13 ms·

Lyft gaining on Uber as it spends big on growth

176 points by timr 11y ago

imbeau 11y ago
In Boston at least I've had a far better experience with Lyft than Uber. I know the driver pool is very similar so it's probably the result of a small sample size on my part, but Lyft drivers have just been better, happier, and more conversational. I've heard Lyft pays them slightly better, so perhaps that's part of it.
- kirykl 11y ago
  It's weird because in a way they should be the same company because they share the driver pool. But the experience is different I think it's a positive feedback loop because drivers expect a happier and more engaging customer with Lyft. And Lyft offers in app tips.
  - abawany 11y ago
    Customer responsiveness by the parent company is a big factor too, IMO. I was a user of both Uber and Lyft with a mild preference for the former. One day, for some reason, their credit card system was declining my specified card and there was no way available to contact them to get this fixed. I fired up the Lyft app and was on my way shortly. I have used Lyft's Twitter channel when I have had issues and their response was swift, courteous, and effective. Plus in the Central Texas area, all of the drivers that I have used who work for both TNCs indicate that Lyft treats them better than Uber.
    - icebraining 11y ago
      When was your experience? At least nowadays there's https://help.uber.com https://help.uber.com, support@uber.com and @Uber_Support. I've used the first regarding a promo that didn't work for my ride, and they refunded it fairly quickly.
      - abawany 11y ago
        It was last summer. In-app, there appeared no obvious way to contact them to get status on the payment problem. Changing cards did not work either, which lead me to the conclusion that the payment processing was at fault especially since the same card was working fine for Lyft. I uninstalled the app shortly after and exclusively use Lyft now.
  - dwg 11y ago
    I avoid using Lyft specifically because it has tips. Lack of tips is one of the best things about Uber.
    - ams6110 11y ago
      Maybe the tips are why Lyft drivers are perceived as "nicer"
      - dwg 11y ago
        "perceived" being the key word?
    - kirykl 11y ago
      Drivers aren't aware of the tip until the next day and only have a time reference for it, so there's no pressure to tip
      - dwg 11y ago
        Didn't know that; thank you for pointing it out. If you have to have tips, that’s a good way to handle it. Nonetheless I prefer doing away with tips for other reasons: * It’s just one more thing I have to decide, and I’m tired of doing it. I don’t even do a good job. I often tip people based on completely irrelevant things. * Tips don’t lead to better/friendlier service. Taxi drivers regularly get well over 20% tips but I’ve had very few good experiences in a taxi. Rather, they just expect a tip and get quite made if you leave a small one. * Tipping is gamed by service workers who learn what to do to get bigger tips and then focus on those things. Other aspects of service are often neglected. * In Japan service is far superior to America in all the ways I care about, but tipping is virtually nonexistent. Having spent time there, I just can’t get behind tipping.
        ipsi 11y ago
        I think Gett (a Black Cab app I use in London) improves upon tipping somewhat as well - your choices are 0%, 5%, 10%, or 12%. That's it. No giving a 20% tip (or a 100% tip because you were drunk-typing or whatever). I've always just set it to the maximum tip amount, because I figured (a) It's not that much, and (b) it would result in me getting better ratings, though after what GP said, maybe they have no idea how much I tipped :-/
  - habosa 11y ago
    It's totally a positive feedback loop. It's like Southwest airlines. They've got the same planes as everyone else and I am sure their staff has experience working for the airlines we hate. But because as a customer I think of them as nicer I treat them nicer and everyone is happier. I know my Lyft drivers likely drive for Uber too but in an Uber I don't expect a friendly driver so I never give them a chance. In a Lyft I try to strike up a conversaion and often enjoy it.
- machbio 11y ago
  I do not agree, there is still lot of controversy with regard to paying toll in Boston especially around Airport.. Try getting Lyft near Airport, you will know that there are issues regarding how Lyft treats its drivers..
  - pivo 11y ago
    Could you elaborate? I'm going to Logan soon and was going to try Lyft
- RyJones 11y ago
  I've been using Lyft quite a bit this year, and I've asked every driver if they drive for both (yes) and which they prefer (Lyft, because it pays better). Anecdata, I know.
  - beggi 11y ago
    Same here, I commute to/from work everyday using Uber and Lyft. These have been my responses from every driver I've asked.
