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Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took
- exDM69 11y agoHow curious that there's a band of no shots that's right on the three point line. But then there are plenty of shots a foot closer to the hoop. The explanation is probably psychological, you don't want to take shots that are as about as difficult as 3 point shots, but worth only two. But the situation isn't really any better if you take a single step forwards. Of course, the positioning of the defensive players matters, they're usually just inside the 3 point line.
- robertcope 11y agoI thought that was really interesting as well and would love to see if it hold true for other players.
- crescentfresh 11y agoIt would, yes. Players are taught young a foot on the line is the "worst shot in basketball".
- Anderkent 11y agoIsn't it just that if you're half a step away from 3 points, you might as well take the half a step back and try for 3 instead of 2 with a shot that's pretty much the same in difficulty?
- exDM69 11y agoYeah, but a jump shot is more difficult after a step backwards. Perhaps it isn't if you're Kobe Bryant? :)
- lportion 11y agoIt definitely isn't if you're James Harden.
- ohitsdom 11y ago> But the situation isn't really any better if you take a single step forwards. Not following your logic...
- exDM69 11y agoA step forward doesn't take you that much closer to make the shot significantly easier. Of course, you're a little closer but not that much. A step backwards moves your balance and you have momentum backwards so getting an immediate upright jump shot without losing power/accuracy is more difficult. Two different things at play here. At least this is my experience as a former competitive basketball player...
- eitally 11y agoI think it's situational and individual. For a big man catching the ball at the top of the key, looking for an opportunity to drive is the logical thought, but if you're a point/shooting guard, you're much more likely (through a combination of training, psychology and physical attributes) to move laterally or take a step back. And beyond the individual level, there's the near-universal truth that a spread floor is better than cramping everyone in the lane.
- SherlockeHolmes 11y agoWing players that are trying to represent a consistent dual threat of slashing or shooting shoot a high volume from that range. Often times you only have half a second to get the shot off with good balance.
- overcast 11y agoI think it's more like they are going for a three point shot, and want to make sure it's actually in the three point area. Pretty wasteful being just over the line, and only getting two for the effort.
- theseatoms 11y agoYou two are saying the same thing (and are both right). He's (presumably) trying to maximize points per possession. His shooting percentage is a decreasing function with respect to distance from the basket. And there's a jump in the "shot made reward function" at the 3 point line.
- ssharp 11y agoI'd say most of the time you're open in that band, you have time to take a step back and shoot behind the line. I'd guess the few shots that are in that band came off of screens where you only have a brief moment to get a shot off.
- matwood 11y agoIt's called practice. That area for a shooter is no-mans land. They either will setup outside the 3pt line or significantly inside the 3pt line. It is simply a spot no shooter, and particularly one like Kobe, would ever setup and wait for a pass or call for the ball from.
- avn2109 11y agoNot only practice, but also training. Every shooting coach in the league will tell you that the deep two is the worst shot in basketball. Kobe had it drilled into his head since he was seven years old that you never shoot a deep two.
- IkmoIkmo 11y agoI wonder if we'll ever see a maverick player perform well because he's taking these shots, trains for them, specialises in them, positions for them, in a world where defenders train supposing you'll position differently, and reposition rather than take the shot if you happen to receive a ball in a deep two position.
- gbhn 11y agoProbably not. Training for 3-pointers gets you 50% more points for (from what the outside seems like) a basically equivalent training perspective.
- p0ckets 11y agoIf you could shoot 100% deep twos, you'd only need to make 67% of 3-pointers to make it better to shoot 3's. The typical FG% is about 60% for layups, and 40% for 3's. You'd have to get better at these deep 2's than layups to make this worthwhile!
