9 ms·

Joe’s Crab Shack Tried Getting Rid of Tips – It Didn’t Last Long

28 points by antr 10y ago

ryan_j_naughton 10y ago
> "Company research had found that 60 percent of the restaurants’ customers disliked the change in tipping, Mr. Merritt said. They wanted to inspire good service with their tips and they didn’t trust management to pass on the money to its employees, he said." Ugh, people are idiots! Paying an employee an actual wage will guarantee them income in a way that tipping does not. If an employee is hired at a particular hourly wage, we have labor laws to ensure they are receiving their pay. In contrast, tipping provides no guarantees and actually enables the abuses these same people fear. For example, legally a restaurant has to make a waiter whole if their tips+ low hourly wage does not get to actual minimum wage. Despite this requirement, many restaurants violate it BC tipping as the default puts the burden on the waiter to bother their boss when they didn't make enough. Imagine instead if when you checked out at Target, you paid the cashier directly because you didn't trust target to pay them?! The idea seems ludicrous but apply it to tipping industries and it somehow is normal. The real culprit is people feel comfortable with what they know and fear change.
- jghn 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure the number of servers who say "Oh, the previous table tipped low. I must have done something wrong" is many orders of magnitude lower than the number of servers who say "Oh, the previous table tipped low. Cheap bastards". As you say, I don't understand why people think that tipping actually helps w/ service. OTOH the masses still drag out that incorrect tale of To Insure Prompt Service
  - wccrawford 10y ago
    When my wife and I went to Japan, we received the best service we'd ever had in every single restaurant, from random burger joints to classy Shabu Shabu restaurants. (Classy for us, at least.) None of them accepted tips. They just did their jobs well. It was just proof for me that tips didn't have anything to do with good service, not in the long-run or the short-run. Of course, I tip still, because it's part of their wages and they deserve it. But I don't for a moment think that it actually teaches them to serve people better.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
  > The idea seems ludicrous but apply it to tipping industries and it somehow is normal. Wage theft is a thing tho.
- maerF0x0 10y ago
  I think this part of the sentence is key: "and they didn’t trust management to pass on the money to its employees, he said." Meaning, no tip restaurants usually have higher prices, but customers do not trust that the higher prices went to the staff. Management needs to make some statement of wages (high wages) to prove that the tips are sufficient. IMO distrust of management's greed is the real culprit
- jasonjei 10y ago
  It often reminds me of retail establishments that pay profit-shared wage vs. commission-based retail wage. I've actually had very earnest interactions with Apple retail employees, and they will recommend me products they personally like; Fry's Electronics employees will constantly try to sell, to the point of annoyance (the one guy even pressured me by saying he was short of electronics extended warranty sales quota by 1 sale, and that I would move the needle for him).
erikw 10y ago
I'd like to share some anecdotes from my experiences as a waiter. 1. The people who demand the most service ("This is too cold, take it back", "Bring me a different fork, this one has a spot on it", etc) tip significantly below average, and sometimes not at all. This pattern is present just about everywhere- I see it in IT all the time. 2. Groups, especially business meetings, are the highest tippers. Serving a table of 8 isn't significantly harder than serving a table of 2, yet groups usually still tip based on percentage. 3. People who use coupons are universally small tippers. I also suspect that folks with coupons are not likely to be return customers.
- jghn 10y ago
  #2 I find interesting. I thought that the reason for autograts on large parties is that they tend to tip lower overall? Although you do seem to be phrasing it in a money vs effort angle than just the money.
  - erikw 10y ago
    Yeah- the money per person is lower, but a lot of the effort of waiting is in managing tables- ie, the entire table usually pays a bill at the same time, and then the table needs to be cleared and prepped for the next customers.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    From my experiences on the eating side, I'm not surprised that business meetings tend to be large tippers. Everyone is (usually) having a good time on the company dime and the tip is other people's money anyway. The problem with a group of individuals--specifically where everyone is paying for themselves--is that some people often don't end up chipping in enough and after a couple rounds of "we're a bit short here" the waiter ends up eating the shortage. Even if it doesn't happen a lot, the effect on the waiter who makes 5% off the group of 25 they've been serving all night can be considerable.
    - jghn 10y ago
      Yeah, I was focusing on the group angle, not the business angle.
ythl 10y ago
Liberals are idealists, not realists. "Pay staff a living wage and abolish tips" is a great idea, but it doesn't work well in practice. Cue the liberals with their new line: "Pay the staff a living wage in addition to tips!"
- EliRivers 10y ago
  I think you'll find that conservatives want to abolish tips because conservatives think people shouldn't rely on charity. This political nonsense can be twisted any way anyone likes.
