11 ms·

Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

222 points by rvivek 10y ago

positivity89 10y ago
Wow, this was really inspiring. There are probably hundreds of girls/women like this, but they don't make headlines as often. This is awesome. The youngest sister may even grow up in a world where she doesn't have the same barriers as most women today. Could this be a sign of positive change?
- jakub_h 10y ago
  There are hundreds of boys like this as well. Geniuses get born everywhere, in different bodies, places, social strata etc. The fact that many of them get lesser chances to contribute to the world is an outrageous abuse of the most precious resource that the humanity has, regardless of why it happens.
  - yarou 10y ago
    And how do you propose we fix that, and more importantly, does your solution scale?
    - bbcbasic 10y ago
      If you can fix that, you can fix any human problem. It is like the P=NP of human problems.
- dr_toolittle 10y ago
  > The youngest sister may even grow up in a world where she doesn't have the same barriers as most women today. If there are fewer barriers, then you might see growth. Unfortunately this is difficult to tell. Some surveys show growth, others don't: S.O. survey respondents 5.8% women (2016) - http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016 http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016 S.O. survey respondents 5.8% women (2015) - http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2015 http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2015 Google: 17% women (2014) - http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/05/28/google-releases-employee-diversity-figures/9697049/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/05/28/google-release... Facebook: 15% women (2014) - http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/25/facebook-diversity/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/25/facebook-diversity/ 12.33% women engineers in tech (2013) - http://qz.com/143967/the-tech-industrys-woman-problem-statistics-show-its-worse-than-you-think/ http://qz.com/143967/the-tech-industrys-woman-problem-statis... 10-12% developers are women in L.A. (2012) - http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorikozlowski/2012/03/22/women-in-tech-female-developers-by-the-numbers/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorikozlowski/2012/03/22/women-i... International Game Developers Association reported women went from from 11.5% to 22% between 2009 and 2014(?) - http://www.gamespot.com/articles/percentage-of-female-developers-has-more-than-doubled-since-2009/1100-6420680/ http://www.gamespot.com/articles/percentage-of-female-develo... Why? In addition to there being fewer women in the pipeline for tech jobs, it's been said that a good percentage of the ones that would've stayed in the workforce were harassed, etc. and left: http://www.vox.com/2016/1/17/10781366/women-technology-sexual-harassment http://www.vox.com/2016/1/17/10781366/women-technology-sexua... And then there is the wage inequality problem, shown in the stack overflow survey results- see "Salary by Gender" in http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016 http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016 Possibly men are more likely to hire men, which could cause problems with growth in women's share of the market. Of course there are also problems like having fewer role models when there are fewer in the industry, not having government and schools enabling women via scholarships, funding, etc. as much as they could, or possibly it's genuine lack of interest, but I don't think that's the case. Development was invented by women, and it would be great if they made up a greater percentage: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/in-celebration-of-ada-lovelace-the-first-computer-programmer/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/in-celebration-of-...
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    Why do you consider a role model in a field of endeavour unrelated to one's sex should be the same sex as oneself? Isn't that just the sort of sexism that you're attempting to avoid?? It seems either women are so different that they need female-centric approaches to programming and aspects, including their role models, must be tailored specifically for them. In which case, that's surely the reason there aren't so many women in tech - that it just doesn't follow the female-centric mores. Or, women and men are alike (ie fit within the same spectrum of abilities, insight and such) when it comes to programming and we should just get on with it and stop pretending people need specific help because of their sex?
tomnikl 10y ago
Great, inspiring story. I hope that news outlets continue to shine the light on people who defy the perceived status quo of who can or cannot be a successful coder.
rustynails 10y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by positive change. Firstly, the article was very sexist and I don't see that changing any time soon. "programming is just another skill to be mastered through persistence — with or without a Y chromosome.". Can anyone point me to a link where anyone (other than a feminist) has said this? Smashing of records? They came 2nd and 3rd in most instances. That's not refuting they may be talented, but the title is misleading, in more ways than one. Look, my wife is a damn good engineer. I am not intimidated in the slightest by good female engineers (I've mentored male and female engineers - despite constant accusations from feminists that this does not happen). Can we please establish a policy on YC that false, sexist or dishonest articles (like this one) be discouraged? This is a thinly veiled pulp piece of sexist journalism. There has never been a myth that women can't code. My wife is over 50 and is more than capable with specification, design, coding, testing (unit, integration, regression, acceptance) and maintenance. She also does network design, among many other skills. She's old school and got there on her own motivation and talent, not puff and propaganda. I went to university with many women in the same boat. This is nothing but a propaganda piece. It's s shame we can't celebrate these young people's success without resorting to sexism and untruths.
- positivity89 10y ago
  I think you're really underestimating these strong women. The title is not misleading because of this point: "I was one of the first few girls on the Georgian team in IOI and I was the second Georgian girl to win a medal." It doesn't matter if they are 2nd not 1st place. Bottom line is that these strong, awesome women are setting a great example.
  - pedrosorio 10y ago
    Regarding IOI, that's a common misconception people have about high school olympiads: "The top 50% of the contestants are awarded medals, such that the relative number of gold : silver : bronze : no medal is approximately 1:2:3:6 (thus 1/12 of the contestants get a gold medal)."
- lotso 10y ago
  > Can anyone point me to a link where anyone (other than a feminist) has said this? Seems odd to tie this to being a feminist. I would hope all commentators on HN are feminists. What is your definition of a feminist? > There has never been a myth that women can't code. I don't think anyone says women "can't" code. I would say in most universities in the US, you could reasonably argue there seems to be more barriers to women majoring in CS than men for many reasons. edit: For the people downvoting me, it would be great to explain why the downvotes as opposed to participating in a discussion.
oolongCat 10y ago
Its the year 2016 and the author of this article is still under the assumption that sex has something to do with skill gained through persistence. --edit-- My congrats to the girls, its really amazing, I could only imagine the amount of work they put in to achieving everything.
differentView 10y ago