- hysan 11y agoYou won't because you're making it even easier on the defense. Trying to optimize for that spot would screw up the positioning for everyone else on your team. The defending team would have it easy because you've essentially killed all chance for high post plays, PnRs, and a good number of cut/backdoor type plays. It would take far more time than I have to breakdown the why, but the main factors off the top of my head are: 1. Remember the NBA has legal zone defense. 2. Additionally, help defense is a lot easier in today's NBA. Forced isolations would be very difficult and even if you do it, there is less ground b/w help defense and the attacker. 3. You have many more quick and/or lengthy 3&D type wings in the NBA today. Help and close-outs are easier. 4. Long shots mean long rebounds. Putting wings one step in means the offensive team would lose out on one of the main disadvantages of zones - inability to secure defensive rebounds. 5. That one player will also be a liability on transition D. He will always be one step behind in case the opposing team forces a TO and runs. That's just scratching the surface, but there is a reason it's called no-man's land for shooters.
- JeremyNT 11y agoI read this as: if he's outside of the 3-point line and open, it's in his best interest to get as close to the line as possible and take the shot. He'll never intentionally step just over that line and degrade down to a two pointer. This fact should really reduce the number of shots in the "just over the line" zone. As you go in a bit, I suspect it's much less likely that he would have started open outside the arc. If a three isn't an option he would take the easiest shot available wherever it was, and "easiest" usually means "closer (if open)". And finally, if he's just inside the arc and wide open, he's going to have time to move a step back to try the three. So I think there are few situations where it would make sense to take the shot just inside the arc.
- nxzero 11y agoGuards are more likely to let down their defense if you step inside the 2-pointer zone, but are not close to the hoop.
- strommen 11y agoWell the defensive player guarding Kobe better be positioned next to Kobe! Really, all the positioning is dictated by the offense. Defense ends up just inside the 3-point line because the offensive player sets up just outside the 3-point line, not the other way around. Kobe (and pretty much all basketball players) are continuously planning how they will get open and where they will shoot from. Part of that plan is the knowledge that an almost-but-not-quite-3-pointer is a really dumb shot. So they'll usually catch the ball at the 3-point line and either shoot or dribble substantially closer to the basket.
- billhendricksjr 11y agoA long two is the worst shot in basketball from an analytics perspective. I know that sounds incredibly obvious, but it's one biggest changes to game theory that the basketball analytics wave brought.
- frogpelt 11y agoThis is true. But I've noticed that when playing basketball I'm more willing to give a shooter an open shot in this area than behind the arc or a few steps inside of it. It made me realize why some players are willing to take a shot with one foot behind the line: because they're open!
- dsfuoi 11y agoHow is this recorded; and so accurately?
- egjerlow 11y agoSeems the NBA have upped their data collection game recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_tracking_(National_Basketball_Association) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_tracking_(National_Bask...
- chrisan 11y agoStill that is only for recent games > It began use in the NBA at the start of the 2013–14 season, and it is now in use in all 30 arenas, following trials during the previous season in 15 arenas.[ Which I guess means before that they had some guy who just recorded shots on a board. Would be interesting to see how it was collected prior to this technology
- eropple 11y agoIt was collected by interns and other cheap help, and it still is by everybody except STATS (who owns SportVU).
- SoapSeller 11y agoManually. Companies like Stats(that also now running the optical tracking in the nba) has rooms full of people watching videos of games and tagging events.
- ruffrey 11y agoIn the US? That seems really tedious.
- SoapSeller 11y agoYes, they have those people in their Chicago office. (I believe they also have people in India doing this nowdays)
- yitchelle 11y agoDoes this include free throws?
- ssharp 11y agoIt will be interesting to compare this shot chart, of the greatest scorer of his generation, to what Steph Curry's, who may be the greatest scorer of his generation, career shot chart ends up being. Where Curry's game is extremely efficient, with most points coming from behind the line or near the basket, Kobe was shooting all over the place. Kobe's game was also much more reliant on getting to the foul line. They were/are both prolific scorers but do it in completely ways.
- gokhan 11y agoTheir height and weight differences justify the different style, though. Curry is 1.91 / 86kg, hard to penetrate inside with force since he lacks the mass. Jordan and Kobe are both 1.98, you can compare them better.
