6 ms·

Atlanta, Seattle, Chicago Desperate for Software Engineers, Says Job Search Firm

35 points by teklaperry 10y ago

dabockster 10y ago
I'm graduating from a Seattle area college on Saturday. This is exciting news to hear.
BuckRogers 10y ago
Not surprised about Chicago and Atlanta but Seattle seems odd to be on that list. It's a great town that I'd love to be stuck in. I'm from Chicago and currently in Austin. My wife and I would be happy to move back, if anyone has 110K for me. Fork that over with no on-call rotation and I'll join your devops team.
- forrestthewoods 10y ago
  Why is Seattle odd? Tech is booming here! Largely fueled by Amazon at the moment. But all the big software companies are growing their Seattle presence.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - kabdib 10y ago
    Many companies are hiring in the Seattle area. And there's always Microsoft . . . or Amazon, if you're hungry (in several senses of the phrase :-) ). As to the climate: I spent 20 years in Silly Valley, have lived in the Seattle area for 12 now, and I don't miss the Bay Area at all.
  - BuckRogers 10y ago
    I updated the post, I meant it's odd that it was on that list. Seattle is one of my favorite places.
- beachstartup 10y ago
  it's the weather. in the past i frequently spent up to a 3 weeks at a time there and i couldn't live there unless you paid me way, way more than what a software engineer could make.
  - RP_Joe 10y ago
    Rain, Rain and more rain.
- dennyabraham 10y ago
  we represent chicago fairly well in the whoishiring threads. plenty of places have what you're hoping for!
- marssaxman 10y ago
  As a long time Seattlite it seems perfectly obvious - this place went software crazy during the dot-com bubble and has only been getting more so over the last decade. Amazon appears to be single-handedly redeveloping a long-neglected neighborhood adjacent to downtown; big glass towers and everything. It is visible, significant, and not a new trend. I'm actually surprised to hear Atlanta and Chicago have enough of a software industry going on to be noticed - from around here you'd think the software industry consisted of Silicon Valley first and Seattle second with New York ignoring Seattle and pretending to be a big deal because they can't imagine being anything other than the center of the universe, while basically failing due to their terminally uncool preoccupation with big money. Austin shows up on our cultural radar as a lesser tech center sometimes; I spent several years working remote for a company based there. Influence seems to have ebbed somewhat as the web has become ascendant.
  - BuckRogers 10y ago
    I've been in Austin for 3 years now working my same job remotely back in Chicago- my takeaway is that Austin is fueled primarily by California money. I love the meetup communities here, strong Python and a larger Elixir meetup than most areas have. It's a pretty good place and I think its influence is growing. I like to see 'middle of the map' locales like Austin and Chicago doing well. We liked it so much in the NW that we were actually going to move to Portland or Seattle a few years back, but learning the facts about the Cascadia Fault has permanently spooked us. Other than that and maybe the weather it's fantastic (my wife prefers that dreary weather so it would work). While the midwest vibe is something that is intrinsic to who I am and I love the midwest, the PNW is my favorite part of the country. An absolute no brainer without that fault line. Civilized, clean, well-educated populace, strong economy.
- Lambent_Cactus 10y ago
  I'd love to talk to you about our devops team. What's the best way to get in contact?
  - BuckRogers 10y ago
    Hm, I haven't been looking for years.. but why not. Let's chat. forumemail123 at g mail dotcom. Thanks!
- nlawalker 10y ago
  Just saw a bit on the news this morning about how Facebook is still looking to hire 1000 more people to fill up their big new campus here, plus Google's campus in Kirkland is perpetually growing and I think they're building a big new office in downtown Seattle as well.
  - marssaxman 10y ago
    They just finished it - I dropped by last week to have lunch with a friend who works there. Nice place.
- Taylor_OD 10y ago
  Can you talk tomorrow at 4:00PM cst? If I cant get you interviews at four companies willing to pay 110K I'll be incredibly surprised. Edit: Email me. taylor.dorsett@jobspringpartners.com or dorsetttaylor@gmail.com Linkedin page for proof that I'm real: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett
devonkim 10y ago
I looked at the cities with average salaries and saw that they were at an average of $110k. Why would you bother with that kind of salary when you can work for a SV based company remotely for probably more cash and better growth opportunities? It's rather rare to get stock options or grants to begin with. Then add in how unexciting the companies are typically (can someone even name a tech-heavy company from Kansas City that's not an onshore outsourcing center like a lot of NC's RTP area or much of the Southeast?). Unlike the FB or Googler comparisons often cited I'm nobody special or talented and managed to get $130k+ from miserly employers in not very tech friendly areas, so I can't see how anyone with decent talent taking local jobs in places with as horrible traffic like Chicago or Atlanta with solid career prospects would want to go there. Lack of locally grown talent from universities certainly isn't a problem for most (Georgia Tech is pretty solid, for example). So doesn't that mean they're suffering from brain drain to a fair degree?
