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How quitting my corporate job for my startup dream f*cked my life up
- exelius 11y agoThere's an oversupply of ex-consultants and they all fancy themselves as the next Jeff Bezos (Bezos is ex-McKinsey and his company operates like it). As a current consultant who sees so many of his co-workers with this dream, I feel many of them are being unrealistic about their prospects. It's not like an ex-McKinsey consultant is really unique in VC pitches anymore. But many end up bailing because these companies have an "up or out" culture (meaning you either get promoted or fired every 3 years -- with about 80% at each level getting the boot) that makes it very stressful. So it's pretty easy to say "Yeah, fuck this place, I'm gonna go be a startup founder!" when you're 90% sure you're getting fired next year. And being fired from McKinsey/Bain/BCG doesn't mean you're bad, it just means you're not a good fit for the role above you (i.e. if you're moving up from being an engagement manager, you're gonna get laid off if you're not a natural salesperson). Thing is, being a startup founder is basically the same thing as working for McKinsey/Bain/BCG. It's still "up or out" with each round of funding, and the chances of success at each step are honestly smaller. You also don't have the firm's built-in network and research tools to help you be successful. I don't even think the average payoffs are better in the startup world. I mean sure, if you can build your company into a unicorn and keep the momentum through an exit you will come out ahead. What are the chances of that, 0.0001%? A better exit from McKinsey/Bain/BCG IMO would be to shack up with a "second-tier" consulting firm like Deloitte, PwC, Accenture, etc. Depending where you come in, you can pretty easily make partner within 4 or 5 years (anyone coming from the world of top-tier consulting is already used to the crazy workload required for this). Get to that point and you're pulling in $250k-$1M a year without much risk at all for as long as you want to keep doing it. And a generous pension (laugh if you want, but large LLPs are one of the few places where pensions make sense) to retire on whenever you decide you don't want to do it. And then, if you still have the urge to run a startup, you're in a position where you'll have the knowledge, connections and financial security to go run a startup as the CEO who comes in and runs the show after the founders realize their limitations. IMO this is a better path because 1) any company hiring an expensive outside CEO is likely on an upward trajectory overall 2) VC funded startups are getting more risky, not less, so let the founders take that risk and 3) you can assess the cultural / product / market fit before you take the job.
- jaredmck 11y agoYou keep saying Bezos used to work at McKinsey, but I don't see that info anywhere else? He used to work at the trading firm D.E. Shaw, and Amazon seems to operate in a very un-McKinsey way in many ways (i.e. they don't use PowerPoint), so this is confusing...
- zekevermillion 11y agoYes, it does not take all that much courage to quit a miserable consulting or finance job. I should know! My advice to people in this situation, as I was myself ~6 years ago, is not to quit with the intention of "doing a startup". Just admit that you are quitting to go mess around for a couple years. Then try to enjoy that, and maybe something will come of it.
- andremendes 11y agoMy read of this article could be summarized as: Want fanciness without the stress? Don't go for corporate world nor start a startup.
- xhrpost 11y agoI'm not quite sure what to make of this article. Especially the end quote where he is sort of suggesting going this "dangerous" route, but sort of not. > No matter how much your journey f*cks up your life or how difficult it will be, enjoy the ride and keep following your passion. As Tony Gaskin puts it perfectly: “If you don’t build your dream, someone will hire you to help build theirs.”
- bottled_poe 11y agoThis appears to be a thinly veiled marketing exercise.
- scient 11y agoSo a guy working as a highly paid consultant that does not have time to spend any of his money runs out of it in less than a year... And his top "warning" for the whole thing is social pressure. Is this a joke?
- elcapitan 11y agoI would imagine that once you're into a certain lifestyle (i.e. not leading a student life anymore) you have very high monthly expenses and lifestyle choices that are not that easy to get rid off.
- sigzero 11y agoYeah but if you go the startup route and you don't take that into consideration, you are probably going to fail. You have to sacrifice.
- deong 11y agoYou'd think, "if your salary goes from $250k to $20k, start living like you make $20k" wouldn't really need to be communicated out like some sort of secret.