- 6nf 10y ago
  It works just fine in other countries
  - ythl 10y ago
    The logic here being "If it works fine in X country, it should therefore work well in Y country?"
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      ...and that logic would be right. Unless what you're saying is, "It won't work here because we'd prefer underpaying food staff because we can get away with it." But that's not what you're saying, right? Surely it can't be.
    - yardie 10y ago
      That is globalization in a nutshell.
- EliRivers 10y ago
  "Pay staff a living wage and abolish tips" is a great idea, but it doesn't work well in practice. I work a job without tips and it works fine.
  - ythl 10y ago
EliRivers 10y ago
Sad news. "They wanted to inspire good service with their tips". It's nice that they want something. I want a pony. Neither of these things happen.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  "They wanted to inspire good service with their tips" Friends of mine who have been wait staff have unanimously concluded that tips appear random to them. There's no pattern of behavior they can interpret from patrons or which patrons want, other than simple competence.
  - wccrawford 10y ago
    I'm sure it appears that way, because there's no way to know what someone would have tipped if you'd done better. If someone does poorly, I give them a baseline tip. Probably 10%, but still 15% if I'm in a good mood anyhow. If they do well, they'll get 20%, up to 30% for really, really good service. But the guy next to me might go from 0% to 10% for awful to great service. There's just no way to know what a tip means.
- techthroway443 10y ago
  This comment doesn't make sense to me. Neither of these things happen. You are saying tips aren't based on quality of the service?
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    > That's actually exactly what happens if you are working to get a better tip - percent based on your service. Can you provide a citation? Because all data points to tipping in no way being connected to the service you provide. The best way to receive a tip (based on research)? Be female. Be blonde. Have large breasts. So lets dispense with this nonsense that tipping incentivizes service workers. Its a thinly veiled, widespread (successful) attempt at wage theft. http://www.tippingresearch.com/most_recent_tipping_papers.html http://www.tippingresearch.com/most_recent_tipping_papers.ht... http://freakonomics.com/podcast/should-tipping-be-banned-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/should-tipping-be-banned-a-n... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/17/abolish-tipping_n_5991796.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/17/abolish-tipping_n_5...
ghaff 10y ago
It makes sense that it seems to work better in higher-end restaurants. People aren't choosing those restaurants based on price (within reason). Mainstream chains are probably subject to a lot more quick glances at a menu by people who then decide the food there is too pricey and move on. It's also hard to change a system that people are used to.
- continuations 10y ago
  On the other hand fast food restaurants are about as low-end as you can get. Yet they have no problem getting rid of tips there.
  - ythl 10y ago
    Last time I checked, the McDonald's employees didn't refill my soda cup when it was empty or bring me more fries when I ran out.
    - continuations 10y ago
      McDonald's employees prepare your food. What's so special about refilling your soda that it requires tipping while preparing your food can be done without tipping?
      - highstep 10y ago
        Yes! The fact that the kitchen staff often don't get tipped is outrageous.
        miah_ 10y ago
        At some restaurants, a percentage of servers tips are split with back end staff like cooks, bar backs, dish washers.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    Fast-food restaurants don't have servers. The (yes, weirdly specific) restaurant tipping expectations in the US (and, generally, where tipping is the custom) revolve specifically around tipping the person who brings you your food at your table.
nkrisc 10y ago
What on Earth is wrong with my countrymen? Tipping should be done away with and reserved only for truly excellent service.
- DougWebb 10y ago
  Both of those things can't happen at the same time. That's how we ended up with servers wages getting cut and forced to depend on tips. If tipping is acceptable at all, it won't stay reserved for only truly excellent service. It'll become expected for good service, then adequate service, then any service at all.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    That's not necessarily true. I won't tip the concierge at a hotel for telling me how to get to a nearby restaurant (OK, that's an anachronistic example :-)) but I probably would tip for scoring me some difficult ticket or reservation.
- anotherevan 10y ago
  That's pretty much how it works in Australia.
- nikdaheratik 10y ago
  Yeah, it's weird how quickly I've forgotten about tipping once I moved to Australia. It's more of a hassle on the customer than anything, but it's cultural I suppose.
anotherevan 10y ago
Living in a country where tipping is not a big part of the culture, I must admit I've always found it one of the stranger customs in the USA. I found the series of articles, "Observations From A Tipless Restaurant" was a really interesting analysis. http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-restaurant-part-1-overview/ http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-...
- oarsinsync 10y ago
