16 ms·

These things that you mentioned, you didn't really have to do. Buy a nexus, and it's as clean as it gets. What you're saying is that you left the freedom of yo

by taesu 11y ago

These things that you mentioned, you didn't really have to do. Buy a nexus, and it's as clean as it gets. What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? I do agree though, that those samsung/lg/etc phone have lots crapwares + carrier crapwares.

kev009 11y ago
I made a trade off, being a FreeBSD person I am one degree removed from a lot of the xnu/iOS team and trust them to do the right thing. Empirically it seems like they quickly ship updates for vulns and support phones for beyond their typical first world lifespan. I also trust Apple to worry about the baseband firmware for the lifespan, whereas that is completely unmaintained on all other handsets especially once you use a custom ROM.
stcredzero 11y ago
What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? Actually, this is a pattern that many products follow, as they evolve from a newly tinkered thing pioneered by enthusiasts to a mature consumer device. There is much more "freedom" in 80's and 90's audio equipment. (And markedly higher build quality. Bargain stuff I bought as a teenager is now lauded on ebay as the good old stuff, "built like a tank.") However, there are also a lot more cables to deal with. The progression is like this: 1) Pure tinkering, no standards 2) Enthusiast market, standards, high modularity/complexity 3) Prepackaged experience, no modularity Cars also followed this pattern, come to think of it.
- Swizec 11y ago
  > Cars also followed this pattern, come to think of it. I remember my dad complaining all through my youth about how the more modern that cars get, the less serviceable you are. That in new cars you need special computers just to tell them that yes, you did fix the problem and the car can stop complaining now. 10 years later ... man, if I have to even think about opening the bonnet and poking at something, I assume the manufacturer has failed at their job. I don't want to maintain my car. I expect my car to be a tool. Even taking it into the shop to get its tires changed every winter (and the additional 30euro checkup and winter-prepr, then spring-prep) are too much of a hassle. Maintainability is the feature of unreliable equipment.
  - stcredzero 11y ago
    Maintainability is the feature of unreliable equipment. Not necessarily. Modern airliners are highly reliable, so long as you follow the maintenance schedule. Disposable equipment is a feature of markets driving costs down. It's a sign of commoditization and convenience+short-term reliability winning over long term reliability.
    - selectodude 11y ago
      Modern airliners are highly redundant. Stuff breaks on them constantly though.
      - stcredzero 11y ago
        They're operating closer to engineering limits than your smartphone is, I'd wager.
        iSnow 11y ago
        Considering structural widths in modern CPU's, I'd disagree. But CPU's are built by the billions and planes by the thousands, so the amount of engineering that can go into a CPU is insane.
  - vecinu 11y ago
    > Maintainability is the feature of unreliable equipment. Not quite. The whole purpose of maintenance is to increase the longevity of a product by making small, cheap, tweaks to complex parts that can fail due to wear and tear. Everything lasts longer if you maintain it. A good knife, a high performance vehicle, a good pair of shoes, a couch, etc ... I don't know of any product that is "as good as new" after years of use. Watches, even spoons, aren't as shiny as they were when you bought them for the first time. Maintenance is the work of the caring.
    - codehalo 11y ago
      I think his point is that the goal is to make equipment that minimizes having to make "small, cheap, tweaks to complex parts that can fail due to wear and tear".
- ywecur 11y ago
  I don't understand why this is seen as required. A Nexus phone if very modular and easy to use.
  - stcredzero 11y ago
    It's not a requirement. It's more of a common pattern.
  - bottled_poe 11y ago
    Unlike the HN readership, most people don't want to think about the tech. They just want to get things done, and are willing to pay big bucks for that convenience.
    - Terretta 11y ago
      I'm readership. I want to think about tech, but the right tech, the tech landscape, ecosystem, and tools that have to evolve to achieve my or my customers' mission. Everything else, don't make me think. Don't waste my time. Toast my toast. Protect my data. Always work when I need, with no cognitive load.
  - iSnow 11y ago
    It's only a gradual difference. A Nexus has no SD-Slot anymore, so one important aspect of modularity has been axed there.
  - rsync 11y ago
    "I don't understand why this is seen as required. A Nexus phone if very modular and easy to use." That's funny, as I see the nexus line as somewhat non-modular, given the lack of a storage expansion (SD card) slot.
jkyle 11y ago
What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? That's an incredibly hyperbolic way to spin their choice. No one's in prison here. A choice was made based on desired functionality and features. And they paid for that choice out of their own free will. They've chosen 'the jail of a simple interface' the same way someone who gets tired of working on a classic car just to keep it running as a hobby decides they'd like to buy an A8 has imprisoned themselves to the dregs of luxury car use and bumper to bumper manufacturer maintenance.
- taesu 11y ago
  I am not generalizing here. I am solely talking about kev009's decision in moving. Read his comment, his motivation to move is because he could not resist doing things that resulted him with a bricked device.
  - jkyle 11y ago