- dennyabraham 10y ago
  comparable quality of life at 110 in chicago is ~180 in sv and probably much higher elsewhere. also, traffic in a place like chicago is an experience very few people in tech ever deal with, given the mass transport.
  - sb8244 10y ago
    Can confirm. I work in Atlanta and most people I know don't deal with traffic. Maybe a little but not crazy. There are lots of places to live on public transit and lots of companies hiring on those lines.
    - zellyn 10y ago
      Really? When we returned to Atlanta, we bought a pretty expensive house in Morningside, so that we can be close in and not deal with traffic. Most people I know in Atlanta have to deal with terrible amounts of traffic.
      - lostcolony 10y ago
joezydeco 10y ago
I'm in Chicago and I'd jump in a second if someone was offering a competitive salary. Nobody is budging here. They're trying to find senior devs with junior salaries.
- misiti3780 10y ago
  how are the consulting opportunities there?
  - borkborkbork 10y ago
    Chicago consultancies won't pay you market rate either
    - tptacek 10y ago
      Working as an FTE for a consultancy isn't consulting.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I co-founded and co-managed a decent-sized consulting practice that served NYC, Chicago, and SFBA simultaneously. Chicago is, I think, a better city to consult from than SFBA is (it's close, though). There are more opportunities to do contract dev for tech companies in SFBA, of course, but contracting jobs in SFBA tend to allow remote workers. Meanwhile, the business community in Chicago is much more diverse, so if the kind of work you do is amenable to solving problems that "Fortune 500 companies that don't employ 1,000 software developers" have, Chicago is full of prospects.
- Taylor_OD 10y ago
  What are you targeting? I'd love to chat tomorrow at 4:30PM. Edit: Email me. taylor.dorsett@jobspringpartners.com or dorsetttaylor@gmail.com Linkedin page for proof that I'm real: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett
  - joezydeco 10y ago
hackaflocka 10y ago
I'd love to hear HN readers' explanations of the differences between these terms: - mobile engineer vs. mobile developer - software developer vs. general software engineer vs. software architect
- ryanSrich 10y ago
  About 30% in pay...always call yourself an engineer if you're a developer.
  - hackaflocka 10y ago
    LOL. I think you're on to something.
- spydum 10y ago
  developer only writes code for a component (maybe to a spec), engineer has responsibility for either operations, or individual component/solution design. Architect is responsible for a comprehensive set of solutions. Not sure everybody delineates that way, but that is how I've seen it play out.
eschaton 10y ago
It's amazing how employers seem to think they're exempt from supply and demand. The real problem is that employers in those areas can't find employees in those areas at the rates they want to pay—and not just in monetary terms. Employers outside California often demand onerous non-compete agreements, and claim they're "standard." Employers outside California often lowball candidates, and claim "that's the average pay here, besides that the cost of living is lower!" Guess what? If you want to hire now, you're competing with employers in an area with beautiful weather, high pay, AND state law prohibiting non-compete agreements that actually gets upheld regularly in court. That means you need to actually make at least as attractive an offer just to keep up.
- balls187 10y ago
  Generally speaking, we don't advertise the salary range for positions. So when we find it difficult to fill a role, it's not because we're not going to pay a competitive salary. It's more likely because the candidates that are applying aren't the right fit. When that happens, we revamp our sourcing approach: change the JD, tweak the keywords we filter on, etc. > Employers outside California often lowball candidates, and claim "that's the average pay here, besides that the cost of living is lower!" With websites like Glassdoor and Payscale it's pretty trivial to determine the market rate in a given location. It's probably a variety of factors, but I believe one factor is a lot of the companies (at least in Seattle) are companies you haven't really read about in Techcrunch, Re//code, or even HN. While the big-cos: facebook, msft, Amazon, Google, have their share of open job recs, they at least have the brand name recognition to recruit engineers. Silicon Valley probably has their share of off-brand software companies, but by and large, there are many more house-hold names there.
  - tomp 10y ago