- ssharp 11y agoThe differences in their gifts also account for a lot. If Curry continues through his prime like he's played the past two seasons, he'll be the greatest shooter of all time. Kobe was never a great jump shooter but was remarkable at finding ways to get shots, as well as getting fouled. Typically, in the NBA, the best scorers fit closer to the Kobe mold than Curry mold, Jordan and Lebron, for example. It will be interesting to see what influence Curry has on future generations and if others will follow his path like Kobe and Lebron followed Jordan's. From what I hear, kids are now shooting long shots like Curry when they goof around, where my generation (I'm 34) used to like playing on lowered rims so we could dunk.
- neovive 11y agoI've noticed this trend as well. I play pickup games with college students and noticed a major increase in the volume of three pointers. The game is definitely changing.
- matwood 11y agoCurry is a great shooter that also benefits from the rule changes to give shooters more space outside the paint. I never liked the constant hand checking allowed, and am glad they stopped it. I wonder how Curry would fare in the 90s NBA given his smaller frame. I think he would still be a great shooter, but could he get his shot as easily? Debates like this are what makes sports fun.
- peterjmag 11y agoA 14 foot dunk[1]? That'd be a pretty impressive jump. [1] http://i.imgur.com/H81YlNl.png http://i.imgur.com/H81YlNl.png
- ceejayoz 11y agoTagging error, most likely. A sports database guy I know found the shot and it's certainly not a fourteen foot jump: https://twitter.com/seanlahman/status/720668150258393088 https://twitter.com/seanlahman/status/720668150258393088
- anc84 11y agoWhat is the actual accuracy of the positions?
- ocodia 11y agoHow was he able to make shots from behind the basket?
- gr3yh47 11y agoover the backboard on the way out of bounds probably
- joncrocks 11y agoIt depends on how they picked the points where he 'took the shot from'. You generally don't take a shot from a standing position in normal plat, you jump. You might not always land in the same spot from which you launch. I suspect they picked the point where he jumped from, rather than too, therefore you can run parallel to the backboard, jump under it (from behind, and land in front) and lay it up so it goes in.
- nohuck13 11y agoSection I-Player The player is out-of-bounds when he touches the floor or any object on or outside a boundary. For location of a player in the air, his position is that from which he last touched the floor. [0] [0] http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_8.html?nav=ArticleList http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_8.html?nav=ArticleList Kobe Bryant shooting from behind the backboard in 2009: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnARpfzVIis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnARpfzVIis
- klue07 11y agoJump shots are taken at peak height. He probably jumped in the out-of-bounds direction for those and released the ball past the boundary line.
- sccxy 11y agoHow do you like colors of this chart? I cannot recognize colors of shots behind 3 point line. Looks like all are 'missed' for my eyes.
- mmoche 11y agoThe colors are bad for this visualization, but were chosen because the Los Angeles Lakers wear those colors, and Bryant spent his entire career with the team.
- chrismbarr 11y agoToo bad you can't ONLY show the missed/made shots, only both.
- putdat 11y agoFor anyone interested in the raw dataset: https://www.putdat.com/hnJwrwM https://www.putdat.com/hnJwrwM
- emcrazyone 11y agoAnyone know how the data is collected? Is it computer generated by some software watching the game or is there someone faithfully capturing this into some database? Does the data exist for other players. I'm a bit amazed that this kind of data is captured and wonder how accurate it is.
- emcrazyone 11y agoha! I guess I asked too soon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_tracking_(National_Basketball_Association) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_tracking_(National_Bask... I wonder what the proprietary software is. Anyone know? Based on opencv perhaps? Amazing!
- andy_ppp 11y agoYou could probably get better AI listening to the sounds of the ball hitting the ring/back board/etc rather than studying images with different angles and players an shooting styles.
- SoapSeller 11y agoSee my comments below on how the data is actually collected. But yes, there is some opencv in this project(and probably in almost every other commercial machine vision project out there), but the smart parts are hand tailored, opencv have useful general purpose algorithms, but to get the best results you need to dig deeper. Source: I've worked on the system in the past.
- distances 11y agoQuick spoiler: it's about basketball, not photography.
