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Monument Valley in Numbers: Year 2
- fasteddie 10y agoMonument Valley, one of the most polished and loved premium mobile games ever, has made $15m in its lifetime. Meanwhile, there are multiple F2P games with over $1b in revenue. Now, $15m is fantastic, especially for a small studio. But high-production value F2P games from bigger studios cost around $3-5m to make, not including marketing/UA, so its pretty clear to see why studios aren't investing in premium titles at all, unless they are ports of existing content.
- Steko 10y agoI love MV but I've gotten 100x the enjoyment from Boom Beach which was released around the same time and on which I've spent a grand total of $5 which could easily have been zero. The conventional wisdom around much of the internet about f2p is, while true for many titles, just incredibly myopic as a general pigeonhole. F2P games can be great. Clash Royale, on which I've spent nothing, is by far the best new mobile game I've played in over a year.
- voltagex_ 10y agoHow pushy is it in regards to buying consumables? I don't mind F2P with a $2-$5 "no ads" unlock or similar. (I'll get unreasonably angry if I see a single ad after that, though)
- Splines 10y agoAFAIK it doesn't have ads, you pay for in-game currency to spend on cards which can also be won in-game. It's entirely possible to play the game without spending any money, although grinding may or may not be fun. I played a bit when it launched and stopped after a week or two.
- moomin 10y agoI've played it for months, haven't spent a penny. The only thing you really get from spending money is tougher opponents anyway.
- forgetsusername 10y agoI love that you've received downvotes for expressing an opinion. I've also enjoyed playing Clash Royale, and have nothing against F2P as a model, generally.
- ricardobeat 10y agoCan you provide some examples?
- j2bax 10y agoCandy Crush, Clash of Clans.
- fasteddie 10y agoClash of Clans, Candy Crush, Game of War, Puzzle and Dragons, and I believe Monster Strike have all crossed the $1b mark.
- hkmurakami 10y agoI'd add Line/Disney's Tsumtsum to that list. Possibly Shironeko by Koropura.
- aaronbrethorst 10y agoMeanwhile, there are multiple F2P games with over $1b in revenue True, but at least the folks at ustwo games still have their souls.
- minimaxir 10y agoIt's really not fair to keep citing the "F2P is evil!" meme nowadays. If you haven't played a F2P game in 2016, I strongly recommend taking a look. Game like Clash Royale, Hearthstone, and Kingdom Hearts are fair and are not aggressive/condescending toward in the goal of generating revenue. Mostly because developers finally realized that making a good game is just as important as monetization.
- aaronbrethorst 10y agoSo Supercell, Blizzard, and Square Enix/Success are not awful. That's great, but what about all of the others? Kabam, Big Fish, Machine Zone, King, Playtika, EA, and the list goes on.
- 1123581321 10y agoHearthstone is a unique bird as its playerbase is used to Blizzard and Magic and so expects to pay something like a AAA game price for card unlocks. It's not really necessary for Blizzard to sell the idea of paying in Hearthstone. Clash Royale is very aggressive about getting money. It does appear passive because it's better for revenue if non-enthusiastic players progress slowly, but trying to do anything but play a few games a day without spending money is intentionally made difficult as you'll run into progress blocks faster that way. It's quite clever. It also benefits from increased sophistication of players in that it can signal when to make the premium purchases more subtly than was necessary a few years ago. I haven't played Assassin's Creed, but it makes sense to me that a AAA game franchise has a better chance standing out on mobile as a premium game, rather than associating with less prestigious IP. I certainly think Ubi has learned from its poor attempts to milk its lower-priority IP by farming it out to F2P developers, so a transition has been made in the company overall.
- 10y ago
- forrestthewoods 10y agoIt's even worse than that. ustwo isn't a small studio. They're a digital product studio with offices in London, Sydney, Malmö, and New York. They have a few hundred employees. Their games are basically marketing for their real business.
- ThomPete 10y agoHow is that worse? Most of their employeess are making other things than Monument Valley making money in many other ways. Not sure what the problem is.
- PhasmaFelis 10y agoIt's worse for gamers, because it implies that making good-quality premium games is not sustainable as a primary revenue stream.
- tamana 10y agoWhy should making a game 2 years ago be a revenue stream today?
- minimaxir 10y agoInterestingly, there's game theory in play: some developers nowadays are switching to premium games (Assassin's Creed and Crashlands for recent examples) because there is too much competition in the F2P space. Even super polished games with premium licenses get left in the dust if they do not catch on immediately. (Star Wars: Uprising and Marvel's Avengers Alliance 2 for examples). Whether or not that's a good idea is hard to determine without hard numbers, though.
- Falcon9 10y agoI can't speak to Assasin's Creed, but in the case of Crashlands we can see that it was a very good idea: they've made enough money that for the first time they're paying themselves salary and even expanding their studio with two new hires. There's no way their original F2P plans for that game would have succeeded at that level - I bought the game because it was premium and because I had a good experience with the premium game Punch Club that same week and wanted more "real gaming." (I've since become a gigantic fan of Butterscotch Shenanigans, the developer, and have a lot of insight into their operations. Their Game Dev comedy podcast, Coffee with Butterscotch, is the highlight of my week.) Of course that works for them because they're a small studio with small budgets aren't looking for Clash of Clans levels of success. The ceiling is so much lower on a premium game, but it's plenty high for their current situation, and the competition is so much less severe (so the risk is way lower for such a quality game, which again fits their situation).