>As for my sisters, if a guy says girls can’t code as well as guys, then my sisters just say “well, my sister wins competitions.” >I’ve won 2 bronze medals at IOI, 1 bronze at CEOI, 2 silvers at IZhO. Mari, Ani and I competed in HackerRank Women’s Cup as a team last year, and we ranked third place! Some companies that sponsored the event even sent us a letter after the contest, but I had to tell them that we’re too young right now to work for them. What records did they crush? They didn't even win any of the competitions they mentioned.
- komaromy 10y ago
  It's annoying when the subject of an article is interesting enough to warrant attention but the headline is sensationalized regardless.
  - positivity89 10y ago
    If the article is great, then I don't see the harm. It's worse when an article is completely misleading and the content/subject is underwhelming. This is definitely not the worst example of this.
  - dang 10y ago
    To take this issue off the table, we've changed the title to something that's factually supported by the article.
- KON_Air 10y ago
  You are missing the point, it is not about the girls or records; it is an infomercial aimed at girl coders.
- cdelsolar 10y ago
  lol
- Johnny555 10y ago
  They've won 2 bronze medals at IOI, 1 bronze at CEOI, 2 silvers at IZh
YuriNiyazov 10y ago
There's something that continuously goes unsaid in the US tech industry where we do massive amounts of soul-searching about the lack and/or poor treatment of women in STEM: the ex-republics of the Soviet Union, while they have plenty of other problems, do not have this specific problem.
- matt_wulfeck 10y ago
  my personal observation over the years says that the vast majority of new female engineers have come from foreign countries. Or are American citizens who immigrated here after middle school. We're celebrating a narrowing gender gap, but American women seem to be largely left out.
  - Apocryphon 10y ago
    I wonder which of these other nations are. Perhaps their engineering cultures are more gender-egalitarian than ours.
    - hackinthebochs 10y ago
      The best explanation I've seen is that in countries with high economic insecurity, people are motivated to work at lucrative careers with low barriers to entry, despite their lack of inherent interest. Programming is top of the list almost everywhere. The survival instinct surely is egalitarian. But in countries with less economic insecurity this motivation to work in a field without an inherent interest simply isn't there. Perhaps this motivation is different across genders in wealthier countries (men are more likely to go into fields they don't like), or men simply like technical fields at higher rates.
    - user_0001 10y ago
      Equally as important, perhaps they do not have it drilled into them that beauty is all they should aim for. Everything they see is that women should be (model level) beautiful. Should flaunt their women-ness. Advertising, makeup, dolls, television, films play a bigger part than the so called sexism that exists in engineering cultures
dcw303 10y ago
To everyone arguing technicalities over whether they are actually winners, or some odd mental gymnastics of reverse sexism, consider the following: This article is not written for you. Not everything on the internet has to be. If this story inspires just one woman to start a career in coding, then it is worth all the collective eye-rolling.
- and-can 10y ago
  I don't see many people arguing over technicalities here.
  - ryancouto 10y ago
    at this point in time, the 2nd highest comment is.
    - ikeboy 10y ago
      Note that new comments are weighted much higher (e.g. I've had top level comments on a thread with several comments immediately show up first) and so the fact that a comment is near the top at a point in time does not mean that it's popular.
      - ryancouto 10y ago
        fair enough, TIL. thanks!
shas3 10y ago
While on the topic of girls at Olympiads, one should also add Lisa Sauermann of Germany who is the most successful participant of all time at the International Math Olympiad. http://www.maa.org/news/math-news/germanys-lisa-sauermann-wins-fourth-gold-medal-at-2011-imo http://www.maa.org/news/math-news/germanys-lisa-sauermann-wi...
- cunac 10y ago
  well not really http://official.imo2011.nl/participant_r.aspx?id=19624 http://official.imo2011.nl/participant_r.aspx?id=19624 but still impressive
  - shas3 10y ago
    Ok, second most successful after 2015.
- Noughmad 10y ago
  While still on the topic of girls at Olympiads, I was recently appalled that a European Girls’ Mathematical Olympiad (https://www.egmo.org/ https://www.egmo.org/) exists. There were usually plenty of girls at IMO, so I really don't see the point of this.
Htsthbjig 10y ago
Smashing record? What they had done for humanity? In my opinion is a bad idea to add too much pressure to kids, making them compete in contest with absolutely no useful outcome. When I was a kid I entered Mensa but went out soon because of the ill competition "I am smarter than you" stupidity from tests that had nothing to do with the real world. A constant ego battle between (in lots of non testable ways) retarded people. For me it was mental onanism, most of the people there will score enormously in the IQ scores or playing chess but then fail in life: fail in love, fail in relationships and fail in health. They will use excuses to rationalize the fact that was known to them but I could see why: the environment was vicious. In contrast at 15 or so I joined a group of crackers that were dam smart and we were doing things. Forty years old experts would say a protection was impossible to break and we will break it that same weekend. It was so fun and we were doing things that nobody had done before. We did not earn a penny but it was one of the most useful experiences I ever had: Getting used to do things nobody has done before with a good team does improve other people's lifes(and your own as a result) dramatically. Had I been forced to do that when I was a kid I would never had done it. I was told I was genius, then that I was not(when I refused to make IQ scores anymore),just a precocious kid, and it was a great release, I had not pressure over my shoulders to please others' expectations. I could do as much dumb things as kids do. I was happy as a kid, and I am very happy as an adult. I feel sorry for this girls. Let girls be girls. Don't make them symbols of women fight against XY chromosomes. Let those girls decide if the want to become activist when they had grown up and could decide for themselves.
- radicality 10y ago
  > making them compete in contest with absolutely no useful outcome. Performing well at these contests means they will almost certainly be able to get any tech job they want (considering our interviews are just 'solve this algorithmic problem') and produce real useful outcome.
azaxacavaba 10y ago
Competitive coding contests are in a way similar to chess or olympiads and it is a sport in itself. For all the years I have spent and observed on topcoder, Google Code Jam and others I haven't seen a lot of women coders reaching the top, not even from Russia. So what these girls are achieving is a big deal and should inspire many. It is a little disappointing to see comments like they didn't crush because they didn't get the first prize. Consistent winning of multiple contests is definitely something and they are doing it pretty well.
- oolongCat 10y ago
  I think most of the negative comments are here, because of the sexist tone of the author of this article. What these girls have archived is something we should celebrate, not as a victory for the sexes, but as a sign that more and more young people are learning to code.
  - azazqadir 10y ago
    Exactly. It's good to see that young people today are taking interest in coding, be it a girl or a boy that doesn't matter.
rdtsc 10y ago
