6 ms·

So lets pretend you're the older developer in this case. You've been tasked with setting up this server and you have a way you like servers to be set up. You an

by chasing 11y ago

So lets pretend you're the older developer in this case. You've been tasked with setting up this server and you have a way you like servers to be set up. You and your team will be working on it, you want it set up just so. One morning before you arrive at work, junior dev Fred -- a nice kid, but definitely junior -- gets ahold of the server and starts monkeying around. It's not his job. It's not his server. And now you're either going to have to wipe the server and start fresh or get a debrief about what he has and has not done. And Fred's junior, as noted, so he doesn't always know the best way to do things (although, like many junior developers, he sure thinks he does!). So now you, senior dev, have this wild card that you just don't want to deal with because you're busy and doesn't Fred have other tasks on his plate? Why is he jumping all over your damned server? So you snap at Fred. "Get away from that -- it's mine, not yours. Please do your job and leave me to mine." Doesn't seem out of line to me.

matwood 11y ago
Actually seems in line to me as a learning moment for the junior dev. It's much like when I get a new puppy who wanders over to the the older dogs food bowl. The older dog gives a slight growl and the puppy has learned not to do that again, and one hopes in the general case (not all dogs are quite that nice). Hopefully as a junior dev this person learned a couple things here. First, that they do not know everything and second think how their actions will impact the team.
- tamana 11y ago
  Teaching new devs to stay away from teammates is not a good lesson. Humans have more complex relationships than dogs.
  - matwood 11y ago
    Actually it is teaching the opposite. Engage your teammates and ask first before thinking you know it all and start doing someone else's job.
niccaluim 11y ago
Indeed. Hopping onto a server unasked and installing packages is not being a "team player." It's being a busybody. In this situation being a team player would've been approaching the person actually tasked with the job, asking if there's anything you can do to help, and taking yes or no as an answer.
- fma 11y ago
  Exactly. A small difference in the server config from what you expect can mean hours and hours of debugging...
- tamana 11y ago
  You are confusing "not a team player" with "being a noob"
fredwu 11y ago
Hi, Author here. This is going to attract a few more downvotes for me, but I have to respectfully disagree. Partially because the scenario wasn't quite what had happened, but more importantly, even in situation exactly like what you have just described, I would not have just lashed out on my junior colleague - to me no matter how junior they are, they are still my colleagues and they still add value. There is no reason why I need to be aggressive to them when they made mistakes.
- debaserab2 11y ago
  https://medium.com/@leahbent/overcoming-special-snowflake-syndrome-as-a-millennial-2c3b83272e2b#.336jt61vq https://medium.com/@leahbent/overcoming-special-snowflake-sy...
  - manmal 11y ago
    This is unproductive.
- humbleMouse 11y ago
  If someone started installing packages on my server willy nilly I would be very angry. Servers are a personal thing. Furthermore, it is downright unprofessional to be tinkering with other people's servers if they did not ask you for help!
  - brudgers 11y ago
    To me, concerns oriented toward authorization and general security would offer a more objective and policy based framework for the discussion. The zeitgeist is servers are cattle not pets and that deploying chaos monkeys helps insure robust infrastructure.
    - tamana 11y ago
      Yes, I never make dumb mistakes, I am a living walking integration resiliency test :-)
tdkl 11y ago
But what about Freds feelings ?
basseq 11y ago
It doesn't seem out of line, but there's definitely a better way to handle this. As a senior member of the team, you need to swallow hard, take emotion and ego out of the equation, and handle the situation in a positive way. While "snapping" isn't unreasonable, the better response is more level-headed. "I like the fact that you took initiative on something that needs doing. However, we have established ways of doing this. There may also be other things you should be doing with your time instead. If you don't, here, sit behind me and let's set it up together. And in the future, check with me before you jump into something like this." That's the balance. Firm. Corrective. Accretive. And at the end of the process, you now have a junior dev you can trust to set up servers "your way".
- simula67 11y ago
  > However, we have established ways of doing this Also you need to explain why this way is the established way.
- mc32 11y ago
  It's not necessary to always treat someone as a child. Nor should it be necessary to deconstruct everything. Quick to the point explanations. No need to dance and coddle. The junior dev has the right attitude (wanting to help) but if he thinks tweaking a server some else has set up is a way to help without having gotten some okay shows how green they are and have not yet attained necessary decision making skills. I like the enthusiasm but I don't like the lack of awareness.
  - tamana 11y ago
    You're doing it again. You are using hyperbolic rude language, calling an adult a "child" -- that is being childish. And you are ignoring the reality that people all have different levels of knowledge and experience -- there is no binary flip between child and adult. People will extrapolate from their limited interactions with you, because communication is lossy. When you snap "don't touch that" they will obey "stay away from me as much as possible"
    - 11y ago
sgift 11y ago
> So you snap at Fred. "Get away from that -- it's mine, not yours. Please do your job and leave me to mine." > Doesn't seem out of line to me. Do you snap at your customers or bosses if they don't behave the way you want? If not: Why do you snap on your juniors? You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.[1] [1]Various possible sources