    The way his comment read to me is he felt compelled to tinker because of flaws in the device like bad firmware or poor design that didn't seem to work well for him. So he switched to a device that worked well enough so he did not feel that compulsion. After all, he could equally choose to jail break his iOS device and tinker with it. But there's no reason (for him) to do so.
pasbesoin 11y ago
In 5.x -- because Moto/Verizon refuse to update my X to 6 -- the path to add a news number in my call list to my list of contacts is... several steps and non-obvious, via the route of the command to "edit number before calling". With each Android revision I've encountered, I feel more pissed off at it. Whoever's making these changes -- it feels like they are jerking me around for the sake of their own purposes -- whether ego, marketing/ads, or whatever. And did I mention, my device -- still under contract -- is stuck on a vulnerable version of 5? I'm about done with this shit. I've been looking at the Nexi, but... I'm just pissed, at this point. Maybe Apple's a "bully", but sometimes that seems to serve a good purpose.
- sergiosgc 11y ago
  In stock Android, just click the "face" placeholder left of the number in the call list, then the new contact button on the top right of the screen. Moto is close enough to stock for this path to be present.
  - mercer 11y ago
    Much as I was happy with my Nexus 4 when I had it, this is one thing that I really didn't like about the OS' design. On iOS, it can generally be assumed that tapping on a list item will do the same thing no matter where on the item you tap. I found it infuriating at times (no hyperbole) to tap on part of a list item on Android and have different things happen depending on where I tapped, or to discover hidden functionality. Just one of the many small reasons why I ended up going back to iOS. To be fair, I could still happily use Android and the main reasons had nothing to with UI, but still, it contributed.
butThenThis134 11y ago
> Buy a nexus, and it's as clean as it gets. Until it gets infected with malware that requires a firmware reflash to close: http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/03/rooting-bug-in-android-opens-nexus-phones-to-permanent-device-compromise/ http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/03/rooting-bug-in-andro...
- xd1936 11y ago
  Ugh. $100 to anyone who actually knows somebody who has been exploited.
  - philliphaydon 11y ago
    I dont know about that exploit. But I clicked on a twitter link which installed malware and I didn't even realise. What happened was paid apps would pop up adverts. And the browser would redirect to adverts before navigating to page links.
- lern_too_spel 11y ago
  This vulnerability was already fixed for Nexuses by the time the article was written. The exact same thing has happened for iPhone. People forget that to date, a far higher percentage of iPhones have actually been infected with malware than Google-flavored Android phones due to XcodeGhost and that actual Google Android devices like Nexuses have an even better security record than that.
  - macintux 11y ago
    > a far higher percentage of iPhones have actually been infected with malware than Google-flavored Android phones Citation desperately needed.
    - lern_too_spel 11y ago
      Malware infections from the Play Store have usually been on the order of thousands infected, with the occasional instance of 500k-1 million (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/google-removes-13-android-apps-play-store-infected-brain-test-malware-1537049 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/google-removes-13-android-apps-play...). XcodeGhost infected more than 500 million of a smaller total userbase (http://www.macrumors.com/2015/09/20/xcodeghost-chinese-malware-faq/ http://www.macrumors.com/2015/09/20/xcodeghost-chinese-malwa...). The numerator is an order of magnitude larger, and the denominator is an order of magnitude smaller, so a much higher percentage of iPhones have been infected with malware.
conradfr 11y ago
Until your Nexus is out of the short update window.
- guelo 11y ago
  Nexuses seem to have about a 3-4 year update window.
  - danieldk 11y ago
    We can only judge by devices that are out of support. Galaxy Nexus: released in November 2011, last release: 4.3 in July 2013. Update Window: 1 year and 8 months. Nexus 4: released in November 2012, last release: 5.1.1 in May 2015. Update window: 2 years and 6 months. Nexus 5: released in October 2013, last release: 6.x (?), probably April/May 2016. Update window: probably 2 years and 6 months. (Granted, the Nexus 4 received security updates for a longer period.) They have recently announced a better policy: Nexus devices will continue to receive major updates for at least two years and security patches for the longer of three years from initial availability or 18 months from last sale of the device via the Google Store. Source: http://officialandroid.blogspot.de/2015/08/an-update-to-nexus-devices.html http://officialandroid.blogspot.de/2015/08/an-update-to-nexu... But 3-4 years is definitely false. Up to now ~2-2.5 years, in the future 3 years.
babuskov 11y ago
Don't buy a Nexus. I have and it's a huge disappointment. I had a perfect Nexus 10 device running KitKat. And then it keeps nagging to upgrade to Lollipop, so I did. Ever since that, it runs every application slow as hell. If you allow the battery to run out, prepare for pain. Once you fill up the battery and it restarts it will start "optimizing" all installed applications. I have about 80 applications and this takes an hour. Every time it reboots! Also, whether the sound will work after reboot, is a lottery. If you leave it plugged into the power, it surely won't work. It's been how long since Android L came out and they still haven't fixed these issues for their own flagship device. Nexus is a mess and we're not even beta testers. Just a big fu from Google.
- xd1936 11y ago