That is pretty awesome. I remember back in high school in the Soviet Union (then, what became one of the ex-Soviet Union republics, much like Georgia), there were quite a few girls in my class who were doing well above and beyond what boys would be in math, informatics (what we called computer science) and physics. Remember asking a girl for help to understand integrals. So there is something to it in that part of the world. And yeah I think strong role models help. One of the girls' father was a programmer that helped probably. And other aspect, I think they didn't have as many stupid and bad role models to look at -- no teen pop models, no Snapchat, our school didn't have cliques, not as much backstabbing. There was not any emphasis on sports as extra-curricular activities (How I know to compare, you might ask? Well I actually went to a year to a US High School as well so got a pretty good first hand view of both sides). Heck for a while someone invited kids from our school to join a sports riffle club (or target shooting, whatever shooting .22 riffles sport is, always wondered if it was KGB or army looking for snipers to train...). And even there, half of those that joined were girls. And they hit the targets better and most consistently than us boys because they were more dedicated and we just goofed around more. Maybe I am being nostalgic here, but I think there is something to the differences in culture. Although I wish I had a better idea exactly what it is.
- jacalata 10y ago
  Some of it may be traceable to the enormous number of Soviet men who died in WWII, prompting intense state support for single mothers and allowing the remaining men to avoid responsibility and be spoiled, essentially. This is mentioned briefly in this article if you're interested - http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/11/all-the-single-ladies/308654/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/11/all-the-...
  - jlg23 10y ago
    Maybe, or maybe it was the basic understand that the communist dream can only come true if everyone, men and women, equally work towards it. In my parents' generation (I'm born in the GDR) there was no debate about feminism. Women were expected to work, childcare was available, it was free and it catered to people who had to work 40h/week. Sometimes I was in kindergarten from 8am to 8pm. I still remember how I did not get jokes about inferiority of girls when we emigrated to Western Germany - I simply had never ever heard one before. What speaks against your theory is that men died on all sides in WWII, but in the West (read: democratic societies), women's rights developed in a distinctively different/slower way. PS: Yes, it was not all rosy, childcare was dual-use, it was also used for indoctrination of the youngest and even to some degree to control/check on the parents. EDIT: It's probably revealing that my initial impulse is to consider this story as irrelevant because it focuses on the gender. Yes, after 26 years in the West I understand why it is relevant.
nimesh159 10y ago
This is such an amazing story!
microcolonel 10y ago
I've taken the liberty to rewrite the article in literal sentences so people can enjoy it without the opinionated flourish. The interview was preserved as-is, though I added speaker labels to make it clearer who is talking. ------------- TITLE: These Three Young Sisters Perform Very Well in Programming Competitions 5 min read Mari would be skeptical of a claim that females are not good at engineering, programming, or competition. Mari, 11, has two sisters who she thinks are good at programming and competition. Elene Machaidze, 18, and her sister Ani, 16, take part in coding competitions. They win more than most other competitors. Other competitors are often men. They have medals from many prestigious programming tournaments such as International Olympiads in Informatics (IOI). The three sisters live in Georgia. Georgia is a European country with a population equal to just 11% of the state of California. They are well known for being better than their opponents at programming. They are growing up with supportive parents, teachers, and mentors who instill confidence in them. Elene demonstrated her success in programming first. Mari and Ani have her as a role model. Many successful programmers are male. We sat down with Elene to learn more about their story and how they achieved so much at such a young age. Interviewer: “So how long have you all been coding?” Elene: “Mari just started learning programming last year. Ani has been coding for four or five years now. I started coding when I was in sixth grade. I joined a programming club called Mzuiri. I just graduated from Komarovi school, which focuses on math, physics and computer science. Ani is going there now, and Mari will go there next year.” Interviewer: “What drew you all to coding?” Elene: “Our parents actually went to Komarovi school too. My dad is a programmer, and he works at a bank as a security analyst. We were exposed to math and computer science at a very early age, and we all love coding and participating in contests just for fun. I do want to major in computer science, and eventually work as a programmer like my dad. ” Interviewer: “How many programming contests have you competed in? And how many medals have you won?” Elene: “I’ve participated in tons of contests and olympiads. But the most significant ones were: IOI CEOI IZhO GeOI Google Code Jam HackerRank Women’s Cup Facebook Hacker Cup USACO COCI There were more too. I’ve won 2 bronze medals at IOI, 1 bronze at CEOI, 2 silvers at IZhO. Mari, Ani and I competed in HackerRank Women’s Cup as a team last year, and we ranked third place! Some companies that sponsored the event even sent us a letter after the contest, but I had to tell them that we’re too young right now to work for them. I might call them when I’m a student or graduated. I’m applying to colleges. I took a gap year after high school, and I was actually teaching programming to 7th to 9th graders. I often point my students toHackerRank challenges to learn how to code. It’s a great tool to supplement learning in a very hands-on way. I love how the problems are arranged on the platform. I’ve been using it for years, back when it was first called Interview Street.” Interviewer: “Wow, that’s incredible. You’re getting job opportunities before college! And even 11-year-old Mari joined the contest?” Elene: “Yeah, Women’s Cup was one of her first contests. We all worked together as a team. I did most of the coding, but Mari and Ani helped me think through the problems. It was a lot of fun, and we were really surprised we won 3rd place. It was an awesome feeling.” Interviewer: “How many programming languages do you know? What is your specialty?” Elene: “It’s funny, I actually started coding in Pascal in 6th grade. It’s such a useless language today, but that’s how I started. Then, I learned C++ and I’ve been coding in C++ ever since. More recently, I’ve been learning Python as well.” Interviewer: “Do you ever feel like you’re treated differently in forums, discussions or by men in general? Do you feel like you have to prove yourself more so?” Elene: “Some boys definitely think that they’re better than me just because I’m a girl. I might have felt bad about that years ago, but I don’t feel that way today. I’ve participated in many olympiads and competitions. And even though there are many more boys than girls, I was one of the first few girls on the Georgian team in IOI and I was the second Georgian girl to win a medal. The boys don’t say anything anymore. Generally, women are strong and I think more women should code.” Interviewer: “Yes, we agree. And how do your sisters feel being one of the few female programmers? What advice do you give other girls who want to be great at solving coding challenges like you?” Elene: “For coding challenges, like the upcoming Women’s CodeSprint, remember that if you get stuck, try to think outside of the box. I like to remember the 9 dots puzzle because it’s a great example of thinking differently. For those of you who aren’t familiar, the 9 dot puzzle requires you to connect 9 dots by drawing four straight, continuous lines that pass through each of the 9 dots without lifting your pen. Most people think to connect the boundaries, which makes the puzzle seemingly impossible. The only way you can solve this is by drawing the lines outside of the square. Hence, thinking outside of the box. Anyone can code well if they work hard and are willing to open their minds to solving problems differently. As for my sisters, if a guy says girls can’t code as well as guys, then my sisters just say “well, my sister wins competitions.” Anytime anyone says you can’t code, it’s all the more reason to roll up your sleeves and work hard. Remember, if you work hard, you can achieve anything and prove them all wrong.”