  > 3) The Linkery’s most transgressive act was not in implementing a service charge. Our most transgressive act was refusing to allow our guests to pay our servers anything more beyond the service charge — this is where the angry came out. A certain small number of very vocal men (and it was always men who were vocal about it) resented that we were not letting them try to exercise additional control over our team members. This was true even though compelling research has shown that servers do not adjust quality of service as a result of tips; instead the idea that the restaurant was not offering our servers up as objects of control, was heresy. For these people, the primary service they wanted from the restaurant was the opportunity to pay for favors from the server — much like the patron at a strip club pays the club for the opportunity to dangle bills in front a dancer for individual attention. The idea that a restaurant could legitimately want to be in a different business than a strip club, was not an idea these guests could countenance. Thus, I was ever subject to witty takedowns like you are a douche, along with other well-thought-out gems. That's a very interesting take. Good article, thanks for sharing!
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    This is the real reason I suspect. I worked in restaurants for 8 years as a cook. One place I worked had an admittedly attractive 19 year old waitress on staff. Lines formed in front of her to give her a tip. All these 40+ year old drunks (it was a dive bar) lined up to speak with her for a few moments than hand her a few dollars. She didn't even provide them with anything, they just seemed to revel in the idea that they get to hand this woman a few dollars. Very odd.
  - gunshigh 10y ago
jasonjei 10y ago
I think tipping is so culturally engrained in America that the odds of us completely switching to a gratuity-included system is about the same as switching to driving on the left side of the road. Americans will always lament tipping, but Americans will always view tipping as leverage over the restaurant. Americans want to have their cake and eat it too (no pun intended). I certainly want to see the practice end--I'm constantly reminded by Larry David's awkward tipping interactions in Curb Your Enthusiasm. Ending tipping will require a lot of mindshare among restaurants for it to work. For the most part, these restaurants are special snowflakes, and I don't think the practice will become mainstream anytime soon.
hermannj314 10y ago
In a business context, I've never understood the ethics of tipping. It has a bias for youth and feminine gender and thus I must not use qualitative inputs when determining my tips without fear of a subconscious bias to cause me to improperly spend my companies money in a way that may be unethical or possibly illegal (as both age and gender discrimination are real and I'd like to avoid them). For this reason, I tip 10% on business trips always when it is requested and regardless of service quality. Anything else just seems too close to the definition of graft or bribery for me to feel comfortable.
exclusiv 10y ago
Tipping is the brilliance of the restaurant industry. Keeps overhead low and allows them to churn through "employees" with promises of tips. Some say restaurants can't survive with more costs. Baloney. If you can't pay a decent wage you don't deserve to exist. The only people that care about prices going up are the no tippers because the tippers are subsidizing salaries. The tippers wouldn't notice prices going up much if any.
- lwhalen 10y ago
  This is similar to the musician's plight of rarely being able to guarantee a 'flat rate' for their performance services - both originals, covers, or a mix of the two.
  - aethos 10y ago
    Could you explain this a bit further?
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
  It also lets the restaurant advertise a lower cost of goods to the customer upfront to get them in the seat and the true cost isn't presented until you're done. And that might be why the non-tipping restaurants noticed a drop in revenue. If you look at the menus side-by-side, especially if you are familiar with the place and what things cost there, the non-tipping one will appear to be much more expensive.
lightlyused 10y ago
I ate there several weeks ago, and asked one of the wait staff about this. Person said they were making less money. Glad to see this decision gone. BTW, service was still very good.
humbleMouse 10y ago
I was a fine dining server for a couple years. One thing that I saw work well at another fine dining restaurant was tip-pooling among employees. This way tipping stays but the waitstaff make a more stable wage - which cuts down on things like fighting for tables/sections and leaves mental space for employees to focus on customer service.
wrp 10y ago
When I was little, my parents told me to always tip 10%. When I grew up, my peers told me that 15% was the right amount. These days, the servers tell me that anything less than 20% is an insult. Here is a piece from a server arguing for this steady rise. I don't agree, but there it is. http://dpo.st/1Tb3rlN http://dpo.st/1Tb3rlN
wrp 10y ago
I'm an American, but have lived in many countries, often where tipping is not the norm. In general, my experiences with service personnel have been vastly more pleasant in non-tipping countries. I feel that when people have to angle for a tip, it poisons the interaction. It's irritating for the customer and demeaning for the worker. I even avoid going to restaurants when back in the USA because I expect it to be much less pleasant than I'm accustomed to in Asia.

