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The e-bike situation in China is very different from the US. These are people who are moving UP from human-powered bikes, or walking, to their first vehicle --

The e-bike situation in China is very different from the US. These are people who are moving UP from human-powered bikes, or walking, to their first vehicle -- not buying them so that they can leave their car at home and feel the wind in their hair. Here's a photo of a very typical Chinese e-bike: http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00zsrEyYQIYOqo/Chinese-Electric-Scooter-for-Men-and-Women.jpg http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00zsrEyYQIYOqo/Chinese-El... As you can see, it has a second seat in the back for a passenger, and is built much more like a very lightweight motorscooter than a bike. The batteries are typically lead-acid, not lithium, so they are big and heavy, and probably don't give all that much range. I'm curious how people charge and store these vehicles, since most people in Chinese cities live in multi-story dwellings -- I guess they must lug the batteries upstairs with them at night? The real reason these work in China is that in most of the cities I have been in, they make up 30 to 40 percent of the traffic on the streets at any given time, and so they become a force to be reckoned with in terms of traffic flow. That makes a HUGE difference in terms of rider safety, especially when compared with the US where drivers are often confused or surprised when they encounter a single cyclist mixing it up with eight lanes of car traffic moving along at 45 mph. I think it's really admirable that China has been able to get a sizeable fraction of the population riding these silent, lightweight e-bikes, instead of polluting, noisy motorscooters or big, inefficient cars. However, I really question whether this model would ever fly in the USA.