dafuq2 10y ago
> The three sisters live in Georgia, a European country [...] ... Georgia is not a European country! Stereotypical American author confirmed (no clue of geography / politics outside of the US). Next time please take a look at a map before writing a blog post.
- brohee 10y ago
  And were would it be? Georgia sings in the Eurovision, play football and rugby in the European cups... The frontier between Europe and Asia is an artificial construct, but Georgia itself firmly sees itself in Europe...
  - pgeorgi 10y ago
    Eurovision Song Contest doesn't say anything about geography: Azerbaijan and Morocco competed there in the past (being EBU members, Algeria, Tunesia, Libya, and Egypt could apply, too).
  - pluma 10y ago
    To be fair, Israel is included in a lot of European competitions for cultural-historical reasons, too, and few people would call Israel part of Europe.
- pluma 10y ago
  As a German: why not? What else would it be? The geographic absurdity of splitting up Afro-Eurasia (and Eurasia in particular) aside, Georgia lies at the exact edge of Asia and Europe but the Georgian people have always been more European than Middle Eastern (ethnicly, politicly, religiously and culturally).
- guard-of-terra 10y ago
  Actually he is right. Georgia is on the Asian side of Caucasus range.
S4M 10y ago
Basically they are the Polgár's of programming competition (for those who don't know, Susan, Sofia and Judit Polgár are chess players who were during their teens chess prodigy and some of the strongest women in the world. Judit Polgár retired last year, but she is still the only woman chess player who made it to the top 10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judit_Polg%C3%A1r https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judit_Polg%C3%A1r). In both cases they were exposed very young to their respective crafts, and I wish there was during my teens (in the nineties) an option at school to learn programming. That was in France and I don't think it has changed since then.
- qb45 10y ago
  > I wish there was during my teens (in the nineties) an option at school to learn programming. That was in France and I don't think it has changed since then. That's funny, because I learned programming basics (and was self-taught from there) at school at a time when there was no formal curriculum and our teacher was a CS student who just figured he'd do a few lessons on that because what the heck. I'm pretty sure that nowadays IT classes in my country are standardized enough that this wouldn't fly. Also, today nobody would dare hiring a CS student with no formal teaching qualifications instead of a professional teacher whose IT competence doesn't extend beyond MS Office. Meh.
hermanbystand 10y ago
> Remember asking a girl for help to understand integrals. Why does this surprise you? Why do you think a girl couldn't teach you anything about integrals? So. Fucking. Sexist.
- i_cannot_hack 10y ago
  I don't think he meant it like that at all. If he thought a girl couldn't teach you anything about integrals, he wouldn't have asked for help. I think he used it as an example to show that the cultural distinction in his school between the genders when it came to math weren't enormous. Had there been a clear culture of math as an all-boys-no-girls subject, that exchange (were he as a boy asked a girl for help) would never have happened. It is an example used to convey that it wasn't common for boys to think a girl couldn't teach you anything about integrals.
  - hermanbystand 10y ago
    If it surprises anyone that a boy can ask a girl for help with maths, then that person is a sexist. Unless you think girls are worse at maths, then this is a null-story. Shall I tell you a story about how as a child I saw that the sky is blue?
    - Infinitesimus 10y ago
      It comes across as you are more interested in being angry than trying to understand what the original poster might have been saying(?) > If it surprises anyone that a boy can ask a girl for help with maths, then that person is a sexist I think everyone here agrees with you. My understanding of the original post's point was: "I asked a girl for help in math and it was nothing special; Just like asking anyone who is good at math for help regardless of gender because we weren't socialized to view girls as somehow inferior here
      - tomtoise 10y ago
        Your parent poster is from a 3 hour old account with no other contribution to HN. Safe to assume troll.
staticelf 10y ago
> It might even be a better world, ingrained with the idea that programming is just another skill to be mastered through persistence — with or without a Y chromosome. I have never heard anyone, in my entire life, suggest otherwise. Sure it's cool that they win competitions but by consistently focus on women, treat them differently, create special groups etc is basically fighting sexism with sexism. If we shouldn't focus on the sex but the achievements this sort of article is exactly the opposite of that. I am confident that these "women can also" articles/groups/company messages creates more sexism than it solves. Why can't we just treat each other equally?
EGreg 10y ago
If you were to tell Mari that girls don’t look like engineers, women can’t code as well as men, or women aren’t as competitive as men, she’d raise a skeptical eyebrow. Actually, these girls do fit the typical criteria. They are Georgian, just like several women world Chess champions. Georgia is part of the former USSR, where women were pushed for decades to achieve things in math and science and intellectual pursuits. Having said that, I'd love to see just one or two young women that look and dress like those very attractive actresses (as one blogger said, "present as feminine" https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-595b90791cce#.icv7eu7sb https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-595b90791cce...) and yet were strong programmers or physicists or something. It seems the only look that I've ever seen for women who are hardcore into math/programming is nerdy. Perhaps the feedback from appearing a certain way discourages women from pushing themselves in cerebral activities, or perhaps there is a hidden variable that explains this correlation. In my own university graduate program, there was exactly one exception. I know it's not politically correct to bring up a woman's "visual style" when we are celebrating women coders, but someone should point out the obvious correlation, and ask why it's happening. Where are the real James Bond Christmas Joneses? Notably, the public reaction was disbelief: Reception of the film and its casting choices were mixed. The film became the first in the Bond series to win a Golden Raspberry when Denise Richards was chosen as "Worst Supporting Actress" at the 1999 Razzie Awards. Richards and Brosnan were also nominated for "Worst Screen Couple".[3] Despite stating that she liked the role because it was "brainy", "athletic", and had "depth of character, in contrast to Bond girls from previous decades",[4] Richards was criticised as not being credible in the role of a nuclear scientist.[5][6] She was ranked as one of the worst Bond girls of all time by Entertainment Weekly in 2008.[7]
- kaitai 10y ago
  Because people only talked about my clothes, not math, if I wore a dress to grad school. Now that I don't get asked if it's laundry day or why I'm wearing that or if I have a date or what special event is happening, and I don't get mistaken for a secretary, I wear dresses far more often. Simple matter of energy management -- looking pretty in a university grad program is way more trouble than it's worth.
cbeach 10y ago
Let's celebrate the achievement of these -people- Not these "men" or "women." These people. Stop tokenising gender for your own agenda.

