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> But I would still need a car for commuting to work. And that sums up why the typical US mentality will continue to impede transportation progress. I can easi

> But I would still need a car for commuting to work. And that sums up why the typical US mentality will continue to impede transportation progress. I can easily carry over a week's worth of groceries to cook three meals per day for two people in one trip on my motorcycle. I ride to work every day of the year in Seattle. It's kind of like, you know, living in pretty much any other country in the world where cars are correctly seen for the luxuries they are. Having a scooter without saddlebags would be harder in that I'd probably need to get groceries twice a week, but the only things actually stopping such madness are snow and large families. I would doubt the need for a car to get work, though, if we could just use those forbidden things called school buses and public transportation.

pm90 10y ago
The only trouble I have with motorcycles is the safety aspect. My parents were involved in an accident on a two wheeler. I myself have been involved in a rather serious accident but luckily the car took almost all the damage and I escaped with minor whiplash. Its also why I would never drive a coupe other than for pleasure. Statistically, the amount of driving involved with living in most American cities makes it rather likely that one will be involved in an accident. Apologies, I don't mean to question your lifestyle. I'm merely expressing one of my biggest concerns with driving. Of course the best solution is to not have to drive so much.
wlesieutre 10y ago
You've highlighted Seattle as if it's an example of a terrible place to rely on a motorcycle, but I'd take the rain over snow, ice, and sub-zero temperatures. I'd be fine with my commute for most of the year. Having to get to work in the winter makes a pretty good case for a car though. And unless there's a bike/motorcycle that will turn into a car for three months of the year, I'm sticking to the one that works year round.
- Rumudiez 10y ago
  This past winter I actually rode several times in below freezing temperatures. I definitely wasn't comfortable, but I wasn't particularly prepared for it. Single digit and below... yeah, I'll forgive you if you can't take a bus. Short term leases would be on my mind if that were the case for me. Like I said, though, snow on the road is a good stopping point for the average driver – car or motorcycle.
khedoros 10y ago
It's a chicken+egg problem. I've considered riding a bicycle to work (it's only about 6 miles), but there are busy streets without bicycle lanes (or even sidewalks), and drivers in the area are known to be actively aggressive against cyclists. These things drive down the numbers of cyclists, which increases the general feeling that they aren't accepted, and that it's not worth it to cater to them. > if we could just use those forbidden things called school buses and public transportation. If they were available and timely? Sure. We have buses in my area. They come hourly. They aren't practical unless you have a lot of spare time, and each connecting bus compounds the problem. I can get to some nearby cities by train, but it's almost always more convenient, faster, and cheaper to drive there myself. Cars will become a luxury instead of a necessity when those problems are fixed...and those problems will be fixed when cars become unnecessary for a reasonable quality of life.
- Brakenshire 10y ago
  I suspect a lot of it is pure population density. The US needs to make downtown areas pedestrian and bike friendly, and then allow high density development near the centre. That makes the bike lanes and the bus network self supporting. In London there was a very big push to extend the bus network about 15 years ago, by the left-wing mayor (who had been given newly created powers). He also introduced a congestion charge for other vehicles. Both policies were quickly supported across the political spectrum. In central London few people use cars now, it is just far more of a hassle. The last mayor expanded bike lanes a lot, and now bike journeys are on course to overtake car journeys in central London. The big development definitely helped to establish the network, but it happened on top of high density (in the number of people working in the centre, if not actually living there). And now we are getting much more housing closer to the centre.
  - ropiku 10y ago
    Also the intentional lack of parking. Even if I would get a car I wouldn't have where to park it (or it would be very expensive). The US mandates parking which prevents high density benefits and increases building costs.
  - 10y ago
randallsquared 10y ago
There are three people in my household. Between us, we drink 30-40 (depending on the week) 2L bottles of soda a week, as well as a couple of 12-packs of soda cans, maybe an 8-pack of gatorade/powerade, and 15-20 half liter bottles of water. Food is not the largest part of what we bring back from the store. There are a lot of opportunities lost when you can't carry more than, well, you can personally carry. The "white cheddar mac & cheese" brand that everyone in the house likes as a meal base is on sale? With a car, I can easily choose to just buy 40 of them to throw under the counter to last us for the next two months. Without a car, I can't take advantage of sales like that. With a car, I can decide to suddenly throw clothes in a suitcase and drive to Florida or Delaware (I live about halfway between those). Without a car, such things would have to be planned well in advance. With a car, I can drive 3 hours to Atlanta to pick up a monitor arm with my two friends in the car for company. With a car, I can go to the home improvement store and pick up lumber so my friend can build a nice gaming table for D&D days. Is a car a luxury? Sure, from the perspective of 1920. So are 4K screens and guest bedrooms and mini-fridges and king-size beds and neighbors whose walls are not your walls, but that's not a reason to feel as though people should reject any of those things.
- aoloe 10y ago
  What you are describing is 100% the contrary of my daily life and of what I aspire to become in the future. No wonder that I am more than happy with a good bicycle and a yearly ticket for all public transportation in my country. Of course, I don't own a car. I drink tap water, no "white cheddar mac & cheese" but as many fresh vegetables / meet / cheese as possible (ok, and lot of pasta). If I want to go to Paris, Frankfurt, Milan, Vienna, Rome, London or Berlin there is a (more or less direct) train every two hours. Just buy a ticket over the internet, print it, and jump on the train (And while I wonder where Delaware is and why I would want to go there, I can take my laptop with me and keep on working during the whole ride to Paris). I need a monitor arm? Just choose one in the internet shop and it's delivered tomorrow morning at my doorstep. Or I can pick it up later in the afternoon at the delivery place 10 minutes from here. If I want to go and play table tennis with my friends, there are public parks where we can meet... Basketball? Checked. Football (you would probably call it soccer)? Even easier. Want to have a swim together? In the lake or in the river in summer or in a public pool if it's cold. No 4K screen, no mini-fridges, no king size bed, no cold walls... but i agree a real guest bedroom would be nice! Owning a car is for me just unpractical. And for the few times a year I would need one, I can find alternative solutions or book one through car sharing. It gets to the point where I wonder if owning a car or not shapes your life in such different way or different choices in life makes you own a car (or not)...
technofiend 10y ago
Due to the economy I'd love to ride a gas-powered bike and for the environment's sake would gladly take an e-bike instead. But I live in a city with 50%+ humidity and 80+ degree weather most of the year. It's brutal to be out in the sun and stopped in traffic; Texas doesn't allow lane splitting. All that aside the reason I take public transportation instead of risking a bike is my fellow drivers. We've had several hundred wrecks with our 7.5 mile long at-grade light rail. What chance do I stand on a bike when most people down here drive trucks or SUVs and can't avoid a flipping train? It's frustrating.

