23 ms·

Tech layoffs more than double in Bay Area

494 points by akg_67 10y ago

lanestp 10y ago
Since I'm old and I went through the .com crash (I didn't get to participate in the boom) I hope my input is valid. This feels like more of a correction than a disaster. The job market has been super easy and mediocre workers have been commanding excessive salaries because of various socio-economic forces (high valuations and cost of living). At some point there had to be a cull of bad startups and workers. It's unfortunate for the individuals and companies involved but I think in a couple years we will be through this and it won't have been so bad.
- pcurve 10y ago
  I wish you are right, but I have a feeling this is beginning of more things to come. These things always pan out over much longer period than people predict. Unemployment rate is at multi year low.
  - dismal2 10y ago
    so is participation rate
- zeemonkee3 10y ago
  The problem is that these crashes hurt both good and bad workers. Every week you see the nth article posted here on how hiring is broken, from HR filtering to recruiters to interviewing. So how do good developers survive, if their skills and experience are essentially worthless in an opaque hiring process? One common answer is "networking" but that's a non-developer skill- a mediocre developer could be better at networking (maybe correlated - he's in the bar handing out business cards rather than working on his latest side project). A lot of good people get hurt in a downturn and either leave the industry or end up in low-paying, mediocre jobs just to hang on.
  - eva1984 10y ago
    It is not a problem. It will HAVE to happen at some point. Maybe the downturn of the market will drive companies to be pragmatic when choosing candidate, instead of trying to humiliate them with whiteboard teasers. Nevertheless, I don't think there is that much you and I can do about this, not the market, nor the hiring processes. What stays unchanged is when looking for a job, don't put eggs in one bucket.
    - zeemonkee3 10y ago
      If companies aren't pragmatic now, when supposedly demand outstrips supply, why would they change when conditions are reversed? I suspect they'd just double down and network will become even more important (you'll have more unemployed friends needing a hand).
      - eva1984 10y ago
        Yeah, network will be more important. I think they will stop looking at resumes that are not from internal referrals. And probably still some boring whiteboarding questions after that. But my hypothesis is, they would really try to hire someone with experience, because they won't spend time training him/her, just like what happens in the IC industry.
  - reality_hacker 10y ago
    If worker is good, and have enough cognitive power to learn all that algorithms and solve problems, he can land in Google/FB and enjoy life and safety.
CryoLogic 10y ago
In Seattle almost no companies have been hiring entry level devs for several months. Fortune 500 not excluded. Could it be lay-offs from CA migrating down to WA?
- iaw 10y ago
  It's hard to disentangle if those are due to CA lay-offs or if there are less CA lay-offs because of a migration due to COLA increases (my pet theory).
- vmarsy 10y ago
  source? Most entry level devs come by wave after graduation from College (+ post-graduation vacation). The number of those new college hires does not seem to have slow down, but only HR departments at those companies would know the exact trend.
- RyJones 10y ago
  Qualcomm just closed the Seattle and Bellevue offices over the last year, and Intel is doing the same.
- rconti 10y ago
  Typically it would be migrating up to WA (geographically north). Are you saying the layoff trend is migrating north? Or actual people who were laid-off are migrating north? Or something else? It wouldn't make sense for laid off workers to migrate north if there's less hiring there, but then, you're talking entry-level. I'm just not sure what's being asked here.
- myth17 10y ago
  Microsoft continues to hire in WA.
- thesimpsons1022 10y ago
  i have half a dozen friends who are graduating next month and going to Microsoft in Redmond. Many others going to Amazon. So not sure where you came up with this.
- 10y ago
dexterdog 10y ago
Krikey - Ghostery blocked 21 instances of a detected video player network on that page. What an overloaded mess.
- badloginagain 10y ago
  Start reading article, then all text pops below the fold as ads load, then the page hangs as more shit gets loaded. If I were on Firefox I'd use the Pocket Reader mode, which strips all the extraneous bs.
- danso 10y ago
  I have to give them props...I've been using AdBlock on Chrome, which seems to do just fine on major sites...this is the first time in a long while that I've visited a news site and seen a pop-up autoplay video ad.
  - mevile 10y ago
    It's tough times for local news.
    - dexterdog 10y ago
      ...And interesting times for ad blockers.
20years 10y ago
Can any of you from the Bay Area comment on if you have found it harder to find jobs lately? Are recruiters reaching out less than they did last year? I would be interested in hearing from some of you that have been laid off. Have you found another job in the Bay Area or did you have to leave?
- ISV_Damocles 10y ago
  I haven't really seen a letup in recruiters emailing me. Not one of the ones who was laid off, though.
- stale2002 10y ago
  I'm a couple years into the industry, and I'm still getting recruitment emails every day. But from what I hear from my friends, new college graduates, with no experience are having a tougher time getting jobs than how it used to be 2 years ago.
  - mevile 10y ago
    It's a mistake to equate recruitment emails with ability to get a job. There are many reasons for recruiters to send you emails that have very little to do with your likelihood of being hired. Talented engineers will always be difficult to find, though the challenge may change from trying to find one that's not employed to finding the best among those that need a job. Recruiters are just casting a wide net for a few seats. Some independent recruiters, given the payout involved, cast that net very wide (and generally contribute to low quality candidates stuffing up your hiring manager's inbox). Had you said you recently got a lot of offers, that would be a totally different story.
    - dredmorbius 10y ago
      Frequency matters far less than quality. Poor-quality VOIP line out of Noida: bottom-feeder. Local call, especially SF, PA, SJ, or similar, far better. Independents over firms, in my experience.
    - 10y ago
thedevil 10y ago
If I'm understanding the article, there was a net increase of 2400 jobs in the quarter. That's still pretty good. (Edit: it may seem gloomy by comparing to 2015, which seemed like an extremely good year). I googled a little because I was curious and found this: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends/percapita http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends/percapita San Jose #1, that looks good. Although San Francisco....
- r00fus 10y ago
  Are these postings or actual jobs filled?
  - thedevil 10y ago