- distances 11y agoFor the downvoters: submission title didn't specify so I genuinely expected photography. Seems like valid clarification to me!
- Godel_unicode 11y agoSerious culture-calibration question(assuming you're not trolling): where are you from? At least in America, "Kobe Bryant is a famous basketball player" is one of those facts that everyone (for relatively large values of everyone) knows.
- fluxquanta 11y agoTo illustrate how well known he is outside of the US (specifically in Japan), a rather humorous video[0] that I saw on reddit a couple weeks ago: [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2JhvkzgVGc&feature=youtu.be&t=123 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2JhvkzgVGc&feature=youtu.be...
- distances 11y agoEurope -- mostly Germany and Finland. The only basketball players I know are Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.
- Guillaume86 11y agoMaybe also Michael Jordan?
- distances 11y agoSure, now that you mention him. And I'm sure I'd recognize some other old names upon hearing/googling, too. Just not in my active memory as basketball is a bit fringe sport around here.
- riebschlager 11y agoA random thought, but you could use this data to play an extremely long game of HORSE with Kobe Bryant. I'm sure someone is already setting up a Tumblr blog to document their attempt :)
- duaneb 11y agoI would hope Kobe himself would easily beat it with no players opposing him on the court.
- stinkytaco 11y agoOne could use the data to assist another NBA player to play an extremely long game of HORSE with him. I am certainly not an NBA player, so I expect my game with him would be fairly short.
- tedmiston 11y agoThis visualization is cool, but did anyone else get stuck in it and have to force reload to scroll on mobile?
- nstj 11y agoScroll on the extreme edges of the page. But yes bad UX
- return0 11y agoCurious when we 'll see the "Kobe bryant shot generator". Next days? Next week?
- jonas21 11y agoLooks like they used Leaflet, a Javascript mapping library, for the visualization, so you end up with funny stuff like this in the source: var courtBounds = [[33.1593, -118.0198], [34.2353, -118.5198]];
- speg 11y ago> countQuery.execute("SELECT COUNT(cartodb_id) AS feature_count FROM kobe_all_shots_geocoded_final_merge"... I sure hope they have permissions set up on that database..
- xeromal 11y agoI'd never think to view source on random pages I visit, but this has me curious who else does things like this. Why is JS executing SQL?
- jonknee 11y agoIt's an API call to CartoDB, that's how it is designed to work. The response is JSON. http://docs.cartodb.com/cartodb-platform/sql-api/ http://docs.cartodb.com/cartodb-platform/sql-api/
- xeromal 11y agoThanks for sharing. That's pretty slick then. I feel like some things are better expressed in SQL syntax.
- ralusek 11y agoPossibly a local DB like Lovefield?
- jonknee 11y agoIt's CartoDB, the full request is: http://latimes.cartodb.com/api/v2/sql?q=SELECT%20COUNT(cartodb_id)%20AS%20feature_count%20FROM%20kobe_all_shots_geocoded_final_merge http://latimes.cartodb.com/api/v2/sql?q=SELECT%20COUNT(carto...
- agentgt 11y agoIt would be pretty cool if you could enlarge the graph and change the color of the dots based on other meta data. For example instead of hit/misses it would be neat to see the colors be based on average time left in the game (gradient from one color to another). Or perhaps a color for "nothing-but-net-swoosh" (I doubt they have those metrics but maybe they do?).
- e0m 11y agoIt's amazing that there's a noticeably higher hit rate on a very precise line right down the middle and a relative shot gap 10 degrees on either side before reaching his "sweet zone". Anyone know why being only a few degrees away from center makes it harder to score?
- kabdib 11y agoI noticed that, and assumed it was issues with measurement.
- pbang 11y agoThere's no way that is indicative of anything other than issues with measurement
- lotharbot 11y agopartly, it's that totally open shots (where there wasn't a defender in the area) will tend to be charted as coming from dead-center. So if Kobe gets a steal and has a clear path to the basket, or a defender gets out of position, he's going to get an easy shot which is marked as being taken from the center unless it's obviously taken from waaaaay off to the side. Relatedly, shots that are marked as being taken from slightly to the side are more likely to be contested, often by a much bigger defender.
