We were mostly confined inside the incubator or a hotel so we had wifi most of the time. I think it's 2G or 3G otherwise. Not sure if by an Israeli carrier or a Palestinian one. The rules are set by the parent organization, Mercy Corps. They receive the bulk of their funding from USAID and my guess is those ground rules are impacted by that.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  >> "LinkedIn URL, my parents' names, and my paternal grandfather's name" Any idea why this info is required?
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    LinkedIn URL most likely was instead of a written CV. Wish companies would accept this. As for the rest, I don't know but I hear they have some issues both with rockets as well as (often) clueless western demonstrants so getting being careful and getting good background information on visitors does sound like the right thing to do.
  - dopeboy 10y ago
    As reitanqild mentioned, the LI is probably to help with basic vetting. Family names - my guess is to perform a more rigorous background check. This is probably more relevant for people of Palestinian descent.

bbcbasic 10y ago

This is turning into a very interesting AMA. Thanks dopeboy. I wanted to ask if you felt in any danger at any time. Either in Gaza on onroute through the checkpoints? What are the ambitions of the participants? Do they want to work / set up companies in Gaza or work abroad?

dopeboy 10y ago
I never felt in danger. But I'm also brown and everyone there told me I look Arab. It's a mix - I couldn't tell you the proportions off the top of my head. There are hard emigration realities that force Gazans to do the former.

bjourne 10y ago

Wouldn't it be cool if there was street view in Gaza? If you search for Khan Yunis you find lots of pictures of dead bodies and smoking buildings, but absolutely nothing about what the city actually looks like.

wprapido 10y ago

amazing story, dude!

partycoder 10y ago

The Gaza strip is an enemy state of Israel so, if you are Israeli, you immediately lose your citizenship by entering the Gaza strip (or any of the other enemy states). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law#Cancellation_of_citizenship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law#Cancel...

golergka 10y ago
Or, if you're jewish and not armed, you're just killed. Which is generally a more effective deterrent.
bpodgursky 10y ago
> cases in which the state can initiate a cancellation of citizenship of an Israeli citizen That is not the same thing as "you immediately lose your citizenship". Does this actually happen frequently?
- ars 10y ago
  Israelis go to Gaza all the time - typically Muslim relatives, and sometimes aid workers.
- slavak 10y ago
  No, no it does not. The best reference I could find with a quick Google search says the law has been used to revoke citizenship of only 2 people since the creation of the state of Israel.

astronautjones 10y ago

this is awesome. do you think you or anyone you worked with might be affected by that terrible anti-BDS law Cuomo passed (if you were in its jurisdiction?)

wprapido 10y ago
BDS/anti-BDS has nothing to do with prohibiting working in palestine and traveling to palestine. actually, the BDS movement affects israeli businesses in west bank by boycotting them
- slavak 10y ago
  The BDS movement seeks to boycott all Israeli businesses, irrespective of their location.
  - wprapido 10y ago
    it does. but it hits the west bank businesses harder than others
arikfr 10y ago
How do you imagine Cuomo's anti-BDS law could affect him?

iamcreasy 10y ago

"I met a Gaza Sky Geeks staff member who told me about his story. His parents had to flee their ancestral home from Jaffa in 1948. He lost his childhood home in the war of 2014. He also lost friends and neighbors in the war. Despite all of this, you would never be able to guess of any of his past after talking to him. In fact, the only reason I knew to talk to him is because I overhead someone else mention his past. He’s the most upbeat, jovial guy at the space who was on his way to the U.K. in a couple days with an eye on a seed round for a startup he’s working on. One might expect atleast some chip on the shoulder, some bitterness, maybe even a little anger. I haven’t seen that from him or any of other Gazans I’ve met and that—more than anything else—has been the biggest surprise for me on this trip." This is amazing.