    I assumed postings but not sure. It's just the most interesting google result I got looking around on this. Edit: I meant that my indeed link was about postings. My assumption was that the 2400 figure (800/month) from the article was net jobs added, not postings.
    - esmi 10y ago
      "Vitner's analysis of state employment data showed that Bay Area tech firms added only 800 jobs a month in the first quarter of 2016" I was going to post the same thing as your parent post but I think the source is state data so probably not postings. Maybe that what the numbers in the DE9C are for...
tyre 10y ago
This is a necessary, if painful, lesson. I remember the layoffs right before leaving LivingSocial in 2012. A raw, human catastrophe. Watching friends pack up their things, who had been sold on the culture and vision of what the company could be, was an eye opening experience. This is why you focus on business fundamentals. Not because it is sexy, not because you can tell ProductHunt about your run rate, and not because you want impress investors. Because if you fuck up, everyone who depends on you gets fucked. A few words of advice: - Before you raise money, ask yourself if that valuation is realistic or aspirational. If it is aspirational, know that you have to reach that valuation without raising another cent, just to break even. Ask yourself if you are default dead or alive. - Before you start a company, ask if it is solving a problem for customers or your desire "to be an entrepreneur." - Before you hire anyone, ask if their position is a need to have or a nice have. Like customers, few businesses can afford "nice to haves" - There is always capital available for businesses with strong fundamentals who are solving real needs. Layoffs are like throwing up from drinking. Not fun and nearly always your (the founders/managers') fault. - Pace yourself. - Build a company you're proud of. - Build something that people need. - Growth is great for slide decks, but employees can't use it to pay rent. Don't chase hypergrowth as an end in itself. Markets can stay irrational far longer than you can stay solvent, but they can also snap back to reality before you can wake-up.
- DarkTree 10y ago
  Right now it seems like there are two reasons for creating a company. One is for making a profitable business that creates wealth for the people invested. Two is for creating a product or service that customers need or want. These two revolve around servicing those invested, or the consumers of the product/service, or both. It's surprising to me that no one starts a company solely for creating an amazing place to work. A great workplace and work would be the product/service, and the employees the consumers of the product/service. Sure, you would have to have paying customers to fuel it, but that could always be secondary in some sense. Right now it seems like the workplace is secondary, so why not swap it? I'm sure there are a nice subset of people who would take less (even half) of their current salary just to work in a place that revolves around them and their experience working.. which is the majority of most of our days. Viable? Probably not, but it's interesting to think about and trying to imagine what that place would look like for you personally.
danso 10y ago
FYI if you're interested in the raw data from which this story is ostensibly based in part, I've dumped it into this Github repo: https://github.com/datahoarder/ca-warn https://github.com/datahoarder/ca-warn
JoshTriplett 10y ago
For anyone completely unable to view the article because it hangs trying to load: if you have HTTPS Everywhere installed, try disabling the "MNGInteractive" rule.
imron 10y ago
Those comments.... wow.
- kin 10y ago
  Right? I feel like there's no way to get a good legitimate discussion on any article w/o a community like HN or reddit that cares about their arbitrary karma system.
icdxpresso 10y ago
How worried should an entry level developer who has been working only 6 months at his current company be? Due to an extremely high cost of living, paying all my bills and student loans and such, I have very little money actually saved up. If I lost my job I'd have to pack my bags and move out of Silicon Valley ASAP. And I really haven't accomplished that much at work during the past 6 months because I joined during holiday season and pretty much spent like 3 months training. I'd be really fucked if I got laid off now.
- cylinder 10y ago
  Are the company's customers other startups or enterprise? How much are they burning vs what they've raised? Are they a consumer startup? Do they make money at all? Basically, imagine your company cannot raise another round of VC again. Will it survive? Also, are your loans federal? You should put them on Income Based Repayment if you can. It's more important to save up a cushion before paying student loans that have flexible options like that.
- saluki 10y ago
  Probably depends how your company is doing. Don't worry about it too much it's mostly out of your control. But don't ask about possible layoffs how the company is doing just keep a positive attitude. You can . . . focus at your job, learn what you can, take initiative, get things done, be a positive force on your team. Save what you can, trim expenses, eating out, etc. Getting laid off always sucks do what you can to be ready just in case. Polish up your resume and be ready to use it if needed. I expect you would get some severance to give you some time to bridge to a new job. Good luck.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Be concerned. Have a plan. Consider attacking your living expenses. Request a rent reduction from your landlord -- you're a known entity, and they're more likely to offer this if you ask than if you don't, and them more they've heard that request. Look at roommate situations. Don't make any big purchases. Do put away an emergency stash. One of the big problems the Bay Area faces right now is one that attacks its ongoing attractiveness as a tech hub: technical labour is losing its flexibility. Employment is contracting, slightly, but housing is so expensive that virtually nobody has any personal runtime if the paychecks stop. A considerable exodus from the area may make it less attractive in future. It's one thing to take a new job down the street, or even switch between San Jose and SF or SF and Oakland. It's another to shuttle back and forth, with household wares, from Cleveland to Palo Alto, every 6-18 months. It's also an opportunity for a new low-cost hub to establish itself. One with what makes SV tick, but doesn't have its problems. Unfortunately, most of the candidate destinations lack the legal environment, particularly labour law, which made SV so attractive. It's possible locations outside the US might emerge, though I'm not sure where that might be either. I'm not calling the end of SV, that would be idiotic (until its not, at which point it will be inspired). But the hub is entering a period of distinct vulnerability.
m1117 10y ago
We're actively hiring. If you were one of that let go people, please reach out to https://sendsonar.com https://sendsonar.com
- tariqali34 10y ago