- huac 11y agoI promise you, they don't teach you that in business school "There's 2 things they don't teach you at Harvard. How to handle failure, and how to handle a shotgun. I'm about to do both" - the dude from the Simpsons movie
- Loque 11y agoThe title is incredibly annoying. Leaving your corporate job for your dream has a very high chance of fucking up your life for a myriad of very obvious reasons. Not only that, but the idea that following your dream by creating a startup would provide you with more free-time is beyond basic logic.
- mark_l_watson 11y agoThat is a good article but it was on HN a few years ago. A mistake I think people make is optimizing their lives for income rather than experiences and contentment. I have thoroughly enjoyed my career but I have kept my working hours to under an average of 25 hours a week for the last 30 years (not counting time writing, which is more of a simple pleasure in life than consulting).
- matwood 11y agoExperiences can also cost money. Traveling can be done less expensively, but is not cheap. Being out in a boat out on the water every weekend is not cheap, but is an experience I live for. So when optimizing you have to find a balance where you can make enough money to enjoy the experiences you want to enjoy.
- thatfrenchguy 11y agoTravel is cheap if you're not doing it the five star hotel way :-)
- matwood 11y agoPlane tickets are often 1-2k per person. Even cheap travel is expensive for most people. I never do the 5 star hotel way and it is still not cheap.
- kaybe 11y agoTravel costs time or money. I can travel for about the same price as staying at home, basically. But then I occasionally like hitchhiking and couchsurfing, and cooking with strangers in hostels, and hiking with a tent (areas in Europe allow you one night's stay on unoccupied land if you don't bother anyone).. takes a lot longer than the faster ways, but it's basically free. I only spend money on food and gifts to hosts. (It is also a priviledge of youth and health, I admit, to be able to take the bike to the next country/city/whatever.)
- Nr7 11y agoIf you have no free time and feel overworked in your current job then surely starting a start up won't fix that.
- basseq 11y agoMaybe it's consulting outside the U.S. (guy was a Senior Associate at Bain for 1 year), but the consulting intro doesn't ring true. Both personal experience and an extensive network into MBB: I don't know anyone at that (junior) level who a) is flying trans-Atlantic on a weekly basis (to the U.S. no less), b) doesn't know where they're going until last minute, and c) changes projects every week. It doesn't happen. This isn't House of Lies. Guy appears to be a professional blogger now, so this is very much a grain-of-salt perspective.
- exelius 11y agoHe's not necessarily lying - I have several MBB friends (engagement manager level) who have been flying trans-Atlantic nearly weekly from the US for the better part of the last 3 years. Hell, I still fly coast to coast on a regular basis myself. MBB-level consulting has changed a lot in the last few years. Clients are no longer willing to pay their rates for full projects, so a lot of their projects are now 2-3 week due diligence projects to validate the output that some internal team or a Big 4 accounting firm's consulting division put together. One friend of mine has worked at McKinsey for 4 years and has yet to work on a project longer than 6 weeks the entire time (most of her projects are 2-4 weeks). Even then, it's basically just the "MBB tax" you have to pay to whatever consulting company your board of directors used to work at. These projects could probably be done remotely, but those firms calling card is to massively over-deliver every project they get in order to justify their rates. All of this leads to a situation where projects are shorter, less valuable, and happen with less lead time than they used to. The pipelines have been getting shallower every year - look at how MBB are all trying to branch out into operations consulting with mixed results. One thing to keep in mind is that while MBB tend to exude this aura of invincibility, they're actually struggling right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see some consolidation happen in this space soon.
- huac 11y agoI thought the point of having SF, LA, NYC offices was to cut down on travel time, to the benefit of both the consultants and the client.
- dineshp2 11y agoIt's important to understand what your expectations from a startup founder life are. There are very few resources that explain what to expect and that it's really just hard work on problems that you care about. The way the media glorifies the startup founder life is very misleading to budding founders. The opening lecture in Sam's startup class was an eye opener in many ways and put into perspective what being a startup founder really means(especially the part that Dustin Moskovitz talks about). http://startupclass.samaltman.com http://startupclass.samaltman.com
- jimothyhalpert7 11y agoI remember reading this a while ago and feeling completely duped. The author's definition of a 'fcked up life' is what I would love my life to be, assuming I would have an idea to devote myself too, and would be in an environment where that wouldn't seem strange. What is fcked up it the situation when you're doing it backwards: instead of jumping into a business, and dealing with those problems, you start believing that the normality of your life is what's holding you down, so you artificially create those problems, without having a decent reason for doing so...