    - chrisper 11y ago
      Are you using the new Lyft carpool thing?
    - pbreit 11y ago
      They may be set up for both but if you probe an inch deeper I suspect you'll find they prefer and drive for one service much more. Which is why it's misleading to suggest that "they all drive for both".
      - rjett 11y ago
        I was in Chicago all last week and I asked this question of my drivers as well. Every driver prefers to drive Lyft because they make more money per ride, but they end up driving Uber most of the time because there's virtually no downtime. They can pick up the next person within close proximity and almost as soon as they've dropped off the last person.
  - yesiamyourdad 11y ago
    I have driven for both in the past. Lyft has major advantages in my mind: 1. Tipping is allowed so you make more money that way. I don't think the fares are significantly different (maybe they are, I haven't compared). 2. You can cash out early. I was driving because I had just gotten a divorce and moved out and had extra expenses with getting into a new place, and frequently, being able to put $50-100 into my bank account after a night's work was the difference between solvency and insolvency. Also, I've observed anecdotally that the Lyft passengers are nicer. I've talked with various people about why that is and there are various theories, but generally the idea is that it starts at the top. Uber has a history of dick moves and I think that reflects in the different clientele.
- JumpCrisscross 11y ago
  In New York, I started seeing a marked deterioration in Uber's driver quality, for UberX as well as black cars. Two minute ETAs would turn into ten as turn after turn to where I was got blown past. This more and more frequently culminates in the driver calling me and asking me to meet them a block and a half away.
  - manigandham 11y ago
    This is made worse by drivers accepting rides when they're headed away from you on a 1-way road (which are everywhere in NYC). I've spent more time waiting for them to turn around and finally pick me up then it took to get to the actual destination. The app should disallow acceptance if the driver is pointed away from the requesting passenger.
    - jacalata 11y ago
      Ugh, I live next to a freeway in Seattle and see drivers accept while driving 60 miles an hour past me. It is infuriating - the "nearest driver" algorithm absolutely needs to be based on a real-time routing system and not something so inaccurate as distance.
      - btgeekboy 11y ago
        I've been on one side of Lake Union and had drivers on the other side try to pick me up. Sorry, no, that's just not gonna happen in a reasonable amount of time.
  - scurvy 11y ago
    I just wish that both firms would fix their mapping data. Both insist on picking me up and dropping me off around the corner from my front door. This is not a crazy street or anything. Two way next to two way. The data is so mind boggling bad that I seriously doubt the self driving car will ever come to be. The mapping data is accurate, but the systems insist on sending drivers to the wrong spot. How are you going to tell the self driving car where to actually go?
jayzalowitz 11y ago
“From everything I’m looking at, we’re gaining share in all top 20 markets, which is where 80 percent to 90 percent of rides happen,” 80% of your ridership, not uber's.
onewaystreet 11y ago
Alternative headline: Despite big spending Lyft struggling to keep up with Uber
- sahaj 11y ago
  That headline doesn't work since they were never head to head to begin with.
  - chrisseaton 11y ago
    Struggling to keep up doesn't imply you were ever head to head does it? You could struggle to keep up with someone for an entire race and always be behind them.
- tedmiston 11y ago
  > “From everything I’m looking at, we’re gaining share in all top 20 markets, which is where 80 percent to 90 percent of rides happen,” said Lyft President John Zimmer. I don't think it's quite that simple, though I don't see mentioned the rate of Lyft's growth in key markets.
  - elbigbad 11y ago
    I assume Houston is a top 20 market at least. Yet Lyft doesn't operate there.
    - alanh 11y ago
      Why assume that? Houston wasn’t one of the first 20 domestic or foreign markets for Uber: http://cl.ly/3g1Z081h1Q2G http://cl.ly/3g1Z081h1Q2G (link is an image originally from uber showing timeline of new markets opened)
    - JBReefer 11y ago
      Isn't Houston larger than Chicago now?
    - 11y ago
nemo44x 11y ago