  That sounds like a list of uncommon issues. My company's Nexus 10 runs Lollipop really well... Maybe something went poorly with the OS update. Try a factory reset and see if those issues are still happening?
  - babuskov 11y ago
    A short google search for "Nexus 10 sound" would show you that it isn't uncommon at all. See how many people commented in these threads: https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/0CDPXvY5Zpc https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/0CDPXvY... https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/nexus/NR3ItKIieH4 https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/nexu... http://androidforums.com/threads/nexus-10-volume-wont-work-please-help.886973/ http://androidforums.com/threads/nexus-10-volume-wont-work-p...
    - Macha 11y ago
      A search for "iPad Air sound" is equally negative: https://www.google.ie/search?sclient=tablet-gws&q=iPad+air+sound&oq=iPad+air+sound&gs_l=tablet-gws.3..0i7i30l3.13024.16184.0.16551.17.14.1.0.0.0.167.1506.5j9.14.0....0...1c.1.64.tablet-gws..7.10.936.VuseAGMCOWQ https://www.google.ie/search?sclient=tablet-gws&q=iPad+air+s...
    - 11y ago
sethd 11y ago
Clean as it gets? That must not be a very high bar. I bought a Nexus 7 once and it came with an HP Print services app that could not be removed. I would be willing to bet that would be classified as crapware by most users. This is the main reason I stuck with iOS, even the the "pure" Android experience the Nexus line is supposed to offer is tainted.
- lern_too_spel 11y ago
  You mean like all the Apple apps you can't remove on iPhones? The difference is that on your Nexus 7, you can disable the HP Print Driver, so you never see it, while on your iPhone, those Apple apps are going to keep taking space on your home screen and continue to waste battery and data on updates.
  - sethd 11y ago
    That is true to an extent but the key difference is that on iOS they are Apple apps, not third party. We you buy a device that comes with third party apps that are not removable it feels like you just paid for an advertisement.
    - frostymarvelous 11y ago
      And on Samsung, we have Samsung apps. Double standard? Yes, not all of them are Samsung apps but those are mainly what Samsung users rile them for. Once again, you are not forced to suffer this. You have the freedom to get out of this. In your case, you DON'T!! ! And that's why Apple fans will never get it. We do have a lot of crap on Android just as you! But the thing is, we don't have to suffer it! We have the freedom to change this! That is why Android remains a superior platform. You get to choose your experience!
    - lern_too_spel 11y ago
      You mean like Yahoo! Weather, Yahoo! Stocks, and (formerly) Google Maps and YouTube? To actual users, it doesn't matter whose app it is. It just matters that they don't want them, and most of the Apple preinstalled apps are utter crap. Meanwhile on Android, though the apps aren't removable because the system partition is read-only, the apps are disable-able so the user never sees them, which is far better than what iOS lets you do.
gt565k 11y ago
I struggled with the same issues. Running CM roms that were just damn unstable and broke shit left and right. Finally settled for the Nexus 6P, and I'm loving it. No need more dealing with crapware!
bunnymancer 11y ago
What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? You should be a JavaScript developer.
scarface74 11y ago
It amazes me when Android users say that the answer to fleeing a walled garden where one company controls the hardware, the software, and the app store is by buying a phone (a Nexus) where one company provides the hardware and software and if you want to stay safe, only use their app store.
- angli 11y ago
  I'm an iPhone user myself but I understand this impulse. Having safety and compatibility sorted out for you really is an important time-saver and convenience. However, when you want to do something that isn't part of the manufacturer's plan there's only one way to go. I probably wouldn't sideload many apps, but when there's one app that makes my life easier and app store rules prohibit it, I'd really appreciate the flexibility. Long story short: just because you can doesn't mean you must. Options are nice but so is not having to think about it. The Nexus is a middle ground for Android
  - johncolanduoni 11y ago
    > I probably wouldn't sideload many apps, but when there's one app that makes my life easier and app store rules prohibit it, I'd really appreciate the flexibility. Apple relatively recently removed the requirement to pay for a developer account to compile and run apps on your own device. You can pretty much sideload apps like you can on Android, just with the added requirement of re-signing them for your device specifically (which is IMHO a nice security feature). A lot of the app store rules are enforced by human review (e.g. only being allowed to use background execution for certain things), not the sandbox itself, so you have a comparable amount of flexibility (one thing I still really miss is the ability to do JIT and dynamic code generation).
  - johncolanduoni 11y ago
    > I probably wouldn't sideload many apps, but when there's one app that makes my life easier and app store rules prohibit it, I'd really appreciate the flexibility. Apple relatively recently removed the requirement to pay for a developer account to compile and run apps on your own device. You can pretty much sideload apps like you can on Android, just with the added requirement of re-signing them for your device specifically (which is IMHO a nice security feature). A lot of the app store rules are enforced by human review (e.g. only being allowed to use background execution for certain things), not the sandbox itself, so you have a comparable amount of flexibility (one thing I still really miss is the ability to do JIT and dynamic code generation).