- jimothyhalpert7 11y agoI wonder if all the upvotes are due the content, or my accidental use of italic formatting... In case of the former, would anyone care to elaborate? Do you solely agree with the message, or do you find yourself in a similar situation as described?
- jonah 11y agoEverything looks more _important_ with formatting. Maybe you should become a consultant. ;-)
- jimothyhalpert7 11y agoI'm way ahead of you :)
- miloshadzic 11y agoPosts like these are the new infomercial.
- thatfrenchguy 11y ago"One day, I even found myself asking my girlfriend for a few cents because I had no money to buy bottled water" In general, when you have no money, tap water is better than bankruptcy.
- bphogan 11y agoCame here to say the same thing. This whole article could be summarized as "I was pampered growing up. I was pampered through school. I was so pampered I had no concept of what things actually cost because everything was paid for me." It's quite a shock when you start noticing that $3 bottles of water start adding up.
- seanmcdirmid 11y agoUnless you are in a country without potable water (like China where a bottle of water really is just 24 cents), then by all means, that bottle of water is a good investment.
- jrowley 11y agoOr if you live in Flint, Michigan or any other number of places in the US that don't have potable water.
- EGreg 11y agoI highly doubt the poster lives in Flint.
- PakG1 11y agoYou could live like locals and just boil the water. It doesn't get rid of everything in there, but it's better than drinking straight from the tap. I run mine through a Brita filter first. I know that the Brita doesn't actually do much, but it tastes much better at least.
- brianwawok 11y ago
- pink_dinner 11y ago"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week." This statement, but itself, doesn't really give you the entire picture. I've had my own company for the last 10 years. Running a company is more about controlling my own destiny, than the amount of hours I'm working. I can choose if I want to work 80 hours a week or 20...and I don't have a boss or a manager leading me on a path I know will be a failure.
- ececconi 11y agoI've been working at a consulting firm for almost six years. Tons of people quit to make their own startups or go into another industry. For me, I'm just thinking of taking a six month leave next year so I can live in Europe, not work unless I want to, and pursue the arts. I'm thinking of doing a lot of traveling, photography, and writing. I think a lot of the angst people have about corporate jobs is that people think about what they are missing out on. I think it's really important to not lose sight of what you enjoy, even if you only have a few hours a week to enjoy it.
- plant42 11y agoDefinitely agree. If you're thinking that you're missing out on life then make the change, go down a tangential path. Do not go through life bitching & whining that you didn't make the most of an opportunity. Take the sabbatical and go to Europe for 6 months. If it turns out to not be what you expected, so what, you've learned something and grown.
- ececconi 11y agoThe only real expectation that I have is that I'll come out of it with tons of experiences. Who knows what'll happen or not happen.
- S_A_P 11y agoI work as an independent consultant as my "startup". I had been consulting for about 5 years for other people and saw less and less value in letting the consulting company take 65% of the money they charge for me. I made a good salary, but I never took health benefits, though I did use 401k matching. Anyway, it took a while, but I made the correct contacts and was able to sign MSAs with the 2 major software vendors I do work for, and now can land my own work. I now bill for about 85% of what the other companies charged for me, and even after paying both sides of the employment taxes I have come out way ahead. I found an 18 month project that was planned so that nobody would work > 40 hours a week and have a 7-4 work schedule. There is a possibility of travel, but I will increase my rate for those gigs to make up for the "hardship". I dont know that I could really call my business a startup, but I do think that if you are working your ass off as a consultant and have a legitimate skill set and the right contacts, you can make your life better. It sounds like this guy just traded one sweatshop for another of his own making.
- avs733 11y agoI took a fairly similar path for a couple years and honestly felt it was pretty much the best of all worlds (corporate/consulting/startup). The only hiccup was growth...I found myself taking on and wanting to do more and it slowly became more than I could handle myself or through the part time online services available at this point in time. People under appreciate their value as an independent consultant so often I am really surprised.
