3 ms·

I've never even heard of this, and I definitely pay attention to the news. This is basically WWIII in terms of overall combined casualties and... I'm just speec

by api 11y ago

I've never even heard of this, and I definitely pay attention to the news. This is basically WWIII in terms of overall combined casualties and... I'm just speechless... I have never even heard of it. Absolutely incredible.

100timesthis 11y ago
I'm not saying that it isn't a tragedy but it's an order of magnitude less than WWII[1], or am I missing something? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
- boxy310 11y ago
  It's the largest single armed conflict since World War II, and yet it has less visibility than the Korean War (2,859,574 casualties [1]), Vietnam War (1,450,000 casualties [2]), or the Iraq War (654,965 casualties [3]). It's even worse known that the deaths through famines induced during the Cultural Revolution in China (400,000, rough estimate [4]). [1] http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/world/asia/korean-war-fast-facts/ http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/world/asia/korean-war-fast-fac... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties [3] http://web.mit.edu/CIS/pdf/Human_Cost_of_War.pdf http://web.mit.edu/CIS/pdf/Human_Cost_of_War.pdf [4] https://books.google.com/books?id=YpV7vbvclfgC&pg=PA354#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=YpV7vbvclfgC&pg=PA354#v=on...
  - vacri 11y ago
    It has less visibility than those because there were no western nations (and hence western media) involved with boots on the ground. Or planes in the air, for that matter. The other thing is that the bulk of deaths were knock-on deaths from things like famine and disease rather than military violence. However, it is still a good indication of just how little attention we pay to Africa here in the west, that people in general don't even know that it existed.
    - tim333 11y ago
      Also when British Empire and similar were in Africa stopping the wars and the like it was considered racist so now the done thing is to leave the Africans to it.
      - vacri 11y ago
        'stopping the wars' wasn't considered the racist part. 'taking all their stuff and not giving much back' was. And for the Congo in particular, their experience under Belgian (well, Leopold II) rule was so horrific that other colonial powers exerted pressure on Leopold to give it up. The death toll in the Congo at that time was about the same as for the recent Second Congo War (plus the war's aftermath). Given the population of the day, it's estimated that the Belgian rule in the Congo halved the population, whereas the recent war 'only' claimed a bit less than 10%. The Belgian rule also left a lot of people maimed without hands, since there were bounties on hands, and the payors weren't too fussy about where they came from. Leopold II is one of history's lesser-known evil kingpins. After Leopold was forced to hand it over for management elsewhere, it became a more regular colonial story of exploitation for little in return. In short, for Congo in particular, the modern day is better than it's experience in colonial times, even with the recent war.
Umn44 11y ago
>I've never even heard of this, Then you should read up on history. Our brains are much worse at reality and thinking than thought. Science on reasoning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ Overthrowing other peoples governments http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-people... Wikileaks on TTIP/TPP/ETC https://youtu.be/ABDiHspTJww?t=17 https://youtu.be/ABDiHspTJww?t=17 Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349 Energy subsidies https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2015/NEW070215A.htm https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2015/NEW07021... Intereference in other states when the rich/corporations dont get their way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mxp_wgFWQo&feature=youtu.be&list=PLKR2GeygdHomOZeVKx3P0fqH58T3VghOj&t=724 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mxp_wgFWQo&feature=youtu.be... From war is a racket: "I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil intersts in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested."[p. 10] "War is a racket. ...It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives." [p. 23] "The general public shoulders the bill [for war]. This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations." [p. 24] General Butler is especially trenchant when he looks at post-war casualties. He writes with great emotion about the thousands of tramautized soldiers, many of who lose their minds and are penned like animals until they die, and he notes that in his time, returning veterans are three times more likely to die prematurely than those who stayed home. http://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Antiwar-Americas-Decorated/dp/0922915865/ http://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Antiwar-Americas-Decorated/... Blum: http://williamblum.org/aer/read/137 http://williamblum.org/aer/read/137 US distribution of wealth https://imgur.com/a/FShfb https://imgur.com/a/FShfb http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html The Centre for Investigative Journalism http://www.tcij.org/ http://www.tcij.org/ Some history on US imperialism by us corporations. https://kurukshetra1.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/a-brief-history-of-imperialism-and-state-violence-in-colombia/ https://kurukshetra1.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/a-brief-histor... The real news http://www.therealnews.com http://www.therealnews.com Manufacturing consent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM https://vimeo.com/39566117 https://vimeo.com/39566117
garysieling 11y ago
If you're interested in history, "The State of Africa" is a really readable history of African countries from post-WWII to the present(or close). From that book I found out about a lot of events I'd never heard about, including a more detailed discussion of what this article talks about.
- ratnakar007 11y ago
  Also, another interesting book about Congo and King Leopold - The Belgium king is "King Leopold's Ghosts". One of the best book on history of Congo.
  - garysieling 11y ago
    Yes, that is an excellent book

