6 ms·

To offer a counterpoint, I've had several people in the family who tried to update to windows 10 and couldn't manage to do it - even with all the prompts, naggi

To offer a counterpoint, I've had several people in the family who tried to update to windows 10 and couldn't manage to do it - even with all the prompts, nagging, and supposed auto-installation. And hilariously, all you have to do is to press Next a couple of times and wait an hour. I'm one of those people who updated early, and had a lot of problems - with Wifi, touchpad, and incompatible software (Cisco VPN). And still, I'd advocate that Microsoft should just update everything automatically. Yes, it hurts some users (who should be able to opt-out easily!) but is the right option for >95% of home users. Heck, I wouldn't even announce it as a new version. If the user had Windows 7 and updates to the latest windows, keep "Windows 7" in the info box and keep the glass theme (and put the real version in the small-print). Then at some point drop the version number altogether (something I believe MS is planning to do soon anyway), and offer the user to "download the exciting modern theme for free!". The truth is, the difference between Windows 8.1 and 10 is smaller than between some service packs for previous versions. Actually, 10 rolls back some much-hated changes in 8, so it is very close to 7 in some regards. The way I see it, there are two ways to get people to run current Windows: 1) secretly update it under their seats and don't make a fuss about it or 2) make people excited so they really want to upgrade (like 95 or XP). What MS is doing now - show ads and make it look like they have ulterior motives to update your 'perfectly fine' OS - might not be the best solution...

Hermel 10y ago
That approach is not compatible with making users explicitly agree with the new privacy policy that basically allows Microsoft to access your data. So it might have been the corporate lawyers that demanded this to be an upgrade that requires explicit consent.
- captainmuon 10y ago
  True. But most of the changes to the privacy policy are to make Cortana work, which in the current state works like crap for me anyway. If they'd not shove that into their OS, but make it a separate product (that actually worked and not just opened Bing all the time), people would be more willing to sign their terms (and might even pay for it).
- Piskvorrr 10y ago
  "Requires explicit consent" my ass. Perhaps "well, we should require explicit consent, but what would happen, for example, if a bug went through the QA unnoticed and upgraded the boxes anyway?" (Highly hypothetical: my bet is still on incompetence)
roadnottaken 10y ago
Maybe this is OK for home-users, but many businesses run critical software on Windows computers. If you automatically implement upgrades that may break 3rd party software it can be a huge problem and is totally inexcusable for a business that's paying for a stable OS.
- discreditable 10y ago
  Business users have fine-grain control over Windows updates via WSUS. If they are not managing updates on critical infrastructure, something else was going to bite them eventually that might not be as polite as Windows 10.
  - warcode 10y ago
    Business users are not all enterprise users.
    - cm3 10y ago
      Yep, your local dentist won't have a WSUS, but maybe one or two Windows computers.
    - discreditable 10y ago
      You can manage updates on Pro with WSUS too.
      - Silhouette 10y ago
        Can you completely and permanently decline an update you don't want on Windows 10 Pro?
        discreditable 10y ago
        Yes. A catch with the upgrades is that when Microsoft revises them they will show up in the update queue. As long as you don't approve them your users will never seen them.
DanBC 10y ago
> but is the right option for >95% of home users. I agree. But I feel sorry for the IT support people in companies and schools.
- discreditable 10y ago
  School IT guy here. Doing fine. I use WSUS like a good boy and not a single machine out of 700 in my org has ever presented a Windows 10 popup to a user. No hacky workarounds are required.
  - bsilvereagle 10y ago
    Have you deployed Office 2016? As far as I can tell, each install must have a MSFT login associated with it and you get ~20 installs per MSFT ID.
    - discreditable 10y ago
      I've never heard of that. I've been testing Office 2016 in preparation to deploy it over the summer. I've had roughly 20 users on it and not one of them has been forced to use a Microsoft login. We don't use Office 365, could that have something to do with it?
      - bsilvereagle 10y ago
        I have a copy of Office 2016 Home & Office and I needed a MSFT ID in order to activate it. It seems the product key is then tied to that MSFT ID. So, when I leave my company this copy of Office is going to stick with my ID and cannot be activated by a new employee unless I forfeit the license. I suppose you may have bulk licenses which may not require the MSFT ID. OEM installs require the ID it seems: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2016-office_install/install-office-2016-oem-without-live-account/139e1c25-86ae-49de-ab1a-3d8f03218fa9?page=1 http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2016-... And so do retail licenses: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2016-office_install/repeat-install-office-2016-home-and-business/f8dc8e1b-8011-48b0-b019-c5546f0f6c74 http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2016-...
ZanyProgrammer 10y ago
No, your computer illiterate family members (as well as anyone who has any mental disabilities for that matter and can't understand what is going on) are going to get screwed. There's something about throwing them under the bus that doesn't sit right with me. It's almost like victim blaming your computer illiterate Windows using family members who get caught up in malicious malware downloads and stuff
- pygy_ 10y ago
  My in-laws were bitten by the "Click [x] to update" dark pattern ("The computer installed Win10 by itself") and the keyboard and trackpad were unresponsive after the update. I only had a spare keyboard laying around, and had to finish the install (disable all spyware) and delete the faulty drivers without a mouse, that wasn't exactly fun.
  - gengkev 10y ago
    Haven't there been cases where Windows 10 installed itself, only to have the EULA pop up after the installation finished?
angry-hacker 10y ago
Major problem is driver support just like you said. It renders many machines useless. No wifi. And also massive UI change. Don't even start with the new start menu etc.