- ThomPete 10y agoThey have also invested many many many times what UsTwo have in marketing budgets and development of the game.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- AJRF 10y agoRead a wired article that SuperCell spends $5m a day on advertising.
- ThomPete 10y agoYeah exactly. Revenue is big but what is profit?
- hullo 10y ago"With just 3 games, Supercell made $924M in profits on $2.3B in revenue in 2015" http://venturebeat.com/2016/03/09/with-just-3-games-supercell-made-924m-in-profits-on-2-3b-in-revenue-in-2015/ http://venturebeat.com/2016/03/09/with-just-3-games-supercel...
- ambicapter 10y agoThose F2P games are in a whole different league of replayability compared to Monument Valley. I played through MV once. The F2P games you refer to are endless competitions.
- Splines 10y agoTheoretically, yes. But I've played plenty of F2P games without dumping a single cent in, eventually hit the paywall and delete the game. (I think the minute you pay a single penny into the game, sunk cost fallacy sets in, so I avoid starting that in the first place).
- sleepychu 10y agoIs that "I already spent Xk$ for that to have been worthwhile I really should buy this other thing for y$?"
- Splines 10y agoPretty much. I wouldn't be surprised if F2P games price their offerings to get people "on the treadmill". As they progress through the game it starts requiring more and more money to sustain your current pace.
- sleepychu 10y agoThis task is supposed to take you 1 day but we'll let you skip to playing the game for 0.10$!
- hueving 10y agoTrue, from a gamer's perspective those games are trash, but unfortunately studios discovered it's much easier to make money selling cocaine rather than a fine cuisine.
- vacri 10y agoThe same is true of movies. The regurgative crap pulls in the bux, so that's what's made. It makes more sense when you think of the industry as a business rather than a charity.
- vonklaus 10y ago> has made $15m in its lifetime Is that true? I thought (even though it says 2015) that the ~5m ish was total revenue for the project? This seemed pretty good, and clearly I was happy for the devs as over a 3 year period if you back out the costs and divide by 3 it was ~$1.4M profit a year, a nice bottom line. $15m would be better, but again not the mega block buster. Where did that $15 number come from btw? less office/backoffice/distribution ect...so not really a bottom line.
- dav- 10y agoCheck the infographic[1] again, it states $14.3m all-time revenue. [1] https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/1600/1*OnCkdwQnNOOQNGMszDJqGQ.png https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/1600/1*OnCkdwQnNOO...
- vonklaus 10y agoahh thanks. I was looking at just the year 2 stats[0]. Good for them. Not only is the disclosure/information super cool and forthcoming and a good way to help out the community, but just a cool take on an industry that is typically secretive and cutththroat. [0]http://blog.monumentvalleygame.com/blog/2015/1/15/monument-valley-in-numbers http://blog.monumentvalleygame.com/blog/2015/1/15/monument-v...
- archagon 10y agoI see them as entirely different products. Casinos will always make more money than museums.
- dspillett 10y ago> Meanwhile, there are multiple F2P games with over $1b in revenue. But how many make near to nothing? I'm told that some, small-to-medium players particularly, are moving back towards premium because the initial effort of generating sufficient content (or tweaking and testing the algorithms that generate content programatically, or fine-tuning the balance of PvP/co-op segments) is quite a risk. The bigger players can afford to invest in a number of such projects on the risk/value analysis of one or two being successful will more than cover the cost of the ones that aren't, and very small players (individuals, small indie groups) do it by sinking time not money (i.e. products that start out as an experiment or side project), but in between it becomes harder to justify.
- ericcholis 10y agoAmazing Indie films pale in box office numbers compared to summer blockbusters. Both have their place and will attract different type of creative individuals.
- radiorental 10y agoAnd from another perspective, each will attract different types of developers. MV is less about making money than it is about challenging oneself, delivering a creative vision and being outside the mainstream.
- superbatfish 10y agoThe link lists interesting stats about their revenue. Does anybody know if they've published estimates on their costs (team size, developer hours, etc)?
- jack_pp 10y agoOriginal one [0] says 55 weeks / $852,000 for original and 29 weeks / $549,000 for the sequel . Team size : 8 core team members [0] http://blog.monumentvalleygame.com/blog/2015/1/15/monument-valley-in-numbers http://blog.monumentvalleygame.com/blog/2015/1/15/monument-v...
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- shahzeb 10y agoAlright then. Time to crack open XCode and get to work on my incredibly mediocre game which will not even pull 0.000003% of these numbers. :-)
- joeld42 10y agoKeep at it: 1. You never know if it will be a surprise hit (Crossy Road) 2. All of my game projects have made very little money, but have had unexpected side benefits that made them worthwhile. 3. It's fun. I enjoy making games more than playing them, so even if I'm wasting time, i can consider it entertainment. :)
- themartorana 10y ago4. You can write off other game purchases as research.