by api 11y ago

100timesthis 11y ago

I'm not saying that it isn't a tragedy but it's an order of magnitude less than WWII[1], or am I missing something? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II

boxy310 11y ago
It's the largest single armed conflict since World War II, and yet it has less visibility than the Korean War (2,859,574 casualties [1]), Vietnam War (1,450,000 casualties [2]), or the Iraq War (654,965 casualties [3]). It's even worse known that the deaths through famines induced during the Cultural Revolution in China (400,000, rough estimate [4]). [1] http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/world/asia/korean-war-fast-facts/ http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/world/asia/korean-war-fast-fac... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties [3] http://web.mit.edu/CIS/pdf/Human_Cost_of_War.pdf http://web.mit.edu/CIS/pdf/Human_Cost_of_War.pdf [4] https://books.google.com/books?id=YpV7vbvclfgC&pg=PA354#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=YpV7vbvclfgC&pg=PA354#v=on...
- vacri 11y ago
  It has less visibility than those because there were no western nations (and hence western media) involved with boots on the ground. Or planes in the air, for that matter. The other thing is that the bulk of deaths were knock-on deaths from things like famine and disease rather than military violence. However, it is still a good indication of just how little attention we pay to Africa here in the west, that people in general don't even know that it existed.
  - tim333 11y ago
    Also when British Empire and similar were in Africa stopping the wars and the like it was considered racist so now the done thing is to leave the Africans to it.
    - vacri 11y ago
      'stopping the wars' wasn't considered the racist part. 'taking all their stuff and not giving much back' was. And for the Congo in particular, their experience under Belgian (well, Leopold II) rule was so horrific that other colonial powers exerted pressure on Leopold to give it up. The death toll in the Congo at that time was about the same as for the recent Second Congo War (plus the war's aftermath). Given the population of the day, it's estimated that the Belgian rule in the Congo halved the population, whereas the recent war 'only' claimed a bit less than 10%. The Belgian rule also left a lot of people maimed without hands, since there were bounties on hands, and the payors weren't too fussy about where they came from. Leopold II is one of history's lesser-known evil kingpins. After Leopold was forced to hand it over for management elsewhere, it became a more regular colonial story of exploitation for little in return. In short, for Congo in particular, the modern day is better than it's experience in colonial times, even with the recent war.

Umn44 11y ago

>I've never even heard of this, Then you should read up on history. Our brains are much worse at reality and thinking than thought. Science on reasoning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ Overthrowing other peoples governments http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-people... Wikileaks on TTIP/TPP/ETC https://youtu.be/ABDiHspTJww?t=17 https://youtu.be/ABDiHspTJww?t=17 Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349 Energy subsidies https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2015/NEW070215A.htm https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2015/NEW07021... Intereference in other states when the rich/corporations dont get their way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mxp_wgFWQo&feature=youtu.be&list=PLKR2GeygdHomOZeVKx3P0fqH58T3VghOj&t=724 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mxp_wgFWQo&feature=youtu.be... From war is a racket: "I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil intersts in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested."[p. 10] "War is a racket. ...It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives." [p. 23] "The general public shoulders the bill [for war]. This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations." [p. 24] General Butler is especially trenchant when he looks at post-war casualties. He writes with great emotion about the thousands of tramautized soldiers, many of who lose their minds and are penned like animals until they die, and he notes that in his time, returning veterans are three times more likely to die prematurely than those who stayed home. http://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Antiwar-Americas-Decorated/dp/0922915865/ http://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Antiwar-Americas-Decorated/... Blum: http://williamblum.org/aer/read/137 http://williamblum.org/aer/read/137 US distribution of wealth https://imgur.com/a/FShfb https://imgur.com/a/FShfb http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html The Centre for Investigative Journalism http://www.tcij.org/ http://www.tcij.org/ Some history on US imperialism by us corporations. https://kurukshetra1.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/a-brief-history-of-imperialism-and-state-violence-in-colombia/ https://kurukshetra1.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/a-brief-histor... The real news http://www.therealnews.com http://www.therealnews.com Manufacturing consent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM https://vimeo.com/39566117 https://vimeo.com/39566117

garysieling 11y ago

If you're interested in history, "The State of Africa" is a really readable history of African countries from post-WWII to the present(or close). From that book I found out about a lot of events I'd never heard about, including a more detailed discussion of what this article talks about.

ratnakar007 11y ago
Also, another interesting book about Congo and King Leopold - The Belgium king is "King Leopold's Ghosts". One of the best book on history of Congo.
- garysieling 11y ago
  Yes, that is an excellent book