  We're actively hiring too. If you need a job, just visit our website at http://example.com http://example.com. No need to explain how much we'll pay you per year, how long the interview process is, how likely it is that we'll hire you after the interview, how well we treat work-life balance, whether our company is dependent on venture capital, whether our company is even remotely close to generating profits...or even what the company actually does. We assume that you're desperate...ahem...brave enough for a job that'll you click on our hyperlink and reach out to us.
justinsingh 10y ago
My dad got laid off from the Fremont Western Digital location just the other day ago. He saw it coming as they were warned layoffs would keep coming (WD has been laying off workers since the middle of last year, I think). So luckily we moved to a nearby city with substantially lower housing prices than in San Jose, where we were spending lots more than we could justify on housing. If we had stayed in San Jose, we would be in some real big financial troubles- pretty much game over. But where we live now (which is actually in a house of the same size, just significantly cheaper) we are living more comfortably and happier without the stress of living in such an expensive city. Anyone living in an expensive city with a layoff seeming imminent should really be thinking on the long term about where it's best for their family to live. Going day to day wondering if you'll be able to keep your house is not a healthy way to live.
- Kinnard 10y ago
  Is your dad an engineer?
  - justinsingh 10y ago
    Data center/Network engineer
    - Kinnard 10y ago
      That's interesting. I feel a lot of people are arguing that engineers will largely be safe and will fare any trouble better anyway being in a higher income percentile. I was also under the impression that South Bay had at least a somewhat reasonable real estate market. I've never been down there. Network engineering seems more specialized/technical than web dev too. Best of luck.
      - chiph 10y ago
        If the firm is predominately staffed with engineers (either raw headcount, or by salary percentage), then there's no buffer against being laid off.
YZF 10y ago
"Today the Bay Area's total employment of 3,353,600 as of the end of March still reflects job growth, with 102,600 workers added from March 2015 through March 2016." The sky is not quite falling yet. There are many parts of the economy that are stalling and the impact on that is felt in companies that sell products into those markets. How things will develop is anyone's guess. I feel "Tech" will keep growing though some areas that perhaps were historically considered "Tech" might shrink. If you look at all the great things we can do with technology I think a lot of stuff is still ahead of us. It's just the natural way that things don't always go smoothly.
lsiebert 10y ago
It might be interesting to consider what layoffs cost companies in terms of confidence and morale.
dmode 10y ago
This article is very confusing to me. If we are concluding that startups are laying off due to funding squeeze, how is that San Francisco actually saw a decrease in lay offs ? SF is where most of the startups are based. Also, it says that layoffs totaled roughly 3000 in 4 months. Which comes down to 750 a month. Compare this to what the article said later that 32,000 jobs were lost per month during the recession. Finally, I couldn't figure how many jobs were added in this period, to get a context of the layoff percentage. Seems a little alarmist
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  I feel similarly. However, the article points out reporting differences for differently large companies and layoffs. That might factor in heavily. Would be nice though of the article had explicitly addressed that.
chrisper 10y ago
So, I am graduating next year and I have no internship experience (wasn't able to get one for this summer for whatever reasons). How doomed am I? Hopefully, by the time I am done, there is still at least one job left :( Although, I guess finding a job might be easier since I am willing to relocate etc.
- mulcahey 10y ago
  If you have some other stuff to show for yourself beyond a transcript you should be just fine. There are still TONS of places hiring that just aren't big sexy brands.
  - chrisper 10y ago
    Cool, thanks!
- ndesaulniers 10y ago
  My internship experiences made me a more confident programmer. My advice is start working on a personal project that you can show you're knowledgeable and passionate about. Differentiate yourself from your peers. I really loved iTunes, but wanted to be able to stream my music wherever I was. I built an iTunes clone as a web app. Simple web design, CRUD app, but the fanciness was what I learned about codecs, transcoding, and streaming. https://github.com/nickdesaulniers/audiostream/blob/master/routes/index.js#L43-L66 https://github.com/nickdesaulniers/audiostream/blob/master/r... The folks who interviewed me at Mozilla loved it and hired me. My current boss at Google loved my technical blog.
- Infinitesimus 10y ago
  You're not doomed imo. If your aim was to work at the next $coolStartup in silicon Valley then I'd say you have a good reason to be worried. There are still plenty of businesses hiring developers all over the country (I know of a lot here in MA and keep getting recruiter emails). You can always get an internship after gradutation, or an entry level role as a developer, or even an entry level role as a non-dev but still in a technical role to give you some experience. Play your cards right, reach out to several companies and you'll like be fine
sjg007 10y ago
There's layoffs and there's going out of business.
tn13 10y ago
Let us not panic here. Unlike 10 years ago most tech companies are taking more risk, investing more capital and building more products. Obviously they are going to hire more and fire more as some of the projects succeed and some fail ?
ChuckMcM 10y ago
That layoffs have increased should not surprise anyone at this point. Unlike the dot com explosion it seems painfully difficult as a regular employee to have divested some of your equity gains mid-bubble. That makes it more painful. However, every time there is a great deflating, it is because the market is tired and preparing to embrace something different. So far I've been through several of these, chips in the 80's dot coms in the late 90s, storage in the early 2000's, and now either web 2.0 or social (depending on how you score it). Three threads are competing for the next round, IoT, Machine Learning, and Bioinformatics. CRISPR derived technologies could be in there too but I see a lot of regulatory hurdles headed that way which will be hard to dodge. The thing to keep in mind though if you are one of the folks getting laid off, it isn't you its them. Seriously. Layoffs happen when the world shifts and your company didn't shift with it. That said, it still sucks to suddenly be out of a job and the temptation will be to grab at the first thing that offers you something. My advice to you is to be thoughtful. Think through what you want to do, what the world is going through, and how you want to look back at your role on that. Then head for the area that best meets those needs.
- engizeer 10y ago