222 points by rvivek 10y ago

Wow, this was really inspiring. There are probably hundreds of girls/women like this, but they don't make headlines as often. This is awesome. The youngest sister may even grow up in a world where she doesn't have the same barriers as most women today. Could this be a sign of positive change?

jakub_h 10y ago
There are hundreds of boys like this as well. Geniuses get born everywhere, in different bodies, places, social strata etc. The fact that many of them get lesser chances to contribute to the world is an outrageous abuse of the most precious resource that the humanity has, regardless of why it happens.
- yarou 10y ago
  And how do you propose we fix that, and more importantly, does your solution scale?
  - bbcbasic 10y ago
    If you can fix that, you can fix any human problem. It is like the P=NP of human problems.
dr_toolittle 10y ago
> The youngest sister may even grow up in a world where she doesn't have the same barriers as most women today. If there are fewer barriers, then you might see growth. Unfortunately this is difficult to tell. Some surveys show growth, others don't: S.O. survey respondents 5.8% women (2016) - http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016 http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016 S.O. survey respondents 5.8% women (2015) - http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2015 http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2015 Google: 17% women (2014) - http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/05/28/google-releases-employee-diversity-figures/9697049/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/05/28/google-release... Facebook: 15% women (2014) - http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/25/facebook-diversity/ http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/25/facebook-diversity/ 12.33% women engineers in tech (2013) - http://qz.com/143967/the-tech-industrys-woman-problem-statistics-show-its-worse-than-you-think/ http://qz.com/143967/the-tech-industrys-woman-problem-statis... 10-12% developers are women in L.A. (2012) - http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorikozlowski/2012/03/22/women-in-tech-female-developers-by-the-numbers/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/lorikozlowski/2012/03/22/women-i... International Game Developers Association reported women went from from 11.5% to 22% between 2009 and 2014(?) - http://www.gamespot.com/articles/percentage-of-female-developers-has-more-than-doubled-since-2009/1100-6420680/ http://www.gamespot.com/articles/percentage-of-female-develo... Why? In addition to there being fewer women in the pipeline for tech jobs, it's been said that a good percentage of the ones that would've stayed in the workforce were harassed, etc. and left: http://www.vox.com/2016/1/17/10781366/women-technology-sexual-harassment http://www.vox.com/2016/1/17/10781366/women-technology-sexua... And then there is the wage inequality problem, shown in the stack overflow survey results- see "Salary by Gender" in http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016 http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016 Possibly men are more likely to hire men, which could cause problems with growth in women's share of the market. Of course there are also problems like having fewer role models when there are fewer in the industry, not having government and schools enabling women via scholarships, funding, etc. as much as they could, or possibly it's genuine lack of interest, but I don't think that's the case. Development was invented by women, and it would be great if they made up a greater percentage: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/in-celebration-of-ada-lovelace-the-first-computer-programmer/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/in-celebration-of-...
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  Why do you consider a role model in a field of endeavour unrelated to one's sex should be the same sex as oneself? Isn't that just the sort of sexism that you're attempting to avoid?? It seems either women are so different that they need female-centric approaches to programming and aspects, including their role models, must be tailored specifically for them. In which case, that's surely the reason there aren't so many women in tech - that it just doesn't follow the female-centric mores. Or, women and men are alike (ie fit within the same spectrum of abilities, insight and such) when it comes to programming and we should just get on with it and stop pretending people need specific help because of their sex?

tomnikl 10y ago

Great, inspiring story. I hope that news outlets continue to shine the light on people who defy the perceived status quo of who can or cannot be a successful coder.

rustynails 10y ago

I'm not sure what you mean by positive change. Firstly, the article was very sexist and I don't see that changing any time soon. "programming is just another skill to be mastered through persistence — with or without a Y chromosome.". Can anyone point me to a link where anyone (other than a feminist) has said this? Smashing of records? They came 2nd and 3rd in most instances. That's not refuting they may be talented, but the title is misleading, in more ways than one. Look, my wife is a damn good engineer. I am not intimidated in the slightest by good female engineers (I've mentored male and female engineers - despite constant accusations from feminists that this does not happen). Can we please establish a policy on YC that false, sexist or dishonest articles (like this one) be discouraged? This is a thinly veiled pulp piece of sexist journalism. There has never been a myth that women can't code. My wife is over 50 and is more than capable with specification, design, coding, testing (unit, integration, regression, acceptance) and maintenance. She also does network design, among many other skills. She's old school and got there on her own motivation and talent, not puff and propaganda. I went to university with many women in the same boat. This is nothing but a propaganda piece. It's s shame we can't celebrate these young people's success without resorting to sexism and untruths.

positivity89 10y ago
I think you're really underestimating these strong women. The title is not misleading because of this point: "I was one of the first few girls on the Georgian team in IOI and I was the second Georgian girl to win a medal." It doesn't matter if they are 2nd not 1st place. Bottom line is that these strong, awesome women are setting a great example.
- pedrosorio 10y ago
  Regarding IOI, that's a common misconception people have about high school olympiads: "The top 50% of the contestants are awarded medals, such that the relative number of gold : silver : bronze : no medal is approximately 1:2:3:6 (thus 1/12 of the contestants get a gold medal)."
lotso 10y ago
> Can anyone point me to a link where anyone (other than a feminist) has said this? Seems odd to tie this to being a feminist. I would hope all commentators on HN are feminists. What is your definition of a feminist? > There has never been a myth that women can't code. I don't think anyone says women "can't" code. I would say in most universities in the US, you could reasonably argue there seems to be more barriers to women majoring in CS than men for many reasons. edit: For the people downvoting me, it would be great to explain why the downvotes as opposed to participating in a discussion.

oolongCat 10y ago

Its the year 2016 and the author of this article is still under the assumption that sex has something to do with skill gained through persistence. --edit-- My congrats to the girls, its really amazing, I could only imagine the amount of work they put in to achieving everything.

differentView 10y ago

>As for my sisters, if a guy says girls can’t code as well as guys, then my sisters just say “well, my sister wins competitions.” >I’ve won 2 bronze medals at IOI, 1 bronze at CEOI, 2 silvers at IZhO. Mari, Ani and I competed in HackerRank Women’s Cup as a team last year, and we ranked third place! Some companies that sponsored the event even sent us a letter after the contest, but I had to tell them that we’re too young right now to work for them. What records did they crush? They didn't even win any of the competitions they mentioned.