    > Generally speaking, we don't advertise the salary range for positions. That's your clue, right there. Many people (myself included, but this is not me saying that I would clear your bar or be the right fit) won't even consider applying to "competitive salary" job ads, because that claim is just as easy to make and just as empty as "miraculous weight-loss dies pills".
burger_moon 10y ago
Sure didn't feel desperate in Atlanta last fall when I was looking for a job. I left the state and got a job elsewhere.
- frankydp 10y ago
  That comment is a surprise. The demand in ATL is pretty crazy. That being said, if you are not wanting to go downtown things can get pretty scarce in a hurry. On a side note, Atlanta is very much a recruiter town. The size of even the smaller firms lends them to recruiter models. Other than the startups in the incubators, the "small" software companies are 100+.
buttershakes 10y ago
I'm constantly getting lowballed by recruiters in NY. The truth is these places aren't paying enough to get the talent. I.e trying to pay good local rates, when software development is increasingly remote and world wide.
ilostmykeys 10y ago
The situation is beyond hopeless
tomp 10y ago
I'm desperate for a Ferrari. But I'd rather not pay for it...
Taylor_OD 10y ago
Tech Recruiter here in Chicago. It depends on the field/tech stack. Looking for a Windows DevOps engineer? Good luck. Need a senior .net developer? No problem. Enterprise .net and java have been in chicago forever so there are plenty of developers. Mobile, Automated QA, DevOps, even Ruby developers are all a lot more difficult to find here. I think that's quickly changing though. I've helped two guys from Florida and another from Nashville relocate here this year. Those type of people hit the ceiling in their smallish tech community and gravitate to a legitimize tech hub like Chicago. Edit: I'll add a self promotional bit here... I read hackernews on my own for fun but I am a tech recruiter in Chicago. I am confidant that I cant help almost any 2-8 year software developer looking for 80K-120K find a new job. I don't code but I can promise you I am better than most the recruiters that message you every day. If you are interested in chatting, even if you are not looking right now, i'd love to talk. Proof I'm a real person: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett I got a couple reviews on there from some people you may know if you are local to chicago. Email me at taylor.dorsett@jobspringpartners.com or dorsetttaylor@gmail.com
revisualize 10y ago
Where are those Junior: DevOps Engineer, general software engineer, and front-end developer jobs? Is it the responsibility of the job market to allow people to gain the experience needed to fill the mid-level and senior level jobs. Overall, how are we as aspiring developers supposed to gain the needed experience to fill the demanding roles? I have several years of experience in IT via System/Network Administration and I've been teaching myself programming after my work hours (mostly JavaScript over the last 8 months). I've taken the Microsoft Virtual Academy for Introduction to Programming with Python, Getting Started with PowerShell 3.0, Advanced Tools & Scripting with PowerShell 3.0; Codecademy for HTML/CSS, JavaScript, Python even college for C# and a myriad of other free online courses to push my knowledge further. As an individual that lives in Seattle, I'd love to fill an engaging and exciting opportunity to round out my experience while growing my skill set. Sadly, I'm just not seeing the opportunities out there that would allow me to move forward. I know that there are some that would say, create the opportunities to move your career forward. But, as an individual that is bound by an employment contract that has an "Employment Exclusivity" clause and broad reaching "Ownership Of Intangible Property" clause. That is extremely difficult. There's also the other side of the thought process that states if companies are truly desperate for talent, that they'd find a way to curate and grow the talent in those areas to fill the demand. I don't know if that is even happening. Hell, I'd even be willing to work at sub-standard wages if I was able to find an organization that is willing to work to mentor a candidate to solidify their skills and experience. (No, my current employer doesn't do that.) Average wage is what 89k/yr ... I'm pretty sure that several people would be willing to work for $54k to $60k if it meant the opportunity to grow their skills, knowledge and work on exciting projects. But, maybe I'm just thinking of myself here.
chriscampbell 10y ago
I feel like this will be controversial to this thread but what about companies that do match SV wages? I am sure there are several in all these cities, there are many in Chicago. it is super difficult to find the talented candidates that are passionate, curious and are down for solving complex issues at the seniority we want to higher at. Maybe I am wrong to think its not a salary thing, the market doesn't currently have / isn't pulling in enough talent to feed the demand. Do the HN economists think if the salaries were raised 20% in a market it would correct the problem?
cheradenine01 10y ago
Translation: Companies idea of "Market Rate" is not, in fact "Market Rate".