  Would it make more sense financially, during this time to join a larger company? How long do you think before we start seeing regular IPOs of tech companies?
  - mhewett 10y ago
    As an older guy who has been through a number of these economic cycles, my feeling is that this will be a mild recession. Nothing like 2000 or 2008. (I'm not always right about the economy but I did correctly take my money out of the stock market on Thanksgiving weekend 2007.) Joining a THRIVING large company right now is a good idea. Google, Apple, Dell. Not HP or Yahoo. Some of the large consulting companies are also in good shape although from my experience they don't know what to do with good software engineers. Also good would be auto high-tech, like BMW or Mercedes Research. That field is in a growth curve that will do just fine during the recession.
BadassFractal 10y ago
I wouldn't worry about it too much, we have enough unquenchable thirst for filling positions here in the Bay that all of these folks will be quickly and gainfully employed again. One of our local strengths is that the cycle of life here is alive and well. We'll recycle like we always have, nothing goes to waste.
steven2012 10y ago
Most of the companies came from older tech companies like Yahoo, Intel, etc which had slow growth anyway so they probably aren't responsible for the vast increase of jobs over the last 5 years. I'm curious what the layoff situation is like for start-ups though since they don't need to report for the WARN act.
- bagels 10y ago
  WARN act applies to companies of 100 or more employees, startup or not.
tmuir 10y ago
How many of the Santa Clara county layoffs were from Intel?
bunkydoo 10y ago
I don't understand why people feel the need to saturate the bay area to compete for generally sub-par living conditions and only slightly above average pay. Everytime I ask someone why they are living and working there - they answer something along the lines of "to get rich and move out of here" this type of mentality is why the bay is the suicide capital of the world, unfortunately.
- thrownaway2424 10y ago
  Say what? The counties of the Bay Area are all well below the national average suicide rate (age adjusted, per capita CDC data). Explore for yourself at [1]. How did you arrive at this odd belief? 1: https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/cdcMapFramework/mapModuleInterface.jsp https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/cdcMapFramework/mapModuleInterf...
eruditely 10y ago
This sort of stuff is going to happen one way or the other, no industry is immune from this.
green_lunch 10y ago
If your company still isn't profitable and needs that next round of VC to survive, be very worried. I've seen the signs and gone through multiple layoffs over the years.
client4 10y ago
While it's sad to see people being laid off, on the bonus side there are jobs elsewhere in the country that could use great engineers. I know in Helena Montana there are a number of companies looking for engineers. It's a great fit for those who enjoy great beer and the outdoors.
- busterarm 10y ago
  Any willing to pay relocation? :D
vasu_man 10y ago
Keep Calm and Be in Infrastructure
NirDremer 10y ago
"Ah, I see one can use the "big multiple of a tiny number" trick for bad news too." Marc Andreessen https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/730990038939361280 https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/730990038939361280
stephenr 10y ago
I've only read 2 comments so far, and already my brain is melting from the ridiculous buzzwords.
known 10y ago
One more reason to support https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_around_the_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_around_the_world
sickbeard 10y ago
The mobile wave is ending and we are in the middle of the dip preceding the next big "thing". A lot of companies are betting on IoT but these are mostly service companies pushing their own proprietary stacks, which is why I think IoT is a dead-end because there is either no demand for the hardware or the hardware is at a price point that makes no financial sense.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  I think joelonsoftware predicted a lot of the IoT failures a decade ago with this piece: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000037.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000037.html There are lots of companies that seem to be looking entirely at how IoT can help them, without actually considering whether their customers benefit. There was a group at CES offering an IoT propane tank valve. It gathers user data, great, but who the hell wants to sink $50 into a smart valve for their grill? An awful lot of the these companies are offering tiny value propositions to users, and expecting that they'll pay for the chance to give up their data. The "smart grid" is a wonderful dream, but when no two pieces integrate you're just selling some shitty wifi monitors.
repler 10y ago
Easiest way to increase profits is to cut some staff. Payroll is a huge expense for just about every company out there.
grimmdude 10y ago
What's unclear to me is if these are all 'tech positions' or just positions at tech companies.
- elliotec 10y ago
  That is a very good point. At my previous company, they had some struggles and laid off a bunch of marketing and random business people, but every single developer kept their job.
motolouda 10y ago
it's mostly Yahoo at this point, which is no surprise there. We've (I've) also seen bubbles burst a couple times in this industry, and it'll do it again. I wonder how long it will take before we figure out not to throw money at bad ideas, overhire, and value companies at much more than they're actually worth. Eh, probably never. Oh well, viva la recession!
lordxenu 10y ago
A lot of these comments have stated the surface level of what is happening. That is, these companies have failed based on bad business tactics/marketshare, over-valuation, etc... And that the employees being laid off are just the tech-bubble fallout, but will be okay 'because jobs are aplenty' or that they'll just have to reapply themselves in some other job sector. However, what we don't see is the terms of the layoff that the employees are forced into. Generally, employees don't have a say in what they get in their layoff package, and many times it is not a fair amount in comparison to the work they do and in comparison to what management is getting. In addition, employees generally have to sign a legal document that prevents them from defaming the work practices/management/etc of the company. Either they sign and get their package, or they get nothing at all. I'm basing this on accounts from personal friends who have worked in startups, and although I'm speaking from an anecdotal point of view, I don't see what other data points we can draw from given that no one is allowed to speak out legally. The bottom line is, we will always be screwed over since we lack basic worker protections. We can talk about bad management and how that can be solved, but ultimately I think each and every one of us need to collectively force a set of protections for workers. Either through law or by forming a strong collective. Until then, this cycle will continue.