28 points by antr 10y ago

> "Company research had found that 60 percent of the restaurants’ customers disliked the change in tipping, Mr. Merritt said. They wanted to inspire good service with their tips and they didn’t trust management to pass on the money to its employees, he said." Ugh, people are idiots! Paying an employee an actual wage will guarantee them income in a way that tipping does not. If an employee is hired at a particular hourly wage, we have labor laws to ensure they are receiving their pay. In contrast, tipping provides no guarantees and actually enables the abuses these same people fear. For example, legally a restaurant has to make a waiter whole if their tips+ low hourly wage does not get to actual minimum wage. Despite this requirement, many restaurants violate it BC tipping as the default puts the burden on the waiter to bother their boss when they didn't make enough. Imagine instead if when you checked out at Target, you paid the cashier directly because you didn't trust target to pay them?! The idea seems ludicrous but apply it to tipping industries and it somehow is normal. The real culprit is people feel comfortable with what they know and fear change.

jghn 10y ago
I'm pretty sure the number of servers who say "Oh, the previous table tipped low. I must have done something wrong" is many orders of magnitude lower than the number of servers who say "Oh, the previous table tipped low. Cheap bastards". As you say, I don't understand why people think that tipping actually helps w/ service. OTOH the masses still drag out that incorrect tale of To Insure Prompt Service
- wccrawford 10y ago
  When my wife and I went to Japan, we received the best service we'd ever had in every single restaurant, from random burger joints to classy Shabu Shabu restaurants. (Classy for us, at least.) None of them accepted tips. They just did their jobs well. It was just proof for me that tips didn't have anything to do with good service, not in the long-run or the short-run. Of course, I tip still, because it's part of their wages and they deserve it. But I don't for a moment think that it actually teaches them to serve people better.
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
> The idea seems ludicrous but apply it to tipping industries and it somehow is normal. Wage theft is a thing tho.
maerF0x0 10y ago
I think this part of the sentence is key: "and they didn’t trust management to pass on the money to its employees, he said." Meaning, no tip restaurants usually have higher prices, but customers do not trust that the higher prices went to the staff. Management needs to make some statement of wages (high wages) to prove that the tips are sufficient. IMO distrust of management's greed is the real culprit
jasonjei 10y ago
It often reminds me of retail establishments that pay profit-shared wage vs. commission-based retail wage. I've actually had very earnest interactions with Apple retail employees, and they will recommend me products they personally like; Fry's Electronics employees will constantly try to sell, to the point of annoyance (the one guy even pressured me by saying he was short of electronics extended warranty sales quota by 1 sale, and that I would move the needle for him).