kobayashi 10y ago
The author does a pretty good job of keeping politics out of his article, but my visceral feeling is that you're trying to do quite the opposite here by choosing that specific quote. The author does not know the history of the land, nor does he claim to. But by drawing HN's readership to the quote about personal loss it's my guess that you're trying to politicize the issue. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's my hunch. I've seen many people use similar tactics before.
- iamcreasy 10y ago
  This guy has suffered, but instead of complaining he is pushing through it. We all have our problems, but since ue live in a personal bubble, examples like this can help us put our problems in a new perspective. I am drawing attention to the amazing human resiliency, and what can we learn from it.

this2shallPass 10y ago

>>6 The gulf (UAE, Saudi, Qatar, etc) is the regional tech hub. I would imagine Israel is the regional tech hub, even if there are few to no interactions with tech people in Gaza. Would it be more accurate to say the gulf is the regional tech hub for these programmers' day to day lives?

dopeboy 10y ago
You're right - thank you. I've just made an edit.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  Thanks for the edit. Too often journalists phrase things in a way that implicitly equates "the Middle East" with "the Arab countries", to the exclusion of a great many people who actually live in the Middle East.
cm3 10y ago
Does anyone know how the IT sector is in places like Dubai? I hear about a lot of need for skilled programmers there, but it's hard to glean insight from Europe. Anyone with first-hand experience?
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  I'm living in the UAE. As far as I can tell, there is a growing demand for skilled developers, especially in web and app dev positions. Most companies hiring are small in size, usually local startups, and most of them are operating in the e-commerce space. Cool places to work at: Dubizzle[1] (Python + Django) and JadoPado[2] (PHP I believe). [1]: https://uae.dubizzle.com/ https://uae.dubizzle.com/ [2]: https://uae.jadopado.com/ https://uae.jadopado.com/
- fudged71 10y ago
  Just from travelling to europe and dubai, the tech scene in dubai is incredibly small. There are some cowork spaces and 'accelerators', but the ecosystem needs time and effort to grow.

jalami 10y ago

My father was born in Gaza, but got out as soon as he could and went to college in the states. I'm glad this is happening! There's certainly talent there like everywhere else. A big problem I see with Gaza digging itself out of these problems is the destruction of infrastructure, inability to get supplies and the effect this has on the job market. Software development is one of those few professions that, as you touched on, allow Palestinians to find a somewhat stable flow of work. Thanks for mentoring and doing what you can there. I'd like to go and see some extended family sometime myself. Edit: How available are things like computers? I remember when my dad brought electronics over as gifts it was usually something more-or-less unattainable, but this was years ago: Super Nintendos and things like that.

dopeboy 10y ago
I didn't inquire but based on what I saw inside the incubator, it seemed computers were pretty available. The only iffy thing when it comes to access are 3D printers.

throwaway223223 10y ago

So very true. I think if Mexico and Canada not only declared dead their intent to destroy the US but also decided to shoot rockets onto civilians on a daily basis (as does Hamas launches from the Gaza Strip), there would definitely be a tough response should they not stop (as the military invasion of Gaza). One also needs to consider that Israel offers cost-free, no-strings-attached medical care to Palestinians who show up at their borders with Israel. Israel also provides the Hamas regime and Gazans with power, water, and internet connectivity, all of this despite being fired on daily, having their civilians kidnapped and attacked by smuggling tunnels dug straight into Isrsel's territory, and being threatened with destruction. I definitely don't agree with many decisions the Israeli government has made, but despite what many believe, Israel definitely supports the Gazans and Wesr Bank residents in many ways.

Synaesthesia 10y ago
Israel has occupied Gaza and West a bank, and resistance to military occupation is legal per the Geneva conventions. Gaza has always resisted the Israeli occupation hence it's punishment. There are continuous attacks upon Gaza from Israel too. The disparity in armed power and thus destruction is massive. In the last Gaza war about 20000 tons of bombs were dropped on Gaza, whereas what they launched against Israel was maybe a few tons.
- Papirola 10y ago
  1. Israel is no longer in control of Gaza 2. if you're going to fire stuff at a x1000 stronger military power, then maybe it's time you made better decisions (ref: peace deal made by Ehud Barak back in 2000, which Arafat sunk for no good reason)
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Synaesthesia 10y ago
    Israel is in control of Gaza, as recognized by most observers. It controls the airspace, sea, and everything that goes in and out, as well as of course the continuous incursions into the territory. According to the ceasefires which Israel has signed with Hamas, it's supposed to alleviate the siege on the strip, but it has never lived up to those ceasefires, whereas Hamas has. Continuing to devastate the territory economically, of course the people there will revolt!