I've used Lyft a few times recently. I'm a little suspicious Uber is using surge fair tactics on users that have agreed to the pricing in the past when there is in fact no surge occurring. When traveling for work I often use Uber and recently there was consistent surge pricing. The first day it made sense since it was raining. But then the next few times I used it there was surge pricing - not much, like 1.1x or 1.3x. I agreed because it wasn't too much more and I needed to get to my meetings and it can be expensed. I mentioned to my Uber driver there was a surge and he said it didn't come up as a surge for him. The next trip later that day the surge was 2.2x But then when I got back home I noticed every time I've brought the Uber app up there is a "surge". Even during fine weather and non-traditional surge times. I look outside and there are taxis available (NYC) and I opened Lyft and there were plenty of options without any surge. It was probably bad luck (I don't really think they'd get that greedy that quickly) but it made me try Lyft and I had the exact same experience as Uber. I suppose this is the market at work.
- late2part 11y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lin-a2lTelg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lin-a2lTelg
- jonknee 11y ago
  It's highly dependent on the market. I rarely see surge where I live (Seattle), but I was in a different city a few weeks ago and only saw surge pricing the whole time I was there.
  - jellicle 11y ago
    Right. Uber understands you don't have alternatives in that city, you don't know the city, don't have your car, and you need transit. You're in tourist-mode, so you're going to get tourist pricing. Otherwise Uber is leaving money on the table.
    - morgante 11y ago
      Do you have any evidence that surge pricing is individualized?
rorykoehler 11y ago
I'm looking forward to hailing a self-driving Tesla directly with no middle man. All the money Uber, Lyft etc are throwing at building a network will be for nothing.
- nugget 11y ago
  Have you tried Ubereats? Good experience with potentially interesting network effects for their business.
- batbomb 11y ago
  Wrong, Uber and Lyft will be the operators. You think Google really wants to get into fleet management?
  - vasilipupkin 11y ago
    why not, if it's a profitable activity?
    - stcredzero 11y ago
      They'll try to automate it to an even greater extent than their other endeavors. The only way to ever reach a human will be through lawsuits.
    - Scirra_Tom 11y ago
      Wouldn't that be a case of horizontal and vertical expansion?
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - batbomb 11y ago
      margins
  - ma2rten 11y ago
    Not Google, but maybe a new Alphabet company.
ktamura 11y ago
There's one area where Lyft is ahead of Uber, the whole "we are nicer" thing discounted: investment from an auto company (Lyft took money from GM). If you take a truly long-term view, the marketplace for on-demand drivers will become obsolete once autonomous driving becomes good enough to be adopted everywhere. At that point, Uber's biggest edge -financing and supply-side field logistics- will erode very quickly against companies that own vehicle production (auto giants) and AI (autonomous driving) Uber knows this, and that's why they have been investing a lot of money on robotics and AI around their partnership with CMU. However, they still do not get the kind of data Google can get from their Maps and Waze (It's interesting to note that Lyft and Waze partnered) to enable their AI researchers. Uber is still going to be a very successful company in the next few years: For technical and legal reasons, self-driving, on-demand vehicle services will be at least a decade out. But I'm not as sure about Uber's survival in, say, 20 years.
- stcredzero 11y ago
  There's one area where Lyft is ahead of Uber, the whole "we are nicer" thing discounted The way cultural currents are going, there's a lot of room for companies to make marketing headway through "we are nicer" and "we are not douchebags" public images. (Hopefully, fairly accurate public images.) I mean, when it's been years since Apple has been parodied with a "We're mad with power" tagline, and when public shaming has become a way of life online, it's about time for nice.
- Fennhella 11y ago
  I have no doubt about uber being around in 20 years, they're just too well established and understand where the industry is heading to become irrelevant. Though what I do think will happen is an erosion of their lead where they go from the sole 800lb gorrilla in the west to being one of many with automakers coming into their own offering self driven taxi style service on what will probably be a subscription model (like how we have monthly payments for cars today).
  - bsbechtel 11y ago
    >>Though what I do think will happen is an erosion of their lead where they go from the sole 800lb gorrilla in the west to being one of many with automakers coming into their own offering self driven taxi style service on what will probably be a subscription model (like how we have monthly payments for cars today). Either this, or I could easily seeing aggregator apps, similar to the many that have popped up to manage multiple social media accounts, appearing to help drivers and riders manage both Uber and Lyft accounts.