erikw 10y ago

I'd like to share some anecdotes from my experiences as a waiter. 1. The people who demand the most service ("This is too cold, take it back", "Bring me a different fork, this one has a spot on it", etc) tip significantly below average, and sometimes not at all. This pattern is present just about everywhere- I see it in IT all the time. 2. Groups, especially business meetings, are the highest tippers. Serving a table of 8 isn't significantly harder than serving a table of 2, yet groups usually still tip based on percentage. 3. People who use coupons are universally small tippers. I also suspect that folks with coupons are not likely to be return customers.

jghn 10y ago
#2 I find interesting. I thought that the reason for autograts on large parties is that they tend to tip lower overall? Although you do seem to be phrasing it in a money vs effort angle than just the money.
- erikw 10y ago
  Yeah- the money per person is lower, but a lot of the effort of waiting is in managing tables- ie, the entire table usually pays a bill at the same time, and then the table needs to be cleared and prepped for the next customers.
- ghaff 10y ago
  From my experiences on the eating side, I'm not surprised that business meetings tend to be large tippers. Everyone is (usually) having a good time on the company dime and the tip is other people's money anyway. The problem with a group of individuals--specifically where everyone is paying for themselves--is that some people often don't end up chipping in enough and after a couple rounds of "we're a bit short here" the waiter ends up eating the shortage. Even if it doesn't happen a lot, the effect on the waiter who makes 5% off the group of 25 they've been serving all night can be considerable.
  - jghn 10y ago
    Yeah, I was focusing on the group angle, not the business angle.

ythl 10y ago

Liberals are idealists, not realists. "Pay staff a living wage and abolish tips" is a great idea, but it doesn't work well in practice. Cue the liberals with their new line: "Pay the staff a living wage in addition to tips!"

EliRivers 10y ago
I think you'll find that conservatives want to abolish tips because conservatives think people shouldn't rely on charity. This political nonsense can be twisted any way anyone likes.
6nf 10y ago
It works just fine in other countries
- ythl 10y ago
  The logic here being "If it works fine in X country, it should therefore work well in Y country?"
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    ...and that logic would be right. Unless what you're saying is, "It won't work here because we'd prefer underpaying food staff because we can get away with it." But that's not what you're saying, right? Surely it can't be.
  - yardie 10y ago
    That is globalization in a nutshell.
EliRivers 10y ago
"Pay staff a living wage and abolish tips" is a great idea, but it doesn't work well in practice. I work a job without tips and it works fine.
- ythl 10y ago

EliRivers 10y ago

Sad news. "They wanted to inspire good service with their tips". It's nice that they want something. I want a pony. Neither of these things happen.