mayoff 11y ago
If you are addicted to junk food but want to eat clean, you rid your house of junk food. If you are addicted to TV but want to spend your time on more active pursuits, you get rid of your TV. If you're addicted to futzing around with your Android device…
- stephendedalus 11y ago
  There are people out there who are either going back to flip phones or getting rid of their phones entirely. I chose to go to a Nexus 5X instead, but I feel people wanting to simplify their lives and focus on things that matter to them more with fewer distractions.
coldtea 11y ago
>What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? No, he's saying that he got himself out of being the prisoner of his device (time, maintainance, etc wise) to being the casual user of his device.
- incepted 11y ago
  He could have been a casual user of an Android phone. All you need is learning how to prioritize your time. A lot of adults can do that.
livus 11y ago
I was a longtime android user. Now jumped to iOS. It was not just the crapware but also the sheer audacity of android developers to access any and every piece of information available on the device. Marshmallow will fix things but the ecosystem still has to catch on and I don't think that developers would be quickly jumping on board. I remember a very big media house published their first android application in my country. They demanded access to contacts, calendars, locations, camera, gallery...basically everything imaginable. And there was a fierce backlash from users. It's always a matter of trade offs. For some people, tinkering with their device is more important. And for the rest, they just want to get their work done and for their devices to get out of the way. I have come to terms with the freedom in the latter category now.
rnovak 11y ago
a simple interface that WORKS, absolutely. I tried in February to switch to the Nexus 6P. I literally had to restart it TWICE on day one. How is that even reasonable? for 650 dollars, that's a joke. I'll get downvoted to hell, but I really don't care, iOS just works (tm), and I'll take that over custimizibility any day of the week.
- what_ever 11y ago
  This is the first time I am hearing about someone having to restart their 6P twice a day. I have been using mine for 5 months now and I would have restarted the phone may 5 times other than the times I was updating it.
themihai 11y ago
Android is far from "freedom". Having to find exploits in order to get root access on your own device is just wrong.
- chetanahuja 11y ago
  With Android you have a choice to buy devices with unlockable bootloader so you can get root without looking for on exploit. On iOS you have none such. And the fact that every iOS version ever has been jailbroken only tells you how hard security is... specially against an adversary with full physical access to the device.
- bendbro 11y ago
  IOS fails the same standard. http://venturebeat.com/2015/12/31/software-with-the-most-vulnerabilities-in-2015-mac-os-x-ios-and-flash/ http://venturebeat.com/2015/12/31/software-with-the-most-vul...
wodenokoto 11y ago
I'd rather have few, good functions then many poor functions.
philliphaydon 11y ago
Has N6 and Note 4, just got iPhone 6s+ a month ago, can't believe I stayed with android so Long, the only thing I miss on iphone tho is the touch flow keyboard from windows phone, nothing on iphone and android comes close. :(
rufugee 11y ago
You know...I used to think the way you do. But given that we're the product in the Android ecosystem, lately I'm wondering more and more if I've made a mistake. If the perms were better on Android...if Google's control and permissive misuse of Android were better, I might feel differently. All that said, I don't trust Apple one bit ;-)
taneq 11y ago
> you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? "Is this not... better?" - Loki
jug 11y ago
> What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? Hmm, I think it's only a jail if it feels like one. I did something similar for my photography, "jailing" myself to a fixed lens with no zoom. It was truly liberating to lock myself in. Yes, I realize the oxymoron there. But I could concentrate on making the best of my skills rather than falling into a gear swamp.
soylentcola 11y ago
That's how it's always come across to me. I buy Nexus or Nexus-like devices (the 2014 Moto X being an example of the latter) and just like iPhones, they work just fine for me out of the box. In general, even the devices I don't personally like with OEM skins and addons work just as well out of the box for typical uses like web, email, phone, calendar, nav, and your average smattering of entertainment and communication apps. In that regard, there's not a lot of difference and both platforms succeed well. It's more about how well they "fail". When I use my iPad and it doesn't do something I want or behave in a way I prefer, my options are often similar tweaking and tinkering. Many times, I would need to jailbreak the thing in order to install an unsigned app not approved by Apple to get it to do what I want. On my Android devices, it's usually a lot simpler. iOS has improved a bit in terms of customization (being able to "open with" various apps instead of the factory defaults, third party keyboard layouts, and stuff like that) but that was always the case on Android. As these platforms have matured, they've both got their "success states" pretty solid so now it's down to how well they "fail" and how easy it is to get my device to do what I need without jaibreaking or otherwise taking advantage of security holes to gain access to certain settings or capabilities.
pmarreck 11y ago
> Switched to Android from iOS (with reasons) > Switched to iOS from Android (with reasons) > Counterargument is: But you didn't try this specific Android device. Sort of "moving the goalposts," is it not?