pm90 10y ago
I don't think it would work in the US. Such models might replace the gasoline powered vespas that a small minority of people use. But a car is central to the lifestyle of most Americans: you go to work, get groceries etc. That said, the more bicycle looking ebikes... I am very tempted to get one. They can be a fun way to explore the neighborhood. But I would still need a car for commuting to work.
- Rumudiez 10y ago
  > But I would still need a car for commuting to work. And that sums up why the typical US mentality will continue to impede transportation progress. I can easily carry over a week's worth of groceries to cook three meals per day for two people in one trip on my motorcycle. I ride to work every day of the year in Seattle. It's kind of like, you know, living in pretty much any other country in the world where cars are correctly seen for the luxuries they are. Having a scooter without saddlebags would be harder in that I'd probably need to get groceries twice a week, but the only things actually stopping such madness are snow and large families. I would doubt the need for a car to get work, though, if we could just use those forbidden things called school buses and public transportation.
  - pm90 10y ago
    The only trouble I have with motorcycles is the safety aspect. My parents were involved in an accident on a two wheeler. I myself have been involved in a rather serious accident but luckily the car took almost all the damage and I escaped with minor whiplash. Its also why I would never drive a coupe other than for pleasure. Statistically, the amount of driving involved with living in most American cities makes it rather likely that one will be involved in an accident. Apologies, I don't mean to question your lifestyle. I'm merely expressing one of my biggest concerns with driving. Of course the best solution is to not have to drive so much.
  - wlesieutre 10y ago
    You've highlighted Seattle as if it's an example of a terrible place to rely on a motorcycle, but I'd take the rain over snow, ice, and sub-zero temperatures. I'd be fine with my commute for most of the year. Having to get to work in the winter makes a pretty good case for a car though. And unless there's a bike/motorcycle that will turn into a car for three months of the year, I'm sticking to the one that works year round.
    - Rumudiez 10y ago
      This past winter I actually rode several times in below freezing temperatures. I definitely wasn't comfortable, but I wasn't particularly prepared for it. Single digit and below... yeah, I'll forgive you if you can't take a bus. Short term leases would be on my mind if that were the case for me. Like I said, though, snow on the road is a good stopping point for the average driver – car or motorcycle.
  - khedoros 10y ago
    It's a chicken+egg problem. I've considered riding a bicycle to work (it's only about 6 miles), but there are busy streets without bicycle lanes (or even sidewalks), and drivers in the area are known to be actively aggressive against cyclists. These things drive down the numbers of cyclists, which increases the general feeling that they aren't accepted, and that it's not worth it to cater to them. > if we could just use those forbidden things called school buses and public transportation. If they were available and timely? Sure. We have buses in my area. They come hourly. They aren't practical unless you have a lot of spare time, and each connecting bus compounds the problem. I can get to some nearby cities by train, but it's almost always more convenient, faster, and cheaper to drive there myself. Cars will become a luxury instead of a necessity when those problems are fixed...and those problems will be fixed when cars become unnecessary for a reasonable quality of life.
Cerium 10y ago
How people charge them depends on where they live and where they work. People who live in the modern pencil thin 30 story buildings you see on the news simply ride them into the elevator. Since they are electric and Chinese buildings usually have tile hallways (or bare concrete) this causes no problems. The shorter 6 story buildings do not have elevators, so people who live in these simply hang a cord out their window. Store owners will charge at work.
- dmoy 10y ago
  Yup, and now you see public service announcement thingies encouraging people to not hang wires out the window because it's a hazard.
- jjcc 10y ago
  I happened to take a vocation in China now. I have a bike with a battery of 2.4 kg weight.So bring it back home to charge everyday is not a problem. Not every bike have small battery though.
techthroway443 10y ago
That looks like a scooter
digi_owl 10y ago
On that note, i ran into a kickstarter on one that was styled more like a motorcycle than a typical bicycle. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/782844499/the-super-73 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/782844499/the-super-73
- DigitalJack 10y ago
  It's pretty dangerous riding a motorcycle. And I just mean the danger from other motorists. Imagine if your motorcycle was silent. I know people raised the same concerns about electric cars back in the day, but people are far more likely to not "see" a motorcycle. Maybe mitigate with a strobe light, but I find those very distracting when I drive by a cyclist.
  - aianus 10y ago
    I commuted daily on a motorcycle in Saigon and it's not as dangerous as it is here in North America (well, sometimes it is, but mostly because of idiots riding drunk with no helmet while texting). Everyone drives slower (~40km/h at most) and cars actively look out for motorcycles and make slow, smooth controlled changes in direction that everyone can anticipate.
    - damian2000 10y ago
      Yeah I agree with that - traffic in Saigon looks initially completely disorganised in areas such as large junctions, but it really works well and is even safe for pedestrians. Its absolutely different to traffic in many other countries where the car is 95% of the traffic and the lowest speed anywhere is 60km/h.
  - DigitalJack 10y ago
    Really like to hear the rationale for downvotes, just because it's surprising to me.
    - _s 10y ago
      I didn't down vote but from a different perspective: - Not being able to hear / audible warning is a terrible argument for many reasons - The danger is understood, but that's because of a lack of training for all road users; no amount of visual warnings will mitigate the lack of education / training I think the downvotes stem from the lack of critical thought portrayed by the comment? I can't really say - to me it doesn't add anything meaningful to topic at hand and detracts from the intent of the article itself without giving tangible reasons.
rakoo 10y ago
Another huge reason is that China outright banned the use of gasoline powered motorcycles in many big cities; since the majority of people just can't afford a car, the only replacement they could have is electric bikes. Maybe one day we'll also see gasoline powered personal vehicles be banned in the West ? I kind of doubt it, seeing how important the car is in our society, even though there is some progress towards it (see for instance the car-free days in Paris (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36243119 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36243119), and I'm sure in other places as well) As always, more information on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_China#Electric_bike_and_motorcycle_development_in_the_90s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_C...)