stcredzero 10y ago
"They wanted to inspire good service with their tips" Friends of mine who have been wait staff have unanimously concluded that tips appear random to them. There's no pattern of behavior they can interpret from patrons or which patrons want, other than simple competence.
- wccrawford 10y ago
  I'm sure it appears that way, because there's no way to know what someone would have tipped if you'd done better. If someone does poorly, I give them a baseline tip. Probably 10%, but still 15% if I'm in a good mood anyhow. If they do well, they'll get 20%, up to 30% for really, really good service. But the guy next to me might go from 0% to 10% for awful to great service. There's just no way to know what a tip means.
techthroway443 10y ago
This comment doesn't make sense to me. Neither of these things happen. You are saying tips aren't based on quality of the service?
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  > That's actually exactly what happens if you are working to get a better tip - percent based on your service. Can you provide a citation? Because all data points to tipping in no way being connected to the service you provide. The best way to receive a tip (based on research)? Be female. Be blonde. Have large breasts. So lets dispense with this nonsense that tipping incentivizes service workers. Its a thinly veiled, widespread (successful) attempt at wage theft. http://www.tippingresearch.com/most_recent_tipping_papers.html http://www.tippingresearch.com/most_recent_tipping_papers.ht... http://freakonomics.com/podcast/should-tipping-be-banned-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/should-tipping-be-banned-a-n... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/17/abolish-tipping_n_5991796.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/17/abolish-tipping_n_5...

ghaff 10y ago

It makes sense that it seems to work better in higher-end restaurants. People aren't choosing those restaurants based on price (within reason). Mainstream chains are probably subject to a lot more quick glances at a menu by people who then decide the food there is too pricey and move on. It's also hard to change a system that people are used to.

continuations 10y ago
On the other hand fast food restaurants are about as low-end as you can get. Yet they have no problem getting rid of tips there.
- ythl 10y ago
  Last time I checked, the McDonald's employees didn't refill my soda cup when it was empty or bring me more fries when I ran out.
  - continuations 10y ago
    McDonald's employees prepare your food. What's so special about refilling your soda that it requires tipping while preparing your food can be done without tipping?
    - highstep 10y ago
      Yes! The fact that the kitchen staff often don't get tipped is outrageous.
      - miah_ 10y ago
        At some restaurants, a percentage of servers tips are split with back end staff like cooks, bar backs, dish washers.
- ghaff 10y ago
  Fast-food restaurants don't have servers. The (yes, weirdly specific) restaurant tipping expectations in the US (and, generally, where tipping is the custom) revolve specifically around tipping the person who brings you your food at your table.

nkrisc 10y ago

What on Earth is wrong with my countrymen? Tipping should be done away with and reserved only for truly excellent service.

DougWebb 10y ago
Both of those things can't happen at the same time. That's how we ended up with servers wages getting cut and forced to depend on tips. If tipping is acceptable at all, it won't stay reserved for only truly excellent service. It'll become expected for good service, then adequate service, then any service at all.
- ghaff 10y ago
  That's not necessarily true. I won't tip the concierge at a hotel for telling me how to get to a nearby restaurant (OK, that's an anachronistic example :-)) but I probably would tip for scoring me some difficult ticket or reservation.
anotherevan 10y ago
That's pretty much how it works in Australia.
nikdaheratik 10y ago
Yeah, it's weird how quickly I've forgotten about tipping once I moved to Australia. It's more of a hassle on the customer than anything, but it's cultural I suppose.

anotherevan 10y ago

Living in a country where tipping is not a big part of the culture, I must admit I've always found it one of the stranger customs in the USA. I found the series of articles, "Observations From A Tipless Restaurant" was a really interesting analysis. http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-restaurant-part-1-overview/ http://jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-...

