5 ms·

Exactly, we should be moving in the opposite direction: make as much software as possible user-space and sandboxed. I assume a party as large as Dropbox can req

Exactly, we should be moving in the opposite direction: make as much software as possible user-space and sandboxed. I assume a party as large as Dropbox can request Apple to extend the APIs where necessary?

oddevan 10y ago
Especially since Apple already has! There are new extension APIs in El Capitan specifically designed for apps like Box and Dropbox to extend the Finder. And they also released APIs designed to eliminate the need for KEXTs for virtualization products (see: Veertu and Docker for Mac beta), so I would expect them to also have/make APIs for Dropbox's use case as well. I was excited for this. Was.
- dontblink 10y ago
  Believe it or not, their APIs have very real deficiencies. To the point where they are subpar to custom solutions. E.g. is how extensions only allow for one application to be active at a time (i.e. you cannot run Google Drive and Dropbox simultaneously and have file overlay icons).
coldtea 10y ago
>I assume a party as large as Dropbox can request Apple to extend the APIs where necessary? As large? Dropbox is like a fly to Apple. Not to mention competitors. And they haven't budged for much larger parties. So, unless it's something that Apple intends to do anyway, Dropbox's request will don't have much success.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  > So, unless it's something that Apple intends to do anyway, Dropbox's request will don't have much success. You'd think Apple would be happy to add extensions they themselves could use in the future to replace Dropbox with their own iCloud extension.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    On the contrary. Why would they make them open in that case? They could just add them internally and use them for an "upgraded Finder/iCloud" and not expose them for Dropbox to use. Implementing them for a competitor so that they "can use them themselves in the future" doesn't make sense as a strategy -- except if they are too benevolent.
  - izacus 10y ago
    Why when they can just keep it a private API only usable by iCloud? OS X is full of functionality unavailable to 3rd party apps (I'm looking at you Power Nap! -_-) and expecting decent behaviour from them is optimistic.
  - CJefferson 10y ago
    Apple already uses private APIs for iCloud, I'm sure they would love to add some more, to make Dropbox an inferior experience.
  - fenomas 10y ago
    > You'd think Apple would be happy to add extensions they themselves could use in the future to replace Dropbox with their own iCloud extension. Not that I follow such things closely, but I can't recall ever having heard about Apple being happy to do something for someone who wasn't Apple. Do such things happen?
- danieldk 10y ago
  Just a data point: Fastmail got them to implement/support push for Fastmail on iOS (no, it's not just IMAP IDLE).
  - mantasm 10y ago
    Interestingly enough, you don't need Apple's support to do that: https://github.com/st3fan/dovecot-xaps-daemon https://github.com/st3fan/dovecot-xaps-daemon. Apple didn't have to build an API for them, they simply provided documentation for how to use the existing API.
    - danieldk 10y ago
      Ah, that's nice! Though their blog post at the time seemed to indicate that Apple helped them a bit: https://blog.fastmail.com/2015/07/17/push-email-now-available-in-ios-mail/ https://blog.fastmail.com/2015/07/17/push-email-now-availabl...
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Sure, and occasionally the add stuff and consult with Mac software houses and indie devs (or musicians and editors for their Pro stuff) on what to add etc. But that's not the same as building a bunch of APIs for a competitor.
    - manmal 10y ago
      Like the whole Swift open-source ecosystem.
- untog 10y ago
  I'd suspect Dropbox is worse than a fly - it's a direct competitor to iCloud. So, double no.
1123581321 10y ago
When Dropbox rejected Apple's acquisition offer, Jobs was pretty angry at them, so it is unlikely that Apple is willing to help them now.
- r00fus 10y ago
  Wasn't that like over 5 years ago under a different CEO?
  - 1123581321 10y ago
    Yes. iCloud, a direct Dropbox competitor, is still part of Apple's strategy, and the current CEO is executing the direction set by the last CEO.
api 10y ago
If Apple shipped FUSE this would be a lot easier.
- 4ad 10y ago
  If FUSE semantics would be the same between systems, this would be a lot easier. But I'm not sure how that is possible, FUSE it too leaky, it exposes too much of the semantics of the kernel VFS layer, which is different between kernels.