blt 11y ago
I often ask drivers whether they prefer Uber or Lyft. I've never heard anyone say they prefer Uber, and I've heard lots of stories about how driving for Uber is a ripoff. Neither one is a very good deal for the driver, but I'll continue to prefer Lyft as long as I keep hearing the same opinions. I still think drivers barely break even once you account for vehicle purchase and maintenance costs.
- dmix 11y ago
  > I still think drivers barely break even once you account for vehicle purchase and maintenance costs. This is the case in most cities for brokered taxis with or without Uber/Lyft. It takes working long hours and good luck that your car doesn't break down to make a decent wage.
lpsz 11y ago
Uber has been a lifesaver, but main gripe with UberX as of recently is that they don't seem to screen cars very well, at least in the Bay Area. Dirty seats, older cars, noxious air fresheners, etc. all seem to be the norm. Yes, I do try to leave feedback but wishing the baseline was a notch higher.
- msoad 11y ago
  Lyft requires drivers to go to a mentorship process but with Uber all you do is sending pictures of your driver license and car to become a driver. Lyft also sends training videos and material to drivers. Because of the possibility of the tip drivers are trying their best. It's a good idea to tip to drivers that do a good job. They are low income people and deserve that extra $1 more than your bartender that usually earns a good chunk of money each night.
  - yesiamyourdad 11y ago
    With Uber I had to get a vehicle inspection and medical certificate which required a visit to the driver center. I believe the medical certificate is legal requirement in my state. Lyft's mentorship process wasn't much of a process in my experience. I met a guy at his house, we talked for about 45 minutes, it was kind of helpful but I felt like Uber's onboarding was more organized. Uber also has a number of training videos and I think they do a better job than Lyft at providing information to drivers. I agree that the tipping thing is huge. When I drive, I get out of the car and open the door for the passengers, that kind of thing. I also make a point of keeping the car clean; at least vacuuming before I work a shift. I keep Armor All wipes in the car too so I can give a quick shine to the dashboard and the door frame (it gets scuffed up from people getting in and out and shows dirt quickly).
jackinmyshoeb 11y ago
This part of the article is particularly interesting: "Meanwhile, Uber has been working to fulfill a promise to shareholders and employees that it would achieve profitability in North America by the second quarter of 2016, a milestone it says it has now reached in the U.S. and Canada." The effects of this are being felt in engineering, there is a freeze on any new hardware purchases at the moment. You need a new server? Too bad, make do with what you've got. They've also reduced perks for new hires, and new hires are being stiffed in terms of compensation compared to what employees were getting just a few months ago, both in terms of stock and base salary and Uber credits.
Tycho 11y ago
Uber has no moat.
Stryder 11y ago
This is a race to the bottom. The real survival struggle is against Apple, Tesla and Google.
jmspring 11y ago
Care to site this specific assumption -- "Also, by age 50, everyone knows somebody killed by a human-driven car." Given your relative lack of life experience (looking at your cv) blanket statements as above aren't helpful to actual reality without facts behind them.
- dhaivatpandya 11y ago
  Although the author may not have provided a citation for the claim, this has pretty much nothing to do with "life experience"? Roughly speaking, if you have a certain likelihood of knowing someone that dies in a car accident in a given year and every year of your life is somehow independent, it is not inconceivable that (most) people by the age of 50 know someone killed by a human-driven. car.
  - justincormack 11y ago
    Depends on how many people you know and geographical distribution of accidents. It might be the case or it might not.
  - nsgi 11y ago
    Also, deaths in car accidents are decreasing, so older people are likely to have known more people that died in car accidents in their youth than younger people today.
- dang 11y ago
  > Given your relative lack of life experience (looking at your cv) Please don't bring extraneous personal details as ammunition into arguments here. That's a breach of HN's rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11512306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11512306 and marked it off-topic.
kombucha2 11y ago
I just hate tips....
- nincost 11y ago
  Then don't leave them...