- walrus01 10y ago
  > Another huge reason is that China outright banned the use of gasoline powered motorcycles in many big cities; since the majority of people just can't afford a car, the only replacement they could have is electric bikes. Imagine how polluted the air in major Chinese cities would be if they didn't do this. For a counter example visit Karachi or Lahore and observe the air, both huge population centres that are full of small 2-stroke engined motorcycles and motor-rickshaws emitting blue grey exhaust everywhere.
- duaneb 10y ago
  This kind of ban only makes sense with dense electrical and infrastructure penetration. Good luck convincing people in the country to give up four wheel drive and switch to a vehicle where fuel cannot be stashed.
  - forrestthewoods 10y ago
    ... because people in the country don't have electricity?
    - SerLava 10y ago
      ...They have to drive farther.
seanmcdirmid 10y ago
> I'm curious how people charge and store these vehicles, since most people in Chinese cities live in multi-story dwellings -- I guess they must lug the batteries upstairs with them at night? Yep, you carry the battery up to your apartment each night, or just take your bike up. I really wonder how people with those Tesla Model S's I'm seeing all around manage, since parking is so difficult and its usually on the street.
- beambot 10y ago
  Are you in SFBA? If so, many tech companies have free (or subsidized) charging stations on their corporate campuses -- so people are recharging at work rather than at home.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    I work for Microsoft in Beijing, we are pushing for charging pylons in our garage now; we just did a renovation and completely forgot that! They should really figure out home charging also, however. The problem is that most people don't buy parking spots in their apartment garages, and even if they did the garages don't have pylons and there isn't much will to put them in. Having to drive to work to charge is a bit of an issue on the weekend! But I guess the people that own Model S's are rich since they are around $120K here, maybe they all have villas in Shunyi or other places in the suburbs.
contingencies 10y ago
That's not a particularly common design. The common designs are heavier looking, eg: http://119.10.46.20:9999/images/T1uxEvBXDT1RXrhCrK.jpg http://119.10.46.20:9999/images/T1uxEvBXDT1RXrhCrK.jpg ... the lighter designs have less batteries and haul a lot less. Note the metal bar around the weak plastic housing, this protects it against falls and accidents. Notice also the fold-out passenger foot-rests. The seat opens to reveal covered storage space: many people use this to keep rain-covers of various types. Inside will be typically five to seven batteries, which last about a year with reasonably heavy daily use. Replacement is about USD$90-150. I'm curious how people charge and store these vehicles Most apartment/office blocks or shopping/entertainment areas have someone who 'minds' the vehicles against theft. They also provide power plugs for charging your batteries. At least around here, the fee for such a service is about 1-2元 per day (USD$0.15-0.30). Power is cheap in China... we have vast numbers of hydro-electric dams here in the south-west, and probably state subsidy.
- driverdan 10y ago
  That doesn't seem to have pedals. It looks like an electric scooter, not an electric bike.
  - contingencies 10y ago
    Yes, almost no electric bikes in China have pedals, and they could perhaps be better described as scooters. However, they are universally called e-bikes.
necessity 10y ago
Here in Brazil you see a lot of people moving from cars/bus to bicycles. I think a number of factors contributed to that: First and foremost, following the commodities boom there was also a boom in car sales in Brazil, but not a boom in car lanes. Government is spectacularly inefficient around here, specially when it comes to building and maintaining roads. Traffic has worsen considerably in the last decade, and all attempts from most cities of creating new passageways and tunnels ended up in streets closed for construction for several years, the constructions being stagnated by the inherit inefficiency of our government and later on by the lack of money once the crisis hit. Here in Porto Alegre there are various of those constructions with no one working on them, just making traffic worse. The BRT project is half dead and buses need to get out of the bus lane where it's under reform and go in the middle of the cars then back to the bus lanes. There are at least four main access roads near the bus station closed for reform. Not to mention the new bridge of which the construction has been stopped, or the tunnels that for years do not progress. Anyway, that rant aside, the whole "green" vibe around bikes is probably a huge factor too. So you have this transportation which is clean, healthy, faster than a car in some parts of town, and relatively cheap. Then, cities started to "build" bike lanes (actually just paint part of the car lane adjacent to the sidewalk and call it a bike lane, which made traffic even worse). I think that turned what was an increase in the number of cyclists into a boom in the last years.
- WalterBright 10y ago
  > Government is spectacularly inefficient around here, specially when it comes to building and maintaining roads. It is around here, too, it's just that people go ahead and pay it anyway. For example, the Alderwood intersection for I5 and I405 took about 30 years to complete. They'd build one set of temporary ramps, then tear them down and build another, etc., etc., etc. You had to pay attention to the signage because it changed constantly, all over the place.
- meric 10y ago
  I think that shows the expensive cost of automobile infrastructure. The city couldn't get the tunnels and roads built, people were stuck in the city and they had no solution. In the end they resorted to painting car lanes as bike lanes, and that was that.
mads 10y ago
>I'm curious how people charge and store these vehicles, since most people in Chinese cities live in multi-story dwellings -- I guess they must lug the batteries upstairs with them at night? I charge mine downstairs together with a lot of other electric bikes. It costs me 30 RMB per month to charge. My neighbourhood is a typical Chinese one - i.e. not one of those fancy foreigner compounds. My bike has a range of around 40-50 km depending on how many people are on the bike and how I drive it. It doesn't look like the one in the picture you sent. More like a traditional motorised scooter - just with a battery. I paid 3000 RMB for it (new). It even comes with built in Bluetooth speakers, so I can annoy my fellow drivers on the street and people taking a stroll in the park with loud death metal music.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
rahimnathwani 10y ago
Good points about critical mass and safety. The general traffic situation in Beijing is more chaotic than in London, but I would feel less safe on a scooter in London. Re: charging: - some people charge them at work, by using long extension cables - lithium batteries are getting more popular, and this cuts the weight by more than 50% - yes, when I used to ride an electric scooter (a vespa-style one, not the type in your pic) I would lug my battery up and down 5 flights of stairs, not just for charging, but also because the lithium battery is worth more than bike