35 points by teklaperry 10y ago

I'm graduating from a Seattle area college on Saturday. This is exciting news to hear.

Not surprised about Chicago and Atlanta but Seattle seems odd to be on that list. It's a great town that I'd love to be stuck in. I'm from Chicago and currently in Austin. My wife and I would be happy to move back, if anyone has 110K for me. Fork that over with no on-call rotation and I'll join your devops team.

forrestthewoods 10y ago
Why is Seattle odd? Tech is booming here! Largely fueled by Amazon at the moment. But all the big software companies are growing their Seattle presence.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- kabdib 10y ago
  Many companies are hiring in the Seattle area. And there's always Microsoft . . . or Amazon, if you're hungry (in several senses of the phrase :-) ). As to the climate: I spent 20 years in Silly Valley, have lived in the Seattle area for 12 now, and I don't miss the Bay Area at all.
- BuckRogers 10y ago
  I updated the post, I meant it's odd that it was on that list. Seattle is one of my favorite places.
beachstartup 10y ago
it's the weather. in the past i frequently spent up to a 3 weeks at a time there and i couldn't live there unless you paid me way, way more than what a software engineer could make.
- RP_Joe 10y ago
  Rain, Rain and more rain.
dennyabraham 10y ago
we represent chicago fairly well in the whoishiring threads. plenty of places have what you're hoping for!
marssaxman 10y ago
As a long time Seattlite it seems perfectly obvious - this place went software crazy during the dot-com bubble and has only been getting more so over the last decade. Amazon appears to be single-handedly redeveloping a long-neglected neighborhood adjacent to downtown; big glass towers and everything. It is visible, significant, and not a new trend. I'm actually surprised to hear Atlanta and Chicago have enough of a software industry going on to be noticed - from around here you'd think the software industry consisted of Silicon Valley first and Seattle second with New York ignoring Seattle and pretending to be a big deal because they can't imagine being anything other than the center of the universe, while basically failing due to their terminally uncool preoccupation with big money. Austin shows up on our cultural radar as a lesser tech center sometimes; I spent several years working remote for a company based there. Influence seems to have ebbed somewhat as the web has become ascendant.
- BuckRogers 10y ago
  I've been in Austin for 3 years now working my same job remotely back in Chicago- my takeaway is that Austin is fueled primarily by California money. I love the meetup communities here, strong Python and a larger Elixir meetup than most areas have. It's a pretty good place and I think its influence is growing. I like to see 'middle of the map' locales like Austin and Chicago doing well. We liked it so much in the NW that we were actually going to move to Portland or Seattle a few years back, but learning the facts about the Cascadia Fault has permanently spooked us. Other than that and maybe the weather it's fantastic (my wife prefers that dreary weather so it would work). While the midwest vibe is something that is intrinsic to who I am and I love the midwest, the PNW is my favorite part of the country. An absolute no brainer without that fault line. Civilized, clean, well-educated populace, strong economy.
Lambent_Cactus 10y ago
I'd love to talk to you about our devops team. What's the best way to get in contact?
- BuckRogers 10y ago
  Hm, I haven't been looking for years.. but why not. Let's chat. forumemail123 at g mail dotcom. Thanks!
nlawalker 10y ago
Just saw a bit on the news this morning about how Facebook is still looking to hire 1000 more people to fill up their big new campus here, plus Google's campus in Kirkland is perpetually growing and I think they're building a big new office in downtown Seattle as well.
- marssaxman 10y ago
  They just finished it - I dropped by last week to have lunch with a friend who works there. Nice place.
Taylor_OD 10y ago
Can you talk tomorrow at 4:00PM cst? If I cant get you interviews at four companies willing to pay 110K I'll be incredibly surprised. Edit: Email me. taylor.dorsett@jobspringpartners.com or dorsetttaylor@gmail.com Linkedin page for proof that I'm real: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett

devonkim 10y ago

I looked at the cities with average salaries and saw that they were at an average of $110k. Why would you bother with that kind of salary when you can work for a SV based company remotely for probably more cash and better growth opportunities? It's rather rare to get stock options or grants to begin with. Then add in how unexciting the companies are typically (can someone even name a tech-heavy company from Kansas City that's not an onshore outsourcing center like a lot of NC's RTP area or much of the Southeast?). Unlike the FB or Googler comparisons often cited I'm nobody special or talented and managed to get $130k+ from miserly employers in not very tech friendly areas, so I can't see how anyone with decent talent taking local jobs in places with as horrible traffic like Chicago or Atlanta with solid career prospects would want to go there. Lack of locally grown talent from universities certainly isn't a problem for most (Georgia Tech is pretty solid, for example). So doesn't that mean they're suffering from brain drain to a fair degree?