by chasing 11y ago

matwood 11y ago

Actually seems in line to me as a learning moment for the junior dev. It's much like when I get a new puppy who wanders over to the the older dogs food bowl. The older dog gives a slight growl and the puppy has learned not to do that again, and one hopes in the general case (not all dogs are quite that nice). Hopefully as a junior dev this person learned a couple things here. First, that they do not know everything and second think how their actions will impact the team.

tamana 11y ago
Teaching new devs to stay away from teammates is not a good lesson. Humans have more complex relationships than dogs.
- matwood 11y ago
  Actually it is teaching the opposite. Engage your teammates and ask first before thinking you know it all and start doing someone else's job.

niccaluim 11y ago

Indeed. Hopping onto a server unasked and installing packages is not being a "team player." It's being a busybody. In this situation being a team player would've been approaching the person actually tasked with the job, asking if there's anything you can do to help, and taking yes or no as an answer.

fma 11y ago
Exactly. A small difference in the server config from what you expect can mean hours and hours of debugging...
tamana 11y ago
You are confusing "not a team player" with "being a noob"

fredwu 11y ago

Hi, Author here. This is going to attract a few more downvotes for me, but I have to respectfully disagree. Partially because the scenario wasn't quite what had happened, but more importantly, even in situation exactly like what you have just described, I would not have just lashed out on my junior colleague - to me no matter how junior they are, they are still my colleagues and they still add value. There is no reason why I need to be aggressive to them when they made mistakes.

debaserab2 11y ago
https://medium.com/@leahbent/overcoming-special-snowflake-syndrome-as-a-millennial-2c3b83272e2b#.336jt61vq https://medium.com/@leahbent/overcoming-special-snowflake-sy...
- manmal 11y ago
  This is unproductive.
humbleMouse 11y ago
If someone started installing packages on my server willy nilly I would be very angry. Servers are a personal thing. Furthermore, it is downright unprofessional to be tinkering with other people's servers if they did not ask you for help!
- brudgers 11y ago
  To me, concerns oriented toward authorization and general security would offer a more objective and policy based framework for the discussion. The zeitgeist is servers are cattle not pets and that deploying chaos monkeys helps insure robust infrastructure.
  - tamana 11y ago
    Yes, I never make dumb mistakes, I am a living walking integration resiliency test :-)

tdkl 11y ago

But what about Freds feelings ?

basseq 11y ago

It doesn't seem out of line, but there's definitely a better way to handle this. As a senior member of the team, you need to swallow hard, take emotion and ego out of the equation, and handle the situation in a positive way. While "snapping" isn't unreasonable, the better response is more level-headed. "I like the fact that you took initiative on something that needs doing. However, we have established ways of doing this. There may also be other things you should be doing with your time instead. If you don't, here, sit behind me and let's set it up together. And in the future, check with me before you jump into something like this." That's the balance. Firm. Corrective. Accretive. And at the end of the process, you now have a junior dev you can trust to set up servers "your way".

simula67 11y ago
> However, we have established ways of doing this Also you need to explain why this way is the established way.
mc32 11y ago
It's not necessary to always treat someone as a child. Nor should it be necessary to deconstruct everything. Quick to the point explanations. No need to dance and coddle. The junior dev has the right attitude (wanting to help) but if he thinks tweaking a server some else has set up is a way to help without having gotten some okay shows how green they are and have not yet attained necessary decision making skills. I like the enthusiasm but I don't like the lack of awareness.
- tamana 11y ago
  You're doing it again. You are using hyperbolic rude language, calling an adult a "child" -- that is being childish. And you are ignoring the reality that people all have different levels of knowledge and experience -- there is no binary flip between child and adult. People will extrapolate from their limited interactions with you, because communication is lossy. When you snap "don't touch that" they will obey "stay away from me as much as possible"
  - 11y ago

sgift 11y ago

> So you snap at Fred. "Get away from that -- it's mine, not yours. Please do your job and leave me to mine." > Doesn't seem out of line to me. Do you snap at your customers or bosses if they don't behave the way you want? If not: Why do you snap on your juniors? You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.[1] [1]Various possible sources