- the_economist 11y agoWhen you shoot from directly in front of the basket, if the shot hits the rim it can bounce off the rim, hit the backboard, then bounce back into the rim. This is actually pretty common. When you are shooting from the side and miss, the ball will be much more likely to bounce off the backboard to the side.
- cstrat 11y agoWhen I saw that I just assumed that when playing he has practised shooting from the centre line and prefers to take that extra step on the line before taking a shot.
- plg 11y agois there source code showing how to pull down these data points?
- josephscott 11y agoOf the 30,699 shots, he missed 16,966 and made 13,731. At the smallest level of performance it is nice to see that you can fail more often than you succeed and still be very successful over all.
- huac 11y agoshot percentage is a pretty arbitrary stat. a .350 batting average is also very good. a .900 hockey goalsave percentage is abysmal. to keep with the sports metaphor, you can always move your goalposts.
- phamilton 11y agoApples to apples shot percentage is a great stat. My biggest complaint with Kobe is that he scored a lot of points because he took a lot of shots. Last night for example, he took ~60% of shots from the field for his team which accounted for ~55% (ignoring FTs). In other words, the expected return on his shot was lower than the rest of his team. Now, FTs change that story a bit, but even in the best case scenario he breaks even with his team. Kobe was a great leader on the court, which is what allowed him to get away with shooting more shots than the rest of his team combined on a regular basis. He also had this "The Lakers are built around Kobe" team structure that made that the expectation.
- balls187 11y ago> My biggest complaint with Kobe is that he scored a lot of points because he took a lot of shots. Isn't that the point of basketball?
- huac 11y agonot all shots are created equal - the "long 2" has a lower expected value than taking a few steps back for a 3-pointer, or finishing at the rim for an easier 2 we can't really hold kobe's last game against him imo - he's definitely been a ballhog but if it's his last game he should have the opportunity to shoot until his arms fall off
- ben_jones 11y agoSay what you will about the NBA (like the fact that they're about to vote to have corporate logos on jerseys in the near future), but what they're doing with data science, and especially the open sourcing of it, is a gold standard not just for sports but for many other industries.
- curiousgeorgio 11y agoKnowing almost nothing about Kobe Bryant (I haven't followed the NBA for years), it looks like there's an interesting trend in 3 point attempts. At any given year of his career, the distribution of 3 point shots made compared to other shots made seems fairly balanced, as one might expect. However, the number of attempted 3 point shots (or 3 pointers missed) seems to rise significantly in the latter half of his career. I wonder if there's something to be said about an increase of confidence (deserved or not) behind the 3-point line, and whether that extra point outweighs the increased likelihood of missing as an overall statistic (obviously it could make the difference between winning and losing in a single game). Or perhaps it's indicative of a trend for the NBA overall with more 3 point attempts in recent years. Or I could be seeing something in the data that isn't there.
- jonknee 11y agoOr maybe Kobe got older and had to rely more on the three than driving to the lane.
- justinv 11y agoI think it's primarily health & age. It's less taxing to take shots outside than to try to drive up to much bigger, younger players constantly. I'd also say that as he got older, his athletic ability declined (injuries and age), so in order to continue getting points, he needed to attempt more shots.
- hackuser 11y agoPart of the reason may be that three point shooting has become much more popular in the NBA. Consider it: In many cases, if you shoot from a few steps further back then your reward increases 50%. Current MVP Stephan Curry is the epitome of this trend. Also, driving to the basket, probably his leading alternative, takes speed, strength, and the ability to take a beating. Probably all those abilities declined as he aged.
- achompas 11y agoGreat catch. What you're observing is the effect of a new trend (or a nonstationary distribution, if you prefer) wrt. shooting tendencies, as it affects the coaching and strategy of one (star) player. Your suggestion that > [the] extra point outweighs the increased likelihood of missing as an overall statistic is a relatively-recent discovery for people in the NBA: the expected point value of a three-point shot is much higher than the expected point value of a very very long two-point shot.