oarsinsync 10y ago
> 3) The Linkery’s most transgressive act was not in implementing a service charge. Our most transgressive act was refusing to allow our guests to pay our servers anything more beyond the service charge — this is where the angry came out. A certain small number of very vocal men (and it was always men who were vocal about it) resented that we were not letting them try to exercise additional control over our team members. This was true even though compelling research has shown that servers do not adjust quality of service as a result of tips; instead the idea that the restaurant was not offering our servers up as objects of control, was heresy. For these people, the primary service they wanted from the restaurant was the opportunity to pay for favors from the server — much like the patron at a strip club pays the club for the opportunity to dangle bills in front a dancer for individual attention. The idea that a restaurant could legitimately want to be in a different business than a strip club, was not an idea these guests could countenance. Thus, I was ever subject to witty takedowns like you are a douche, along with other well-thought-out gems. That's a very interesting take. Good article, thanks for sharing!
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  This is the real reason I suspect. I worked in restaurants for 8 years as a cook. One place I worked had an admittedly attractive 19 year old waitress on staff. Lines formed in front of her to give her a tip. All these 40+ year old drunks (it was a dive bar) lined up to speak with her for a few moments than hand her a few dollars. She didn't even provide them with anything, they just seemed to revel in the idea that they get to hand this woman a few dollars. Very odd.
- gunshigh 10y ago

jasonjei 10y ago

I think tipping is so culturally engrained in America that the odds of us completely switching to a gratuity-included system is about the same as switching to driving on the left side of the road. Americans will always lament tipping, but Americans will always view tipping as leverage over the restaurant. Americans want to have their cake and eat it too (no pun intended). I certainly want to see the practice end--I'm constantly reminded by Larry David's awkward tipping interactions in Curb Your Enthusiasm. Ending tipping will require a lot of mindshare among restaurants for it to work. For the most part, these restaurants are special snowflakes, and I don't think the practice will become mainstream anytime soon.

hermannj314 10y ago

In a business context, I've never understood the ethics of tipping. It has a bias for youth and feminine gender and thus I must not use qualitative inputs when determining my tips without fear of a subconscious bias to cause me to improperly spend my companies money in a way that may be unethical or possibly illegal (as both age and gender discrimination are real and I'd like to avoid them). For this reason, I tip 10% on business trips always when it is requested and regardless of service quality. Anything else just seems too close to the definition of graft or bribery for me to feel comfortable.

exclusiv 10y ago

Tipping is the brilliance of the restaurant industry. Keeps overhead low and allows them to churn through "employees" with promises of tips. Some say restaurants can't survive with more costs. Baloney. If you can't pay a decent wage you don't deserve to exist. The only people that care about prices going up are the no tippers because the tippers are subsidizing salaries. The tippers wouldn't notice prices going up much if any.

lwhalen 10y ago
This is similar to the musician's plight of rarely being able to guarantee a 'flat rate' for their performance services - both originals, covers, or a mix of the two.
- aethos 10y ago
  Could you explain this a bit further?
eeeeeeeeeeeee 10y ago
It also lets the restaurant advertise a lower cost of goods to the customer upfront to get them in the seat and the true cost isn't presented until you're done. And that might be why the non-tipping restaurants noticed a drop in revenue. If you look at the menus side-by-side, especially if you are familiar with the place and what things cost there, the non-tipping one will appear to be much more expensive.

lightlyused 10y ago

I ate there several weeks ago, and asked one of the wait staff about this. Person said they were making less money. Glad to see this decision gone. BTW, service was still very good.

humbleMouse 10y ago

I was a fine dining server for a couple years. One thing that I saw work well at another fine dining restaurant was tip-pooling among employees. This way tipping stays but the waitstaff make a more stable wage - which cuts down on things like fighting for tables/sections and leaves mental space for employees to focus on customer service.

wrp 10y ago

When I was little, my parents told me to always tip 10%. When I grew up, my peers told me that 15% was the right amount. These days, the servers tell me that anything less than 20% is an insult. Here is a piece from a server arguing for this steady rise. I don't agree, but there it is. http://dpo.st/1Tb3rlN http://dpo.st/1Tb3rlN

wrp 10y ago

I'm an American, but have lived in many countries, often where tipping is not the norm. In general, my experiences with service personnel have been vastly more pleasant in non-tipping countries. I feel that when people have to angle for a tip, it poisons the interaction. It's irritating for the customer and demeaning for the worker. I even avoid going to restaurants when back in the USA because I expect it to be much less pleasant than I'm accustomed to in Asia.