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How do you mean The Pirate Bay is set up explicitly for finding pirated material? Where does that come from? They are set up for finding torrents. Torrents can
by dragandj 10y ago
How do you mean The Pirate Bay is set up explicitly for finding pirated material? Where does that come from? They are set up for finding torrents. Torrents can be and often are completely legitimate. Sometimes they contain pirated material, but even that material is never in contact with TPB site.
About the name: Yes, it contains the word "Pirate". It doesn't mean that the actual pirates are there. Also, Amazon is a legitimate online store, not a river with a surrounding jungle. Kayak does not sell kayaks, and Apple is not about apples at all.
- efdee 10y agoTake a look at https://thepiratebay.org/browse https://thepiratebay.org/browse. Do you still want to argue that TPB was not set up for finding pirated material?
- toomuchtodo 10y ago> Do you still want to argue that TPB was not set up for finding pirated material? Providing metadata is now sufficient to be infringing? If I SHA256 hash my entire media library and post it online, is that infringing?
- hasenj 10y agoYour comparison is ludicrous. How would you like if someone found your address and posted detailed instructions about how to get to your house, what hours of the day you're not there, and what type of security (if any at all) is installed? Maybe along with other "metadata", such as information about your neighbours, your job, your family members, etc. Enough to enable someone to perform social engineering on your neighbour or relatives to get them to open the door for them when you're not there.
- analognoise 10y agoAnd a list of his deepest fears. Never forget the list.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ultramancool 10y agoThat's a bit of an insane analogy. Perhaps if they publish the my name instead? They don't even publish how to get that to my actual address. Instead the clients have to do the look it up in a phone book as they do in a DHT. An infohash is not exactly revealing metadata. Similar to publishing just your name and nothing else. Of course, it's still a pretty crazy stretch because a name reveals even more than the infohash does.
- joering2 10y agoLook like you been sleeping under the rock for the last 10 years. All what you mention I can find legally in free databases and Facebook, not to mention legal but pay-to-access sites too, or simply firing a PI. Just give me your full name and age (I don't need exact DOB) and bitcoin me 20 bucks for a few paid sites and I will delivery you a full detailed portfolio on your persona that will be 50 pages thick.
- JetSpiegel 10y ago"You can't scare me with this Gestapo crap."
- PeterisP 10y agoThat would also not be a violation of copyright laws, so his comparison is quite appropriate. Posting that could violate some other laws, maybe it could constitute harassment, depending on where you live - but it's not a violation of copyright, and if you would file a DMCA request to take that down you would be rightly declined. You can post a lot of things on the internet that might be bad, illegal, or both - but only a narrow subset of that is a violation of copyright, and all the rest, including magnet data, private address information, stolen credit card data, etc are out of scope for DMCA.
- icebraining 10y agoAs much as it pains me, I have to disagree; in 17 U.S. Code § 512 (d), it says providers have to comply with the DMCA takedown requests if they want to avoid being convicted of "infringement of copyright by reason of the provider referring or linking users to an online location containing infringing material or infringing activity, by using information location tools, including a directory, index, reference, pointer, or hypertext link". https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512
- robhu 10y agoA US law which does not apply to the non-US entity TPB, surely?
- AnthonyMouse 10y agoTechnically that says they "shall not be liable" for those things if they comply with the DMCA takedown process. It doesn't say anything about what happens if they don't. There is some caselaw about what happens in that case (e.g. Grokster) but it's more complicated than "if you link to The Hollywood there is jail."
- ethbro 10y agoI thought the typical weighing was made based on whether there was potential for substantial non-infringing use. Half the inventions of modern society wouldn't be legal if the criteria were instead "can be used for illegal purposes."
- dragandj 10y agoTPB does not contain anything like that. TPB says: There exists someone who goes by name John Smith. Ask around for him.