komaromy 10y ago
It's annoying when the subject of an article is interesting enough to warrant attention but the headline is sensationalized regardless.
- positivity89 10y ago
  If the article is great, then I don't see the harm. It's worse when an article is completely misleading and the content/subject is underwhelming. This is definitely not the worst example of this.
- dang 10y ago
  To take this issue off the table, we've changed the title to something that's factually supported by the article.
KON_Air 10y ago
You are missing the point, it is not about the girls or records; it is an infomercial aimed at girl coders.
cdelsolar 10y ago
lol
Johnny555 10y ago
They've won 2 bronze medals at IOI, 1 bronze at CEOI, 2 silvers at IZh

YuriNiyazov 10y ago

There's something that continuously goes unsaid in the US tech industry where we do massive amounts of soul-searching about the lack and/or poor treatment of women in STEM: the ex-republics of the Soviet Union, while they have plenty of other problems, do not have this specific problem.

matt_wulfeck 10y ago
my personal observation over the years says that the vast majority of new female engineers have come from foreign countries. Or are American citizens who immigrated here after middle school. We're celebrating a narrowing gender gap, but American women seem to be largely left out.
- Apocryphon 10y ago
  I wonder which of these other nations are. Perhaps their engineering cultures are more gender-egalitarian than ours.
  - hackinthebochs 10y ago
    The best explanation I've seen is that in countries with high economic insecurity, people are motivated to work at lucrative careers with low barriers to entry, despite their lack of inherent interest. Programming is top of the list almost everywhere. The survival instinct surely is egalitarian. But in countries with less economic insecurity this motivation to work in a field without an inherent interest simply isn't there. Perhaps this motivation is different across genders in wealthier countries (men are more likely to go into fields they don't like), or men simply like technical fields at higher rates.
  - user_0001 10y ago
    Equally as important, perhaps they do not have it drilled into them that beauty is all they should aim for. Everything they see is that women should be (model level) beautiful. Should flaunt their women-ness. Advertising, makeup, dolls, television, films play a bigger part than the so called sexism that exists in engineering cultures

dcw303 10y ago

To everyone arguing technicalities over whether they are actually winners, or some odd mental gymnastics of reverse sexism, consider the following: This article is not written for you. Not everything on the internet has to be. If this story inspires just one woman to start a career in coding, then it is worth all the collective eye-rolling.

and-can 10y ago
I don't see many people arguing over technicalities here.
- ryancouto 10y ago
  at this point in time, the 2nd highest comment is.
  - ikeboy 10y ago
    Note that new comments are weighted much higher (e.g. I've had top level comments on a thread with several comments immediately show up first) and so the fact that a comment is near the top at a point in time does not mean that it's popular.
    - ryancouto 10y ago
      fair enough, TIL. thanks!

shas3 10y ago

While on the topic of girls at Olympiads, one should also add Lisa Sauermann of Germany who is the most successful participant of all time at the International Math Olympiad. http://www.maa.org/news/math-news/germanys-lisa-sauermann-wins-fourth-gold-medal-at-2011-imo http://www.maa.org/news/math-news/germanys-lisa-sauermann-wi...

cunac 10y ago
well not really http://official.imo2011.nl/participant_r.aspx?id=19624 http://official.imo2011.nl/participant_r.aspx?id=19624 but still impressive
- shas3 10y ago
  Ok, second most successful after 2015.
Noughmad 10y ago
While still on the topic of girls at Olympiads, I was recently appalled that a European Girls’ Mathematical Olympiad (https://www.egmo.org/ https://www.egmo.org/) exists. There were usually plenty of girls at IMO, so I really don't see the point of this.

Htsthbjig 10y ago

Smashing record? What they had done for humanity? In my opinion is a bad idea to add too much pressure to kids, making them compete in contest with absolutely no useful outcome. When I was a kid I entered Mensa but went out soon because of the ill competition "I am smarter than you" stupidity from tests that had nothing to do with the real world. A constant ego battle between (in lots of non testable ways) retarded people. For me it was mental onanism, most of the people there will score enormously in the IQ scores or playing chess but then fail in life: fail in love, fail in relationships and fail in health. They will use excuses to rationalize the fact that was known to them but I could see why: the environment was vicious. In contrast at 15 or so I joined a group of crackers that were dam smart and we were doing things. Forty years old experts would say a protection was impossible to break and we will break it that same weekend. It was so fun and we were doing things that nobody had done before. We did not earn a penny but it was one of the most useful experiences I ever had: Getting used to do things nobody has done before with a good team does improve other people's lifes(and your own as a result) dramatically. Had I been forced to do that when I was a kid I would never had done it. I was told I was genius, then that I was not(when I refused to make IQ scores anymore),just a precocious kid, and it was a great release, I had not pressure over my shoulders to please others' expectations. I could do as much dumb things as kids do. I was happy as a kid, and I am very happy as an adult. I feel sorry for this girls. Let girls be girls. Don't make them symbols of women fight against XY chromosomes. Let those girls decide if the want to become activist when they had grown up and could decide for themselves.

radicality 10y ago
> making them compete in contest with absolutely no useful outcome. Performing well at these contests means they will almost certainly be able to get any tech job they want (considering our interviews are just 'solve this algorithmic problem') and produce real useful outcome.

azaxacavaba 10y ago

Competitive coding contests are in a way similar to chess or olympiads and it is a sport in itself. For all the years I have spent and observed on topcoder, Google Code Jam and others I haven't seen a lot of women coders reaching the top, not even from Russia. So what these girls are achieving is a big deal and should inspire many. It is a little disappointing to see comments like they didn't crush because they didn't get the first prize. Consistent winning of multiple contests is definitely something and they are doing it pretty well.

oolongCat 10y ago
I think most of the negative comments are here, because of the sexist tone of the author of this article. What these girls have archived is something we should celebrate, not as a victory for the sexes, but as a sign that more and more young people are learning to code.
- azazqadir 10y ago
  Exactly. It's good to see that young people today are taking interest in coding, be it a girl or a boy that doesn't matter.