176 points by timr 11y ago

In Boston at least I've had a far better experience with Lyft than Uber. I know the driver pool is very similar so it's probably the result of a small sample size on my part, but Lyft drivers have just been better, happier, and more conversational. I've heard Lyft pays them slightly better, so perhaps that's part of it.

kirykl 11y ago
It's weird because in a way they should be the same company because they share the driver pool. But the experience is different I think it's a positive feedback loop because drivers expect a happier and more engaging customer with Lyft. And Lyft offers in app tips.
- abawany 11y ago
  Customer responsiveness by the parent company is a big factor too, IMO. I was a user of both Uber and Lyft with a mild preference for the former. One day, for some reason, their credit card system was declining my specified card and there was no way available to contact them to get this fixed. I fired up the Lyft app and was on my way shortly. I have used Lyft's Twitter channel when I have had issues and their response was swift, courteous, and effective. Plus in the Central Texas area, all of the drivers that I have used who work for both TNCs indicate that Lyft treats them better than Uber.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    When was your experience? At least nowadays there's https://help.uber.com https://help.uber.com, support@uber.com and @Uber_Support. I've used the first regarding a promo that didn't work for my ride, and they refunded it fairly quickly.
    - abawany 11y ago
      It was last summer. In-app, there appeared no obvious way to contact them to get status on the payment problem. Changing cards did not work either, which lead me to the conclusion that the payment processing was at fault especially since the same card was working fine for Lyft. I uninstalled the app shortly after and exclusively use Lyft now.
- dwg 11y ago
  I avoid using Lyft specifically because it has tips. Lack of tips is one of the best things about Uber.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    Maybe the tips are why Lyft drivers are perceived as "nicer"
    - dwg 11y ago
      "perceived" being the key word?
  - kirykl 11y ago
    Drivers aren't aware of the tip until the next day and only have a time reference for it, so there's no pressure to tip
    - dwg 11y ago
      Didn't know that; thank you for pointing it out. If you have to have tips, that’s a good way to handle it. Nonetheless I prefer doing away with tips for other reasons: * It’s just one more thing I have to decide, and I’m tired of doing it. I don’t even do a good job. I often tip people based on completely irrelevant things. * Tips don’t lead to better/friendlier service. Taxi drivers regularly get well over 20% tips but I’ve had very few good experiences in a taxi. Rather, they just expect a tip and get quite made if you leave a small one. * Tipping is gamed by service workers who learn what to do to get bigger tips and then focus on those things. Other aspects of service are often neglected. * In Japan service is far superior to America in all the ways I care about, but tipping is virtually nonexistent. Having spent time there, I just can’t get behind tipping.
      - ipsi 11y ago
        I think Gett (a Black Cab app I use in London) improves upon tipping somewhat as well - your choices are 0%, 5%, 10%, or 12%. That's it. No giving a 20% tip (or a 100% tip because you were drunk-typing or whatever). I've always just set it to the maximum tip amount, because I figured (a) It's not that much, and (b) it would result in me getting better ratings, though after what GP said, maybe they have no idea how much I tipped :-/
- habosa 11y ago
  It's totally a positive feedback loop. It's like Southwest airlines. They've got the same planes as everyone else and I am sure their staff has experience working for the airlines we hate. But because as a customer I think of them as nicer I treat them nicer and everyone is happier. I know my Lyft drivers likely drive for Uber too but in an Uber I don't expect a friendly driver so I never give them a chance. In a Lyft I try to strike up a conversaion and often enjoy it.
machbio 11y ago
I do not agree, there is still lot of controversy with regard to paying toll in Boston especially around Airport.. Try getting Lyft near Airport, you will know that there are issues regarding how Lyft treats its drivers..
- pivo 11y ago
  Could you elaborate? I'm going to Logan soon and was going to try Lyft
RyJones 11y ago
I've been using Lyft quite a bit this year, and I've asked every driver if they drive for both (yes) and which they prefer (Lyft, because it pays better). Anecdata, I know.
- beggi 11y ago
  Same here, I commute to/from work everyday using Uber and Lyft. These have been my responses from every driver I've asked.
  - chrisper 11y ago
    Are you using the new Lyft carpool thing?
  - pbreit 11y ago
    They may be set up for both but if you probe an inch deeper I suspect you'll find they prefer and drive for one service much more. Which is why it's misleading to suggest that "they all drive for both".
    - rjett 11y ago
      I was in Chicago all last week and I asked this question of my drivers as well. Every driver prefers to drive Lyft because they make more money per ride, but they end up driving Uber most of the time because there's virtually no downtime. They can pick up the next person within close proximity and almost as soon as they've dropped off the last person.
- yesiamyourdad 11y ago
  I have driven for both in the past. Lyft has major advantages in my mind: 1. Tipping is allowed so you make more money that way. I don't think the fares are significantly different (maybe they are, I haven't compared). 2. You can cash out early. I was driving because I had just gotten a divorce and moved out and had extra expenses with getting into a new place, and frequently, being able to put $50-100 into my bank account after a night's work was the difference between solvency and insolvency. Also, I've observed anecdotally that the Lyft passengers are nicer. I've talked with various people about why that is and there are various theories, but generally the idea is that it starts at the top. Uber has a history of dick moves and I think that reflects in the different clientele.
JumpCrisscross 11y ago
In New York, I started seeing a marked deterioration in Uber's driver quality, for UberX as well as black cars. Two minute ETAs would turn into ten as turn after turn to where I was got blown past. This more and more frequently culminates in the driver calling me and asking me to meet them a block and a half away.
- manigandham 11y ago
  This is made worse by drivers accepting rides when they're headed away from you on a 1-way road (which are everywhere in NYC). I've spent more time waiting for them to turn around and finally pick me up then it took to get to the actual destination. The app should disallow acceptance if the driver is pointed away from the requesting passenger.
  - jacalata 11y ago
    Ugh, I live next to a freeway in Seattle and see drivers accept while driving 60 miles an hour past me. It is infuriating - the "nearest driver" algorithm absolutely needs to be based on a real-time routing system and not something so inaccurate as distance.
    - btgeekboy 11y ago
      I've been on one side of Lake Union and had drivers on the other side try to pick me up. Sorry, no, that's just not gonna happen in a reasonable amount of time.
- scurvy 11y ago
  I just wish that both firms would fix their mapping data. Both insist on picking me up and dropping me off around the corner from my front door. This is not a crazy street or anything. Two way next to two way. The data is so mind boggling bad that I seriously doubt the self driving car will ever come to be. The mapping data is accurate, but the systems insist on sending drivers to the wrong spot. How are you going to tell the self driving car where to actually go?

