10 ms·

It is remarkable that this breaking story focuses on Russia, Iceland and unfriendly/anti-Western dictators (Mubarak, Gaddafi, al-Assad). And apart from Cameron

It is remarkable that this breaking story focuses on Russia, Iceland and unfriendly/anti-Western dictators (Mubarak, Gaddafi, al-Assad). And apart from Cameron's father: - Pamela Sharples, member of the House of Lords - Michael Ashcroft, former Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party and former member of the House of Lords - Michael Mates, former Member of Parliament And in the EU: - Giuseppe Donaldo Nicosia, business partner of former Italian senator - Jérôme Cahuzac, former French minister - Konrad Mizzi, current Maltese minister - Miguel Arias Cañete, wife of a current Spanish minister and European Commissioner - Paweł Piskorski, former Warsaw mayor - Stavros Papastavrou, former advisor to the current Greek Prime Minister --- Source: ICIJ https://projects.icij.org/panama-papers/power-players/index.html https://projects.icij.org/panama-papers/power-players/index....

cperciva 11y ago
What's so remarkable about focusing on heads of state rather than lesser ministers, members of parliament, etc.?
- eugeneionesco 11y ago
  Then why are they focusing on Putin's "associates" who are not even in the government?
- infodroid 11y ago
  It makes me wonder why an "associate" of a foreign head of state is a more relevant story than the father of the head of state, or of serving politicians with close links to the party of the head of state, from the same country's taxpayer-funded news service. The story doesn't even mention the implication of Cameron's father in the scheme. Which is odd, because Cameron stood to gain from the inheritance. And if the allegations are true, then he would have benefited from the proceeds of tax evasion. There are also several other heads of state directly implicated in this scheme, yet they were not even mentioned in the story: the current heads of state of UAE, Ukraine, Argentina, and Saudi Arabia for example. And the figure who is apparently at the center of the Russian allegations is a concert cellist who has known Putin since they were teenagers. Yet the link and related BBC story convey the impression (at least to my mind) that Putin was somehow complicit in the scheme, without establishing any proof for this.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
grecy 11y ago
Is it remarkable, or is it completely expected for propaganda? I've been visiting the US for 6 months now, and the only time I hear anything about the outside world is when (China/Russia/NorthKorea) are doing something bad, or their citizens lives suck, or rarely when a social program in a developed country (UK, Europe) goes a little wrong (over budget or whatever). Interestingly, the fact that hundreds of millions of people living in developed countries have better health care, education, roads, etc. than Americans is never mentioned. It's also never mentioned that American politicians are for sale, and bribery is completely legal here.
- vinay427 11y ago
  Why would they, when Time Warner (owner of CNN), for instance, is a top 10 contributor to the Clinton campaign and is therefore legally bribing politicians? Source: https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N00000019&cycle=Career https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N000...
- boreas 11y ago
  I really feel like this is an unnecessarily melodramatic comment. I can't tell if you're being serious about American news only reporting things that make America look good but that's certainly not true in my experience. Mainstreams outlets (NYT/WSJ/etc.) have different biases on their editorial boards but they are more than willing to report negative news about the US and mundane current events from around the world. Also, I think it's a little bit to early to call propaganda/controlled-opposition on this leak. Because the US has such a strict tax evasion regime, it's pretty reasonable to believe that Americans would be treated differently by firms selling tax evasion services. Or, it could be that American names will be released later. Hard to tell at this point.
  - grecy 11y ago
    > I can't tell if you're being serious about American news only reporting things that make America look good I'm being serious. Other countries I've lived in spend a lot of time in their media comparing their own country to other countries that are doing very well, or are doing something better than them, such that they can learn from that and make their own situation or system better. When you only compare America to countries doing much worse, you never get that. The American sentiment of "we are the best" has been seriously harmful in the last ~20 years because it means there is no drive to improve anything. In fact, I notice it's very "un-American" to even suggest changing/improving things. Hypothetically, even if a given country were the best at something, that's not a reason not to improve it.
drinchev 11y ago
Can you provide a source for your list? I'm trying to find the complete list of people involved, but so far I have no luck.
- infodroid 11y ago
  Source was the Panama Papers mini-site [1] of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ). [1] https://projects.icij.org/panama-papers/power-players/index.html https://projects.icij.org/panama-papers/power-players/index....
lazyjones 11y ago
> - Stavros Papastavrou, former advisor to the current Greek Prime Minister He is a Nea Dimokratia member and was advisor of the previous government (Samaras'), not Tsipras' current one.
pier25 11y ago
> Miguel Arias Cañete, wife of a current Spanish minister and European Commissioner Nope. It's the man himself, not his wife.
- JorgeGT 11y ago
  Nope. His wife is the only one mentioned in the data according to the reporters: > The third Spaniard to appear in the giant leak is the wife of former Spanish Agriculture Minister Miguel Arias Cañete, Micaela Domecq Solís-Beaumont, who was "empowered to approve transactions of Rinconada Investments Group SA, a Panama company registered in 2005 which was in existence while her husband Miguel Arias Cañete held public positions in Spain and the European Union. https://www.thespainreport.com/articles/704-160403213534-pedro-almodovar-former-king-s-sister-and-wife-of-miguel-arias-canete-appear-in-panama-papers https://www.thespainreport.com/articles/704-160403213534-ped...
  - tremon 11y ago
    His wife is not called "Miguel Arias Cañete" though.
    - pier25 11y ago
      That was what I was pointing out...