494 points by akg_67 10y ago

Since I'm old and I went through the .com crash (I didn't get to participate in the boom) I hope my input is valid. This feels like more of a correction than a disaster. The job market has been super easy and mediocre workers have been commanding excessive salaries because of various socio-economic forces (high valuations and cost of living). At some point there had to be a cull of bad startups and workers. It's unfortunate for the individuals and companies involved but I think in a couple years we will be through this and it won't have been so bad.

pcurve 10y ago
I wish you are right, but I have a feeling this is beginning of more things to come. These things always pan out over much longer period than people predict. Unemployment rate is at multi year low.
- dismal2 10y ago
  so is participation rate
zeemonkee3 10y ago
The problem is that these crashes hurt both good and bad workers. Every week you see the nth article posted here on how hiring is broken, from HR filtering to recruiters to interviewing. So how do good developers survive, if their skills and experience are essentially worthless in an opaque hiring process? One common answer is "networking" but that's a non-developer skill- a mediocre developer could be better at networking (maybe correlated - he's in the bar handing out business cards rather than working on his latest side project). A lot of good people get hurt in a downturn and either leave the industry or end up in low-paying, mediocre jobs just to hang on.
- eva1984 10y ago
  It is not a problem. It will HAVE to happen at some point. Maybe the downturn of the market will drive companies to be pragmatic when choosing candidate, instead of trying to humiliate them with whiteboard teasers. Nevertheless, I don't think there is that much you and I can do about this, not the market, nor the hiring processes. What stays unchanged is when looking for a job, don't put eggs in one bucket.
  - zeemonkee3 10y ago
    If companies aren't pragmatic now, when supposedly demand outstrips supply, why would they change when conditions are reversed? I suspect they'd just double down and network will become even more important (you'll have more unemployed friends needing a hand).
    - eva1984 10y ago
      Yeah, network will be more important. I think they will stop looking at resumes that are not from internal referrals. And probably still some boring whiteboarding questions after that. But my hypothesis is, they would really try to hire someone with experience, because they won't spend time training him/her, just like what happens in the IC industry.
- reality_hacker 10y ago
  If worker is good, and have enough cognitive power to learn all that algorithms and solve problems, he can land in Google/FB and enjoy life and safety.

CryoLogic 10y ago

In Seattle almost no companies have been hiring entry level devs for several months. Fortune 500 not excluded. Could it be lay-offs from CA migrating down to WA?

iaw 10y ago
It's hard to disentangle if those are due to CA lay-offs or if there are less CA lay-offs because of a migration due to COLA increases (my pet theory).
vmarsy 10y ago
source? Most entry level devs come by wave after graduation from College (+ post-graduation vacation). The number of those new college hires does not seem to have slow down, but only HR departments at those companies would know the exact trend.
RyJones 10y ago
Qualcomm just closed the Seattle and Bellevue offices over the last year, and Intel is doing the same.
rconti 10y ago
Typically it would be migrating up to WA (geographically north). Are you saying the layoff trend is migrating north? Or actual people who were laid-off are migrating north? Or something else? It wouldn't make sense for laid off workers to migrate north if there's less hiring there, but then, you're talking entry-level. I'm just not sure what's being asked here.
myth17 10y ago
Microsoft continues to hire in WA.
thesimpsons1022 10y ago
i have half a dozen friends who are graduating next month and going to Microsoft in Redmond. Many others going to Amazon. So not sure where you came up with this.
10y ago

dexterdog 10y ago

Krikey - Ghostery blocked 21 instances of a detected video player network on that page. What an overloaded mess.

badloginagain 10y ago
Start reading article, then all text pops below the fold as ads load, then the page hangs as more shit gets loaded. If I were on Firefox I'd use the Pocket Reader mode, which strips all the extraneous bs.
danso 10y ago
I have to give them props...I've been using AdBlock on Chrome, which seems to do just fine on major sites...this is the first time in a long while that I've visited a news site and seen a pop-up autoplay video ad.
- mevile 10y ago
  It's tough times for local news.
  - dexterdog 10y ago
    ...And interesting times for ad blockers.

20years 10y ago

Can any of you from the Bay Area comment on if you have found it harder to find jobs lately? Are recruiters reaching out less than they did last year? I would be interested in hearing from some of you that have been laid off. Have you found another job in the Bay Area or did you have to leave?

ISV_Damocles 10y ago
I haven't really seen a letup in recruiters emailing me. Not one of the ones who was laid off, though.
stale2002 10y ago
I'm a couple years into the industry, and I'm still getting recruitment emails every day. But from what I hear from my friends, new college graduates, with no experience are having a tougher time getting jobs than how it used to be 2 years ago.
- mevile 10y ago
  It's a mistake to equate recruitment emails with ability to get a job. There are many reasons for recruiters to send you emails that have very little to do with your likelihood of being hired. Talented engineers will always be difficult to find, though the challenge may change from trying to find one that's not employed to finding the best among those that need a job. Recruiters are just casting a wide net for a few seats. Some independent recruiters, given the payout involved, cast that net very wide (and generally contribute to low quality candidates stuffing up your hiring manager's inbox). Had you said you recently got a lot of offers, that would be a totally different story.
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    Frequency matters far less than quality. Poor-quality VOIP line out of Noida: bottom-feeder. Local call, especially SF, PA, SJ, or similar, far better. Independents over firms, in my experience.
  - 10y ago

thedevil 10y ago

If I'm understanding the article, there was a net increase of 2400 jobs in the quarter. That's still pretty good. (Edit: it may seem gloomy by comparing to 2015, which seemed like an extremely good year). I googled a little because I was curious and found this: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends/percapita http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends/percapita San Jose #1, that looks good. Although San Francisco....