- csydas 10y agoI think this is not an apt comparison. The commenter you're responding to is being slightly coy, yes, but they're not really wrong in that there is a difference between purpose and ability, both legally and in terms of plain common sense. Thepiratebay can be used for piracy, and personally, there is little doubt in my mind that piracy is what many users go to the site for. However, the mechanisms by which TPB operates are by no means exclusive to piracy nor do they encourage it. That is, to the best of my knowledge, there is no payout for having a popular link on TPB. The TPB folk do not actively seek any specific type of content, nor to the best of anyone's knowledge do they have agreements with actual pirates to have said pirates release their content on TPB. Their website does not encourage users to download pirated content, nor does it intentionally direct them towards it. (Recent/Top100 links are algorithmically determined, not intentionally curated by TPB staff, so I posit this is not directing users towards pirated content, even if sometimes that is the end result) Like the above poster wrote, TPB is a search engine that is restricted exclusively to their database (the tracker). To call such a broad idea "piracy" is really poor from any legal or common sense standpoint, as the very act of searching in this manner is not in and of itself a crime. I understand that you're frustrated that the poster is refusing to outright say people use TPB primarily to pirate, but the entire basis of the argument for TPB is the same as virtually any other aggregate site; they are not purposefully or willfully collecting pirated content, and as long as they are DCMA compliant, which according to both easyDNS and TPB is true, I see no reason why they should be removed. If the law changes and further defines the legality of what is and is not allowed on a website, then there will be at least legal grounds for removing TPB. As it stands, the legal attempts to remove TPB are very grand and sweeping, and outside of when they were ignoring takedown notices (which early on were from jurisdictions foreign to where the operators and servers were hosted), there is very little justification to "shut down the site" like the RIAA is requesting. These organizations have a legal venue, and it is the DCMA and all of its already over-reaching power. The fact that these organizations have to do their job is not a reason to further restrict content online, be it in the name of stopping piracy or not.
- Karunamon 10y agoMinor pedantry: TPB doesn't even have a proper tracker anymore. All the links are magnets, meaning you're picking up the metadata from the DHT network, not TPB itself. They are literally nothing more than a search engine for titles attached to DHT hashes.
- dragandj 10y agoI prefer the search interface, where I often find the legitimate content that interests me. Then, I download that content from other users, not from TPB.
- Retr0spectrum 10y agoThe same goes for google: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1080p+google+docs https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1080p+google+docs
- efdee 10y agoTake a look at https://thepiratebay.org/browse https://thepiratebay.org/browse. Do you still want to argue that TPB was not set up for finding pirated material?
- serge2k 10y agoYou are either in denial or being deliberately obstinate if you claim the pirate bay isn't primarily used to facilitate piracy.
- dragandj 10y agoI do not care what some users use it for. In itself, TPB hosts magnet links (hash sums). That's all. What people use to calculate those sums is not under control of TPB.
- hasenj 10y agosome? That "some" portion is 99.999% of users. If you were honest, you would say "I don't care that 1% might be using it for legitimate torrents"
- dragandj 10y agoHow do you know? And even if it is - complain to those users. TPB does and can not control the contents that users use to calculate hashes. 100% of hashsums on TPB are legal. These are genuine numbers. They don't even uniquely identify the (supposedly illegitimate) contents on users' computers since different sources can produce identical hashsums.
- rhizome 10y agoHow did you come up with "99.999%?" Please show your work.
- techthroway443 10y agoCheck out the Top100 links to get an idea how the site is used.
- dragandj 10y agoAll I can see is that people use it to advertise the TOC of their folders. The links do not even guarantee that the files in those folders match description. But, I don't see what TPB has with that? None of these is on TPB. The users don't even use TPB to connect, but to get magnet links that are only an entrance to the network. If I post this here: a4c5fd525f15cf929d6a38b0ccb854b4f88b2385 what can you claim about that hash?
- hasenj 10y agoDon't talk to me in legalese. I'm not a judge nor a lawyer. I'm not a policeman or a law enforcement agent of any type. We all know what TPB is for.