pm90 10y ago

I don't think it would work in the US. Such models might replace the gasoline powered vespas that a small minority of people use. But a car is central to the lifestyle of most Americans: you go to work, get groceries etc. That said, the more bicycle looking ebikes... I am very tempted to get one. They can be a fun way to explore the neighborhood. But I would still need a car for commuting to work.

Rumudiez 10y ago
> But I would still need a car for commuting to work. And that sums up why the typical US mentality will continue to impede transportation progress. I can easily carry over a week's worth of groceries to cook three meals per day for two people in one trip on my motorcycle. I ride to work every day of the year in Seattle. It's kind of like, you know, living in pretty much any other country in the world where cars are correctly seen for the luxuries they are. Having a scooter without saddlebags would be harder in that I'd probably need to get groceries twice a week, but the only things actually stopping such madness are snow and large families. I would doubt the need for a car to get work, though, if we could just use those forbidden things called school buses and public transportation.
- pm90 10y ago
  The only trouble I have with motorcycles is the safety aspect. My parents were involved in an accident on a two wheeler. I myself have been involved in a rather serious accident but luckily the car took almost all the damage and I escaped with minor whiplash. Its also why I would never drive a coupe other than for pleasure. Statistically, the amount of driving involved with living in most American cities makes it rather likely that one will be involved in an accident. Apologies, I don't mean to question your lifestyle. I'm merely expressing one of my biggest concerns with driving. Of course the best solution is to not have to drive so much.
- wlesieutre 10y ago
  You've highlighted Seattle as if it's an example of a terrible place to rely on a motorcycle, but I'd take the rain over snow, ice, and sub-zero temperatures. I'd be fine with my commute for most of the year. Having to get to work in the winter makes a pretty good case for a car though. And unless there's a bike/motorcycle that will turn into a car for three months of the year, I'm sticking to the one that works year round.
  - Rumudiez 10y ago
    This past winter I actually rode several times in below freezing temperatures. I definitely wasn't comfortable, but I wasn't particularly prepared for it. Single digit and below... yeah, I'll forgive you if you can't take a bus. Short term leases would be on my mind if that were the case for me. Like I said, though, snow on the road is a good stopping point for the average driver – car or motorcycle.
- khedoros 10y ago
  It's a chicken+egg problem. I've considered riding a bicycle to work (it's only about 6 miles), but there are busy streets without bicycle lanes (or even sidewalks), and drivers in the area are known to be actively aggressive against cyclists. These things drive down the numbers of cyclists, which increases the general feeling that they aren't accepted, and that it's not worth it to cater to them. > if we could just use those forbidden things called school buses and public transportation. If they were available and timely? Sure. We have buses in my area. They come hourly. They aren't practical unless you have a lot of spare time, and each connecting bus compounds the problem. I can get to some nearby cities by train, but it's almost always more convenient, faster, and cheaper to drive there myself. Cars will become a luxury instead of a necessity when those problems are fixed...and those problems will be fixed when cars become unnecessary for a reasonable quality of life.