pm90 10y ago

The only trouble I have with motorcycles is the safety aspect. My parents were involved in an accident on a two wheeler. I myself have been involved in a rather serious accident but luckily the car took almost all the damage and I escaped with minor whiplash. Its also why I would never drive a coupe other than for pleasure. Statistically, the amount of driving involved with living in most American cities makes it rather likely that one will be involved in an accident. Apologies, I don't mean to question your lifestyle. I'm merely expressing one of my biggest concerns with driving. Of course the best solution is to not have to drive so much.

wlesieutre 10y ago

You've highlighted Seattle as if it's an example of a terrible place to rely on a motorcycle, but I'd take the rain over snow, ice, and sub-zero temperatures. I'd be fine with my commute for most of the year. Having to get to work in the winter makes a pretty good case for a car though. And unless there's a bike/motorcycle that will turn into a car for three months of the year, I'm sticking to the one that works year round.

Rumudiez 10y ago
This past winter I actually rode several times in below freezing temperatures. I definitely wasn't comfortable, but I wasn't particularly prepared for it. Single digit and below... yeah, I'll forgive you if you can't take a bus. Short term leases would be on my mind if that were the case for me. Like I said, though, snow on the road is a good stopping point for the average driver – car or motorcycle.

khedoros 10y ago

It's a chicken+egg problem. I've considered riding a bicycle to work (it's only about 6 miles), but there are busy streets without bicycle lanes (or even sidewalks), and drivers in the area are known to be actively aggressive against cyclists. These things drive down the numbers of cyclists, which increases the general feeling that they aren't accepted, and that it's not worth it to cater to them. > if we could just use those forbidden things called school buses and public transportation. If they were available and timely? Sure. We have buses in my area. They come hourly. They aren't practical unless you have a lot of spare time, and each connecting bus compounds the problem. I can get to some nearby cities by train, but it's almost always more convenient, faster, and cheaper to drive there myself. Cars will become a luxury instead of a necessity when those problems are fixed...and those problems will be fixed when cars become unnecessary for a reasonable quality of life.