r00fus 10y ago
Are these postings or actual jobs filled?
- thedevil 10y ago
  I assumed postings but not sure. It's just the most interesting google result I got looking around on this. Edit: I meant that my indeed link was about postings. My assumption was that the 2400 figure (800/month) from the article was net jobs added, not postings.
  - esmi 10y ago
    "Vitner's analysis of state employment data showed that Bay Area tech firms added only 800 jobs a month in the first quarter of 2016" I was going to post the same thing as your parent post but I think the source is state data so probably not postings. Maybe that what the numbers in the DE9C are for...

tyre 10y ago

This is a necessary, if painful, lesson. I remember the layoffs right before leaving LivingSocial in 2012. A raw, human catastrophe. Watching friends pack up their things, who had been sold on the culture and vision of what the company could be, was an eye opening experience. This is why you focus on business fundamentals. Not because it is sexy, not because you can tell ProductHunt about your run rate, and not because you want impress investors. Because if you fuck up, everyone who depends on you gets fucked. A few words of advice: - Before you raise money, ask yourself if that valuation is realistic or aspirational. If it is aspirational, know that you have to reach that valuation without raising another cent, just to break even. Ask yourself if you are default dead or alive. - Before you start a company, ask if it is solving a problem for customers or your desire "to be an entrepreneur." - Before you hire anyone, ask if their position is a need to have or a nice have. Like customers, few businesses can afford "nice to haves" - There is always capital available for businesses with strong fundamentals who are solving real needs. Layoffs are like throwing up from drinking. Not fun and nearly always your (the founders/managers') fault. - Pace yourself. - Build a company you're proud of. - Build something that people need. - Growth is great for slide decks, but employees can't use it to pay rent. Don't chase hypergrowth as an end in itself. Markets can stay irrational far longer than you can stay solvent, but they can also snap back to reality before you can wake-up.

DarkTree 10y ago
Right now it seems like there are two reasons for creating a company. One is for making a profitable business that creates wealth for the people invested. Two is for creating a product or service that customers need or want. These two revolve around servicing those invested, or the consumers of the product/service, or both. It's surprising to me that no one starts a company solely for creating an amazing place to work. A great workplace and work would be the product/service, and the employees the consumers of the product/service. Sure, you would have to have paying customers to fuel it, but that could always be secondary in some sense. Right now it seems like the workplace is secondary, so why not swap it? I'm sure there are a nice subset of people who would take less (even half) of their current salary just to work in a place that revolves around them and their experience working.. which is the majority of most of our days. Viable? Probably not, but it's interesting to think about and trying to imagine what that place would look like for you personally.

danso 10y ago

FYI if you're interested in the raw data from which this story is ostensibly based in part, I've dumped it into this Github repo: https://github.com/datahoarder/ca-warn https://github.com/datahoarder/ca-warn

JoshTriplett 10y ago

For anyone completely unable to view the article because it hangs trying to load: if you have HTTPS Everywhere installed, try disabling the "MNGInteractive" rule.

imron 10y ago

Those comments.... wow.

kin 10y ago
Right? I feel like there's no way to get a good legitimate discussion on any article w/o a community like HN or reddit that cares about their arbitrary karma system.

icdxpresso 10y ago

How worried should an entry level developer who has been working only 6 months at his current company be? Due to an extremely high cost of living, paying all my bills and student loans and such, I have very little money actually saved up. If I lost my job I'd have to pack my bags and move out of Silicon Valley ASAP. And I really haven't accomplished that much at work during the past 6 months because I joined during holiday season and pretty much spent like 3 months training. I'd be really fucked if I got laid off now.

cylinder 10y ago
Are the company's customers other startups or enterprise? How much are they burning vs what they've raised? Are they a consumer startup? Do they make money at all? Basically, imagine your company cannot raise another round of VC again. Will it survive? Also, are your loans federal? You should put them on Income Based Repayment if you can. It's more important to save up a cushion before paying student loans that have flexible options like that.
saluki 10y ago
Probably depends how your company is doing. Don't worry about it too much it's mostly out of your control. But don't ask about possible layoffs how the company is doing just keep a positive attitude. You can . . . focus at your job, learn what you can, take initiative, get things done, be a positive force on your team. Save what you can, trim expenses, eating out, etc. Getting laid off always sucks do what you can to be ready just in case. Polish up your resume and be ready to use it if needed. I expect you would get some severance to give you some time to bridge to a new job. Good luck.
dredmorbius 10y ago
Be concerned. Have a plan. Consider attacking your living expenses. Request a rent reduction from your landlord -- you're a known entity, and they're more likely to offer this if you ask than if you don't, and them more they've heard that request. Look at roommate situations. Don't make any big purchases. Do put away an emergency stash. One of the big problems the Bay Area faces right now is one that attacks its ongoing attractiveness as a tech hub: technical labour is losing its flexibility. Employment is contracting, slightly, but housing is so expensive that virtually nobody has any personal runtime if the paychecks stop. A considerable exodus from the area may make it less attractive in future. It's one thing to take a new job down the street, or even switch between San Jose and SF or SF and Oakland. It's another to shuttle back and forth, with household wares, from Cleveland to Palo Alto, every 6-18 months. It's also an opportunity for a new low-cost hub to establish itself. One with what makes SV tick, but doesn't have its problems. Unfortunately, most of the candidate destinations lack the legal environment, particularly labour law, which made SV so attractive. It's possible locations outside the US might emerge, though I'm not sure where that might be either. I'm not calling the end of SV, that would be idiotic (until its not, at which point it will be inspired). But the hub is entering a period of distinct vulnerability.