Cerium 10y ago

How people charge them depends on where they live and where they work. People who live in the modern pencil thin 30 story buildings you see on the news simply ride them into the elevator. Since they are electric and Chinese buildings usually have tile hallways (or bare concrete) this causes no problems. The shorter 6 story buildings do not have elevators, so people who live in these simply hang a cord out their window. Store owners will charge at work.

dmoy 10y ago
Yup, and now you see public service announcement thingies encouraging people to not hang wires out the window because it's a hazard.
jjcc 10y ago
I happened to take a vocation in China now. I have a bike with a battery of 2.4 kg weight.So bring it back home to charge everyday is not a problem. Not every bike have small battery though.

techthroway443 10y ago

That looks like a scooter

digi_owl 10y ago

On that note, i ran into a kickstarter on one that was styled more like a motorcycle than a typical bicycle. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/782844499/the-super-73 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/782844499/the-super-73

DigitalJack 10y ago
It's pretty dangerous riding a motorcycle. And I just mean the danger from other motorists. Imagine if your motorcycle was silent. I know people raised the same concerns about electric cars back in the day, but people are far more likely to not "see" a motorcycle. Maybe mitigate with a strobe light, but I find those very distracting when I drive by a cyclist.
- aianus 10y ago
  I commuted daily on a motorcycle in Saigon and it's not as dangerous as it is here in North America (well, sometimes it is, but mostly because of idiots riding drunk with no helmet while texting). Everyone drives slower (~40km/h at most) and cars actively look out for motorcycles and make slow, smooth controlled changes in direction that everyone can anticipate.
  - damian2000 10y ago
    Yeah I agree with that - traffic in Saigon looks initially completely disorganised in areas such as large junctions, but it really works well and is even safe for pedestrians. Its absolutely different to traffic in many other countries where the car is 95% of the traffic and the lowest speed anywhere is 60km/h.
- DigitalJack 10y ago
  Really like to hear the rationale for downvotes, just because it's surprising to me.
  - _s 10y ago
    I didn't down vote but from a different perspective: - Not being able to hear / audible warning is a terrible argument for many reasons - The danger is understood, but that's because of a lack of training for all road users; no amount of visual warnings will mitigate the lack of education / training I think the downvotes stem from the lack of critical thought portrayed by the comment? I can't really say - to me it doesn't add anything meaningful to topic at hand and detracts from the intent of the article itself without giving tangible reasons.

rakoo 10y ago

Another huge reason is that China outright banned the use of gasoline powered motorcycles in many big cities; since the majority of people just can't afford a car, the only replacement they could have is electric bikes. Maybe one day we'll also see gasoline powered personal vehicles be banned in the West ? I kind of doubt it, seeing how important the car is in our society, even though there is some progress towards it (see for instance the car-free days in Paris (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36243119 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36243119), and I'm sure in other places as well) As always, more information on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_China#Electric_bike_and_motorcycle_development_in_the_90s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_industry_in_C...)

walrus01 10y ago
> Another huge reason is that China outright banned the use of gasoline powered motorcycles in many big cities; since the majority of people just can't afford a car, the only replacement they could have is electric bikes. Imagine how polluted the air in major Chinese cities would be if they didn't do this. For a counter example visit Karachi or Lahore and observe the air, both huge population centres that are full of small 2-stroke engined motorcycles and motor-rickshaws emitting blue grey exhaust everywhere.
duaneb 10y ago
This kind of ban only makes sense with dense electrical and infrastructure penetration. Good luck convincing people in the country to give up four wheel drive and switch to a vehicle where fuel cannot be stashed.
- forrestthewoods 10y ago
  ... because people in the country don't have electricity?
  - SerLava 10y ago
    ...They have to drive farther.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago

> I'm curious how people charge and store these vehicles, since most people in Chinese cities live in multi-story dwellings -- I guess they must lug the batteries upstairs with them at night? Yep, you carry the battery up to your apartment each night, or just take your bike up. I really wonder how people with those Tesla Model S's I'm seeing all around manage, since parking is so difficult and its usually on the street.

beambot 10y ago
Are you in SFBA? If so, many tech companies have free (or subsidized) charging stations on their corporate campuses -- so people are recharging at work rather than at home.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  I work for Microsoft in Beijing, we are pushing for charging pylons in our garage now; we just did a renovation and completely forgot that! They should really figure out home charging also, however. The problem is that most people don't buy parking spots in their apartment garages, and even if they did the garages don't have pylons and there isn't much will to put them in. Having to drive to work to charge is a bit of an issue on the weekend! But I guess the people that own Model S's are rich since they are around $120K here, maybe they all have villas in Shunyi or other places in the suburbs.