by taesu 11y ago

kev009 11y ago

I made a trade off, being a FreeBSD person I am one degree removed from a lot of the xnu/iOS team and trust them to do the right thing. Empirically it seems like they quickly ship updates for vulns and support phones for beyond their typical first world lifespan. I also trust Apple to worry about the baseband firmware for the lifespan, whereas that is completely unmaintained on all other handsets especially once you use a custom ROM.

stcredzero 11y ago

What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? Actually, this is a pattern that many products follow, as they evolve from a newly tinkered thing pioneered by enthusiasts to a mature consumer device. There is much more "freedom" in 80's and 90's audio equipment. (And markedly higher build quality. Bargain stuff I bought as a teenager is now lauded on ebay as the good old stuff, "built like a tank.") However, there are also a lot more cables to deal with. The progression is like this: 1) Pure tinkering, no standards 2) Enthusiast market, standards, high modularity/complexity 3) Prepackaged experience, no modularity Cars also followed this pattern, come to think of it.

Swizec 11y ago
> Cars also followed this pattern, come to think of it. I remember my dad complaining all through my youth about how the more modern that cars get, the less serviceable you are. That in new cars you need special computers just to tell them that yes, you did fix the problem and the car can stop complaining now. 10 years later ... man, if I have to even think about opening the bonnet and poking at something, I assume the manufacturer has failed at their job. I don't want to maintain my car. I expect my car to be a tool. Even taking it into the shop to get its tires changed every winter (and the additional 30euro checkup and winter-prepr, then spring-prep) are too much of a hassle. Maintainability is the feature of unreliable equipment.
- stcredzero 11y ago
  Maintainability is the feature of unreliable equipment. Not necessarily. Modern airliners are highly reliable, so long as you follow the maintenance schedule. Disposable equipment is a feature of markets driving costs down. It's a sign of commoditization and convenience+short-term reliability winning over long term reliability.
  - selectodude 11y ago
    Modern airliners are highly redundant. Stuff breaks on them constantly though.
    - stcredzero 11y ago
      They're operating closer to engineering limits than your smartphone is, I'd wager.
      - iSnow 11y ago
        Considering structural widths in modern CPU's, I'd disagree. But CPU's are built by the billions and planes by the thousands, so the amount of engineering that can go into a CPU is insane.
- vecinu 11y ago
  > Maintainability is the feature of unreliable equipment. Not quite. The whole purpose of maintenance is to increase the longevity of a product by making small, cheap, tweaks to complex parts that can fail due to wear and tear. Everything lasts longer if you maintain it. A good knife, a high performance vehicle, a good pair of shoes, a couch, etc ... I don't know of any product that is "as good as new" after years of use. Watches, even spoons, aren't as shiny as they were when you bought them for the first time. Maintenance is the work of the caring.
  - codehalo 11y ago
    I think his point is that the goal is to make equipment that minimizes having to make "small, cheap, tweaks to complex parts that can fail due to wear and tear".
ywecur 11y ago
I don't understand why this is seen as required. A Nexus phone if very modular and easy to use.
- stcredzero 11y ago
  It's not a requirement. It's more of a common pattern.
- bottled_poe 11y ago
  Unlike the HN readership, most people don't want to think about the tech. They just want to get things done, and are willing to pay big bucks for that convenience.
  - Terretta 11y ago
    I'm readership. I want to think about tech, but the right tech, the tech landscape, ecosystem, and tools that have to evolve to achieve my or my customers' mission. Everything else, don't make me think. Don't waste my time. Toast my toast. Protect my data. Always work when I need, with no cognitive load.
- iSnow 11y ago
  It's only a gradual difference. A Nexus has no SD-Slot anymore, so one important aspect of modularity has been axed there.
- rsync 11y ago
  "I don't understand why this is seen as required. A Nexus phone if very modular and easy to use." That's funny, as I see the nexus line as somewhat non-modular, given the lack of a storage expansion (SD card) slot.

jkyle 11y ago

What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? That's an incredibly hyperbolic way to spin their choice. No one's in prison here. A choice was made based on desired functionality and features. And they paid for that choice out of their own free will. They've chosen 'the jail of a simple interface' the same way someone who gets tired of working on a classic car just to keep it running as a hobby decides they'd like to buy an A8 has imprisoned themselves to the dregs of luxury car use and bumper to bumper manufacturer maintenance.

taesu 11y ago
I am not generalizing here. I am solely talking about kev009's decision in moving. Read his comment, his motivation to move is because he could not resist doing things that resulted him with a bricked device.
- jkyle 11y ago
  The way his comment read to me is he felt compelled to tinker because of flaws in the device like bad firmware or poor design that didn't seem to work well for him. So he switched to a device that worked well enough so he did not feel that compulsion. After all, he could equally choose to jail break his iOS device and tinker with it. But there's no reason (for him) to do so.