- Idontagree 10y agoWow, effective response, yeaaaaaaaaaaaa
- zbraniecki 10y agoAll we know is what you use it for. And maybe that you seem to not be aware of the legal content available on TPB.
- Retr0spectrum 10y agoWe all know. However, this is a legal issue. To my knowledge, TPB has never explicitly stated an illegal intent. Google indexes both legal and illegal content, and the same goes for TPB. Some examples: Legal: https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/14396611/ubuntu-16.04-desktop-amd64.iso https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/14396611/ubuntu-16.04-deskt... Illegal: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=game+of+thrones+s06e07+google+docs&oq=game+of+thrones+s06e07+google+docs https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=game+of+thrones+s06e07+goo... Illegal: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1080p+google+docs https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=1080p+google+docs
- joering2 10y agoIncredible especially google docs sources. just press play and enjoy 1080p!
- benmcnelly 10y agoAnyone else get a cool little "A privacy reminder from Google" link at the top?
- ikeboy 10y ago>Google indexes both legal and illegal content, and the same goes for TPB. The difference is that the DMCA says it's okay as long as you take it down when you get a DMCA notice, which Google, but not TPB, does.
- matt4077 10y agoThat argument simply isn't made in good faith, and it's a nice example of how the law doesn't work.
- avn2109 10y agoI routinely use the Pirate Bay to find torrents of Linux distros that are not even approximately "pirated material." It does have legitimate use cases.
- 542458 10y agoAs an aside to the actual argument at hand... Why not use the official downloads and torrents? Seems like you're exposing yourself to unnecessary risk like this, unless you're religious about checking every download signature against the official ones.
- Spivak 10y agoFor the same reason that people used CNET in the past for downloading software.
- pdabbadabba 10y agoThis is true (I too have used it to download a distro from time to time), but it is simply not responsive to GP's point, which is that, unlike Google, TPB does not comply with DMCA takedown requests and is "setup explicitly for the purpose of finding pirated material." When it comes to piracy, Google's situation is exactly opposite of TPB's: TPB is primarily designed to facilitate piracy, does not comply with DMCA takedown requests, and has incidental noninfringing uses. Google is not primarily designed to facilitate piracy, does comply with DMCA takedown requests, and only incidentally facilitates piracy.
- jacquesm 10y agoWhy should the DMCA apply at all? It's an American law. The fact that it implements WIPO treaties does not change that fact, in other words, being DMCA compliant is not something that entities outside of the USA should have to be.
- joering2 10y ago> How do you mean The Pirate Bay is set up explicitly for finding pirated material? I have a problem with his logic too. I use Pirate bay for finding free non copyrighted PDFs and bunch of non profit free to public copy videos and TPB search engine is the best and the fastest one. I don't recall using it to search for illegal stuff even once, just because it has Pirate in its name. Federal Express has "federal" in its name, but it doesn't mean its a government entity...
- anigbrowl 10y agoAbout the name: Yes, it contains the word "Pirate". It doesn't mean that the actual pirates are there. But they are. It's like a place where you go to meet people to transact shady business, even if the actual transaction technically takes place elsewhere (ie outside the back door).
- dragandj 10y agoSo, they should close Starbucks because some people meet there and later discuss their shady business elsewhere?
- pdabbadabba 10y agoHave you seen TPB AFK? It could not be clearer that they are intentionally facilitating piracy. You can make the case that they are doing it for ideological reason. That may (or may not) be laudable, but that does not have much bearing on the legal reality.
- dragandj 10y agoI check it out regularly, and I have never found an illegal hashsum there. Moreover, most times the magnet links their users posted there worked great and I used them to successfully connect to other users who shared their contents with me.
- squeaky-clean 10y ago>I check it out regularly, and I have never found an illegal hashsum there. Huh? TPB: AFK is a film. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2608732/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2608732/
- dragandj 10y agoDidn't know of that. Thanks for the info. I thought he was referring to TPB.