askafriend 10y ago

You got any keys sittin' in the trunk or do I have to come back next week for the fresh batch, dopeboy? On a more serious note, this sounds like an amazing experience and I'm very glad you decided to share it with us. That's very interesting the type of technology experience you saw in the crowd there. Surprised you didn't see more Python, iOS/Android, or any of the Javascript frameworks like Node. The internet cutting out with the electricity must have sucked though. Especially for people without generators.....how are you gonna Stack Overflow?!

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

stale2002 10y ago

"On the first day of the 48 hour hackathon, all female participants had to leave by 6:30 PM. This is because, under Sharia law, women cannot hang out with men they are not related or married to late into the evening." Why am I not surprised.

ahaseeb 10y ago
There is no as such sharia law that prohibits women to be back by 6:30.
- josh_fyi 10y ago
  No law is needed to enforce such prohibitions through various forms of pressure.
- stale2002 10y ago
  Well apparently someone is enforcing these rules. And it is clear that Hamas supports thus enforcement
paradite 10y ago
I don't see how this comment adds significant value to the discussion. Anyone care to explain?
- flyinglizard 10y ago
  But then, neither does yours.

inglor 10y ago

I'm an Israeli, I'm also a NodeJS core member and an open source guy with a lot of web experience. I've contacted Gaza Sky Geeks multiple times and offered assistance. They took almost a month to reply. Apparently, Israelis are not welcome. It's a shame that my only way to experience my neighbors is through serving in an armed forces war.

cup 10y ago
They probably did a cost-benefit analysis and realised the logistics and effort required to get one israeli into a gaza hackathon were not worth the pay off. Maybe you could organise a fundraiser to sponsor gazans to come to israel instead. They might like a chance to get out and have new experiences.
- inglor 10y ago
  I offered to do remote and I offered to do it for free. They did refer me to a supporters group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/gsg-yaffa https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/gsg-yaffa It's a shame, I really do believe me and others like me have a lot to contribute and we're interested in contributing. We hate the Gazan government but we don't hate the Gaza population. I would really want to see them prosper like Israel and what better way than technology and what better way to bring it to them than to code together. We're on the same time zone too.
- chvid 10y ago
  Can you explain this: what logistics and effort? They are taking in people from all over the world yet not next door?
  - golergka 10y ago
    Official line of Hamas is that you have to kill all israeli jews they encounter on sight — even if it means making a suicide attack. Kids in kindergarden play through scenes of stabbing, kidnappings and suicide bombings. And despite Israel's security measures, this happens (inside Israel borders, not in Gaza) almost weekly. So, if unarmed israeli would find himself on his own in Gaza, we would have a full-fledged security crisis which would probably lead to the next war (because the dude most likely would be killed) instead of a hackathon.

maciejb 10y ago

Great story! Thank you for sharing your experiences! I'm curious how did you find out about the event in the first place?

dopeboy 10y ago
A friend at Google passed it along. She was on a particular mailing list and it caught her eye. Google for Entrepreneurs provides some financial assistance to Gaza Sky Geeks which is probably why they put it in the mailing list in the first place.

judah 10y ago

I work part-time for an Israeli tech company and am a Zionist; I assumed your post would be ultra political and demonizing Israel. Instead, I was pleasantly surprised to see your post was thoughtful, kept politics out of it and remained focused. You're helping Gazans live better lives by teaching them a trade skill. That's a real kindness you did. Kudos.

cloudjacker 10y ago
I saw a presentation in person about this at one of Google's Startup conferences. I had to ask a ton of logistical questions like if they used the Israeli business formation and banking system to get funds in for seed rounds, turns out they use the UK and US because "f-ck that noise" lol so I found that interesting.

SmokyBorbon 10y ago

Wierd that all the projects were clocks.