m1117 10y ago

We're actively hiring. If you were one of that let go people, please reach out to https://sendsonar.com https://sendsonar.com

tariqali34 10y ago
We're actively hiring too. If you need a job, just visit our website at http://example.com http://example.com. No need to explain how much we'll pay you per year, how long the interview process is, how likely it is that we'll hire you after the interview, how well we treat work-life balance, whether our company is dependent on venture capital, whether our company is even remotely close to generating profits...or even what the company actually does. We assume that you're desperate...ahem...brave enough for a job that'll you click on our hyperlink and reach out to us.

justinsingh 10y ago

My dad got laid off from the Fremont Western Digital location just the other day ago. He saw it coming as they were warned layoffs would keep coming (WD has been laying off workers since the middle of last year, I think). So luckily we moved to a nearby city with substantially lower housing prices than in San Jose, where we were spending lots more than we could justify on housing. If we had stayed in San Jose, we would be in some real big financial troubles- pretty much game over. But where we live now (which is actually in a house of the same size, just significantly cheaper) we are living more comfortably and happier without the stress of living in such an expensive city. Anyone living in an expensive city with a layoff seeming imminent should really be thinking on the long term about where it's best for their family to live. Going day to day wondering if you'll be able to keep your house is not a healthy way to live.

Kinnard 10y ago
Is your dad an engineer?
- justinsingh 10y ago
  Data center/Network engineer
  - Kinnard 10y ago
    That's interesting. I feel a lot of people are arguing that engineers will largely be safe and will fare any trouble better anyway being in a higher income percentile. I was also under the impression that South Bay had at least a somewhat reasonable real estate market. I've never been down there. Network engineering seems more specialized/technical than web dev too. Best of luck.
    - chiph 10y ago
      If the firm is predominately staffed with engineers (either raw headcount, or by salary percentage), then there's no buffer against being laid off.

YZF 10y ago

"Today the Bay Area's total employment of 3,353,600 as of the end of March still reflects job growth, with 102,600 workers added from March 2015 through March 2016." The sky is not quite falling yet. There are many parts of the economy that are stalling and the impact on that is felt in companies that sell products into those markets. How things will develop is anyone's guess. I feel "Tech" will keep growing though some areas that perhaps were historically considered "Tech" might shrink. If you look at all the great things we can do with technology I think a lot of stuff is still ahead of us. It's just the natural way that things don't always go smoothly.

lsiebert 10y ago

It might be interesting to consider what layoffs cost companies in terms of confidence and morale.

dmode 10y ago

This article is very confusing to me. If we are concluding that startups are laying off due to funding squeeze, how is that San Francisco actually saw a decrease in lay offs ? SF is where most of the startups are based. Also, it says that layoffs totaled roughly 3000 in 4 months. Which comes down to 750 a month. Compare this to what the article said later that 32,000 jobs were lost per month during the recession. Finally, I couldn't figure how many jobs were added in this period, to get a context of the layoff percentage. Seems a little alarmist

ajmurmann 10y ago
I feel similarly. However, the article points out reporting differences for differently large companies and layoffs. That might factor in heavily. Would be nice though of the article had explicitly addressed that.

chrisper 10y ago

So, I am graduating next year and I have no internship experience (wasn't able to get one for this summer for whatever reasons). How doomed am I? Hopefully, by the time I am done, there is still at least one job left :( Although, I guess finding a job might be easier since I am willing to relocate etc.

mulcahey 10y ago
If you have some other stuff to show for yourself beyond a transcript you should be just fine. There are still TONS of places hiring that just aren't big sexy brands.
- chrisper 10y ago
  Cool, thanks!
ndesaulniers 10y ago
My internship experiences made me a more confident programmer. My advice is start working on a personal project that you can show you're knowledgeable and passionate about. Differentiate yourself from your peers. I really loved iTunes, but wanted to be able to stream my music wherever I was. I built an iTunes clone as a web app. Simple web design, CRUD app, but the fanciness was what I learned about codecs, transcoding, and streaming. https://github.com/nickdesaulniers/audiostream/blob/master/routes/index.js#L43-L66 https://github.com/nickdesaulniers/audiostream/blob/master/r... The folks who interviewed me at Mozilla loved it and hired me. My current boss at Google loved my technical blog.
Infinitesimus 10y ago
You're not doomed imo. If your aim was to work at the next $coolStartup in silicon Valley then I'd say you have a good reason to be worried. There are still plenty of businesses hiring developers all over the country (I know of a lot here in MA and keep getting recruiter emails). You can always get an internship after gradutation, or an entry level role as a developer, or even an entry level role as a non-dev but still in a technical role to give you some experience. Play your cards right, reach out to several companies and you'll like be fine

sjg007 10y ago

There's layoffs and there's going out of business.

tn13 10y ago

Let us not panic here. Unlike 10 years ago most tech companies are taking more risk, investing more capital and building more products. Obviously they are going to hire more and fire more as some of the projects succeed and some fail ?

ChuckMcM 10y ago

That layoffs have increased should not surprise anyone at this point. Unlike the dot com explosion it seems painfully difficult as a regular employee to have divested some of your equity gains mid-bubble. That makes it more painful. However, every time there is a great deflating, it is because the market is tired and preparing to embrace something different. So far I've been through several of these, chips in the 80's dot coms in the late 90s, storage in the early 2000's, and now either web 2.0 or social (depending on how you score it). Three threads are competing for the next round, IoT, Machine Learning, and Bioinformatics. CRISPR derived technologies could be in there too but I see a lot of regulatory hurdles headed that way which will be hard to dodge. The thing to keep in mind though if you are one of the folks getting laid off, it isn't you its them. Seriously. Layoffs happen when the world shifts and your company didn't shift with it. That said, it still sucks to suddenly be out of a job and the temptation will be to grab at the first thing that offers you something. My advice to you is to be thoughtful. Think through what you want to do, what the world is going through, and how you want to look back at your role on that. Then head for the area that best meets those needs.

engizeer 10y ago
Would it make more sense financially, during this time to join a larger company? How long do you think before we start seeing regular IPOs of tech companies?
- mhewett 10y ago
  As an older guy who has been through a number of these economic cycles, my feeling is that this will be a mild recession. Nothing like 2000 or 2008. (I'm not always right about the economy but I did correctly take my money out of the stock market on Thanksgiving weekend 2007.) Joining a THRIVING large company right now is a good idea. Google, Apple, Dell. Not HP or Yahoo. Some of the large consulting companies are also in good shape although from my experience they don't know what to do with good software engineers. Also good would be auto high-tech, like BMW or Mercedes Research. That field is in a growth curve that will do just fine during the recession.