pasbesoin 11y ago

In 5.x -- because Moto/Verizon refuse to update my X to 6 -- the path to add a news number in my call list to my list of contacts is... several steps and non-obvious, via the route of the command to "edit number before calling". With each Android revision I've encountered, I feel more pissed off at it. Whoever's making these changes -- it feels like they are jerking me around for the sake of their own purposes -- whether ego, marketing/ads, or whatever. And did I mention, my device -- still under contract -- is stuck on a vulnerable version of 5? I'm about done with this shit. I've been looking at the Nexi, but... I'm just pissed, at this point. Maybe Apple's a "bully", but sometimes that seems to serve a good purpose.

sergiosgc 11y ago
In stock Android, just click the "face" placeholder left of the number in the call list, then the new contact button on the top right of the screen. Moto is close enough to stock for this path to be present.
- mercer 11y ago
  Much as I was happy with my Nexus 4 when I had it, this is one thing that I really didn't like about the OS' design. On iOS, it can generally be assumed that tapping on a list item will do the same thing no matter where on the item you tap. I found it infuriating at times (no hyperbole) to tap on part of a list item on Android and have different things happen depending on where I tapped, or to discover hidden functionality. Just one of the many small reasons why I ended up going back to iOS. To be fair, I could still happily use Android and the main reasons had nothing to with UI, but still, it contributed.

butThenThis134 11y ago

> Buy a nexus, and it's as clean as it gets. Until it gets infected with malware that requires a firmware reflash to close: http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/03/rooting-bug-in-android-opens-nexus-phones-to-permanent-device-compromise/ http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/03/rooting-bug-in-andro...

xd1936 11y ago
Ugh. $100 to anyone who actually knows somebody who has been exploited.
- philliphaydon 11y ago
  I dont know about that exploit. But I clicked on a twitter link which installed malware and I didn't even realise. What happened was paid apps would pop up adverts. And the browser would redirect to adverts before navigating to page links.
lern_too_spel 11y ago
This vulnerability was already fixed for Nexuses by the time the article was written. The exact same thing has happened for iPhone. People forget that to date, a far higher percentage of iPhones have actually been infected with malware than Google-flavored Android phones due to XcodeGhost and that actual Google Android devices like Nexuses have an even better security record than that.
- macintux 11y ago
  > a far higher percentage of iPhones have actually been infected with malware than Google-flavored Android phones Citation desperately needed.
  - lern_too_spel 11y ago
    Malware infections from the Play Store have usually been on the order of thousands infected, with the occasional instance of 500k-1 million (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/google-removes-13-android-apps-play-store-infected-brain-test-malware-1537049 http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/google-removes-13-android-apps-play...). XcodeGhost infected more than 500 million of a smaller total userbase (http://www.macrumors.com/2015/09/20/xcodeghost-chinese-malware-faq/ http://www.macrumors.com/2015/09/20/xcodeghost-chinese-malwa...). The numerator is an order of magnitude larger, and the denominator is an order of magnitude smaller, so a much higher percentage of iPhones have been infected with malware.

conradfr 11y ago

Until your Nexus is out of the short update window.

guelo 11y ago
Nexuses seem to have about a 3-4 year update window.
- danieldk 11y ago
  We can only judge by devices that are out of support. Galaxy Nexus: released in November 2011, last release: 4.3 in July 2013. Update Window: 1 year and 8 months. Nexus 4: released in November 2012, last release: 5.1.1 in May 2015. Update window: 2 years and 6 months. Nexus 5: released in October 2013, last release: 6.x (?), probably April/May 2016. Update window: probably 2 years and 6 months. (Granted, the Nexus 4 received security updates for a longer period.) They have recently announced a better policy: Nexus devices will continue to receive major updates for at least two years and security patches for the longer of three years from initial availability or 18 months from last sale of the device via the Google Store. Source: http://officialandroid.blogspot.de/2015/08/an-update-to-nexus-devices.html http://officialandroid.blogspot.de/2015/08/an-update-to-nexu... But 3-4 years is definitely false. Up to now ~2-2.5 years, in the future 3 years.

babuskov 11y ago

Don't buy a Nexus. I have and it's a huge disappointment. I had a perfect Nexus 10 device running KitKat. And then it keeps nagging to upgrade to Lollipop, so I did. Ever since that, it runs every application slow as hell. If you allow the battery to run out, prepare for pain. Once you fill up the battery and it restarts it will start "optimizing" all installed applications. I have about 80 applications and this takes an hour. Every time it reboots! Also, whether the sound will work after reboot, is a lottery. If you leave it plugged into the power, it surely won't work. It's been how long since Android L came out and they still haven't fixed these issues for their own flagship device. Nexus is a mess and we're not even beta testers. Just a big fu from Google.