dennyabraham 10y ago
comparable quality of life at 110 in chicago is ~180 in sv and probably much higher elsewhere. also, traffic in a place like chicago is an experience very few people in tech ever deal with, given the mass transport.
- sb8244 10y ago
  Can confirm. I work in Atlanta and most people I know don't deal with traffic. Maybe a little but not crazy. There are lots of places to live on public transit and lots of companies hiring on those lines.
  - zellyn 10y ago
    Really? When we returned to Atlanta, we bought a pretty expensive house in Morningside, so that we can be close in and not deal with traffic. Most people I know in Atlanta have to deal with terrible amounts of traffic.
    - lostcolony 10y ago

joezydeco 10y ago

I'm in Chicago and I'd jump in a second if someone was offering a competitive salary. Nobody is budging here. They're trying to find senior devs with junior salaries.

misiti3780 10y ago
how are the consulting opportunities there?
- borkborkbork 10y ago
  Chicago consultancies won't pay you market rate either
  - tptacek 10y ago
    Working as an FTE for a consultancy isn't consulting.
- tptacek 10y ago
  I co-founded and co-managed a decent-sized consulting practice that served NYC, Chicago, and SFBA simultaneously. Chicago is, I think, a better city to consult from than SFBA is (it's close, though). There are more opportunities to do contract dev for tech companies in SFBA, of course, but contracting jobs in SFBA tend to allow remote workers. Meanwhile, the business community in Chicago is much more diverse, so if the kind of work you do is amenable to solving problems that "Fortune 500 companies that don't employ 1,000 software developers" have, Chicago is full of prospects.
Taylor_OD 10y ago
What are you targeting? I'd love to chat tomorrow at 4:30PM. Edit: Email me. taylor.dorsett@jobspringpartners.com or dorsetttaylor@gmail.com Linkedin page for proof that I'm real: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett
- joezydeco 10y ago

hackaflocka 10y ago

I'd love to hear HN readers' explanations of the differences between these terms: - mobile engineer vs. mobile developer - software developer vs. general software engineer vs. software architect

ryanSrich 10y ago
About 30% in pay...always call yourself an engineer if you're a developer.
- hackaflocka 10y ago
  LOL. I think you're on to something.
spydum 10y ago
developer only writes code for a component (maybe to a spec), engineer has responsibility for either operations, or individual component/solution design. Architect is responsible for a comprehensive set of solutions. Not sure everybody delineates that way, but that is how I've seen it play out.

eschaton 10y ago

It's amazing how employers seem to think they're exempt from supply and demand. The real problem is that employers in those areas can't find employees in those areas at the rates they want to pay—and not just in monetary terms. Employers outside California often demand onerous non-compete agreements, and claim they're "standard." Employers outside California often lowball candidates, and claim "that's the average pay here, besides that the cost of living is lower!" Guess what? If you want to hire now, you're competing with employers in an area with beautiful weather, high pay, AND state law prohibiting non-compete agreements that actually gets upheld regularly in court. That means you need to actually make at least as attractive an offer just to keep up.

balls187 10y ago
Generally speaking, we don't advertise the salary range for positions. So when we find it difficult to fill a role, it's not because we're not going to pay a competitive salary. It's more likely because the candidates that are applying aren't the right fit. When that happens, we revamp our sourcing approach: change the JD, tweak the keywords we filter on, etc. > Employers outside California often lowball candidates, and claim "that's the average pay here, besides that the cost of living is lower!" With websites like Glassdoor and Payscale it's pretty trivial to determine the market rate in a given location. It's probably a variety of factors, but I believe one factor is a lot of the companies (at least in Seattle) are companies you haven't really read about in Techcrunch, Re//code, or even HN. While the big-cos: facebook, msft, Amazon, Google, have their share of open job recs, they at least have the brand name recognition to recruit engineers. Silicon Valley probably has their share of off-brand software companies, but by and large, there are many more house-hold names there.
- tomp 10y ago
  > Generally speaking, we don't advertise the salary range for positions. That's your clue, right there. Many people (myself included, but this is not me saying that I would clear your bar or be the right fit) won't even consider applying to "competitive salary" job ads, because that claim is just as easy to make and just as empty as "miraculous weight-loss dies pills".