cperciva 11y ago

What's so remarkable about focusing on heads of state rather than lesser ministers, members of parliament, etc.?

eugeneionesco 11y ago
Then why are they focusing on Putin's "associates" who are not even in the government?
infodroid 11y ago
It makes me wonder why an "associate" of a foreign head of state is a more relevant story than the father of the head of state, or of serving politicians with close links to the party of the head of state, from the same country's taxpayer-funded news service. The story doesn't even mention the implication of Cameron's father in the scheme. Which is odd, because Cameron stood to gain from the inheritance. And if the allegations are true, then he would have benefited from the proceeds of tax evasion. There are also several other heads of state directly implicated in this scheme, yet they were not even mentioned in the story: the current heads of state of UAE, Ukraine, Argentina, and Saudi Arabia for example. And the figure who is apparently at the center of the Russian allegations is a concert cellist who has known Putin since they were teenagers. Yet the link and related BBC story convey the impression (at least to my mind) that Putin was somehow complicit in the scheme, without establishing any proof for this.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

grecy 11y ago

Is it remarkable, or is it completely expected for propaganda? I've been visiting the US for 6 months now, and the only time I hear anything about the outside world is when (China/Russia/NorthKorea) are doing something bad, or their citizens lives suck, or rarely when a social program in a developed country (UK, Europe) goes a little wrong (over budget or whatever). Interestingly, the fact that hundreds of millions of people living in developed countries have better health care, education, roads, etc. than Americans is never mentioned. It's also never mentioned that American politicians are for sale, and bribery is completely legal here.

vinay427 11y ago
Why would they, when Time Warner (owner of CNN), for instance, is a top 10 contributor to the Clinton campaign and is therefore legally bribing politicians? Source: https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N00000019&cycle=Career https://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.php?cid=N000...
boreas 11y ago
I really feel like this is an unnecessarily melodramatic comment. I can't tell if you're being serious about American news only reporting things that make America look good but that's certainly not true in my experience. Mainstreams outlets (NYT/WSJ/etc.) have different biases on their editorial boards but they are more than willing to report negative news about the US and mundane current events from around the world. Also, I think it's a little bit to early to call propaganda/controlled-opposition on this leak. Because the US has such a strict tax evasion regime, it's pretty reasonable to believe that Americans would be treated differently by firms selling tax evasion services. Or, it could be that American names will be released later. Hard to tell at this point.
- grecy 11y ago
  > I can't tell if you're being serious about American news only reporting things that make America look good I'm being serious. Other countries I've lived in spend a lot of time in their media comparing their own country to other countries that are doing very well, or are doing something better than them, such that they can learn from that and make their own situation or system better. When you only compare America to countries doing much worse, you never get that. The American sentiment of "we are the best" has been seriously harmful in the last ~20 years because it means there is no drive to improve anything. In fact, I notice it's very "un-American" to even suggest changing/improving things. Hypothetically, even if a given country were the best at something, that's not a reason not to improve it.

drinchev 11y ago

Can you provide a source for your list? I'm trying to find the complete list of people involved, but so far I have no luck.

infodroid 11y ago
Source was the Panama Papers mini-site [1] of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ). [1] https://projects.icij.org/panama-papers/power-players/index.html https://projects.icij.org/panama-papers/power-players/index....

lazyjones 11y ago

> - Stavros Papastavrou, former advisor to the current Greek Prime Minister He is a Nea Dimokratia member and was advisor of the previous government (Samaras'), not Tsipras' current one.

pier25 11y ago

> Miguel Arias Cañete, wife of a current Spanish minister and European Commissioner Nope. It's the man himself, not his wife.

JorgeGT 11y ago
Nope. His wife is the only one mentioned in the data according to the reporters: > The third Spaniard to appear in the giant leak is the wife of former Spanish Agriculture Minister Miguel Arias Cañete, Micaela Domecq Solís-Beaumont, who was "empowered to approve transactions of Rinconada Investments Group SA, a Panama company registered in 2005 which was in existence while her husband Miguel Arias Cañete held public positions in Spain and the European Union. https://www.thespainreport.com/articles/704-160403213534-pedro-almodovar-former-king-s-sister-and-wife-of-miguel-arias-canete-appear-in-panama-papers https://www.thespainreport.com/articles/704-160403213534-ped...
- tremon 11y ago
  His wife is not called "Miguel Arias Cañete" though.
  - pier25 11y ago
    That was what I was pointing out...