Brakenshire 10y ago
I suspect a lot of it is pure population density. The US needs to make downtown areas pedestrian and bike friendly, and then allow high density development near the centre. That makes the bike lanes and the bus network self supporting. In London there was a very big push to extend the bus network about 15 years ago, by the left-wing mayor (who had been given newly created powers). He also introduced a congestion charge for other vehicles. Both policies were quickly supported across the political spectrum. In central London few people use cars now, it is just far more of a hassle. The last mayor expanded bike lanes a lot, and now bike journeys are on course to overtake car journeys in central London. The big development definitely helped to establish the network, but it happened on top of high density (in the number of people working in the centre, if not actually living there). And now we are getting much more housing closer to the centre.
- ropiku 10y ago
  Also the intentional lack of parking. Even if I would get a car I wouldn't have where to park it (or it would be very expensive). The US mandates parking which prevents high density benefits and increases building costs.
- 10y ago

randallsquared 10y ago

There are three people in my household. Between us, we drink 30-40 (depending on the week) 2L bottles of soda a week, as well as a couple of 12-packs of soda cans, maybe an 8-pack of gatorade/powerade, and 15-20 half liter bottles of water. Food is not the largest part of what we bring back from the store. There are a lot of opportunities lost when you can't carry more than, well, you can personally carry. The "white cheddar mac & cheese" brand that everyone in the house likes as a meal base is on sale? With a car, I can easily choose to just buy 40 of them to throw under the counter to last us for the next two months. Without a car, I can't take advantage of sales like that. With a car, I can decide to suddenly throw clothes in a suitcase and drive to Florida or Delaware (I live about halfway between those). Without a car, such things would have to be planned well in advance. With a car, I can drive 3 hours to Atlanta to pick up a monitor arm with my two friends in the car for company. With a car, I can go to the home improvement store and pick up lumber so my friend can build a nice gaming table for D&D days. Is a car a luxury? Sure, from the perspective of 1920. So are 4K screens and guest bedrooms and mini-fridges and king-size beds and neighbors whose walls are not your walls, but that's not a reason to feel as though people should reject any of those things.

aoloe 10y ago
What you are describing is 100% the contrary of my daily life and of what I aspire to become in the future. No wonder that I am more than happy with a good bicycle and a yearly ticket for all public transportation in my country. Of course, I don't own a car. I drink tap water, no "white cheddar mac & cheese" but as many fresh vegetables / meet / cheese as possible (ok, and lot of pasta). If I want to go to Paris, Frankfurt, Milan, Vienna, Rome, London or Berlin there is a (more or less direct) train every two hours. Just buy a ticket over the internet, print it, and jump on the train (And while I wonder where Delaware is and why I would want to go there, I can take my laptop with me and keep on working during the whole ride to Paris). I need a monitor arm? Just choose one in the internet shop and it's delivered tomorrow morning at my doorstep. Or I can pick it up later in the afternoon at the delivery place 10 minutes from here. If I want to go and play table tennis with my friends, there are public parks where we can meet... Basketball? Checked. Football (you would probably call it soccer)? Even easier. Want to have a swim together? In the lake or in the river in summer or in a public pool if it's cold. No 4K screen, no mini-fridges, no king size bed, no cold walls... but i agree a real guest bedroom would be nice! Owning a car is for me just unpractical. And for the few times a year I would need one, I can find alternative solutions or book one through car sharing. It gets to the point where I wonder if owning a car or not shapes your life in such different way or different choices in life makes you own a car (or not)...

technofiend 10y ago

Due to the economy I'd love to ride a gas-powered bike and for the environment's sake would gladly take an e-bike instead. But I live in a city with 50%+ humidity and 80+ degree weather most of the year. It's brutal to be out in the sun and stopped in traffic; Texas doesn't allow lane splitting. All that aside the reason I take public transportation instead of risking a bike is my fellow drivers. We've had several hundred wrecks with our 7.5 mile long at-grade light rail. What chance do I stand on a bike when most people down here drive trucks or SUVs and can't avoid a flipping train? It's frustrating.