rdtsc 10y ago

That is pretty awesome. I remember back in high school in the Soviet Union (then, what became one of the ex-Soviet Union republics, much like Georgia), there were quite a few girls in my class who were doing well above and beyond what boys would be in math, informatics (what we called computer science) and physics. Remember asking a girl for help to understand integrals. So there is something to it in that part of the world. And yeah I think strong role models help. One of the girls' father was a programmer that helped probably. And other aspect, I think they didn't have as many stupid and bad role models to look at -- no teen pop models, no Snapchat, our school didn't have cliques, not as much backstabbing. There was not any emphasis on sports as extra-curricular activities (How I know to compare, you might ask? Well I actually went to a year to a US High School as well so got a pretty good first hand view of both sides). Heck for a while someone invited kids from our school to join a sports riffle club (or target shooting, whatever shooting .22 riffles sport is, always wondered if it was KGB or army looking for snipers to train...). And even there, half of those that joined were girls. And they hit the targets better and most consistently than us boys because they were more dedicated and we just goofed around more. Maybe I am being nostalgic here, but I think there is something to the differences in culture. Although I wish I had a better idea exactly what it is.

jacalata 10y ago
Some of it may be traceable to the enormous number of Soviet men who died in WWII, prompting intense state support for single mothers and allowing the remaining men to avoid responsibility and be spoiled, essentially. This is mentioned briefly in this article if you're interested - http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/11/all-the-single-ladies/308654/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/11/all-the-...
- jlg23 10y ago
  Maybe, or maybe it was the basic understand that the communist dream can only come true if everyone, men and women, equally work towards it. In my parents' generation (I'm born in the GDR) there was no debate about feminism. Women were expected to work, childcare was available, it was free and it catered to people who had to work 40h/week. Sometimes I was in kindergarten from 8am to 8pm. I still remember how I did not get jokes about inferiority of girls when we emigrated to Western Germany - I simply had never ever heard one before. What speaks against your theory is that men died on all sides in WWII, but in the West (read: democratic societies), women's rights developed in a distinctively different/slower way. PS: Yes, it was not all rosy, childcare was dual-use, it was also used for indoctrination of the youngest and even to some degree to control/check on the parents. EDIT: It's probably revealing that my initial impulse is to consider this story as irrelevant because it focuses on the gender. Yes, after 26 years in the West I understand why it is relevant.

nimesh159 10y ago

This is such an amazing story!

microcolonel 10y ago

I've taken the liberty to rewrite the article in literal sentences so people can enjoy it without the opinionated flourish. The interview was preserved as-is, though I added speaker labels to make it clearer who is talking. ------------- TITLE: These Three Young Sisters Perform Very Well in Programming Competitions 5 min read Mari would be skeptical of a claim that females are not good at engineering, programming, or competition. Mari, 11, has two sisters who she thinks are good at programming and competition. Elene Machaidze, 18, and her sister Ani, 16, take part in coding competitions. They win more than most other competitors. Other competitors are often men. They have medals from many prestigious programming tournaments such as International Olympiads in Informatics (IOI). The three sisters live in Georgia. Georgia is a European country with a population equal to just 11% of the state of California. They are well known for being better than their opponents at programming. They are growing up with supportive parents, teachers, and mentors who instill confidence in them. Elene demonstrated her success in programming first. Mari and Ani have her as a role model. Many successful programmers are male. We sat down with Elene to learn more about their story and how they achieved so much at such a young age. Interviewer: “So how long have you all been coding?” Elene: “Mari just started learning programming last year. Ani has been coding for four or five years now. I started coding when I was in sixth grade. I joined a programming club called Mzuiri. I just graduated from Komarovi school, which focuses on math, physics and computer science. Ani is going there now, and Mari will go there next year.” Interviewer: “What drew you all to coding?” Elene: “Our parents actually went to Komarovi school too. My dad is a programmer, and he works at a bank as a security analyst. We were exposed to math and computer science at a very early age, and we all love coding and participating in contests just for fun. I do want to major in computer science, and eventually work as a programmer like my dad. ” Interviewer: “How many programming contests have you competed in? And how many medals have you won?” Elene: “I’ve participated in tons of contests and olympiads. But the most significant ones were: IOI CEOI IZhO GeOI Google Code Jam HackerRank Women’s Cup Facebook Hacker Cup USACO COCI There were more too. I’ve won 2 bronze medals at IOI, 1 bronze at CEOI, 2 silvers at IZhO. Mari, Ani and I competed in HackerRank Women’s Cup as a team last year, and we ranked third place! Some companies that sponsored the event even sent us a letter after the contest, but I had to tell them that we’re too young right now to work for them. I might call them when I’m a student or graduated. I’m applying to colleges. I took a gap year after high school, and I was actually teaching programming to 7th to 9th graders. I often point my students toHackerRank challenges to learn how to code. It’s a great tool to supplement learning in a very hands-on way. I love how the problems are arranged on the platform. I’ve been using it for years, back when it was first called Interview Street.” Interviewer: “Wow, that’s incredible. You’re getting job opportunities before college! And even 11-year-old Mari joined the contest?” Elene: “Yeah, Women’s Cup was one of her first contests. We all worked together as a team. I did most of the coding, but Mari and Ani helped me think through the problems. It was a lot of fun, and we were really surprised we won 3rd place. It was an awesome feeling.” Interviewer: “How many programming languages do you know? What is your specialty?” Elene: “It’s funny, I actually started coding in Pascal in 6th grade. It’s such a useless language today, but that’s how I started. Then, I learned C++ and I’ve been coding in C++ ever since. More recently, I’ve been learning Python as well.” Interviewer: “Do you ever feel like you’re treated differently in forums, discussions or by men in general? Do you feel like you have to prove yourself more so?” Elene: “Some boys definitely think that they’re better than me just because I’m a girl. I might have felt bad about that years ago, but I don’t feel that way today. I’ve participated in many olympiads and competitions. And even though there are many more boys than girls, I was one of the first few girls on the Georgian team in IOI and I was the second Georgian girl to win a medal. The boys don’t say anything anymore. Generally, women are strong and I think more women should code.” Interviewer: “Yes, we agree. And how do your sisters feel being one of the few female programmers? What advice do you give other girls who want to be great at solving coding challenges like you?” Elene: “For coding challenges, like the upcoming Women’s CodeSprint, remember that if you get stuck, try to think outside of the box. I like to remember the 9 dots puzzle because it’s a great example of thinking differently. For those of you who aren’t familiar, the 9 dot puzzle requires you to connect 9 dots by drawing four straight, continuous lines that pass through each of the 9 dots without lifting your pen. Most people think to connect the boundaries, which makes the puzzle seemingly impossible. The only way you can solve this is by drawing the lines outside of the square. Hence, thinking outside of the box. Anyone can code well if they work hard and are willing to open their minds to solving problems differently. As for my sisters, if a guy says girls can’t code as well as guys, then my sisters just say “well, my sister wins competitions.” Anytime anyone says you can’t code, it’s all the more reason to roll up your sleeves and work hard. Remember, if you work hard, you can achieve anything and prove them all wrong.”