burger_moon 10y ago

Sure didn't feel desperate in Atlanta last fall when I was looking for a job. I left the state and got a job elsewhere.

frankydp 10y ago
That comment is a surprise. The demand in ATL is pretty crazy. That being said, if you are not wanting to go downtown things can get pretty scarce in a hurry. On a side note, Atlanta is very much a recruiter town. The size of even the smaller firms lends them to recruiter models. Other than the startups in the incubators, the "small" software companies are 100+.

buttershakes 10y ago

I'm constantly getting lowballed by recruiters in NY. The truth is these places aren't paying enough to get the talent. I.e trying to pay good local rates, when software development is increasingly remote and world wide.

ilostmykeys 10y ago

The situation is beyond hopeless

tomp 10y ago

I'm desperate for a Ferrari. But I'd rather not pay for it...

Taylor_OD 10y ago

Tech Recruiter here in Chicago. It depends on the field/tech stack. Looking for a Windows DevOps engineer? Good luck. Need a senior .net developer? No problem. Enterprise .net and java have been in chicago forever so there are plenty of developers. Mobile, Automated QA, DevOps, even Ruby developers are all a lot more difficult to find here. I think that's quickly changing though. I've helped two guys from Florida and another from Nashville relocate here this year. Those type of people hit the ceiling in their smallish tech community and gravitate to a legitimize tech hub like Chicago. Edit: I'll add a self promotional bit here... I read hackernews on my own for fun but I am a tech recruiter in Chicago. I am confidant that I cant help almost any 2-8 year software developer looking for 80K-120K find a new job. I don't code but I can promise you I am better than most the recruiters that message you every day. If you are interested in chatting, even if you are not looking right now, i'd love to talk. Proof I'm a real person: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylordorsett I got a couple reviews on there from some people you may know if you are local to chicago. Email me at taylor.dorsett@jobspringpartners.com or dorsetttaylor@gmail.com

revisualize 10y ago

Where are those Junior: DevOps Engineer, general software engineer, and front-end developer jobs? Is it the responsibility of the job market to allow people to gain the experience needed to fill the mid-level and senior level jobs. Overall, how are we as aspiring developers supposed to gain the needed experience to fill the demanding roles? I have several years of experience in IT via System/Network Administration and I've been teaching myself programming after my work hours (mostly JavaScript over the last 8 months). I've taken the Microsoft Virtual Academy for Introduction to Programming with Python, Getting Started with PowerShell 3.0, Advanced Tools & Scripting with PowerShell 3.0; Codecademy for HTML/CSS, JavaScript, Python even college for C# and a myriad of other free online courses to push my knowledge further. As an individual that lives in Seattle, I'd love to fill an engaging and exciting opportunity to round out my experience while growing my skill set. Sadly, I'm just not seeing the opportunities out there that would allow me to move forward. I know that there are some that would say, create the opportunities to move your career forward. But, as an individual that is bound by an employment contract that has an "Employment Exclusivity" clause and broad reaching "Ownership Of Intangible Property" clause. That is extremely difficult. There's also the other side of the thought process that states if companies are truly desperate for talent, that they'd find a way to curate and grow the talent in those areas to fill the demand. I don't know if that is even happening. Hell, I'd even be willing to work at sub-standard wages if I was able to find an organization that is willing to work to mentor a candidate to solidify their skills and experience. (No, my current employer doesn't do that.) Average wage is what 89k/yr ... I'm pretty sure that several people would be willing to work for $54k to $60k if it meant the opportunity to grow their skills, knowledge and work on exciting projects. But, maybe I'm just thinking of myself here.

chriscampbell 10y ago

I feel like this will be controversial to this thread but what about companies that do match SV wages? I am sure there are several in all these cities, there are many in Chicago. it is super difficult to find the talented candidates that are passionate, curious and are down for solving complex issues at the seniority we want to higher at. Maybe I am wrong to think its not a salary thing, the market doesn't currently have / isn't pulling in enough talent to feed the demand. Do the HN economists think if the salaries were raised 20% in a market it would correct the problem?

cheradenine01 10y ago

Translation: Companies idea of "Market Rate" is not, in fact "Market Rate".