- uptownhr 11y agothis graph would be awesome if an instant replay of these shots were available
- astrodust 11y agoEven at just one second each that's almost half a day of shots.
- achompas 11y agoA number of commenters have astutely identified the change in shot distribution over Kobe's career, which is due to a combination of age (older wing players tend to drive less and shoot more as they get older or experience injuries) and league trends towards more 3-point shooting. If you're interested in reading an excellent analysis of the 3-pointer in the modern NBA, I highly recommend Ben Morris's article on Stephen Curry, whose historic shooting ability is so absurd, one could argue he is underutilized despite his high field goal attempt numbers. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stephen-curry-is-the-revolution/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stephen-curry-is-the-rev...
- simplemath 11y agoI can't escape Curry even here.. the ubiquitous magical little bastard
- aidenn0 11y agoThe 2016 Warriors have Curry who broke his own record for 3-pointers in a season (and now holds the #1, #2, #4, and #7 slots for that record), but they also have Klay Thompson whose season was good enough for #3 all-time in the books. Thompson is shooting .420 to Curry's .444 so it's not like Curry's being underutilized in favor of a poor outside shooter.
- jwebgordon 11y agoGreat stat I saw today: the 95-96 Bulls made 544 3-pointers that year. The 2015-2016 Warriors, if you took away every 3-pointer that Curry made, would still have 675. The game has changed indeed!
- rqebmm 11y agoI was brushing up on Zache Lowe yesterday and came across this (extremly HN-friendly) gem from a few years ago[0] about the Raptors' program for mapping ideal defensive positions, and I couldn't get over the part where the analytics team was begging the coaches to make players shoot more 3s. I guess all it took was a coach known for being a sniper in his playing days having two of the three best shooters in the league to make that analytical dream a reality. http://grantland.com/features/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution/ http://grantland.com/features/the-toronto-raptors-sportvu-ca...
- waynecochran 11y agoHere is an image of every pass Kobe made in his career: https://ezekiel.encs.vancouver.wsu.edu/~wayne/kobe-pass.png https://ezekiel.encs.vancouver.wsu.edu/~wayne/kobe-pass.png
- chishaku 11y agoThat was funny but it's time to dispel the Kobe "ballhog" myth. Consider that Kobe logged a career average of 4.7 assists per game. Compared to other elite shooting guards/small forwards: * Michael Jordan - 5.3 * Lebron James - 6.9 * Kevin Durant - 3.7 * Carmelo Anthony - 3.2 * Dwayne Wade - 5.8
- duaneb 11y agoI don't know basketball. Are those players known for assists?
- waynecochran 11y agoIt generally known that if you pass to Carmelo you'll never see the ball again.
- saeranv 11y agoThey're some of the best players in the league. 3 out of 5 are MVPs. For context in terms of contemporary players known for assists: Chris Paul: 9.95 John Wall: 8.95 Rajon Rondo: 8.70 (surprised that he's not higher!) Steve Nash: 8.49 Russel Westbrook: 7.59 eta: Should note that these guys are point guards.
- stinkytaco 11y agoThose players, with the exception of Michael Jordan who is an exception to almost all NBA players ever, are forwards or shooting guards. Their job is not to assist, it is to shoot. That said, basketball is more mobile now than it every was and passing plays such as the pick and roll are an essential part of any team's arsenal. A good player will assist his teammates as well as shoot. On the other hand, it's really not fair to pick out these players as good or bad since their circumstances have all varied. LeBron James played on teams with Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Ron Artest, Kevin Love and other excellent players. Kobe Bryant played with Shaquille O'Neil; Michael Jordan with Scott Pippen and so on. It's easy to pass when the players around you are also capable of scoring. I honestly can't think of a great shooter who's played with Carmelo Anthony. That could be because he's a ball hog and they never get to shoot and are thus forgotten, it could also be that he's the only good shooter and a centerpiece of their team.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]