jayzalowitz 11y ago

“From everything I’m looking at, we’re gaining share in all top 20 markets, which is where 80 percent to 90 percent of rides happen,” 80% of your ridership, not uber's.

onewaystreet 11y ago

Alternative headline: Despite big spending Lyft struggling to keep up with Uber

sahaj 11y ago
That headline doesn't work since they were never head to head to begin with.
- chrisseaton 11y ago
  Struggling to keep up doesn't imply you were ever head to head does it? You could struggle to keep up with someone for an entire race and always be behind them.
tedmiston 11y ago
> “From everything I’m looking at, we’re gaining share in all top 20 markets, which is where 80 percent to 90 percent of rides happen,” said Lyft President John Zimmer. I don't think it's quite that simple, though I don't see mentioned the rate of Lyft's growth in key markets.
- elbigbad 11y ago
  I assume Houston is a top 20 market at least. Yet Lyft doesn't operate there.
  - alanh 11y ago
    Why assume that? Houston wasn’t one of the first 20 domestic or foreign markets for Uber: http://cl.ly/3g1Z081h1Q2G http://cl.ly/3g1Z081h1Q2G (link is an image originally from uber showing timeline of new markets opened)
  - JBReefer 11y ago
    Isn't Houston larger than Chicago now?
  - 11y ago