- johnydepp 10y agoThis happens to a lot of people. Keep on doing the good work and someday it will pay off. One thing to keep in mind is its better to work on one title and keep polishing it than working on multiple shitty things.
- iLoch 10y agoThis may be true for games (I'm not sure), but I'm not sure it's good advice for startups in general (in case anyone was thinking that.) Throw things at the wall and see what sticks. Don't fall victim to sunk cost fallacy.
- johnydepp 10y agoYou have a point. But today's world quality and polish matters a lot. Point is before you judge make sure you provided good quality and a polished product. The idea matters a lot but if you don't present it well its good for nothing.
- gberger 10y ago
- mevile 10y agoI don't understand why Android continues to do so badly in comparison to iOS revenue numbers. As an Android user it's very disappointing. Bigger user base, but almost inconsequential when it comes to revenue. I'm surprised game developers support Android at all, I want the games that are on iOS for my phone but even I'm not sure it's worth it.
- megablast 10y agoAndroid users don't but apps. The entire Android echo system is setup around ads, and ads don't have the return of paying for an app.
- bitmapbrother 10y agoI buy apps so what you're saying is BS.
- habosa 10y agoThis is just my guess, but Android phones are on average much cheaper than iPhones. An iPhone costs $400-800, the only Android phones in that range are the very top of the line (Samsung S7, LG G5). Most of the huge Android user base is on inexpensive phones sold for $0-100 on contract. While you can't say for sure that Android users have less money, you can say they're spending less money on their phones which likely means they'll spend less on apps on that phone.
- fasteddie 10y agoThis is partially because it is much, much, easier to pirate premium games on Android than it is on iOS. There are tons of 3rd party APK sites that are well trafficked. On F2P the platforms are much more equally split. Also, as Android has a higher footprint in Asia, making games that resonate with the Japanese/Korean audience is pretty important, and I'm not sure if Monument Valley qualifies.
- themartorana 10y agoThis is 100% true. Advertising-based revenue models are far superior on Android due to piracy. I have a Google alert set up for our games, and updates hit APK sites less than 24 hours after hitting the play store.
- exolymph 10y agoMonument Valley is one of the first mobile games I paid for, and I'm glad that it provided such an excellent experience -- unparalleled by anything I've tried since -- because even though other games I've bought since haven't been as beautiful or as fun as Monument Valley, it made me feel okay about buying games in general. If Monument Valley hadn't been good, I never would have ponied up for Smash Hit or any of my other favorites.
- mathattack 10y agoAwesome game. It's one of the few that I was ok with my kids expanding their iPad allotments to play.
- maxpert 10y agoShucks even Amazon made more than Windows
- derFunk 10y agoVery well deserved. This inventiveness has to be awarded. I'd be interested in even more numbers. What did they spend etc..
- moomin 10y agoJust to state the obvious: buy it. It's a great little game.
- orangecat 10y agoThe presentation is great, but it's very short and very easy. It's far from the best value I've gotten.
- moomin 10y agoFor the tiny amount of money I've spent on it, I'm happy. But by all means recommend some more titles. :)
- iwannayoyo 10y agoRidiculous Fishing was heavily recommended in another thread about mobile gaming recently, and I have to say it really lived up to the HN hype.
- Falcon9 10y agoCrashlands! An action adventure game with a crafting component that's fun even for people who don't like crafting games - you have an infinite auto-managed inventory that just gets out of your way - with a funny, quirky storyline and easily over 50 hours of gameplay, all for $5 (on mobile, or $15 on Steam). Oh, and there's cross-platform saves so you can spend $20 to get the game on both platforms and switch back and forth on your same saved game at your leisure! (I'm a big fan of Crashlands, as you can see.)
- Terribledactyl 10y agoI found it interesting that when only one of the stores had a special, the other store would also benefit.
- glasz 10y agothe infographic tells me we'll get new levels once more, at most, and that's it. dead.
- samstr 10y agoI would love a set of new levels once a year, as an annual tradition at the start of the summer. Whatever new add-ons they create, I'll be paying for and downloading immediately. Such a great game. I replay it every few months (enough time for the levels to feel fresh)
- erikpukinskis 10y agoI've been starting to accept that we've moved into an "IP never dies" era. Seeing Batman reborn over and over, Ghostbusters coming back, all this DLC... I've started to think that you release one original version of something, and then if people love it you just keep doing re-releases forever. Some people just like tradition and familiarity. I used to be a little more upset about the lack of fresh IPs being created, but I'm relaxing lately. You can still put the bulk of your team on the big ambitious new game, but I no longer see a problem in having a small team that just focuses on regular DLC for an old property. Even if it's just an annual "Monument Valley 2017" release with some new stages. The world changes, why not let your game adapt a little. It's almost like making a theme park with continuous admission than a game.
- glasz 10y agoagreed, samstr. sounds like a plan.
- shimfish 10y agoIt seems that a buried nugget of info here is how seemingly pointless Amazon Underground is in terms of revenue. Admittedly MV seems a bad fit for it because of its low replayability. Also, what's with iDreamSky? They basically give the game away for free to China for...what? Or is that part of the 6% "other"?