8 ms·

This really isn't a good riddle. First, Unconditional Cash Transfers (UCT) work better than most people expect (http://www.economist.com/news/international/215

This really isn't a good riddle. First, Unconditional Cash Transfers (UCT) work better than most people expect (http://www.economist.com/news/international/21588385-giving-money-directly-poor-people-works-surprisingly-well-it-cannot-deal http://www.economist.com/news/international/21588385-giving-...). As noted in the article, UCTs work surprisingly well in scenarios where lack of capital is the primary problem. A UBI (at least as usually is discussed in the US) is a de-scaling UCT. Second, most proponents of a UBI see it as more efficient because of the savings on administrative overhead. So dollar for dollar the assumption is that your social safety net with UBI is larger than current welfare. Which finally brings us to the observation that current welfare is not an all-inclusive safety net, so opposing UBI because it isn't either seems a bit of a distraction. A more interesting question, raised by the Economist article linked above, is where do UCTs break down? This is a question whether or not UBI should be _entirely_ UCT or if there should also be some Conditional Cash Transfers (CCT). This would be like providing incentives for going to college. CCTs are better at correcting deeper issues that contribute to the cycle of poverty. Ultimately I feel like a UBI is a good first step, but ultimately a combination of UCTs and CCTs are needed to really combat poverty.

DawkinsGawd 10y ago
You completely side stepped the question. I find it absolutely amazing how naive BI supporters are. I grew up poor in a ghetto in New York. Studied, went to university, became an engineer and am no longer in that socioeconomic bracket. However it is very apparent that the people in my current bracket (the one's that support BI), have no idea about the issues of the poor. Poor people are mostly poor because of the decisions they make. At least that is my experience. Drug addiction, gambling, alcoholism, poor budgeting, mental illness, etc, etc, etc. Thinking back I do not know anyone in my neighborhood who was genuinely a hard working person with no vices. Hard working people with not vices don't live in the slums and generally can support their basic needs. Yes there are those occasions were an acute emergency happens and support is need but that is an atypical story. Giving $1200 check to someone without food and shelter most definitely isn't going to provide them food and shelter. It will more likely go to a stamp bag, scratch off, 40 ounce, etc. Yes, we need to help these people. Mental health, substance abuse, etc do not make people "bad". But giving someone a months worth of rent/food/utilities/clothing in cash is going to be disastrous
- jackpirate 10y ago
  > ... mental illness ... This is hardly a "decision somebody made".
  - function_seven 10y ago
    No, it's the reason the bad decisions get made. Same as alcoholism, drug addiction, and other "vices". Some may stem from initial poor decisions in the past, but they're all good contexts for why continued, daily bad decisions are made that serve to keep the person in poverty.
    - diydsp 10y ago
      We ought to support NAMI (http://www.nami.org/ http://www.nami.org/). They're a large, slowly growing non-profit organization of doctors, families and researchers that is trying to get the US to shift the way it deals with mental illness from the bottom up: identification, treatment, support, public perception, everything. Protip: This would also help with our mass shooting problem, too.
  - backlava 10y ago
    None of the things in that list were themselves decisions. They were causes of poor decisions. Do you dispute that mental illness can be a cause of poor decision making?
  - douglance 10y ago
    It can be.
  - ufmace 10y ago
    True or not, it doesn't matter for the purpose. If somebody is mentally ill, it doesn't matter what the cause is or who we can blame it on, it's still the case that cutting them 4 figure checks monthly is not going to magically get them out of their situation.
  - DominikR 10y ago
    Some widely used illegal drugs are known to cause mental illnesses for some. MDMA, magic mushrooms and LSD just to name a few. I've always been curious about hallucinogen effects but I chose to never try it because of the risks.

DawkinsGawd 10y ago

You completely side stepped the question. I find it absolutely amazing how naive BI supporters are. I grew up poor in a ghetto in New York. Studied, went to university, became an engineer and am no longer in that socioeconomic bracket. However it is very apparent that the people in my current bracket (the one's that support BI), have no idea about the issues of the poor. Poor people are mostly poor because of the decisions they make. At least that is my experience. Drug addiction, gambling, alcoholism, poor budgeting, mental illness, etc, etc, etc. Thinking back I do not know anyone in my neighborhood who was genuinely a hard working person with no vices. Hard working people with not vices don't live in the slums and generally can support their basic needs. Yes there are those occasions were an acute emergency happens and support is need but that is an atypical story. Giving $1200 check to someone without food and shelter most definitely isn't going to provide them food and shelter. It will more likely go to a stamp bag, scratch off, 40 ounce, etc. Yes, we need to help these people. Mental health, substance abuse, etc do not make people "bad". But giving someone a months worth of rent/food/utilities/clothing in cash is going to be disastrous

jackpirate 10y ago
> ... mental illness ... This is hardly a "decision somebody made".
- function_seven 10y ago
  No, it's the reason the bad decisions get made. Same as alcoholism, drug addiction, and other "vices". Some may stem from initial poor decisions in the past, but they're all good contexts for why continued, daily bad decisions are made that serve to keep the person in poverty.
  - diydsp 10y ago
    We ought to support NAMI (http://www.nami.org/ http://www.nami.org/). They're a large, slowly growing non-profit organization of doctors, families and researchers that is trying to get the US to shift the way it deals with mental illness from the bottom up: identification, treatment, support, public perception, everything. Protip: This would also help with our mass shooting problem, too.
- backlava 10y ago
  None of the things in that list were themselves decisions. They were causes of poor decisions. Do you dispute that mental illness can be a cause of poor decision making?
- douglance 10y ago
  It can be.
- ufmace 10y ago
  True or not, it doesn't matter for the purpose. If somebody is mentally ill, it doesn't matter what the cause is or who we can blame it on, it's still the case that cutting them 4 figure checks monthly is not going to magically get them out of their situation.
- DominikR 10y ago
  Some widely used illegal drugs are known to cause mental illnesses for some. MDMA, magic mushrooms and LSD just to name a few. I've always been curious about hallucinogen effects but I chose to never try it because of the risks.