nemo44x 11y ago

I've used Lyft a few times recently. I'm a little suspicious Uber is using surge fair tactics on users that have agreed to the pricing in the past when there is in fact no surge occurring. When traveling for work I often use Uber and recently there was consistent surge pricing. The first day it made sense since it was raining. But then the next few times I used it there was surge pricing - not much, like 1.1x or 1.3x. I agreed because it wasn't too much more and I needed to get to my meetings and it can be expensed. I mentioned to my Uber driver there was a surge and he said it didn't come up as a surge for him. The next trip later that day the surge was 2.2x But then when I got back home I noticed every time I've brought the Uber app up there is a "surge". Even during fine weather and non-traditional surge times. I look outside and there are taxis available (NYC) and I opened Lyft and there were plenty of options without any surge. It was probably bad luck (I don't really think they'd get that greedy that quickly) but it made me try Lyft and I had the exact same experience as Uber. I suppose this is the market at work.

late2part 11y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lin-a2lTelg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lin-a2lTelg
jonknee 11y ago
It's highly dependent on the market. I rarely see surge where I live (Seattle), but I was in a different city a few weeks ago and only saw surge pricing the whole time I was there.
- jellicle 11y ago
  Right. Uber understands you don't have alternatives in that city, you don't know the city, don't have your car, and you need transit. You're in tourist-mode, so you're going to get tourist pricing. Otherwise Uber is leaving money on the table.
  - morgante 11y ago
    Do you have any evidence that surge pricing is individualized?

rorykoehler 11y ago

I'm looking forward to hailing a self-driving Tesla directly with no middle man. All the money Uber, Lyft etc are throwing at building a network will be for nothing.

nugget 11y ago
Have you tried Ubereats? Good experience with potentially interesting network effects for their business.
batbomb 11y ago
Wrong, Uber and Lyft will be the operators. You think Google really wants to get into fleet management?
- vasilipupkin 11y ago
  why not, if it's a profitable activity?
  - stcredzero 11y ago
    They'll try to automate it to an even greater extent than their other endeavors. The only way to ever reach a human will be through lawsuits.
  - Scirra_Tom 11y ago
    Wouldn't that be a case of horizontal and vertical expansion?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - batbomb 11y ago
    margins
- ma2rten 11y ago
  Not Google, but maybe a new Alphabet company.

ktamura 11y ago

There's one area where Lyft is ahead of Uber, the whole "we are nicer" thing discounted: investment from an auto company (Lyft took money from GM). If you take a truly long-term view, the marketplace for on-demand drivers will become obsolete once autonomous driving becomes good enough to be adopted everywhere. At that point, Uber's biggest edge -financing and supply-side field logistics- will erode very quickly against companies that own vehicle production (auto giants) and AI (autonomous driving) Uber knows this, and that's why they have been investing a lot of money on robotics and AI around their partnership with CMU. However, they still do not get the kind of data Google can get from their Maps and Waze (It's interesting to note that Lyft and Waze partnered) to enable their AI researchers. Uber is still going to be a very successful company in the next few years: For technical and legal reasons, self-driving, on-demand vehicle services will be at least a decade out. But I'm not as sure about Uber's survival in, say, 20 years.

stcredzero 11y ago
There's one area where Lyft is ahead of Uber, the whole "we are nicer" thing discounted The way cultural currents are going, there's a lot of room for companies to make marketing headway through "we are nicer" and "we are not douchebags" public images. (Hopefully, fairly accurate public images.) I mean, when it's been years since Apple has been parodied with a "We're mad with power" tagline, and when public shaming has become a way of life online, it's about time for nice.
Fennhella 11y ago
I have no doubt about uber being around in 20 years, they're just too well established and understand where the industry is heading to become irrelevant. Though what I do think will happen is an erosion of their lead where they go from the sole 800lb gorrilla in the west to being one of many with automakers coming into their own offering self driven taxi style service on what will probably be a subscription model (like how we have monthly payments for cars today).
- bsbechtel 11y ago
  >>Though what I do think will happen is an erosion of their lead where they go from the sole 800lb gorrilla in the west to being one of many with automakers coming into their own offering self driven taxi style service on what will probably be a subscription model (like how we have monthly payments for cars today). Either this, or I could easily seeing aggregator apps, similar to the many that have popped up to manage multiple social media accounts, appearing to help drivers and riders manage both Uber and Lyft accounts.