- alexc05 11y agoSo he wrote this from a beach in Thailand while sipping a fancy drink? He no longer works at a job he hates. He went on a two year journey attempting to self actualize - but discovered his actual self is a bit of a failure?* How has his life been fucked up? What's the word (some sort of portmanteau of entrepreneur & porn) which we use to describe this Tim Ferriss style trash? *that last point is a bit harsh, trying to be sarcastic/funny there, not mean
- stepvhen 11y agoEntrepornography?
- btbuildem 11y agoHow is this on he front page?
- kelukelugames 11y agoCan we change the sensationalist f*cked up title?
- gaur 11y agoI am suspicious of work/life advice from people whose ultimate life goals involve tropical vacations and alcohol.
- peterwwillis 11y agoI don't see what your ultimate life goals - or even having any - has to do with work/life advice. If you spend half your time working, and half your time on a tropical beach with a margarita, how is that a bad thing?
- Spooky23 11y agoIt's a signal of an immature/not quite baked thought process. Try spending a month on the beach sometime. It gets old.
- peterwwillis 11y agoI grew up in Florida and Mexico, so i'm aware that too much of the same thing gets old - which is why I spend up to a week on a beach at a time, and work the rest of the time in a big city. The dichotomy is blissful. But even the idea that it can get old is very dependent on the person - some people's life goals are to surf, eat ceviche, and drink cerveza while fishing with friends. They may not get sick of it, while you or I might. Their work/life balance might be giving diving lessons in the spring in Trinidad and working a WWOOF off-season, interspersed with consulting work (a friend of mine). The dude in the article likes beaches and tropical drinks. As long as they can identify how to achieve a healthy balance, doesn't matter what it is.
- emidln 11y agoI try to spend good portions of each day several months a year on various beaches in Maui. I can't think of many things I'd prefer than playing and swimming with my family at the beach. When I was single, a beach with a nice bar or bars nearby would have been a paradise.
- Kiro 11y ago> there will be so many hidden costs, accountant fees, lawyer needs I don't understand this. I do my own accounting and have never spent a single dime on a lawyer. It feels like I'm doing something illegal though because people keep saying this is such a huge cost.
- gearhart 11y agoPersonal experience from having been through both sides: People who come from corporate backgrounds tend to think having accountants and lawyers is necessary even when it's a one man company because they're used to being specialists, and accountancy / legal isn't what they do. People who come from lean startup backgrounds tend to think they can get by on their own work and the advice they can get over a pint with a lawyer forever because they're used to being generalists. Doing things that they have no expertise in is what they do every day. The reality tends to be somewhere in the middle. Doing your own accounts when it's just you is ~as hard as getting someone else to do it. Doing your own accounts when you're a team of 20 is enough of a time sink to drag down your overall productivity significantly. If you do go down the "professionals" route though, costs mount quickly.
- tarsinge 11y agoThis can't be serious, I know it's from 2014 but the author seriously showing of his egotists needs with a facebook photo (725 likes whoo) despite talking about not to care about social pressure is beyond understanding. And living from "inspirational" blog posts to wannabe entrepreneurs (= selling shovels during the gold rush) in a tourist resort? Be sure which dream you are following before quitting your boring corporate job, it's usually more meaningful than what you'll be end up doing, from what I'm seeing in this kind of posts. Edit: sorry for the tone, I'm a bit emotive because I fell in this trap too, and now that I see through the marketing stuff I don't understand why this kind of post continue to be upvoted.
- ryanmickle 11y agoSo much life is about the intersection of preparation and timing. What Ali fails to mention is how his startup prepared him and supplied perspective for the lifestyle approach he is now taking. You rarely go from corporate job to traversing beaches with wi-fi access.
- mark-r 11y agoReminds me of something I once heard: Starting your own business is great, you can work half days! And you get to decide which twelve hours that will be! Sounds like he would have considered himself lucky to keep it to twelve hours.
- dsugarman 11y agoit was a good read, but a better title would have been, "how quitting my dreadful corporate job for my startup dream lead me to a happy life of self-employed consulting."
- jessegreathouse 11y agoWhat I learned from this: If you have to call your mommy when you quit your job, you're not ready to start your own business. Also, 2 years after the call to mommy is not quite mature enough to start doling out advice.
- greggarious 11y agoSo there are literally zero consulting companies that will pay a fair wage for 40 hours work? Or is it just that the fancy ones like McKinsey all want to run you ragged?