BadassFractal 10y ago

I wouldn't worry about it too much, we have enough unquenchable thirst for filling positions here in the Bay that all of these folks will be quickly and gainfully employed again. One of our local strengths is that the cycle of life here is alive and well. We'll recycle like we always have, nothing goes to waste.

steven2012 10y ago

Most of the companies came from older tech companies like Yahoo, Intel, etc which had slow growth anyway so they probably aren't responsible for the vast increase of jobs over the last 5 years. I'm curious what the layoff situation is like for start-ups though since they don't need to report for the WARN act.

bagels 10y ago
WARN act applies to companies of 100 or more employees, startup or not.

tmuir 10y ago

How many of the Santa Clara county layoffs were from Intel?

bunkydoo 10y ago

I don't understand why people feel the need to saturate the bay area to compete for generally sub-par living conditions and only slightly above average pay. Everytime I ask someone why they are living and working there - they answer something along the lines of "to get rich and move out of here" this type of mentality is why the bay is the suicide capital of the world, unfortunately.

thrownaway2424 10y ago
Say what? The counties of the Bay Area are all well below the national average suicide rate (age adjusted, per capita CDC data). Explore for yourself at [1]. How did you arrive at this odd belief? 1: https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/cdcMapFramework/mapModuleInterface.jsp https://wisqars.cdc.gov:8443/cdcMapFramework/mapModuleInterf...

eruditely 10y ago

This sort of stuff is going to happen one way or the other, no industry is immune from this.

green_lunch 10y ago

If your company still isn't profitable and needs that next round of VC to survive, be very worried. I've seen the signs and gone through multiple layoffs over the years.

client4 10y ago

While it's sad to see people being laid off, on the bonus side there are jobs elsewhere in the country that could use great engineers. I know in Helena Montana there are a number of companies looking for engineers. It's a great fit for those who enjoy great beer and the outdoors.

busterarm 10y ago
Any willing to pay relocation? :D

vasu_man 10y ago

Keep Calm and Be in Infrastructure

NirDremer 10y ago

"Ah, I see one can use the "big multiple of a tiny number" trick for bad news too." Marc Andreessen https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/730990038939361280 https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/730990038939361280

stephenr 10y ago

I've only read 2 comments so far, and already my brain is melting from the ridiculous buzzwords.

known 10y ago

One more reason to support https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_around_the_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_around_the_world

sickbeard 10y ago

The mobile wave is ending and we are in the middle of the dip preceding the next big "thing". A lot of companies are betting on IoT but these are mostly service companies pushing their own proprietary stacks, which is why I think IoT is a dead-end because there is either no demand for the hardware or the hardware is at a price point that makes no financial sense.

Bartweiss 10y ago
I think joelonsoftware predicted a lot of the IoT failures a decade ago with this piece: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000037.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000037.html There are lots of companies that seem to be looking entirely at how IoT can help them, without actually considering whether their customers benefit. There was a group at CES offering an IoT propane tank valve. It gathers user data, great, but who the hell wants to sink $50 into a smart valve for their grill? An awful lot of the these companies are offering tiny value propositions to users, and expecting that they'll pay for the chance to give up their data. The "smart grid" is a wonderful dream, but when no two pieces integrate you're just selling some shitty wifi monitors.

repler 10y ago

Easiest way to increase profits is to cut some staff. Payroll is a huge expense for just about every company out there.

grimmdude 10y ago

What's unclear to me is if these are all 'tech positions' or just positions at tech companies.

elliotec 10y ago
That is a very good point. At my previous company, they had some struggles and laid off a bunch of marketing and random business people, but every single developer kept their job.

motolouda 10y ago

it's mostly Yahoo at this point, which is no surprise there. We've (I've) also seen bubbles burst a couple times in this industry, and it'll do it again. I wonder how long it will take before we figure out not to throw money at bad ideas, overhire, and value companies at much more than they're actually worth. Eh, probably never. Oh well, viva la recession!

lordxenu 10y ago

A lot of these comments have stated the surface level of what is happening. That is, these companies have failed based on bad business tactics/marketshare, over-valuation, etc... And that the employees being laid off are just the tech-bubble fallout, but will be okay 'because jobs are aplenty' or that they'll just have to reapply themselves in some other job sector. However, what we don't see is the terms of the layoff that the employees are forced into. Generally, employees don't have a say in what they get in their layoff package, and many times it is not a fair amount in comparison to the work they do and in comparison to what management is getting. In addition, employees generally have to sign a legal document that prevents them from defaming the work practices/management/etc of the company. Either they sign and get their package, or they get nothing at all. I'm basing this on accounts from personal friends who have worked in startups, and although I'm speaking from an anecdotal point of view, I don't see what other data points we can draw from given that no one is allowed to speak out legally. The bottom line is, we will always be screwed over since we lack basic worker protections. We can talk about bad management and how that can be solved, but ultimately I think each and every one of us need to collectively force a set of protections for workers. Either through law or by forming a strong collective. Until then, this cycle will continue.