blt 11y ago

I often ask drivers whether they prefer Uber or Lyft. I've never heard anyone say they prefer Uber, and I've heard lots of stories about how driving for Uber is a ripoff. Neither one is a very good deal for the driver, but I'll continue to prefer Lyft as long as I keep hearing the same opinions. I still think drivers barely break even once you account for vehicle purchase and maintenance costs.

dmix 11y ago
> I still think drivers barely break even once you account for vehicle purchase and maintenance costs. This is the case in most cities for brokered taxis with or without Uber/Lyft. It takes working long hours and good luck that your car doesn't break down to make a decent wage.

lpsz 11y ago

Uber has been a lifesaver, but main gripe with UberX as of recently is that they don't seem to screen cars very well, at least in the Bay Area. Dirty seats, older cars, noxious air fresheners, etc. all seem to be the norm. Yes, I do try to leave feedback but wishing the baseline was a notch higher.

msoad 11y ago
Lyft requires drivers to go to a mentorship process but with Uber all you do is sending pictures of your driver license and car to become a driver. Lyft also sends training videos and material to drivers. Because of the possibility of the tip drivers are trying their best. It's a good idea to tip to drivers that do a good job. They are low income people and deserve that extra $1 more than your bartender that usually earns a good chunk of money each night.
- yesiamyourdad 11y ago
  With Uber I had to get a vehicle inspection and medical certificate which required a visit to the driver center. I believe the medical certificate is legal requirement in my state. Lyft's mentorship process wasn't much of a process in my experience. I met a guy at his house, we talked for about 45 minutes, it was kind of helpful but I felt like Uber's onboarding was more organized. Uber also has a number of training videos and I think they do a better job than Lyft at providing information to drivers. I agree that the tipping thing is huge. When I drive, I get out of the car and open the door for the passengers, that kind of thing. I also make a point of keeping the car clean; at least vacuuming before I work a shift. I keep Armor All wipes in the car too so I can give a quick shine to the dashboard and the door frame (it gets scuffed up from people getting in and out and shows dirt quickly).

jackinmyshoeb 11y ago

This part of the article is particularly interesting: "Meanwhile, Uber has been working to fulfill a promise to shareholders and employees that it would achieve profitability in North America by the second quarter of 2016, a milestone it says it has now reached in the U.S. and Canada." The effects of this are being felt in engineering, there is a freeze on any new hardware purchases at the moment. You need a new server? Too bad, make do with what you've got. They've also reduced perks for new hires, and new hires are being stiffed in terms of compensation compared to what employees were getting just a few months ago, both in terms of stock and base salary and Uber credits.

Tycho 11y ago

Uber has no moat.

Stryder 11y ago

This is a race to the bottom. The real survival struggle is against Apple, Tesla and Google.

jmspring 11y ago

Care to site this specific assumption -- "Also, by age 50, everyone knows somebody killed by a human-driven car." Given your relative lack of life experience (looking at your cv) blanket statements as above aren't helpful to actual reality without facts behind them.

dhaivatpandya 11y ago
Although the author may not have provided a citation for the claim, this has pretty much nothing to do with "life experience"? Roughly speaking, if you have a certain likelihood of knowing someone that dies in a car accident in a given year and every year of your life is somehow independent, it is not inconceivable that (most) people by the age of 50 know someone killed by a human-driven. car.
- justincormack 11y ago
  Depends on how many people you know and geographical distribution of accidents. It might be the case or it might not.
- nsgi 11y ago
  Also, deaths in car accidents are decreasing, so older people are likely to have known more people that died in car accidents in their youth than younger people today.
dang 11y ago
> Given your relative lack of life experience (looking at your cv) Please don't bring extraneous personal details as ammunition into arguments here. That's a breach of HN's rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11512306 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11512306 and marked it off-topic.

kombucha2 11y ago

I just hate tips....

nincost 11y ago
Then don't leave them...