Hermel 10y ago

That approach is not compatible with making users explicitly agree with the new privacy policy that basically allows Microsoft to access your data. So it might have been the corporate lawyers that demanded this to be an upgrade that requires explicit consent.

captainmuon 10y ago
True. But most of the changes to the privacy policy are to make Cortana work, which in the current state works like crap for me anyway. If they'd not shove that into their OS, but make it a separate product (that actually worked and not just opened Bing all the time), people would be more willing to sign their terms (and might even pay for it).
Piskvorrr 10y ago
"Requires explicit consent" my ass. Perhaps "well, we should require explicit consent, but what would happen, for example, if a bug went through the QA unnoticed and upgraded the boxes anyway?" (Highly hypothetical: my bet is still on incompetence)

roadnottaken 10y ago

Maybe this is OK for home-users, but many businesses run critical software on Windows computers. If you automatically implement upgrades that may break 3rd party software it can be a huge problem and is totally inexcusable for a business that's paying for a stable OS.

discreditable 10y ago
Business users have fine-grain control over Windows updates via WSUS. If they are not managing updates on critical infrastructure, something else was going to bite them eventually that might not be as polite as Windows 10.
- warcode 10y ago
  Business users are not all enterprise users.
  - cm3 10y ago
    Yep, your local dentist won't have a WSUS, but maybe one or two Windows computers.
  - discreditable 10y ago
    You can manage updates on Pro with WSUS too.
    - Silhouette 10y ago
      Can you completely and permanently decline an update you don't want on Windows 10 Pro?
      - discreditable 10y ago
        Yes. A catch with the upgrades is that when Microsoft revises them they will show up in the update queue. As long as you don't approve them your users will never seen them.

DanBC 10y ago

> but is the right option for >95% of home users. I agree. But I feel sorry for the IT support people in companies and schools.

discreditable 10y ago
School IT guy here. Doing fine. I use WSUS like a good boy and not a single machine out of 700 in my org has ever presented a Windows 10 popup to a user. No hacky workarounds are required.
- bsilvereagle 10y ago
  Have you deployed Office 2016? As far as I can tell, each install must have a MSFT login associated with it and you get ~20 installs per MSFT ID.
  - discreditable 10y ago
    I've never heard of that. I've been testing Office 2016 in preparation to deploy it over the summer. I've had roughly 20 users on it and not one of them has been forced to use a Microsoft login. We don't use Office 365, could that have something to do with it?
    - bsilvereagle 10y ago
      I have a copy of Office 2016 Home & Office and I needed a MSFT ID in order to activate it. It seems the product key is then tied to that MSFT ID. So, when I leave my company this copy of Office is going to stick with my ID and cannot be activated by a new employee unless I forfeit the license. I suppose you may have bulk licenses which may not require the MSFT ID. OEM installs require the ID it seems: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2016-office_install/install-office-2016-oem-without-live-account/139e1c25-86ae-49de-ab1a-3d8f03218fa9?page=1 http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2016-... And so do retail licenses: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2016-office_install/repeat-install-office-2016-home-and-business/f8dc8e1b-8011-48b0-b019-c5546f0f6c74 http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/office/forum/office_2016-...

ZanyProgrammer 10y ago

No, your computer illiterate family members (as well as anyone who has any mental disabilities for that matter and can't understand what is going on) are going to get screwed. There's something about throwing them under the bus that doesn't sit right with me. It's almost like victim blaming your computer illiterate Windows using family members who get caught up in malicious malware downloads and stuff

pygy_ 10y ago
My in-laws were bitten by the "Click [x] to update" dark pattern ("The computer installed Win10 by itself") and the keyboard and trackpad were unresponsive after the update. I only had a spare keyboard laying around, and had to finish the install (disable all spyware) and delete the faulty drivers without a mouse, that wasn't exactly fun.
- gengkev 10y ago
  Haven't there been cases where Windows 10 installed itself, only to have the EULA pop up after the installation finished?

angry-hacker 10y ago

Major problem is driver support just like you said. It renders many machines useless. No wifi. And also massive UI change. Don't even start with the new start menu etc.