xd1936 11y ago
That sounds like a list of uncommon issues. My company's Nexus 10 runs Lollipop really well... Maybe something went poorly with the OS update. Try a factory reset and see if those issues are still happening?
- babuskov 11y ago
  A short google search for "Nexus 10 sound" would show you that it isn't uncommon at all. See how many people commented in these threads: https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/0CDPXvY5Zpc https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/0CDPXvY... https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/nexus/NR3ItKIieH4 https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/nexu... http://androidforums.com/threads/nexus-10-volume-wont-work-please-help.886973/ http://androidforums.com/threads/nexus-10-volume-wont-work-p...
  - Macha 11y ago
    A search for "iPad Air sound" is equally negative: https://www.google.ie/search?sclient=tablet-gws&q=iPad+air+sound&oq=iPad+air+sound&gs_l=tablet-gws.3..0i7i30l3.13024.16184.0.16551.17.14.1.0.0.0.167.1506.5j9.14.0....0...1c.1.64.tablet-gws..7.10.936.VuseAGMCOWQ https://www.google.ie/search?sclient=tablet-gws&q=iPad+air+s...
  - 11y ago

sethd 11y ago

Clean as it gets? That must not be a very high bar. I bought a Nexus 7 once and it came with an HP Print services app that could not be removed. I would be willing to bet that would be classified as crapware by most users. This is the main reason I stuck with iOS, even the the "pure" Android experience the Nexus line is supposed to offer is tainted.

lern_too_spel 11y ago
You mean like all the Apple apps you can't remove on iPhones? The difference is that on your Nexus 7, you can disable the HP Print Driver, so you never see it, while on your iPhone, those Apple apps are going to keep taking space on your home screen and continue to waste battery and data on updates.
- sethd 11y ago
  That is true to an extent but the key difference is that on iOS they are Apple apps, not third party. We you buy a device that comes with third party apps that are not removable it feels like you just paid for an advertisement.
  - frostymarvelous 11y ago
    And on Samsung, we have Samsung apps. Double standard? Yes, not all of them are Samsung apps but those are mainly what Samsung users rile them for. Once again, you are not forced to suffer this. You have the freedom to get out of this. In your case, you DON'T!! ! And that's why Apple fans will never get it. We do have a lot of crap on Android just as you! But the thing is, we don't have to suffer it! We have the freedom to change this! That is why Android remains a superior platform. You get to choose your experience!
  - lern_too_spel 11y ago
    You mean like Yahoo! Weather, Yahoo! Stocks, and (formerly) Google Maps and YouTube? To actual users, it doesn't matter whose app it is. It just matters that they don't want them, and most of the Apple preinstalled apps are utter crap. Meanwhile on Android, though the apps aren't removable because the system partition is read-only, the apps are disable-able so the user never sees them, which is far better than what iOS lets you do.

gt565k 11y ago

I struggled with the same issues. Running CM roms that were just damn unstable and broke shit left and right. Finally settled for the Nexus 6P, and I'm loving it. No need more dealing with crapware!

bunnymancer 11y ago

What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? You should be a JavaScript developer.

scarface74 11y ago

It amazes me when Android users say that the answer to fleeing a walled garden where one company controls the hardware, the software, and the app store is by buying a phone (a Nexus) where one company provides the hardware and software and if you want to stay safe, only use their app store.

angli 11y ago
I'm an iPhone user myself but I understand this impulse. Having safety and compatibility sorted out for you really is an important time-saver and convenience. However, when you want to do something that isn't part of the manufacturer's plan there's only one way to go. I probably wouldn't sideload many apps, but when there's one app that makes my life easier and app store rules prohibit it, I'd really appreciate the flexibility. Long story short: just because you can doesn't mean you must. Options are nice but so is not having to think about it. The Nexus is a middle ground for Android
- johncolanduoni 11y ago
  > I probably wouldn't sideload many apps, but when there's one app that makes my life easier and app store rules prohibit it, I'd really appreciate the flexibility. Apple relatively recently removed the requirement to pay for a developer account to compile and run apps on your own device. You can pretty much sideload apps like you can on Android, just with the added requirement of re-signing them for your device specifically (which is IMHO a nice security feature). A lot of the app store rules are enforced by human review (e.g. only being allowed to use background execution for certain things), not the sandbox itself, so you have a comparable amount of flexibility (one thing I still really miss is the ability to do JIT and dynamic code generation).
- johncolanduoni 11y ago
  > I probably wouldn't sideload many apps, but when there's one app that makes my life easier and app store rules prohibit it, I'd really appreciate the flexibility. Apple relatively recently removed the requirement to pay for a developer account to compile and run apps on your own device. You can pretty much sideload apps like you can on Android, just with the added requirement of re-signing them for your device specifically (which is IMHO a nice security feature). A lot of the app store rules are enforced by human review (e.g. only being allowed to use background execution for certain things), not the sandbox itself, so you have a comparable amount of flexibility (one thing I still really miss is the ability to do JIT and dynamic code generation).