dafuq2 10y ago

> The three sisters live in Georgia, a European country [...] ... Georgia is not a European country! Stereotypical American author confirmed (no clue of geography / politics outside of the US). Next time please take a look at a map before writing a blog post.

brohee 10y ago
And were would it be? Georgia sings in the Eurovision, play football and rugby in the European cups... The frontier between Europe and Asia is an artificial construct, but Georgia itself firmly sees itself in Europe...
- pgeorgi 10y ago
  Eurovision Song Contest doesn't say anything about geography: Azerbaijan and Morocco competed there in the past (being EBU members, Algeria, Tunesia, Libya, and Egypt could apply, too).
- pluma 10y ago
  To be fair, Israel is included in a lot of European competitions for cultural-historical reasons, too, and few people would call Israel part of Europe.
pluma 10y ago
As a German: why not? What else would it be? The geographic absurdity of splitting up Afro-Eurasia (and Eurasia in particular) aside, Georgia lies at the exact edge of Asia and Europe but the Georgian people have always been more European than Middle Eastern (ethnicly, politicly, religiously and culturally).
guard-of-terra 10y ago
Actually he is right. Georgia is on the Asian side of Caucasus range.

S4M 10y ago

Basically they are the Polgár's of programming competition (for those who don't know, Susan, Sofia and Judit Polgár are chess players who were during their teens chess prodigy and some of the strongest women in the world. Judit Polgár retired last year, but she is still the only woman chess player who made it to the top 10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judit_Polg%C3%A1r https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judit_Polg%C3%A1r). In both cases they were exposed very young to their respective crafts, and I wish there was during my teens (in the nineties) an option at school to learn programming. That was in France and I don't think it has changed since then.

qb45 10y ago
> I wish there was during my teens (in the nineties) an option at school to learn programming. That was in France and I don't think it has changed since then. That's funny, because I learned programming basics (and was self-taught from there) at school at a time when there was no formal curriculum and our teacher was a CS student who just figured he'd do a few lessons on that because what the heck. I'm pretty sure that nowadays IT classes in my country are standardized enough that this wouldn't fly. Also, today nobody would dare hiring a CS student with no formal teaching qualifications instead of a professional teacher whose IT competence doesn't extend beyond MS Office. Meh.

hermanbystand 10y ago

> Remember asking a girl for help to understand integrals. Why does this surprise you? Why do you think a girl couldn't teach you anything about integrals? So. Fucking. Sexist.

i_cannot_hack 10y ago
I don't think he meant it like that at all. If he thought a girl couldn't teach you anything about integrals, he wouldn't have asked for help. I think he used it as an example to show that the cultural distinction in his school between the genders when it came to math weren't enormous. Had there been a clear culture of math as an all-boys-no-girls subject, that exchange (were he as a boy asked a girl for help) would never have happened. It is an example used to convey that it wasn't common for boys to think a girl couldn't teach you anything about integrals.
- hermanbystand 10y ago
  If it surprises anyone that a boy can ask a girl for help with maths, then that person is a sexist. Unless you think girls are worse at maths, then this is a null-story. Shall I tell you a story about how as a child I saw that the sky is blue?
  - Infinitesimus 10y ago
    It comes across as you are more interested in being angry than trying to understand what the original poster might have been saying(?) > If it surprises anyone that a boy can ask a girl for help with maths, then that person is a sexist I think everyone here agrees with you. My understanding of the original post's point was: "I asked a girl for help in math and it was nothing special; Just like asking anyone who is good at math for help regardless of gender because we weren't socialized to view girls as somehow inferior here
    - tomtoise 10y ago
      Your parent poster is from a 3 hour old account with no other contribution to HN. Safe to assume troll.

staticelf 10y ago

> It might even be a better world, ingrained with the idea that programming is just another skill to be mastered through persistence — with or without a Y chromosome. I have never heard anyone, in my entire life, suggest otherwise. Sure it's cool that they win competitions but by consistently focus on women, treat them differently, create special groups etc is basically fighting sexism with sexism. If we shouldn't focus on the sex but the achievements this sort of article is exactly the opposite of that. I am confident that these "women can also" articles/groups/company messages creates more sexism than it solves. Why can't we just treat each other equally?

EGreg 10y ago

If you were to tell Mari that girls don’t look like engineers, women can’t code as well as men, or women aren’t as competitive as men, she’d raise a skeptical eyebrow. Actually, these girls do fit the typical criteria. They are Georgian, just like several women world Chess champions. Georgia is part of the former USSR, where women were pushed for decades to achieve things in math and science and intellectual pursuits. Having said that, I'd love to see just one or two young women that look and dress like those very attractive actresses (as one blogger said, "present as feminine" https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-595b90791cce#.icv7eu7sb https://medium.com/@sailorhg/coding-like-a-girl-595b90791cce...) and yet were strong programmers or physicists or something. It seems the only look that I've ever seen for women who are hardcore into math/programming is nerdy. Perhaps the feedback from appearing a certain way discourages women from pushing themselves in cerebral activities, or perhaps there is a hidden variable that explains this correlation. In my own university graduate program, there was exactly one exception. I know it's not politically correct to bring up a woman's "visual style" when we are celebrating women coders, but someone should point out the obvious correlation, and ask why it's happening. Where are the real James Bond Christmas Joneses? Notably, the public reaction was disbelief: Reception of the film and its casting choices were mixed. The film became the first in the Bond series to win a Golden Raspberry when Denise Richards was chosen as "Worst Supporting Actress" at the 1999 Razzie Awards. Richards and Brosnan were also nominated for "Worst Screen Couple".[3] Despite stating that she liked the role because it was "brainy", "athletic", and had "depth of character, in contrast to Bond girls from previous decades",[4] Richards was criticised as not being credible in the role of a nuclear scientist.[5][6] She was ranked as one of the worst Bond girls of all time by Entertainment Weekly in 2008.[7]

kaitai 10y ago
Because people only talked about my clothes, not math, if I wore a dress to grad school. Now that I don't get asked if it's laundry day or why I'm wearing that or if I have a date or what special event is happening, and I don't get mistaken for a secretary, I wear dresses far more often. Simple matter of energy management -- looking pretty in a university grad program is way more trouble than it's worth.

cbeach 10y ago

Let's celebrate the achievement of these -people- Not these "men" or "women." These people. Stop tokenising gender for your own agenda.