contingencies 10y ago

That's not a particularly common design. The common designs are heavier looking, eg: http://119.10.46.20:9999/images/T1uxEvBXDT1RXrhCrK.jpg http://119.10.46.20:9999/images/T1uxEvBXDT1RXrhCrK.jpg ... the lighter designs have less batteries and haul a lot less. Note the metal bar around the weak plastic housing, this protects it against falls and accidents. Notice also the fold-out passenger foot-rests. The seat opens to reveal covered storage space: many people use this to keep rain-covers of various types. Inside will be typically five to seven batteries, which last about a year with reasonably heavy daily use. Replacement is about USD$90-150. I'm curious how people charge and store these vehicles Most apartment/office blocks or shopping/entertainment areas have someone who 'minds' the vehicles against theft. They also provide power plugs for charging your batteries. At least around here, the fee for such a service is about 1-2元 per day (USD$0.15-0.30). Power is cheap in China... we have vast numbers of hydro-electric dams here in the south-west, and probably state subsidy.

driverdan 10y ago
That doesn't seem to have pedals. It looks like an electric scooter, not an electric bike.
- contingencies 10y ago
  Yes, almost no electric bikes in China have pedals, and they could perhaps be better described as scooters. However, they are universally called e-bikes.

necessity 10y ago

Here in Brazil you see a lot of people moving from cars/bus to bicycles. I think a number of factors contributed to that: First and foremost, following the commodities boom there was also a boom in car sales in Brazil, but not a boom in car lanes. Government is spectacularly inefficient around here, specially when it comes to building and maintaining roads. Traffic has worsen considerably in the last decade, and all attempts from most cities of creating new passageways and tunnels ended up in streets closed for construction for several years, the constructions being stagnated by the inherit inefficiency of our government and later on by the lack of money once the crisis hit. Here in Porto Alegre there are various of those constructions with no one working on them, just making traffic worse. The BRT project is half dead and buses need to get out of the bus lane where it's under reform and go in the middle of the cars then back to the bus lanes. There are at least four main access roads near the bus station closed for reform. Not to mention the new bridge of which the construction has been stopped, or the tunnels that for years do not progress. Anyway, that rant aside, the whole "green" vibe around bikes is probably a huge factor too. So you have this transportation which is clean, healthy, faster than a car in some parts of town, and relatively cheap. Then, cities started to "build" bike lanes (actually just paint part of the car lane adjacent to the sidewalk and call it a bike lane, which made traffic even worse). I think that turned what was an increase in the number of cyclists into a boom in the last years.

WalterBright 10y ago
> Government is spectacularly inefficient around here, specially when it comes to building and maintaining roads. It is around here, too, it's just that people go ahead and pay it anyway. For example, the Alderwood intersection for I5 and I405 took about 30 years to complete. They'd build one set of temporary ramps, then tear them down and build another, etc., etc., etc. You had to pay attention to the signage because it changed constantly, all over the place.
meric 10y ago
I think that shows the expensive cost of automobile infrastructure. The city couldn't get the tunnels and roads built, people were stuck in the city and they had no solution. In the end they resorted to painting car lanes as bike lanes, and that was that.

mads 10y ago

>I'm curious how people charge and store these vehicles, since most people in Chinese cities live in multi-story dwellings -- I guess they must lug the batteries upstairs with them at night? I charge mine downstairs together with a lot of other electric bikes. It costs me 30 RMB per month to charge. My neighbourhood is a typical Chinese one - i.e. not one of those fancy foreigner compounds. My bike has a range of around 40-50 km depending on how many people are on the bike and how I drive it. It doesn't look like the one in the picture you sent. More like a traditional motorised scooter - just with a battery. I paid 3000 RMB for it (new). It even comes with built in Bluetooth speakers, so I can annoy my fellow drivers on the street and people taking a stroll in the park with loud death metal music.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

rahimnathwani 10y ago

Good points about critical mass and safety. The general traffic situation in Beijing is more chaotic than in London, but I would feel less safe on a scooter in London. Re: charging: - some people charge them at work, by using long extension cables - lithium batteries are getting more popular, and this cuts the weight by more than 50% - yes, when I used to ride an electric scooter (a vespa-style one, not the type in your pic) I would lug my battery up and down 5 flights of stairs, not just for charging, but also because the lithium battery is worth more than bike