mayoff 11y ago

If you are addicted to junk food but want to eat clean, you rid your house of junk food. If you are addicted to TV but want to spend your time on more active pursuits, you get rid of your TV. If you're addicted to futzing around with your Android device…

stephendedalus 11y ago
There are people out there who are either going back to flip phones or getting rid of their phones entirely. I chose to go to a Nexus 5X instead, but I feel people wanting to simplify their lives and focus on things that matter to them more with fewer distractions.

coldtea 11y ago

>What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? No, he's saying that he got himself out of being the prisoner of his device (time, maintainance, etc wise) to being the casual user of his device.

incepted 11y ago
He could have been a casual user of an Android phone. All you need is learning how to prioritize your time. A lot of adults can do that.

livus 11y ago

I was a longtime android user. Now jumped to iOS. It was not just the crapware but also the sheer audacity of android developers to access any and every piece of information available on the device. Marshmallow will fix things but the ecosystem still has to catch on and I don't think that developers would be quickly jumping on board. I remember a very big media house published their first android application in my country. They demanded access to contacts, calendars, locations, camera, gallery...basically everything imaginable. And there was a fierce backlash from users. It's always a matter of trade offs. For some people, tinkering with their device is more important. And for the rest, they just want to get their work done and for their devices to get out of the way. I have come to terms with the freedom in the latter category now.

rnovak 11y ago

a simple interface that WORKS, absolutely. I tried in February to switch to the Nexus 6P. I literally had to restart it TWICE on day one. How is that even reasonable? for 650 dollars, that's a joke. I'll get downvoted to hell, but I really don't care, iOS just works (tm), and I'll take that over custimizibility any day of the week.

what_ever 11y ago
This is the first time I am hearing about someone having to restart their 6P twice a day. I have been using mine for 5 months now and I would have restarted the phone may 5 times other than the times I was updating it.

themihai 11y ago

Android is far from "freedom". Having to find exploits in order to get root access on your own device is just wrong.

chetanahuja 11y ago
With Android you have a choice to buy devices with unlockable bootloader so you can get root without looking for on exploit. On iOS you have none such. And the fact that every iOS version ever has been jailbroken only tells you how hard security is... specially against an adversary with full physical access to the device.
bendbro 11y ago
IOS fails the same standard. http://venturebeat.com/2015/12/31/software-with-the-most-vulnerabilities-in-2015-mac-os-x-ios-and-flash/ http://venturebeat.com/2015/12/31/software-with-the-most-vul...

wodenokoto 11y ago

I'd rather have few, good functions then many poor functions.

philliphaydon 11y ago

Has N6 and Note 4, just got iPhone 6s+ a month ago, can't believe I stayed with android so Long, the only thing I miss on iphone tho is the touch flow keyboard from windows phone, nothing on iphone and android comes close. :(

rufugee 11y ago

You know...I used to think the way you do. But given that we're the product in the Android ecosystem, lately I'm wondering more and more if I've made a mistake. If the perms were better on Android...if Google's control and permissive misuse of Android were better, I might feel differently. All that said, I don't trust Apple one bit ;-)

taneq 11y ago

> you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? "Is this not... better?" - Loki

jug 11y ago

> What you're saying is that you left the freedom of your device to jail yourself into simple interface...? Hmm, I think it's only a jail if it feels like one. I did something similar for my photography, "jailing" myself to a fixed lens with no zoom. It was truly liberating to lock myself in. Yes, I realize the oxymoron there. But I could concentrate on making the best of my skills rather than falling into a gear swamp.

soylentcola 11y ago

That's how it's always come across to me. I buy Nexus or Nexus-like devices (the 2014 Moto X being an example of the latter) and just like iPhones, they work just fine for me out of the box. In general, even the devices I don't personally like with OEM skins and addons work just as well out of the box for typical uses like web, email, phone, calendar, nav, and your average smattering of entertainment and communication apps. In that regard, there's not a lot of difference and both platforms succeed well. It's more about how well they "fail". When I use my iPad and it doesn't do something I want or behave in a way I prefer, my options are often similar tweaking and tinkering. Many times, I would need to jailbreak the thing in order to install an unsigned app not approved by Apple to get it to do what I want. On my Android devices, it's usually a lot simpler. iOS has improved a bit in terms of customization (being able to "open with" various apps instead of the factory defaults, third party keyboard layouts, and stuff like that) but that was always the case on Android. As these platforms have matured, they've both got their "success states" pretty solid so now it's down to how well they "fail" and how easy it is to get my device to do what I need without jaibreaking or otherwise taking advantage of security holes to gain access to certain settings or capabilities.

pmarreck 11y ago

> Switched to Android from iOS (with reasons) > Switched to iOS from Android (with reasons) > Counterargument is: But you didn't try this specific Android device. Sort of "moving the goalposts," is it not?