oddevan 10y ago

Especially since Apple already has! There are new extension APIs in El Capitan specifically designed for apps like Box and Dropbox to extend the Finder. And they also released APIs designed to eliminate the need for KEXTs for virtualization products (see: Veertu and Docker for Mac beta), so I would expect them to also have/make APIs for Dropbox's use case as well. I was excited for this. Was.

dontblink 10y ago
Believe it or not, their APIs have very real deficiencies. To the point where they are subpar to custom solutions. E.g. is how extensions only allow for one application to be active at a time (i.e. you cannot run Google Drive and Dropbox simultaneously and have file overlay icons).

coldtea 10y ago

>I assume a party as large as Dropbox can request Apple to extend the APIs where necessary? As large? Dropbox is like a fly to Apple. Not to mention competitors. And they haven't budged for much larger parties. So, unless it's something that Apple intends to do anyway, Dropbox's request will don't have much success.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
> So, unless it's something that Apple intends to do anyway, Dropbox's request will don't have much success. You'd think Apple would be happy to add extensions they themselves could use in the future to replace Dropbox with their own iCloud extension.
- coldtea 10y ago
  On the contrary. Why would they make them open in that case? They could just add them internally and use them for an "upgraded Finder/iCloud" and not expose them for Dropbox to use. Implementing them for a competitor so that they "can use them themselves in the future" doesn't make sense as a strategy -- except if they are too benevolent.
- izacus 10y ago
  Why when they can just keep it a private API only usable by iCloud? OS X is full of functionality unavailable to 3rd party apps (I'm looking at you Power Nap! -_-) and expecting decent behaviour from them is optimistic.
- CJefferson 10y ago
  Apple already uses private APIs for iCloud, I'm sure they would love to add some more, to make Dropbox an inferior experience.
- fenomas 10y ago
  > You'd think Apple would be happy to add extensions they themselves could use in the future to replace Dropbox with their own iCloud extension. Not that I follow such things closely, but I can't recall ever having heard about Apple being happy to do something for someone who wasn't Apple. Do such things happen?
danieldk 10y ago
Just a data point: Fastmail got them to implement/support push for Fastmail on iOS (no, it's not just IMAP IDLE).
- mantasm 10y ago
  Interestingly enough, you don't need Apple's support to do that: https://github.com/st3fan/dovecot-xaps-daemon https://github.com/st3fan/dovecot-xaps-daemon. Apple didn't have to build an API for them, they simply provided documentation for how to use the existing API.
  - danieldk 10y ago
    Ah, that's nice! Though their blog post at the time seemed to indicate that Apple helped them a bit: https://blog.fastmail.com/2015/07/17/push-email-now-available-in-ios-mail/ https://blog.fastmail.com/2015/07/17/push-email-now-availabl...
- coldtea 10y ago
  Sure, and occasionally the add stuff and consult with Mac software houses and indie devs (or musicians and editors for their Pro stuff) on what to add etc. But that's not the same as building a bunch of APIs for a competitor.
  - manmal 10y ago
    Like the whole Swift open-source ecosystem.
untog 10y ago
I'd suspect Dropbox is worse than a fly - it's a direct competitor to iCloud. So, double no.

1123581321 10y ago

When Dropbox rejected Apple's acquisition offer, Jobs was pretty angry at them, so it is unlikely that Apple is willing to help them now.

r00fus 10y ago
Wasn't that like over 5 years ago under a different CEO?
- 1123581321 10y ago
  Yes. iCloud, a direct Dropbox competitor, is still part of Apple's strategy, and the current CEO is executing the direction set by the last CEO.

api 10y ago

If Apple shipped FUSE this would be a lot easier.

4ad 10y ago
If FUSE semantics would be the same between systems, this would be a lot easier. But I'm not sure how that is possible, FUSE it too leaky, it exposes too much of the semantics of the kernel VFS layer, which is different between kernels.